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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #7

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:03 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    So they're remarkably honest. Who's dishonest is the Kiev regime and their Western backers, and its just costing more lives and dragging out an unwinnable for them conflict.

    To dispose the bullshit, is enough to watch the daily shitload aired by the main propagandists back there on twitt.
    They lack ammo for real.
    As the first few days gave them some load, this is what they are using now.
    This is why they are going deeper and deeper into fake, to airing anything.

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    auslander
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    Post  auslander Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:05 pm

    auslander wrote:
    Airbornewolf wrote:
    auslander wrote:
    lyle6 wrote:


    Always saved the last tasty for them and I don't remember when we didn't share a full meal. Most were 'street dogs', no owner, no collar, nothing. All were good and all were friendly and more than one ended up serving with us, they hear things we don't.


    I understand he's being thorough and all, but that's just racist. Twisted Evil

    Dogs are much nicer than two legs, which is what dogs call us. That's why we have four, Sophia, Ye'katarina, Kristl'Yannah (aka Kristina, aka KRISTINA! STOP TEASING ALEKSANDR, HE'S THREE TIMES YOUR SIZE AND YOU FIT NICELY IN HIS MOUTH) and Aleksandr. All soldiers love dogs and kat things.

    Yes, im about the same with dogs.  lol1
    "hey buddy!, want to be friends?. i got an MRE bisquit somewhere in this vest"

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    Post  0nillie0 Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:07 pm

    Ispan wrote:I know there's probably a thread or part of the forum for this, but humor me.

    What are the comparative merits of the Mil Mi 28 and the Kamov Ka 52? It's one better than the other and what purpose they serve

    I read this article but didn't understand much,

    https://topwar.ru/193835-udarnyj-vertolet-mi-28n-poprobujte-pokritikovat.html

    I am afraid my level of knowledge ended at the end of Cold War and I have a hard time following up modern tech

    From what I understood, the Mi 28 has better avionics than the Apache, and more capable of night flying, I find it hard to believe I am sure the Apache had upgrades along.

    All helicopters look the same to me, I only look at guns and weapon pods, I tend to overlook things like speed and range.

    One question, is the good old Mi-24 Krokodil still in use in modernized versions, or it has been retired out of service?

    It seems to me helicopters aren't being used for close air support, but rather on interdiction strikes along roads.

    Also if I understood the article correctly, the helicopters now fly at night because portable SAMs can't be fired at dark? Surprising! I thought the Stingers and at all aimed by infrared, of course you first have to spot the helicopter to aim the launcher, so it makes sense.

    The KA-52 is more of a multi-purpose platform suitable for a variety of roles. It is also liked by aviation crews because of the built-in ejection system and the fact that the crew sits side-by-side, making communication somewhat easier. The Mi-28 is more of a dedicated attack helicopter imho. In terms of firepower they are on par with eachother. A new version of the Mi-28 is currently under development, which would surely surpass the apache in most parameters. The current version i would say is on par, though the Apache has an edge in electro-optical sensors & communication systems. The Mi-28 is faster and better protected against general threats.

    Most MANPAD's currently in use by the Ukraine military lack night vision or thermal sights so its hard to use them at night. I think they have found that the Su-25 is more suitable for daytime use, altough we have seen carrousel style helicopter attacks in daylight in certain areas also recently.

    Most (if not all) Mi-24's used by Russia are of the Mi-35 variant. I do not recall seeing any with the Vibetsk protection suite installed though. Which could mean a number of things (not common in service or just no beeing used). A lot of people have made a big deal about helicopter losses during this conflict, but i think they have performed well in verry difficult conditions. I hope they are able to replace the lost helicopters fast despite the possible impact of sanctions.


    Last edited by 0nillie0 on Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:12 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:No way

    Russian casualties remain under 1000

    dpr and lpr have higher casualties than russian army

    They have Z and V on vehicles making it tough to distinguish , but the bmp 1 and all that is DPR LPR so is the T72 with kontakt 1

    Ukrop dead are barely reaching 12,000 including national guard and teraborona

    So RU dead 700+ (week 1 and some of week 2 were deadliest, after that casualties leveled off significantly)

    LDNR dead 1500-2000 (estimate , by sheer volume of ambushes and inexperience and video estimate)

    Ukropia dead : 12,000 (estimated by MOD numbers and kalibration scale)

    You're being too optimistic

    The Russian SSO already has over 20 dead, and they've been active in Mariupol and around Kiev

    There have been a couple Russian motor-rifle columns taken out by artillery ambushes

    Some supply convoys ambushed over the past week too

    Some vehicles hitting mines

    Quite a few Russian losses to artillery and fighting in the Nikolayev area

    And some big battles taking place in the Kharkov and Kiev regions over the last few days

    So Russian dead are definitely above 1000. I'd say possibly above 2000.

    LNR/DNR have experienced front-line troops and they're advancing conservatively, and with the support of Russian airpower and special forces. Probably around 1000 dead, but who knows.

    Ukrainian dead you're probably underestimating. With the exception of Nikolayev the only other barracks being hit have been ones that also host foreign mercs in addition to Ukrainian fighters.
    But a lot of kindergardens, police stations and other places of habitance for Ukrainian troops have been destroyed too
    And they're being mauled by Ka-52s and Mi-28Ns, Su-25s constantly bombing and so on, as well as the tank and artillery battles.
    Apparently they lost half their strength in Mariupol already, and that place has thousands of troops; Azov, naval infantry, police, etc..
    I'd say at least 15k Ukrainian dead, probably closer to 20k. And this shit saddens me, because at the end of the day it's Russia who started the conflict and even then, it could have gone a different way if our command wasn't short-sighted.

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    VARGR198
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    Post  VARGR198 Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:14 pm

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:23 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    You're being too optimistic

    I think same, but would locate the number somewhere in between.
    While the Ukro numbers much higher than that.

    Just take a look at picterous things we could watch in the very first day, when the casualties really were quite common.
    The most impressive would be a smashing of the VDV column in Bucha 24th Feb. All done by artillery, that levelled the whole street as well, but who cares about civilians sleeping there in the early morning.
    It was documented for each piece, angle, direction and range, being in hands of Ukros for 2-3 more days.
    The all they could present there, was 2 death bodies. One of it mutilliated in bush side by the road.
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I have never saw more.
    As VDV spearhead entered Hostomel heading to the airport, they catch the ambush fire as well, some loses among the material&personel occurred. Again, it was heavily documented for the same reason, with multiple materials made on the ground.
    I have counted 5 dead.
    New uniforms, new protection means, modern extraction methods etc pushes the death ratio significantly lower. More people would be injured.

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    Post  par far Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:26 pm

    This is how dead foreign mercenaries are treated by the Nazis and the Ukrainians.

    https://t.me/intelslava/23267

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:33 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    You're being too optimistic

    I think same, but would locate the number somewhere in between.
    While the Ukro numbers much higher than that.

    Just take a look at picterous things we could watch in the very first day, when the casualties really were quite common.
    The most impressive would be a smashing of the VDV column in Bucha 24th Feb. All done by artillery, that levelled the whole street as well, but who cares about civilians sleeping there in the early morning.
    It was documented for each piece, angle, direction and range, being in hands of Ukros for 2-3 more days.
    The all they could present there, was 2 death bodies. One of it mutilliated in bush side by the road.
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I have never saw more.
    As VDV spearhead entered Hostomel heading to the airport, they catch the ambush fire as well, some loses among the material&personel occurred. Again, it was heavily documented for the same reason, with multiple materials made on the ground.
    I have counted 5 dead.
    New uniforms, new protection means, modern extraction methods etc pushes the death ratio significantly lower. More people would be injured.

    I remember a Ukr vid on the first day, showed Russian helicopters being downed by HMG fire with some angry Nazi screaming behind the camera

    So it's BS the reports that it was taken without any helicopters being downed, as I heard from a couple of Mi-24 pilot interviews. There was that Ka-52 which crash landed as well (although the pilots were safely extracted)

    The Ukrs have done their artillery ambushes fairly well. Quite a few columns taken out. And some logistics convoys raided, personnel killed or captured.

    The VDV recon platoon destroyed near Nikolayev. Now some Russian loses near Nikolayev being published as well, looks like from artillery, the Nikolayev garrison was active with its grads and cannons among the kruschevka courtyards until it was pummeled by missiles

    And of course all the recon units who entered Kharkov from multiple directions, a lot were ambushed, although a lot managed to retreat sans vehicles.

    Some SSO and other special forces dead in Mariupol, think there was a pic or a vid
    And a vid of some sort of artillery or RPG strike by Azov in Mariupol, dunno if it was against DNR or against the Chechens, they were grouped up whoever they are, maybe 10-15 killed and wounded. Likely Chechens as the DNR have more sense.

    The Strunger ATGM has been impressive, although I don't think they've taken out too many tanks based on the vids. The BTR-4 isn't bad, has taken out some vehicles in Mariupol.
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    Post  Scorpius Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:39 pm

    Ispan wrote:I know there's probably a thread or part of the forum for this, but humor me.

    What are the comparative merits of the Mil Mi 28 and the Kamov Ka 52? It's one better than the other and what purpose they serve

    I read this article but didn't understand much,

    https://topwar.ru/193835-udarnyj-vertolet-mi-28n-poprobujte-pokritikovat.html

    I am afraid my level of knowledge ended at the end of Cold War and I have a hard time following up modern tech

    From what I understood, the Mi 28 has better avionics than the Apache, and more capable of night flying, I find it hard to believe I am sure the Apache had upgrades along.

    All helicopters look the same to me, I only look at guns and weapon pods, I tend to overlook things like speed and range.

    One question, is the good old Mi-24 Krokodil still in use in modernized versions, or it has been retired out of service?

    It seems to me helicopters aren't being used for close air support, but rather on interdiction strikes along roads.

    Also if I understood the article correctly, the helicopters now fly at night because portable SAMs can't be fired at dark? Surprising! I thought the Stingers and at all aimed by infrared, of course you first have to spot the helicopter to aim the launcher, so it makes sense.

    In short: consider the Mi-28N as a long-range archer - hunter of armored vehicles. The Ka-52 is a universal reconnaissance and attack helicopter, the Mi-24 and Mi-35 are "flying armored personnel carriers".
    Each of these helicopters is now part of the Russian army aviation in the amount of 100-150 units according to official data.

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    VARGR198
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    Post  VARGR198 Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:44 pm

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:47 pm

    Scorpius wrote:
    Ispan wrote:I know there's probably a thread or part of the forum for this, but humor me.

    What are the comparative merits of the Mil Mi 28 and the Kamov Ka 52? It's one better than the other and what purpose they serve

    I read this article but didn't understand much,

    https://topwar.ru/193835-udarnyj-vertolet-mi-28n-poprobujte-pokritikovat.html

    I am afraid my level of knowledge ended at the end of Cold War and I have a hard time following up modern tech

    From what I understood, the Mi 28 has better avionics than the Apache, and more capable of night flying, I find it hard to believe I am sure the Apache had upgrades along.

    All helicopters look the same to me, I only look at guns and weapon pods, I tend to overlook things like speed and range.

    One question, is the good old Mi-24 Krokodil still in use in modernized versions, or it has been retired out of service?

    It seems to me helicopters aren't being used for close air support, but rather on interdiction strikes along roads.

    Also if I understood the article correctly, the helicopters now fly at night because portable SAMs can't be fired at dark? Surprising! I thought the Stingers and at all aimed by infrared, of course you first have to spot the helicopter to aim the launcher, so it makes sense.

    In short: consider the Mi-28N as a long-range archer - hunter of armored vehicles. The Ka-52 is a universal reconnaissance and attack helicopter, the Mi-24 and Mi-35 are "flying armored personnel carriers".
    Each of these helicopters is now part of the Russian army aviation in the amount of 100-150 units according to official data.

    The Mi-24 is a damn Sturmovik



    In addition to being a part-time APC and extraction unit (it evacuated the downed Ka-52 pilots AFAIK)

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    Post  JohninMK Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:51 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    I remember a Ukr vid on the first day, showed Russian helicopters being downed by HMG fire with some angry Nazi screaming behind the camera

    So it's BS the reports that it was taken without any helicopters being downed, as I heard from a couple of Mi-24 pilot interviews. There was that Ka-52 which crash landed as well (although the pilots were safely extracted)

    The Ukrs have done their artillery ambushes fairly well. Quite a few columns taken out. And some logistics convoys raided, personnel killed or captured.

    The VDV recon platoon destroyed near Nikolayev. Now some Russian loses near Nikolayev being published as well, looks like from artillery, the Nikolayev garrison was active with its grads and cannons among the kruschevka courtyards until it was pummeled by missiles

    And of course all the recon units who entered Kharkov from multiple directions, a lot were ambushed, although a lot managed to retreat sans vehicles.

    Some SSO and other special forces dead in Mariupol, think there was a pic or a vid
    And a vid of some sort of artillery or RPG strike by Azov in Mariupol, dunno if it was against DNR or against the Chechens, they were grouped up whoever they are, maybe 10-15 killed and wounded. Likely Chechens as the DNR have more sense.

    The Strunger ATGM has been impressive, although I don't think they've taken out too many tanks based on the vids. The BTR-4 isn't bad, has taken out some vehicles in Mariupol.

    Then you have the view of the USNATO

    Bloomberg
    @business
    · 3h
    A senior NATO military officer says the alliance estimates that Russia has suffered between 30,000 and 40,000 battlefield casualties in Ukraine through the first month of the war, including between 7,000 and 15,000 killed (via AP) https://trib.al/RWXwrQY

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    Post  littlerabbit Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:52 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:That gas for rubles announcement is a game changer

    Putin has dropped the hammer and it hit harder than kinzhal


    Not only gas and oil...everything! russia

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:53 pm

    No losses did not amount to hundreds in week 3 and 4

    I stand by my estimates and we will have confirmation from MOD soon

    Some ambushes occurred, again that does not skew the numbers above 1000, perhaps approximately 1000, hence 700+

    But not 2000, not even 1500

    Recall Kharkov has not been entered , neither has Kiev, neither other cities

    Mariupol yes, but that battle used heavy munitions on the cities

    And chechens survived combats , although there are certain guys not seen again

    But even then, if chechens kept kicking, the same could be said of regular Russian units

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:58 pm

    JohninMK wrote:

    Then you have the view of the USNATO

    Bloomberg
    @business
    · 3h
    A senior NATO military officer says the alliance estimates that Russia has suffered between 30,000 and 40,000 battlefield casualties in Ukraine through the first month of the war, including between 7,000 and 15,000 killed (via AP) https://trib.al/RWXwrQY

    This is beyond bizarre.

    The Baghdad Bob and "das war ein Befehl! Der Angriff Steiners war Befehl!" jokes just write themselves.

    Not to be too much of a Godwin's law guy, but all this junk has Panzerbär all over it. The "we pushed them 70kms back from Kiev" was relayed far and wide, then corrected a day later to "we encircled them 30kms from Kiev", and now it's "we successfully fired a shot at them 20kms from Kiev" thing.

    And nobody stops to think why the Russians aren't pushing for anything there right now, only holding lines.

    ...Because 40-50% of the UA armed forces are concentrated in the east, and Kiev is just a distraction, and the Russians aren't there to just destroy everything. Only the UA military, as  cleanly as possible, so they are taking their sweet time

    A fact that only some 4 weeks in seem to have dawned on some Western commentators. Even though the Russians said so from the beginning.


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:13 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Post  JohninMK Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:10 pm

    Gleb Bazov
    @gbazov
    ·
    1h
    B5b—#NIKOLAYEV-#ODESSA—Politician #Sharii (party banned by #Zelensky, along with all opposition parties, despite his pro-#Ukraine (but anti-#Zelensky) position) says that 294 fighters of 79th Brigade were eliminated in missile strike by #Russia. Says will publish all names.

    B1d—#IZYUM—#Ukraine|ian forces continue throwing reserves in direction of Izyum, so as to retard #Russia|n offensive near #Barvenkovo and on #Slavyansk-#Kramatorsk strongpoint. #Russia|n airforce has started targeted supply lines, ammo/fuel depots of #UA #Donbass grouping. 22/33

    B1c—#IZYUM—#Russia|n airforce also conducted strikes on railway junction in #Pavlograd and military targets in #Lozovaya. These strikes indicate a clear intention by #RF to cut off one of the last remaining resupply lines leading into pre-cauldroned #Slavyansk-#Kramatorsk.

    B1b—#IZYUM—#Russia|n airforce conducted further strikes near #Kamenka, a strategic point near the #Slavyansk-#Pavlograd supply/reinforcement line of the #Donbass grouping of #Ukraine|ian forces. Strikes also on military targets in #Slavyansk-#Kramatorsk urban agglomeration.


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    Post  Stealthflanker Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:16 pm

    I wonder how UA weapon tracker can "identify" a captured container as "Command post of Krasuha-4" system while the real one doesn't seem to share any similarities with the one being displayed. No hydraulic jacks, no generator set and most importantly, why does it on the ground despite for decades, Russia's ground based jammer be it the emitting part and its command post are stick together with their respective carrier vehicles.

    The most bizzare things however is that how the military analysis outlet like the drive, avionists hyped about it.. seemingly without single thought.

    This is plain insanity.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:22 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:I wonder how UA weapon tracker can "identify" a captured container as "Command post of Krasuha-4" system while the real one doesn't seem to share any similarities with the one being displayed. No hydraulic jacks, no generator set and most importantly, why does it on the ground despite for decades, Russia's ground based jammer be it the emitting part and its command post are stick together with their respective carrier vehicles.

    The most bizzare things however is that how the military analysis outlet like the drive, avionists hyped about it.. seemingly without single thought.

    This is plain insanity.

    See my earlier post on the container.

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:24 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:I wonder how UA weapon tracker can "identify" a captured container as "Command post of Krasuha-4" system while the real one doesn't seem to share any similarities with the one being displayed. No hydraulic jacks, no generator set and most importantly, why does it on the ground despite for decades, Russia's ground based jammer be it the emitting part and its command post are stick together with their respective carrier vehicles.

    The most bizzare things however is that how the military analysis outlet like the drive, avionists hyped about it.. seemingly without single thought.

    This is plain insanity.

    Nothing bizzare, just a state propaganda machine like no other

    The empire of lies, as Putin called it

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:28 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Regarding that container (post seems to have been removed?) it's impossible to say what it is based on that photograph.

    It's a standard КК4/6 2.30.1 container, used for everything from field kitchens to first aid field hospitals.

    And "Krasukha" control unit too. But what's more likely?

    It's been flipped over on its side (the corrugated floor bottom is visible), which make it look like it was just dumped in all haste to lighten the load, increasing the carrier truck's mobility.

    The grass on top looks weird, as it's technically on it's side, so the interiors would be all scrambled. Why camouflage it in that state?

    Mobile interface is not super streamlined, but here.

    Of course, it could be a Russian state-of-the-art EW control center dumped near the frontline. But it could also be the local borsch joint.


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:28 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:
    One thing regarding them, that I've seen multiple times is the curious use of unguided rockets in indirect fire. That is, launching them at extended ranges, pointing above the intended target, with ballistic drop in mind. Haven't yet seen any information about whether the FCS computers calculate for this type of utilization, or if it's done by "feel".

    I think Fighterbomber wrote about this and explained it was very precise

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    Post  Hole Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:30 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #7 - Page 24 Fojpdh10

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    Post  Erk Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:31 pm

    Very interesting panel discussion with former UN weapons inspector, and US intelligence expert, Scott Ritter on The Grayzone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSkpIq3T-Zc

    It was a live stream which just finished.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:39 pm

    Hole wrote:Russian special military operation in Ukraine #7 - Page 24 Fojpdh10

    hit them, just hit them ...on serbian...

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    Post  Stealthflanker Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:40 pm

    On the subject of firing rockets at high angle tho. It's a Soviet era tactic.

    http://www.nva-flieger.de/index.php/taktik/arfk/angriffsverfahren-gefechtsordnung.htm

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