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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15

    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Sat May 07, 2022 10:13 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:Ready or not, war came along and the Moskva was required to do her duty. Was she in a fit condition to fight? Probably not, and there was plenty of news to show that she was in poor condition and had been passed over for modernisation, but none of that matters.
    This seems to be another sales pitch to sell Western weapons to Middle Eastern and Asian countries. S-300FM, AK-630 and OSA we are told had issues. However, even the Russian Navy has not carried out a through investigation of the systems on board and yet some questionable Twitter handle manages to extract all the details.

    What weapon system will the U.S offer in place of S-300FM? SM-6? Assuming they do, how will the customer figure out that SM-6 too doesn't have the same issues that apparently plagued the S-300FM?



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    Post  Arrow Sat May 07, 2022 11:07 am

    Admiral Makarov in Sevastopol. There was no incident
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15 - Page 9 FSJBQW-XEAA2l-S

    https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1522623171500949505

    Not good.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sat May 07, 2022 11:51 am

    Ispan wrote:
    franco wrote:Donbass Offensive of the Russian Forces—Rybar SitRep, as of 14:00, May 6, 2022

    https://t.me/s/Slavyangrad

    Thanks a lot for posting that news source, I know Slayangrad, but don't follow Twitter, it's good Bazov moved to Telegram

    I copied your report and expanded it and posted the maps, last night entry covered both 5 and 6 May

    https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2022/05/06/parte-de-guerra-06-05-2022/

    YESTERDAY 05 May

    Summary of Readovka: (edited)

    Kharkov: units of the DPR and LPR reservists, as well as the Russian National Guard (Rossgvardiya), left Russkaya Lozovaya and neighboring villages. The semi-empty village of Stary Saltov was occupied by militants of the Kraken special unit of the Azov National Regiment. In Odnorobovka, members of the nationalist battalion "Aidar" do not allow local residents to leave the village. They use people as "human shields" to protect themselves from Russian artillery attacks. The Ukrainian command is trying to take full advantage of the low concentration of allied forces in the area near Kharkov and is actively trying to retake the liberated settlements.

    Izyum: The Ukrainian General Staff deployed 3,000 soldiers and more than 100 heavy weapons units to the aid of the 93rd Brigade, which is half-encircled. Ukrainian troops are trying to cross the Seversky Donets River near the village of Protopovka, but the Russian troops expected such a scenario and retaliated with shelling and massive artillery fire on Ukrainian positions.

    Lugansk - Fierce battles continue in the Popasna, Kremennaya and Torsky area. There are also battles for Liman - Russian troops and units of the People's Militia of the DPR and the LPR are storming the city. Kadyrov reports that the village of Voevodovka between Rubizhne and Severodonetsk. has been taken and that the forest in your area has been cleared of enemy troops. The enemy suffered heavy losses in men and materiel.

    Donetsk: As a result of the morning shelling, 2 civilians were killed in Yasinovataya. The shelling of Yasinovataya does not stop, many houses are damaged. The DPR army liberated the village of Troitske near New York. In Gorlovka, the crimes of the Ukrainian authorities continue — again the shelling of civilians.

    Mariupol - Naval artillery launched a large-scale attack on Azovstal. Ukrainian militants trapped in "Azovstal" offered an exchange of
    civilians for food and medicine. It is necessary to change people for food because salty dog food is not kosher

    Note: this is a sarcasm, for those who do not understand Russian humor, which I personally love even if it is translated. "Kosher" are foods that are lawful to eat according to the Jewish religion, for example, like Muslims, Jews do not eat pork. The author makes fun of the desperate situation of the encircled fighters of the Azov regime, who are running out of supplies, and who are so hungry that they would be able to eat dog food, but they couldn't because religion forbids it, irony because they are Nazis, and they have no religion other than Satanism, and allusion to Zelensky and the mantra that "there are no Nazis in Ukraine because the president is Jewish", which leads to the syllogism that the Azovites are not Nazis, but Jews. It was funny to me.



    TODAY 06 May

    The Offensive of the Russian Allied Forces 14:00 hours

    1-Heavy fighting continues in the Krasny Lyman sector and in the Rubezhnoye-Severodonetsk-Lisichansk triangle.

    Lyman

    2-Progress is slow due to large fires between Lyman and Yampil and near the Yarovaya settlement from the direction of Svyatogorsk.

    3 - Russian forces have reached Seversky Donets in the section from Yampol to Kremennaya. Artillery duels are taking place between the opposing forces. Near Serebryanka, Belgorovka and Privolye, Russian forces are conducting artillery and missile strikes against the position of Ukrainian troops.

    Lisichansk-Severodonetsk

    4-There are unconfirmed reports of exchanges of fire in Serebryanka, Privolye and on the western outskirts of Lisichansk.

    5-The units of the LNR People's Militia advance towards Lisichansk from the south. An important railway junction was taken under control in Svetlichnoye, and fighting continues in Nizhnee and Orekhovo.

    6 - The allied forces of Russia have completed the clearing of the residential areas of Rubezhnoye. The remaining units of the Ukrainian forces have barricaded themselves in the Zarya gunpowder factory.

    7-Russian forces have taken control of the settlement of Voevodovka between Rubezhnoye and Severodonetsk. Clashes are taking place in the eastern neighborhoods of Severodonetsk and in the forests between Voevodovka and the city.

    8-To establish control over Severodonetsk is impossible without first taking Lisichansk, which is located at a higher altitude on the western bank of the Seversky Donets. Lisichansk is a strategic height in relation to Severodonetsk, and Ukrainian forces, unless they are evicted from there, could continue to attack Severodonetsk with impunity.

    9 - In Popasnaya, the Allied forces continue to develop their offensive along the railway path.

    10 - The Troitskoye settlement has also been liberated by the Allied forces, with a continuous development of the offensive towards Niu-York.

    The Counteroffensive of the Ukrainian Forces through the Seversky Donets

    11-Ukrainian forces continue their attempts to cross the Seversky Donets River between Balakleya and Izyum using pontoon bridges and entrench themselves in these positions.

    12-The engineer units of the Ukrainian army were able to build two pontoon bridges in the area of Protopopovka and Zavgorodneye and organize their defense. Several reconnaissance groups of saboteurs of the Ukrainian forces have crossed the river and are trying to establish an outpost on the opposite side. Pontoon bridges were installed under the surface of the water and are hidden from visual observation.

    13-To provide support and distract the attention of the Russian forces, a group of servicemen from the special operations units of the Ukrainian army crossed the Seversky Donets River south of Chepel. They have been given the task of taking control of the Rudnevo settlement. Ukrainian rocket artillery on the outskirts of Chapel is providing fire support for Ukrainian commandos..

    14-Ukrainian forces are using Bayraktar TB2 UAVs/drones based at the Chuguev airfield to provide aerial reconnaissance and guidance.

    15:00 hours

    At the moment, a classic general battle is taking place along the entire length of the Kharkov-Donetsk arch. Ukrainian Forces are trying to counterattack near Kharkov in the direction of the border, we are advancing in the Yampol-Severodonetsk area, we are fighting for Popasna, in the Izyum section on the side, there is fighting for access to the Barvenkovo-Slavyansk highway.

    We are slowly biting the enemy defenses south of Izyum, the enemy brings reserves, shelling with artillery, rocket launchers and Tochka missiles in our rear.

    Russia itself, and even the territory north of it, is located in the zone of effective fire of enemy artillery from cannons and rockets. On the front line, exchanges of artillery attacks are ongoing, and there is rifle fighting in the forests. Our air defense works day and night and the downed Tochka missiles have already become routine. Yesterday, the enemy shelled with Tornado rockets, and anti-aircraft fired several times at their missiles.



    The Southern Offensive of the Russian Forces- 17:00 hours

    1-In Mariupol, Allied forces have taken control of the cone of earth (slag mountains) on the southeastern outskirts of the Azovstal industrial complex. Attacks on the positions of the Azov (neo-Nazi regiment of the Ukrainian National Guard) continue unabated. After demanding to exchange the civilians they hold hostage from human shields for food, the Azov nationalists have been categorized as terrorists.

    2-Russian forces are carrying out constant attacks on Gulyai Pole and Orekhov. These are two of the main fortified strongholds of the Ukrainian forces in this sector. Once the Ukrainian defensive lines at Gulayi Pole are broken, a new offensive in the direction of the northern allied grouping advancing on Slaviansk from the north will be possible.

    3-West of Orekhov, Russian forces have taken the minor settlement of Shcherbaki. Taking control of Orekhov would open the door to an offensive in Zaporozhye (the administrative center of the Zaporozhye region).

    4 - On the border line between Novoukrainka-Ugledar-Sladkoye, Russian forces have equalized the front line.



    Kharkov counteroffensive by Ukrainian Forces 19:00 hours



    1-After the withdrawal of Russian forces from Stary Saltov, the withdrawal of troops from the northeastern outskirts of Kharkov became a matter of time.

    2-After a reconnaissance group of Ukrainian saboteurs blew up the bridge crossing the Murom River, between Russkiye Tishki and Cherkasskiye Tishki, the threat of encirclement in a cauldron became apparent.

    3-The Russian command decided to withdraw the units from Tsirkuny, Cherkasskiye Tishki and Liptsy.

    4-The advance units of the Ukrainian forces entered Liptsy on the morning of May 6, 2022. By that time, there were no Russian troops in the settlement anymore - the units had retreated to the north. At the moment, Russian forces control a buffer zone 7-8 km north of Kharkov.

    5-The Ukrainian forces are conducting a zachistka (clearance operations against civilians). Ukrainian units break into the basements, check the cell phones of local residents and search for agents and informants of the Russian forces.



    About the Kharkov front:

    https://t.me/swodki/89318

    https://t.me/swodki/89318

    ”What is happening in the Kharkiv region? The Armed Forces launched into the counteroffensive. The Russian army was forced to withdraw from several settlements under military pressure. I am telling the logic of military events in the north of the Kharkiv region.
    1. The number of troops in the north of the Kharkov region is small on both sides, because this is the direction in which Russia did not try an offensive all the time after the first week. That is, there was no serious military activity there.
    2. Thus, the Armed Forces of Ukraine were able to easily form a numerical advantage in the north of the Kharkov region and launch an offensive. It wasn't difficult.
    3. This counteroffensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the north of the Kharkiv region has no great military significance.
    4. But this counteroffensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has a great psychological and political significance.
    5. The withdrawal of the Russian army after Kyiv, Sumy, Chernihiv also in the Kharkov region, creates the impression of a gradual transition of the Russian army from victories to defeats.
    6. It greatly increases the morale of the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to fight. And this increases the ferocity of the fighting and makes the victory of the Russian army more expensive.
    7. This creates fear among the population of the regions liberated from the Kiev regime that the Bandera terror will return. And it generates hope among the anti-Russian part of the population that the Bandera regime will return. And this catastrophically reduces Russia's ability to depend on the population in the liberated areas.
    8. This demonstrates the potential weakness of the Russian army and pushes neutral countries such as Turkey, India, KSA, UAE, Brazil to make concessions to the US, Russia and other countries. UU. and the EU to join the sanctions against Russia. And this greatly worsens the situation in the economy.
    9. The captured settlements will be actively used for harsh anti-Russian propaganda in the style of fakes in Bucha.
    10. The shelling of the Belgorod region will be significantly increased.
    11. This can lead to panic in the frontline regions.»

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    Sprut-B
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    Post  Sprut-B Sat May 07, 2022 12:11 pm

    Firebird wrote:
    ucmvulcan wrote:
    Isos wrote:Zelensky started a gofundme campaign.

    Their ministry of finances is an account on an app beging for money lol1 .

    What a looser. No russians working in the donbass and Ukraine is broken.

    Guess his sugar daddies need more money.  Bloody Oligarchs

    LMAO
    'elenksky will set up an Insta-ho account next.
    Making money from Arabs shitting over him in Dubai.
    Instead of Bathouse Barry Obummer, Nuland, Pyatt and the like.

    Wasn't there a video of 'elensky dancing dressed up as a bitch?


    Homoerotic performance by Elensky

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sat May 07, 2022 12:44 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:
    Hole wrote:
    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:
    Regular wrote:Music warning

    RobLee wrote:https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1522609558379765761

    Ukrainian TB2 UCAV footage showing a Russian Tor air defense TLAR on fire after it was struck on Snake Island.
    https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=535698608078539

    It looks like there was only 1 system on the island. How long its radar can be active until it needs to be turned off?

    6-7 hours, from what I read.

    They shot down a big bunch of TB-2s but again, Ukraine practically gets them for free and will keep on grinding until they get some usable footage. Even if it takes five million dollars worth of shot down drones to get some video of a small boat burning. Or in this case, an exhausted Tor unit.

    Ukrainian economic realities do not apply here, the U.S. is paying for it.

    Wrong. The regime in Washington is not paying for it, it is giving loans. That´s why they so eager that "Ukraine" keeps existing after the war, the poor fellows will have to pay everything back, with interest, of course.

    Even if Russia would suddenly cease all military activity in UA  now and withdraw from the entirety of "Ukraine", there is no way Kiev could repay these things, even if given decades.

    The U.S. is paying for its own long-term strategic war against Russia, Ukraine is just a cheap source of expendable manpower for now.


    Well, there is still an office in the finance department that keeps documents abput all the stuff american companies owned in Cuba. Most of the companies are long gone but the regime keeps the docs for blackmailing. The same will happen in country 404 aka Banderastan. From time to time some american official will show up and claim that there is land in the Kherson region that belongs to some american oligarch or that the DPR ows the american taxpayer money for the weapons that were delivered to the Kiev regime.

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat May 07, 2022 12:51 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    Big_Gazza wrote:FFS she was a warship, built to fight Russias enemies, and die if needed to defend the state and her people....

    Only thing she accomplished of all those things you listed was dying (in the most hilarious fashion)

    Hopefully wreck will get blown out of existence with depth charges as soon as circumstances allow it



    Big_Gazza wrote:...She will be remembered with great honour...

    Dude, I honestly can't tell if you are actually serious or if you are just rubbing it in even harder

    She will be remembered as a humiliation on par with Second Pacific Squadron and a memetic sequel to infamous battleship Kamchatka

    Battle of Tsushima was a century long global naval joke, sinking of Moskva will be the same for the century that will follow


    Are you even remotely aware of how much this sort of venomous BS only succeeds in making you look small?

    Moskva fought, and she died. She defended the Motherland and deserves respect accordingly, even if she never got the chance to face off against a USN CBG and unleash a full salvo of Bazalts/Vulcan at the enemy. You are clearly someone who despises the Murkan - NATOista hegemon as much as we do, yet you insist on shitting in the open wounds of those who resist them? Suspect

    No wonder Serbia failed to defend Kosovo...

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 07, 2022 12:51 pm

    Well there is small thing of huge military and financial support Ukraine has from EU, US and NATO, we are talking about tens of billions dollars...plus they do have big industrial base on their own right on top of it.

    Without air control financial support means nothing... the west paying Ukraines bills wont stop the Russian artillery wiping out lines and lines of Orc conscripts.

    Without air control shipments of weapons... even hidden within shipments of food can be taken out easily enough.

    Those things cannot make the Ukraine win... they will extend the period they will continue to lose their young men and their not so young men... and likely soon their women...

    They have already lost the war. Its just a short matter of time for the bulk of the military to be completely surrounded and destroyed north of Donetsk.

    Western support is just killing more Ukrainians.

    Perhaps that is exactly what Ukrainians are counting on, after all those two brotherly nations know each other quite well.

    A brother that wants you and the rest of the family dead so he can inherit the family home, is not someone you can save or need to spare... expecially if he is getting his kids... your nieces and nephews killed trying to kill everyone in the rest of the family.

    Do you even realize that not even a fraction (if any) will end up as actual "military support" for the Ukrs?!

    Swiss accounts and the weapons in the Middle East.

    Will be interesting to see the first western airliner brought down by a stinger... Russia of course will immediately get the blame... there was a time when ATGMs and MANPADS were very strictly controled to prevent them getting into the wrong hands as they were so dangerous... what has changed I wonder?

    The precision of the iskander is questionnable... iranian missiles are way more precise frankly.

    Wow you are amazing... how do you know what the aim point of that missile from video supplied by the drone sent to record the attack?

    Lol. They missed hahaha. US mighty tech.

    I remember a CNN report in the 1980s showing Muj launching what the CNN reporter called artillery at the Russians (actually Afghan forces with a T-62 protecting a small base) He missed by about 30m to one side. It then switched to the Muj having another go and the Artilery turns out to be Milan ATGM launcher and he misses again... even the best technology can be rendered useless when used by someone who does not know what they are doing.

    Still looks more sophisticated than Orlan series.

    Didn't really help it much, but it sure made a bigger profit for that American company that made it.

    I wonder why we are not getting any FOV videos from Ukraine, they love "leaking" videos for their propaganda.

    Takes time to fake the video and make it look like a kill...

    I personally think the cheaper(shittier) the drone in a functional form - the better. They are expendable and should be used as such. Forcing Ukrainians to use Martel/Stinger/Strela/Igla to shoot down a drone is a win. I personally think that Switchblades are over sophisticated for a grenade role.

    Which makes the American drone rubbish because it appears more complex and will almost certainly be more expensive, and it appears ineffective too.

    Most Slavs that I've come across in the West are from Russia, Poland and Ukraine and the vast majority of them including Ukrainians were highly intellectual.

    How is it that western countries got such intelligent Ukrainian people to fight a useless war against Russia that Ukraine never had any chance of winning will remain a mystery to me.

    You answered your own question.... the intelligent are exported and the ignorant easy to manipulate remain at home to be moulded into Russia hating nazis... In many ways what the west did in the Ukraine and Georgia and Finland and Sweden and other countries it wants to lure into its US MIC customer trap, was what hitler did to the German people... except instead of blaming Jews for everything wrong with Germany and Europe they blamed Putin and Russia... and they seem to have lapped it all up.

    At the very least Ukrainian should have asked if Russia is indeed a danger to the West (as stated by western governments) why didn't the west get involved in this conflict directly instead of forcing Ukrainians to become cannon fodder.

    Lack of independent thinking... makes them easy to train and use... tested and approved in the west...

    In the future, two TorM2 System now always means on one point to make it really expensive.

    They should have a minimum of four vehicles per battery policy and also have other anti UAV weapons that can support, like vehicles with airburst 30mm cannon shells with the new remote detonation system...

    Unfortunately tho he didnt link the VK page where the report were supposedly posted

    Perhaps because he doctored it and wanted to hide that fact?

    Yes, caution always applies.

    But it is obvious that Russia routinely overestimates the usefulness of "forces in being" as a deterrance. UA doesn't give a damn, and on occasion this gung ho zeal of theirs calls the bluff.

    And this would fit into that pattern.

    You say that without even knowing what happened.... we don't even know if the ship was alone or not.

    The story on moskva makes sense and I have seen these commanders order units without functioning equipment

    Doesn't matter if it makes sense... only an idiot would try to use a lie that is obviously not sensible.

    That does not make it true.

    Wrong. The regime in Washington is not paying for it, it is giving loans. That´s why they so eager that "Ukraine" keeps existing after the war, the poor fellows will have to pay everything back, with interest, of course.

    They should declare themselves bankrupt and absolve themselves from all debt.

    Kinda reminds me with story of loss of our submarine Nanggala. The ship was in poor condition apparently, underwater communication system not functioning and basic safety apparently violated (e.g not bringing Oxygen candle) and the ship apparently have electrical problem which remain unsolved. Our admirals blamed "natural factor" for the loss. Disgusting.

    It happens though... like a Polish plane with officials on board forced to land against the orders of ground control because of weather conditions and everyone dies....

    Russia has nobody but itself to blame for Moskva

    All this talk about USA or UAVs or E3s or whatever is just ''dog ate my homework'' level excuse

    Are you going to wait for that noose to finally strangle the accused before you hear the full story...

    5—Ukrainian forces are conducting a zachistka (mop-up operations against civilians). Ukrainian units are breaking into basements, checking the cellphones of local residents, and are searching for agents and informers of the Russian forces.

    So Ukrainian military continue to kill Ukrainian civilians... nothing new there.

    Perhaps it's a bad idea to mass several dozens or hundred of tanks like at Kursk and try to breakthrough with them. It only gives more targets to the antitank missiles, and Griffith reminded me that the concept failed in the Yom Kippur war in 1973. Book was written in 1981, so the lesson was very fresh.

    Well the problem is also an advantage... having large numbers of heavy calibre guns pointed at the enemy presents serious fire power... if you could link all those vehicles together and combine the visibility of the enemy from each tank together you could get a very detailed view of the enemy firing positions... if you could then select targets to be engaged and allocate guns from all the tanks in the formation and use them to fire on targets as they appear, so with 100 tanks you have 100 full calibre tank guns and with auto loaders lets say you have one shot every 6 seconds per gun, that would mean with coordination you would have 100 x 8-10 shots per minute... that is 800 to 1000 potential targets you could fire on... full calibre tank rounds... that is very serious fire power... drones could be used to further improve visibility of the enemy position from different angles... it would be interesting... with modern thermal sights it should be easier to spot enemy troops out to 3-4km which makes many ATGM a bit vulnerable... especially with their slower missiles.

    Automated EO systems that detect muzzle flashes and missiles in flight and rockets would be very valuable too.

    I don't understand anything, unless our guys have to kill hundreds of zombies (I propose to call ukrops that) for every advance they make, or as I fear, the number of troops is too small for the tasks set.

    You are missing the point... the job is to kill nazis and orcs or make them surrender.... you don't need to wander all over the battlefield to do that... in fact most of the time stopping and staying still or a shallow withdrawal to then hit the advacing Orc forces with air power and artillery is actually the safest and most efficient way to grind up a large force.

    Shooting lots of Ukrainians with rifle and machine gun fire is going to damage a lot of these Russian soldiers even knowing a lot are nazis that is not the case for all of them... it is better to do so with artillery and air power, and just hope they realise how hopeless it all is and surrender.

    Seeing as how you are telling us about Ukrainian victories, I am assuming Russia doesn't have that many troops in or they wouldn't be losing positions in Kharkov.

    When a force withdraws and the enemy moves forward to occupy the ground they held is that really a victory?

    I wonder why we don't see any use of Russian suicide drones.

    Anti armour missiles probably do a better job most of the time.

    What's the chance that Russians will destroy Polish, British, or American troops if they enter western Ukraine?

    What is the chance they will know what their nationality is when they strike?

    Big group of soldiers and weapons and armoured vehicles cannot be ignored and entering a war zone would have to be assumed to be more military support for Kiev and therefore a legitimate target...

    Also why are Russians not destroying any Ukrainian units on the offensive in Kharkov? Why can't they be obliterated by aircraft, helicopters and artillery? Why do the Russians even care about being surrounded if the Ukrainians are poorly equipped and can't maneuver?

    Over extended support lines are at risk... and if there is no value in creating that risk removing it by withdrawing makes sense.

    Looks like the Russians no longer have much concern about the post-liberation value of the Azovstahl plant

    Part of the demilitarisation of the region I suspect... I think the west was banking on them not wanting to destroy it for commercial reasons but Russia makes its own steel.

    What honour does the moskva deserve?

    It was performing a mission in a conflict despite not being 100% battle ready.... what honour do Serb Pilots climbing into MiG-29s whose radars were not working because they were not properly maintained to fight HATO, who outnumbered them by a wide margin and enjoyed superior situational awareness?

    Its not heroic to send a non-combat ready warship to combat. Its treasonous.

    It was performing its duty... we still don't know what happened exactly and it seems the information posted by a Kiev mouthpiece could easily be doctored... lack of an original official source makes me doubt its content.

    If it's true that she was converted to navigational hazzard by bunch of apes with couple of Kh-35 knockoffs and a Turkish RC plane then only smart thing to do with other two is to quickly and quietly retire, scrap them and try to forget that the entire class ever existed

    Only hope for avoiding eternal humiliation is that it turns out that she was lost to a sea mine

    Slimmest of chances for that but who knows...

    I think it is an excellent lesson about trying to save money and end up costing more than you save... they could have spent money replacing OSA and the AK-630s with modern CIWS that would have protected the ship easily from any western missile attack and instead they saved a small amount of money and lost the whole ship.

    A bit like saving a little bit of money making small aircraft carriers and then spending a lot more money developing VSTOL fighters to operate from these small carriers only to find a bigger carrier with more conventional fighters would not have been that much more expensive and would have been vastly more effective.

    Dude, I honestly can't tell if you are actually serious or if you are just rubbing it in even harder

    She will be remembered as a humiliation on par with Second Pacific Squadron and a memetic sequel to infamous battleship Kamchatka

    Battle of Tsushima was a century long global naval joke, sinking of Moskva will be the same for the century that will follow

    Yeah, because no ship has ever sunk before... they are not called Anti Ship missiles for no reason... even assuming any were involved in the first place.

    Imagine sending a not even functional warship into combat.....Genius's of the black sea fleet

    Imagine sending up fighter planes with non functioning radar... against a super power and its lynch mob lackeys.

    Another TB2. Not much left.

    The amusing thing is that TB2 would be vastly more effective against a western power because of their much weaker air defence capacity... what fighter would they have to fly around 24/7 looking for drones... how long could they keep that up?

    The only redeeming factor, if the Moskva was sunk by an AShM, would be the fact that the slavas' aren't inherently technologically inferior, but that the Russian fleet command is borderline traitorous.

    Biggest word in the english language... if.

    Having thoughts here to a possible false flag opportunity being set up. Will bear watching.

    Or the leadership is taking the opportunity to do a runner when the running is good and hope that the rest stay and die as a message to the enemy... the best thing the remaining fighters can do is surrender and lay down their arms and spill their guts to the enemy about what Kiev is up to.

    Have also read from other sources that the original Russian pull back was to get out of the range of the Ukrainian artillery which was firing from in the city behind civilian structures.

    Very sensible if true.

    Austrian colonel's assessment of russian army performance in 2022

    Already posted above in post 193.

    This seems to be another sales pitch to sell Western weapons to Middle Eastern and Asian countries. S-300FM, AK-630 and OSA we are told had issues. However, even the Russian Navy has not carried out a through investigation of the systems on board and yet some questionable Twitter handle manages to extract all the details.

    The west is not interested in the truth, they are wanting to win the propaganda war so the most embarrassing story that might be plausible is what they will push... if it is easily discredited they move on and make some other shit up... plenty of western sheep hear the claim and don't hear the rebuttal so believe it to be true anyway.

    This is all about the US MIC selling more shit.

    What weapon system will the U.S offer in place of S-300FM? SM-6? Assuming they do, how will the customer figure out that SM-6 too doesn't have the same issues that apparently plagued the S-300FM?

    No model of SM would be of any use against low flying anti ship missiles, but that is what they will try to sell anyway. SeaRam is a frankensteins monster of various parts from Stinger and Sidewinder and Hellfire all mashed together to make a CIWS missile for close in self defence...

    Not good.

    Isn't that the same source that claimed that a Russian ship had been hit with an anti ship missile?

    Homoerotic performance by Elensky

    Clearly a cross dresser... no normal guy could do that in those heels... many women break ankles in those but dances like a pro... and I mean prostitute and not a professional when I say pro.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat May 07, 2022 12:55 pm

    limb wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    limb wrote:What honour does the moskva deserve?


    If I have to explain it to you, then you truly are a lowlife POS.  Suspect

    No one takes your copium seriously.

    The only redeeming factor, if the Moskva was sunk by an AShM, would be the fact that the slavas' aren't inherently technologically inferior, but that the Russian fleet command is borderline traitorous.

    No one takes your spruiking for the Ukro Nazi orcs seriously.

    Only a dickhead of the 1st order would adopt your talking points. "Russian fleet command is borderline traitorous" - utterly laughable, doesn't even make sense. All you achieve is to outline your own congenital stupidity.

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    Post  Hole Sat May 07, 2022 12:58 pm

    franco wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    franco wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    franco wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    franco wrote:Arkanghelsk wrote: The reason 70k troops is enough right now is that the artillery of 80 BTG is huge

    Artillery assets attached to BTG are 3 to 1 in terms of ratio to manpower


    NOTE: You keep talking about 70,000 men. Obviously you are taking 800 or 900 men per BTG and multiplying by 80 or 90 BTG's. In reality a BTG would range from 600 - 900 depending on type plus each BTG would require another 1,000 plus troops in support. So 90 BTG's would actually be closer to 180,000 plus.

    Seeing as how you are telling us about Ukrainian victories, I am assuming Russia doesn't have that many troops in or they wouldn't be losing positions in Kharkov.

    Your quote post is confusing, believe you are inquiring about this (Kharkov Counteroffensive by the Ukrainian Forces—Rybar SitRep, as of 19:00, May 6, 2022)

    The article seems pretty self explanatory however is missing these two points:

    1- action around Kharkov is a diversion like Kiev was.

    2- the main importance to the action around Kharkov is the protection of the railway line crossing from Belgorod into Vovchans'k, which is the Russian main supply line into Izham and northern Luhansk. The Ukrainians are defending Kharkov with 2 regular army brigades, 2 national guard brigades and 2 territorial defense brigades plus don't have a lot of offensive capabilities.  


    For those of us unaware of the structure of said brigades, how many men ukies have in Kharkov.

    Hard really to say depending on support units and attrition to the forces. It was claimed early in the fighting to be around 30,000.  

    Ever so more important to cauldron the area. Can't let them resupply.

    Have also read from other sources that the original Russian pull back was to get out of the range of the Ukrainian artillery which was firing from in the city behind civilian structures.

    The Russian Forces pulled back because they had rivers in their back. Now they have room to maneuver and (like in the south between Kherson and Nikolaev) there are a lot of lightly armed enemy forces in open territory = artillery!

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    Post  GarryB Sat May 07, 2022 12:58 pm

    From time to time some american official will show up and claim that there is land in the Kherson region that belongs to some american oligarch or that the DPR ows the american taxpayer money for the weapons that were delivered to the Kiev regime.

    If they keep their dreams of the EU alive then that is very likely, but if the split between the west and Russia and China completes then they can just tell them to move along...

    You are clearly someone who despises the Murkan - NATOista hegemon as much as we do, yet you insist on shitting in the open wounds of those who resist them? Suspect

    No wonder Serbia failed to defend Kosovo...

    I suspect he realises they were in no position to resist and despite all the heroism the cost for resistance was high for what they actually achieved... the Americans got their way in the end anyway and never really paid a decent price for what they did.

    Except the people of Abkhazia and South Ossetia would be pleased because the declaration of Kosovo independence led to those two regions getting real independence from Georgia... a country that really was oppressing the locals.

    Russia opened its borders to the two regions in recognition of their declarations of independence which led to Georgia invading and losing those two regions permanently.

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    Post  VARGR198 Sat May 07, 2022 1:00 pm


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    Post  Hole Sat May 07, 2022 1:02 pm

    franco wrote:
    Ispan wrote:

    The thing that still don't understand is, given how dispersed the enemy is, why the Russians don't concentrate at some point at least a full battallion of 40 tanks, if only to achieve a local breakthrough. It should steamroll the enemy. I lose sleep at nights thinking about. Strange war.  dunno

    I also have similar doubts regarding massed artillery but I have to finish this. I am missing a concentration of artillery of say, just a hundred pieces in a two kilometer frontage and with a massive artillery preparation of a few hours to blast everything to pieces and then go for a breakthrough.

    With considerable reluctance I am slowly thinking that barrages like those in the First World War were a waste and maybe that concentration of cannons is overkill and we can do things better today.

    But still, I don't understand this slow advance. It's like we are in WWI, if every battallion is a combined arms unit, why it's so hard and slow to take one village after the other? I don't think it's because the Ukrops are counterattacking incessantly like in WWI, though I have read reports that some places change hands a few times until taken by ours.

    I don't understand anything, unless our guys have to kill hundreds of zombies (I propose to call ukrops that) for every advance they make, or as I fear, the number of troops is too small for the tasks set.


    NATO / USA had 7 years to train and equip the Ukrainian army in how to defend against the tank breakthrough. It was tried a few times early on but there were heavy casualties due to modern ATGM and weapons. Therefore the revert to artillery, the old Russian standby.  

    The Russian Army is doing the following in Donbass:

    Artillery and air strikes
    Tanks
    Repeat

    They´re doing this until all enemies are killed/wounded or demoralised enough to lay down their arms. Or at least until he is so weakened that they can send in the infantry to mop him up.

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    Post  GarryB Sat May 07, 2022 1:05 pm

    No one takes your spruiking for the Ukro Nazi orcs seriously.

    Only a dickhead of the 1st order would adopt your talking points. "Russian fleet command is borderline traitorous" - utterly laughable, doesn't even make sense. All you achieve is to outline your own congenital stupidity.

    A good sign of a 5th columnist is all the time blaming the administration... when it is Putins fault or the Russian Navys fault... even when we don't know for sure what even happened... 5th columnist... or someone they love because they are doing their job for them.

    Not to say Putin or parts of the Russian military don't make mistakes, but automatically blaming them and demanding they be replaced without any understanding of who might replace them is very pro west.

    All of the problems of the west can be solved if they can just get rid of Putin... which is ironic because if he is incompetent and doesn't care about Russia or the Russian people then surely the west would want him to remain in power... but they don't because he knows what he is doing... he is not perfect, but deals with things very very well.

    The Russian Forces pulled back because they had rivers in their back. Now they have room to maneuver and (like in the south between Kherson and Nikolaev) there are a lot of lightly armed enemy forces in open territory = artillery!

    Another factor is that with armoured vehicles the Russians can move around faster than Orcs on foot and are better armed and protected than Orcs travelling by combivan or SUV.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat May 07, 2022 1:06 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:Ready or not, war came along and the Moskva was required to do her duty.  Was she in a fit condition to fight? Probably not, and there was plenty of news to show that she was in poor condition and had been passed over for modernisation, but none of that matters.
    This seems to be another sales pitch to sell Western weapons to Middle Eastern and Asian countries. S-300FM, AK-630 and OSA we are told had issues. However, even the Russian Navy has not carried out a through investigation of the systems on board and yet some questionable Twitter handle manages to extract all the details.

    What weapon system will the U.S offer in place of S-300FM? SM-6? Assuming they do, how will the customer figure out that SM-6 too doesn't have the same issues that apparently plagued the S-300FM?


    The US will only sell SM-6 to cuck nations like Japan, SK and my pathetic nation of cock holsters... The SM-6 quotations list the terms of sale conditions in terms of (1) unit price, and (2) prerequisite requirement to unilaterally concede all policy-making decisions to the US Dept of State.

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    Post  Hole Sat May 07, 2022 1:06 pm

    https://sonar21.com/the-russians-continue-grinding/

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15 - Page 9 2022-010
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15 - Page 9 Fshkvd10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15 - Page 9 Fsiyly10

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    Post  JohninMK Sat May 07, 2022 1:07 pm

    Test


    Last edited by JohninMK on Sat May 07, 2022 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Hole Sat May 07, 2022 1:08 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15 - Page 9 Fsi5j910
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15 - Page 9 Fsi5j-10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15 - Page 9 Fsi5j-11

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    Post  Hole Sat May 07, 2022 1:09 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15 - Page 9 Fsgr_d10
    New flag of the Kherson region, goes back to imperial times.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #15 - Page 9 Fsieqf10
    Scrap metal

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    Post  Hole Sat May 07, 2022 1:11 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Test

    Post of the day. Laughing Laughing Laughing
    Just kidding. lol!

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat May 07, 2022 1:16 pm

    Arrow wrote:
    https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1522623171500949505

    Not good.

    Meh, the Ukro are being drawn out of the cities as Russians "withdraw", only to find themselves setup up for withering Russian firepower in response. Does anyone really believe that Ukro forces leaving their prepared defenses is gong to work out well for them? Razz Razz Razz Razz

    This is positional warfare. If the enemies defensive preparations are solid, draw them out and crush them in the open. Russia isn't fighting for territory but to destroy the Banderite military. Once the UAF and its associated Nazi formations are ground into hamburger mince, Ukro territory will be Russias for the taking. Twisted Evil

    Big picture >>> short term twitter promotions

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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Sat May 07, 2022 1:26 pm

    Supplement: Second Warship of the Russian Navy hit by Neptunes?
    Since the last night (at least, if not since earlier), there is a growing number of reports that another warship of the Russian Navy — this time the Project 11356P/Burevestnik/Admiral Grigorovich-class guided missile frigate Admiral Makarov — was hit by Ukrainian Neptune anti-ship missiles.

    https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/supplement-second-warship-of-the-russian-navy-hit-by-neptunes-4ee8da52e48d

    This character, is every day that passes, more anti-Russian.

    Cool
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat May 07, 2022 1:36 pm

    Eugenio Argentina wrote:Supplement: Second Warship of the Russian Navy hit by Neptunes?
    Since the last night (at least, if not since earlier), there is a growing number of reports that another warship of the Russian Navy — this time the Project 11356P/Burevestnik/Admiral Grigorovich-class guided missile frigate Admiral Makarov — was hit by Ukrainian Neptune anti-ship missiles.

    https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/supplement-second-warship-of-the-russian-navy-hit-by-neptunes-4ee8da52e48d

    This character, is every day that passes, more anti-Russian.

    Cool

    Debunked. The ukropi idiots posted images from a video games as "proof" Razz

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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Sat May 07, 2022 2:08 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Eugenio Argentina wrote:Supplement: Second Warship of the Russian Navy hit by Neptunes?
    Since the last night (at least, if not since earlier), there is a growing number of reports that another warship of the Russian Navy — this time the Project 11356P/Burevestnik/Admiral Grigorovich-class guided missile frigate Admiral Makarov — was hit by Ukrainian Neptune anti-ship missiles.

    https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/supplement-second-warship-of-the-russian-navy-hit-by-neptunes-4ee8da52e48d

    This character, is every day that passes, more anti-Russian.

    Cool

    Debunked.  The ukropi idiots posted images from a video games as "proof" Razz

    I was already reading in the thread that it was all a rumour.
    That is why I was surprised that this analyst echoed that false news, when it was already well denied.
    You can see that his reflexes are slow.

    Laughing

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    Post  PapaDragon Sat May 07, 2022 2:15 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:...Moskva fought, and she died....

    Apes

    Killed by a bunch of apes

    That's not a fight, that's humiliation



    Big_Gazza wrote:...She defended the Motherland and deserves respect accordingly...

    She couldn't defend herself against RC plane, respect went out the window several times over

    Best she can do for motherland is to fade away into obscurity (not that history will allow her to, this is next naval meme)



    Big_Gazza wrote:...even if she never got the chance to face off against a USN CBG and unleash a full salvo of Bazalts/Vulcan at the enemy....

    She couldn't unleash half a salvo of 30mm CIWS rounds on two Kh-35 knockoffs, USN CBG is in the realm of D&D level fantasy now



    Big_Gazza wrote:...No wonder Serbia failed to defend Kosovo...

    At least we tried and we didn't just roll over, unlike Moskva



    Big_Gazza wrote:...open wounds of those who resist them?

    Those who resist them should get their heads out of their asses and start taking this seriously, Moskva is naval equivalent of Russian POW getting their balls cut off because they were told to not harm the Nazis



    GarryB wrote:...It was performing a mission in a conflict despite not being 100% battle ready.... what honour do Serb Pilots climbing into MiG-29s whose radars were not working because they were not properly maintained to fight HATO, who outnumbered them by a wide margin and enjoyed superior situational awareness?...

    Are you actually equalizing those two situations?

    Spoiler warning: Russia is not the underdog in this story, they are not outnumbered, they have every possible superiority in situational awareness and are not fighting overwhelmingly superior enemy (they aren't even fighting reasonably smaller enemy, they are fighting rabble of apes)




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    Post  PapaDragon Sat May 07, 2022 2:24 pm

    Hole wrote:...
    The Russian Army is doing the following in Donbass:

    Artillery and air strikes
    Tanks
    Repeat

    They´re doing this until all enemies are killed/wounded or demoralised enough to lay down their arms. Or at least until he is so weakened that they can send in the infantry to mop him up.

    Which is the only intelligent way of doing this and a recipe that they should not deviate from under any circumstances


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