Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+79
mr_hd
Belisarius
Erk
Azi
owais.usmani
Walther von Oldenburg
jhelb
Lurk83
mavaff
RTN
Rasisuki Nebia
jon_deluxe
DerWolf
psg
lyle6
Dima
zepia
Rodion_Romanovic
Arsenic
auslander
sundoesntrise
Krepost
nero
ATLASCUB
Godric
Singular_Transform
ArgentinaGuard
Ispan
AlfaT8
VARGR198
Boshoed
Eugenio Argentina
Cheetah
Dr.Snufflebug
Scorpius
ludovicense
Sujoy
rigoletto
mnrck
GunshipDemocracy
d_taddei2
GarryB
magnumcromagnon
mnztr
Broski
LMFS
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
kvs
franco
Werewolf
mack8
par far
Odin of Ossetia
lancelot
Airbornewolf
teh_beard
Vann7
andalusia
Arkanghelsk
JohninMK
zorobabel
Big_Gazza
Arrow
flamming_python
nomadski
EkErilaz
walle83
diabetus
limb
Mir
Stealthflanker
Hole
ucmvulcan
Urluber
ALAMO
Regular
miketheterrible
Aristide
Isos
83 posters

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    avatar
    limb


    Posts : 704
    Points : 722
    Join date : 2020-09-17

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  limb Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:56 pm

    I was talking to my Prorussian friend and he thinks Russia's main failure is very bad opsec, the FSB being incompetent and most importantly there being traitors in the Russian armed forces who disclose Russian troop movements to western intelligence who then relay them to Ukraine, allowing them to stage ambushes.

    He believes that FSB is terrible because it hasn't rooted out these traitors before the operation, but in the end this Opera tion is a positive development because it's exposing the activities of those antirussian traitors allowing them to be located and dealt with.

    What do you think? Has the FSB dropped the ball? What can Russia do to prevent Ukrainians from knowing where Russian troops are?
    avatar
    Vann7


    Posts : 5353
    Points : 5457
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Vann7 Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:07 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    DerWolf wrote:I read somewhere Russia trying to create  Kherson' s republic. Anyone heard something about it?

    That was a Ukrainian claim

    I'd wait for proof first. I don't see the point in such a republic, it wouldn't have any popular support.


    I don't think Russia military and government ,after all the consequences and sacrifices they had to endure , in russian lives and sanctions to pacify ukraine ,they will allow kiev to ever have any control over the zones they were targeting with artillery for 8 years and neither will allow odessa to ever fall under control of kiev in another coup in kiev ,after NATO install another nazi puppet.  that will be an insult to their military after their human losses and economic losses , since they were forced to invade.

    What is more than likely to happen , is that ukraine will be federalized divided in fully autonomous republics ,where every major region of ukraine ,will have their own national guard and police and kiev will have no authority over its politics or security..  because the ukraine army will be defeated , then russia will set the terms , for their inconditionnal surrender.  So you will have the lugansk republic , the donetsk republic , the kerson republic controlling from dnieper rive exit to the north ,
    then odessa republic , from coast to the north all the way to transnistria.. then kiev republic region ,and lvov another republic.  so ukraine spilit in 10 federalzed republics , similar to united states , but
    where kiev will significantly lose power to control them.. so it will be like a lose alliance of cities only for the sake of keeping the european union away from capturing any part of ukraine.

    Marks my words ukraine will be split in many parts ,similar to what soviet union did to the russian empire . split it in many parts , but with major decentralization of power. and russia military will have several military bases permanently in ukraine forever near the borders of romania ,moldova and hungary , to keep control of ukraine borders with europe.  this is what i will have done in putin shoes.. it will be a mistake to after conquering all ukraine and losing 10k to 30k soldiers , to allow later the european union to organize another civil war , armed by nato again.  

    so for guarantee that ukraine will not rebel again ,as it did in 2014 ,ukraine needs to be
    1)100% disarmed from any nato and lethal military grade weapon .
    2) denazified , all nazis parties declared terrorist organizations and offers major rewards for information for their arrest, to have them in the run to europe.
    3)ukraine will need to be split in many parts ,the more the better ,with fully autonomous zones ,
    using the russian caucasus model.  so if for example kiev start a rebellion as they did in 2014 ,then they will be encircle by other republics.. similar to what happened to chechenia.. that after chechen rebels captured the whole city ,they saw they were encircle and had no place to move ,no control over their airspace or no way to develop without a land connection to any western country.
    4)cancelation of the ukraine nazi constitution ,banning nazism and nato from the country. russian language and pro russian parties return again. with a puppet government in kiev.
    5)television , media , internet all regulated , no EU media allowed in ukraine.
    6)nato embassies potentially removed from ukraine ,that have been used as centers or recruitment of opposition.

    after than , i predict up to half of the young people in ukraine will move to europe , lured by the west so they brainwashed so they can continue causing problems , but russia will be prepared to use strong hand against the violence , will not allow protesters to do ,what they did in kiev in 2014. Over time the euromaidanites movement will die , because they will see europe is becoming a dictatorship ,much worse than russia. specially with this mandatory vaccines.. and nazis will wish they never left ukraine ,after they discover the nasty surprises that exist in those western fake vaccines experiments.
    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3514
    Points : 3512
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:24 pm



    Un-fcking believable... and still the Western MSM lying MFers insist on saying that Ukro orcs are just "Russian propaganda"... Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    GarryB, psg, Werewolf, magnumcromagnon, kvs, zepia, VARGR198 and like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3514
    Points : 3512
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:29 pm

    limb wrote:I was talking to my Prorussian friend and he thinks Russia's main failure is very bad opsec, the FSB being incompetent and most importantly there being traitors in the Russian armed forces who disclose Russian troop movements to western intelligence who then relay them to Ukraine, allowing them to stage ambushes.

    He believes that FSB is terrible because it hasn't rooted out these traitors before the operation, but in the end this Opera tion is a positive development because it's exposing the activities of those antirussian traitors allowing them to be located and dealt with.

    What do you think? Has the FSB dropped the ball? What can Russia do to prevent Ukrainians from knowing where Russian troops are?

    I'll tell you what I think. You need to stop talking shit.

    Seriously? Who fcking cares what average joe shmo thinks or says? Russians pulled Syria out of the regime-change fire, yet there are legions of ignorant fuckwitz out there that think the Ruskies are incompetent or their ranks are filled with "traitors"???

    Pfftt...

    GarryB, d_taddei2, magnumcromagnon, par far, kvs, JohninMK, miketheterrible and like this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 1828
    Points : 1830
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:38 pm

    Melitopol under its new head Vladimir Rogov:

    * Debt jubilee
    * Gas/utilities prices lowered to Russian levels
    * Temp tax holiday
    * Russian market opened to farmers
    * Local militia to support Rosgvardiya

    Technically Russia doesn't need to stay behind,
    It is creating a new elite and governing system as we speak and the New leadership will be supported by the Kremlin,

    Of course nation building of United States was understood and studied by Russia

    And the negatives experience by US during nation building attempts in the Russia itself, totally disregarding failed attempt in Latin America, Asia, Africa, and the middle east, showed that the Americans whenever tried to build a new state system under management of US leaders, always failed to take into account the historical and cultural realities of the cultures, religions, familial relations and other such subtleties which marked the identity of the people in such land. This is why Soviet Afghanistan held longer than US Afghanistan, and in fact it would have lasted longer if it had not been for the disregard of the pashtuns.

    The reality is , neoNazi Ukraine was never a viable state that is why banderites had to hold it together at the barrel of a gun.

    For Russia, reverting Ukraine to its original design, is a matter of respecting the cultural, religious, ethnic, history of the people in those lands

    So to create the Melitopol region, donbass region, lughansk region, Chernigov region, Kharkov region, Zaporyzhya region, kherson region and so on is matter of respecting state history

    Ensure economic order, ensure viable government and stability , strengthen the ethnic identity (like chechnya), and weave the fabric of the new social strata so that Moscow has leverage over the new leaders of the republics

    Everyone has to remember , Russia has been in these situations as before. Russia must create a new order, instead of a internal revolution shaping Russia, Russia must shape and dictate the events around it.

    It is similar to the supra national building of the USSR , but without revolution. Also, history may rhyme, but it's never the same.

    Russia is creating a supranational body, EEU and will be represented by this bloc. Russia is done with the era of local or regional politics. It must rise to the level of world politics. This includes a new economic system as well, a new relationship system between EEU states, and implementing a new concept for global security.

    As US operates through NATO, europeans act as the EU, and China through BRI, SCO, and ASEAN,

    Russia must create its own supranational system, so that it is not junior partner to any other bloc, Ukraine is the test, to build a functioning regional level state , and incorporate it into the supranational body EEU

    GarryB, d_taddei2, magnumcromagnon, par far, Big_Gazza, kvs, JohninMK and like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3514
    Points : 3512
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:40 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:So the grouping in the donbass of the VSU cannot retreat or move to any other cities

    They have 2 options, stay, or counterattack the DPR

    It would be suicide for them, but they have no other choice

    How would Russia deal with the potential counterattack of the VSU in the donetsk direction?

    Is that what tu22m3 , tu95, and tu160 at engels are prepared for?

    Massive strikes at the enemy in this direction?

    The LOC is massively fortified in both directions, the nazis would really need to go full kamikaze to advance in that direction, which is sadly a possibility, but has already been learnt in Syria. Of course carpet bombing/shelling is always a possibility for the Russian forces if required.

    If the Ukroratz in the Donbass had any hope of being able to counterattack in the face of overwhelming Russian firepower and total control of the air, then they would have done so.  They are immobilised and unable to move in the open in significant numbers else they will be annihilated. All they can do is hunker down in the fortifications and continue to fire their arty from concealed and hardened locations.

    GarryB, Werewolf, magnumcromagnon, JohninMK, LMFS and Broski like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3514
    Points : 3512
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:52 pm

    DerWolf wrote:If Ukraine accepts the Russian conditions of neutrality, do u think Russia with completely withdraw from Ukraine?

    Not a chance. New Ukropistan, in whatever form it will take, will be wearing L-plates for a decade and there will be plenty of East Ukrainian forces to compel a good level of compliance to the new realities. East Ukrainians hate the far right nationalists with a passion, and they will do the bulk of the work in guarding against any resurgence of Nazism or US/NATOstani influence. I don't expect Russia will need much of an "occupation" force when they simply need to enable the Russian ethnic loyalists to protect their own people and interests.

    d_taddei2, magnumcromagnon, kvs and Hole like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3514
    Points : 3512
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:19 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    DerWolf wrote:If Ukraine accepts the Russian conditions of neutrality, do u think Russia with completely withdraw from Ukraine?

    I think so

    No point in it staying

    Unbelievable naivete. Russia isn't about to go to war to dismantle the filthy Banderite regime and then just hand 404 nation back to them after the fighting stops. Banderites and their hateful ideology are a lethal virus and it will take a long term treatment plan to heal the patient fully and prevent any chance of a relapse.

    magnumcromagnon, kvs, Odin of Ossetia, LMFS, Hole and Broski like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 6852
    Points : 6930
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  flamming_python Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:25 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    DerWolf wrote:If Ukraine accepts the Russian conditions of neutrality, do u think Russia with completely withdraw from Ukraine?

    I think so

    No point in it staying

    Unbelievable naivete.  Russia isn't about to go to war to dismantle the filthy Banderite regime and then just hand 404 nation back to them after the fighting stops.  Banderites and their hateful ideology are a lethal virus and it will take a long term treatment plan to heal the patient fully and prevent any chance of a relapse.

    Long-term treatment plan is an agreement with their elites

    Nothing else
    teh_beard
    teh_beard


    Posts : 78
    Points : 80
    Join date : 2015-05-04
    Location : St.-Petersburg, Russia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  teh_beard Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:26 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Not a chance. New Ukropistan, in whatever form it will take, will be wearing L-plates for a decade and there will be plenty of East Ukrainian forces to compel a good level of compliance to the new realities.  East Ukrainians hate the far right nationalists with a passion, and they will do the bulk of the work in guarding against any resurgence of Nazism or US/NATOstani influence.  I don't expect Russia will need much of an "occupation" force when they simply need to enable the Russian ethnic loyalists to protect their own people and interests.
    That will still require a fair long occupation and "state-building" to facilitate that. If Russia withdraws too soon any loyal and convienient administration made of 'locals' would just not take.
    So we are in this for a long time...

    I only worry about financial side of things.
    All the blown up shit - buildings, bridges, industry, whole cities, will be repaired on our dime. Chechnia and Crimea already took a hard felt effort. To add all what we reduced to rubble in Ukraine and yet will before it ends - is just too much.
    And of course there will be no lines of creditors and investors from benevolent West... maybe Chinese, but they are not into shit investments.

    This, not the shitty sanctions, will be the real consequence and burden.
    But in 20 years there will be Ukraininas rolling shoulder to shoulder with us yet somewhere again, like Chechens are right now.
    And that, really, makes anyone Russian. So it is our gain.

    d_taddei2, magnumcromagnon, Big_Gazza, zepia, miketheterrible, Hole, lyle6 and like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3514
    Points : 3512
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:34 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Ensure economic order, ensure viable government and stability , strengthen the ethnic identity (like chechnya), and weave the fabric of the new social strata so that Moscow has leverage over the new leaders of the republics

    I think this is the key to managing post-Banderite Ukraine, and Russia has form in this game - just look at how Chechnya has been resurrected. If Russia can turn around Chechnya from a hard-line nationalist non-Russian ethnic state infected with both home-grown Islamists and foreign-backed well-funded Wahabbi terrorists, then why would anyone seriously doubt they can achieve better results in a Ukraine where the people are of the same ethnicity and share a long history, culture, language.

    Western Ukraine will prove more of a challenge than the South and the East, but if Russia can save Chechnya, why not Banderastan? Granted it might take Chechnya-style levels of explosively-facilitated urban deconstruction followed by large scale renewal projects for those who get with the new program, but that's a project I could happily support Razz

    magnumcromagnon, kvs and Broski like this post

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 12992
    Points : 13139
    Join date : 2014-09-10
    Location : Kanada

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  kvs Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:43 pm

    Russia does not need to absorb liberated "Ukraine" to bring it back to health. If it can prevent Banderite infiltration and provide cheap
    energy and open up trade, then the local economy will develop. This is important since the people need to be invested in their recovery.
    It cannot be a welfare leech farm. But by no means should Russia pander to world "opinion" and some meaningless international "law".
    The west exerts control and set the rules of the game. Playing by fictional rules (democracy and self-determination) is guaranteed
    failure. Russia has already taken on the consequences for its "invasion". Pulling back will not restore anything.

    magnumcromagnon, Big_Gazza, lyle6, lancelot and Broski like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3514
    Points : 3512
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:43 pm

    teh_beard wrote:

    I only worry about financial side of things.
    All the blown up shit - buildings, bridges, industry, whole cities, will be repaired on our dime. Chechnia and Crimea already took a hard felt effort. To add all what we reduced to rubble in Ukraine and yet will before it ends - is just too much.
    And of course there will be no lines of creditors and investors from benevolent West... maybe Chinese, but they are not into shit investments.
    .

    Unlike Chechnya (and Crimea to a large extent) Ukraine has resources that can be harnessed to empower her resurgence. High quality anthracite coal, minerals, agriculture etc. She still has some industrial assets that are worth saving, as long as they are now redirected to supporting the broader Russian industry and MIC. Western big-agri corporate investments need to be seized and nationalised without compensation (easy to do now that the west has gone nuclear with their sanctions), and the markets reconfigured to target Russia's friends to the east and the global south.

    Fck the US and their Euro-faggot cock-holsters and whatever these clowns might think or say. Their "investments" ie carpet-baggery and the whole-sale theft of Ukrainian national assets and resources in exchange for gross enrichment of its corrupt elites, are now forfeit.

    GarryB, psg, magnumcromagnon, kvs, GunshipDemocracy, Ispan, Rodion_Romanovic and like this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 1828
    Points : 1830
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:44 pm

    The thing is a federalized Ukraine still represents a lucrative asset to the EEU

    At a supranational level, the integration of economically productive Ukraine will be huge boost to the potential of Russian Supranational project

    Russia has to create a new economic order, and Ukraine is a test of the capabilities of Russia at the global governance level

    Gazza you are right to highlight Russian experience in Chechnya.

    Ukraine is not so foreign in this regard. It is the same religious, ethnic, linguistic, and cultural level.

    So digesting Ukraine is not hard.

    It's just the economic output of these states needs to be plugged into Russia and Russia must then turn this output into a finished product and export it back to the regional centers

    It is a state building effort, not just of Ukraine but of the EEU level

    d_taddei2, magnumcromagnon, Big_Gazza, kvs, Ispan, Hole and Broski like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3514
    Points : 3512
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:54 pm

    Buggar... Looks like dragon_first_1 at LiveJournal won't be updating his maps any more....

    Dear readers!
    There will be no more maps of hostilities in Ukraine and on the territory of the DPR and LPR in my blog.
    Very respected people (who sit so high that Magadan is visible from the windows of their offices) strongly recommended that I stop this business. Well. Perhaps their advice should be heeded.
    My help in this form is not needed. They'll manage on their own.

    Oh well... this will add to the fog of war, but nothing will change in terms of progress and the dismantling of this filthy pro-NATzO nationalist regime russia

    franco, magnumcromagnon, LMFS and lyle6 like this post

    teh_beard
    teh_beard


    Posts : 78
    Points : 80
    Join date : 2015-05-04
    Location : St.-Petersburg, Russia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  teh_beard Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:59 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Unlike Chechnya (and Crimea to a large extent) Ukraine has resources that can be harnessed to empower her resurgence. High quality anthracite coal, minerals, agriculture etc.  She still has some industrial assets that are worth saving, as long as they are now redirected to supporting the broader Russian industry and MIC. Western big-agri corporate investments need to be seized and nationalised without compensation (easy to do now that the west has gone nuclear with their sanctions), and the markets reconfigured to target Russia's friends to the east and the global south.  

    Fck the US and their Euro-faggot cock-holsters and whatever these clowns might think or say. Their "investments" ie carpet-baggery and the whole-sale theft of Ukrainian national assets and resources in exchange for gross enrichment of its corrupt elites, are now forfeit.
    Chechnia has a bit of oil and tourist potential. Wink

    And we are of very different opinions on state of Ukrainian industry.
    I adhere to one that states it is in an abysmal shit. Even before invasion, when infrastructure quickly goes down the same direction at the rate bridges and roads get blown up (not by us), and all objects of MIC get calibrated like no tommorrow (by us).
    Investment it will require to just fix the damage, and then - to bring it up the proper level, will be enourmous.

    GarryB likes this post

    rigoletto
    rigoletto


    Posts : 140
    Points : 142
    Join date : 2021-11-22

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  rigoletto Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:06 pm

    [Ria Novosti] Kadyrov commented on reports of his possible stay in Ukraine

    Your intelligence is lame... In the video we are in Gostomel. The other day we were
    about 20 kilometers from you, Kiev Nazis, and at the moment even closer, and guess
    how close we got?"

    ...
    He also added that the SBU intelligence does not know how to work, as foreign instructors
    and military advisers teach according to outdated methods. "We will actually show you that
    Russian practice teaches war better than foreign theory and the recommendations of military
    advisers. Or maybe we are already in Kiev and are just waiting for the right command?"
    Kadyrov concluded.


    https://ria-ru.translate.goog/20220314/mestonakhozhdenie-1777977594.html?rcmd_alg=slotter&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

    GarryB, d_taddei2, magnumcromagnon, Hannibal Barca, kvs, JohninMK and Hole like this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 1828
    Points : 1830
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:06 pm

    Ukrainian industry, is in a state of shit, but it can and will be rebuilt

    Antonov can be integrated into UAC

    Zorya Mashproekt into USC

    Conglomerate corporations can go into Ukraine and finance the rebuilding of the industrial sector

    With proper credit disbursement (printing) of the Ruble minting and printing press, financing at low interest rates can be provided

    This credit can be used to update the industrial sectors of Ukraine to begin to produce polymer wings , electronics and other components to UAC projects

    Zorya mashproekt can produce new diesel engines for USC for projects of the MOD

    Agriculturally, Ukraine can contribute to relief from inflationary pressures on food by increasing the food supply and availability to EEU.

    Yusmazh should be integrated into the space complex as well

    All the best laid plans for Ukraine will be completed because it is a must

    magnumcromagnon, Big_Gazza, kvs, Rodion_Romanovic, Hole and Broski like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3514
    Points : 3512
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:08 pm

    Good article (by Scott Ritter) discussing how the Western sanctions are enabling the overall strategy of decoupling Russia from US/EU financial influences. Its truly astounding how myopic the Western ruling classes have become, they really have no idea about the reality of what they are doing.   Laughing

    This may seem to be OT, but still its relevant to the overall discussion of this special operation (economic defenses are just as vital as military offenses when one desires to achieve far-reaching geopolitical gains and secure strategic victories on the global chessboard)

    https://www.energyintel.com/0000017f-797c-df49-abff-fffdd6cf0000


    Last edited by Big_Gazza on Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB, franco, magnumcromagnon, LMFS, Hole and owais.usmani like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3514
    Points : 3512
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:20 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Ukrainian industry, is in a state of shit, but it can and will be rebuilt

    Antonov can be integrated into UAC

    Zorya Mashproekt into USC

    Conglomerate corporations can go into Ukraine and finance the rebuilding of the industrial sector

    With proper credit disbursement (printing) of the Ruble minting and printing press, financing at low interest rates can be provided

    This credit can be used to update the industrial sectors of Ukraine to begin to produce polymer wings , electronics and other components to UAC projects

    Zorya mashproekt can produce new diesel engines for USC for projects of the MOD

    Agriculturally, Ukraine can contribute to relief from inflationary pressures on food by increasing the food supply and availability to EEU.

    Yusmazh should be integrated into the space complex as well

    All the best laid plans for Ukraine will be completed because it is a must

    Don't forget the Ukrainian pipeline system. Despite their endless BS, the Eurotrash as still dependent upon Russian hydrocarbons to keep their lights on, and transit fees will now be able to be spent on productive reconstruction ventures rather than feeding the Ukronazi thug legions.

    The Soviet-era shipyards at Nikolayev will also prove to be a boon. Russia has revitalised the Crimean yards, so no reason they can't rescue the big mainland yards from decades of Oligarchic neglect, theft and incompetent management.

    Securing Yuzmash and Yuznoye will be a huge development as these enterprises, coupled with Banderastans nuclear industry (courtesy of Soviet legacy and Western covert assistance) could well have resulted in the Nazis building a long/medium range nuclear strike capability. The future of these enterprises must be a point of zero negotiation. Russia must assert total control in perpetuity, or they must burn the facilities down to the bedrock.

    There are many up-sides to a re-integration of Ukraines MIC into Russia, strictly on Russias terms.

    magnumcromagnon, kvs, Rodion_Romanovic, Broski and Arkanghelsk like this post

    avatar
    limb


    Posts : 704
    Points : 722
    Join date : 2020-09-17

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  limb Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:25 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    limb wrote:I was talking to my Prorussian friend and he thinks Russia's main failure is very bad opsec, the FSB being incompetent and most importantly there being traitors in the Russian armed forces who disclose Russian troop movements to western intelligence who then relay them to Ukraine, allowing them to stage ambushes.

    He believes that FSB is terrible because it hasn't rooted out these traitors before the operation, but in the end this Opera tion is a positive development because it's exposing the activities of those antirussian traitors allowing them to be located and dealt with.

    What do you think? Has the FSB dropped the ball? What can Russia do to prevent Ukrainians from knowing where Russian troops are?

    I'll tell you what I think.  You need to stop talking shit.

    Seriously?  Who fcking cares what average joe shmo thinks or says?  Russians pulled Syria out of the regime-change fire, yet there are legions of ignorant  fuckwitz out there that think the Ruskies are incompetent or their ranks are filled with "traitors"???

    Pfftt...  
    Ukronazis cannot ambush without knowing exatly where russian columns are driving, especially if they lack vehicles to move quickly around the battlefield. Same with aircraft. Without treason, theres no way in hell ukrainian buks can know exactly where to be in order to be in range to successfully destroy SU-34s and Su-25s. Not even NATO radar intell can be able to update constantly the position of russian aircraft and armored columns like that. Like it or not, there must be traitors telling the ukrainian forces when and where to prepare.
    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 1828
    Points : 1830
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:33 pm

    Yes but integration of Ukraine needs to happen at the local/ regional level

    So each of these republics need to be cutoff from each other and integrated into Moscow directly

    It's like Chechnya , the federal center dealt with Chechnya directly.

    It will be the same with federalized Ukraine

    When you deal with a balkanized state , it is must easier to proceed with integration,

    Ukraine can be reconstituted at the supranational level at a later point

    For now it is digestible only in balkanized format

    So independent republics, with economic relations directly to Moscow , and a system of leadership of domestic Ukrainians with Pro Russian views must be established

    Mayor's and Governors and even councils must be strictly pro Russian

    Victory day and the eternal flame, and return to soviet traditions is necessary

    Re education of the youth and showing Ukraine its true success during Soviet Ukraine

    This will be implemented by Moscow at the federal level, the conceptualization of modern Ukraine has already been established, now the implementation is occurring

    magnumcromagnon and Big_Gazza like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 6852
    Points : 6930
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  flamming_python Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:53 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Yes but integration of Ukraine needs to happen at the local/ regional level

    So each of these republics need to be cutoff from each other and integrated into Moscow directly

    It's like Chechnya , the federal center dealt with Chechnya directly.

    It will be the same with federalized Ukraine

    When you deal with a balkanized state , it is must easier to proceed with integration,

    Ukraine can be reconstituted at the supranational level at a later point

    For now it is digestible only in balkanized format

    So independent republics, with economic relations directly to Moscow , and a system of leadership of domestic Ukrainians with Pro Russian views must be established

    Mayor's and Governors and even councils must be strictly pro Russian

    Victory day and the eternal flame, and return to soviet traditions is necessary

    Re education of the youth and showing Ukraine its true success during Soviet Ukraine

    This will be implemented by Moscow at the federal level, the conceptualization of modern Ukraine has already been established, now the implementation is occurring

    This sounds like a plan that will be rejected by the Ukrainian people even in just the south and east of the country

    Actually every plan would be at this point

    What should have happened is that the project of an alternate Ukraine and government should have been publicly declared and formed out of the DNR and LNR, prior to their recognition.

    At this point I don't see any alternative but peace talks, with limited conditions - i.e. just recognition of the Crimea and DNR/LNR.

    I suspect any such peace will be more of a temporary armistice more than anything else, so after such an armistice there should be a co-ordinated mass movement to pressure the governments in both Russia and the Ukraine, as neither is acceptable to the other and neither serves both people's interests.
    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 1828
    Points : 1830
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:55 pm

    Ukrainian people are not the ones making the decision

    Only Victor declares the conditions

    So Moscow will impose federalization on Ukraine

    Ukrainian people are not factored into the decision, the beauties will have to live with it

    Russia will integrate balkanized Ukraine to the EEU

    What you see in melitopol willbe repeated all over the country

    The state building process takes at minimum 5 to 10 years

    So Russia will build modern Ukraine according to achievable timeline

    Whole Russian army is not necessary, only local militias and advisors from Moscow

    d_taddei2, magnumcromagnon, Big_Gazza, Ispan and Hole like this post

    avatar
    Vann7


    Posts : 5353
    Points : 5457
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Vann7 Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:04 am

    wow.. look at this picture..  Shocked

    What was US doing in ukraine , it was infested with bio weapons labs everywhere..


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 1093687652_0:0:1404:768_1440x900_80_0_1_67ac4f516dac269471273791686fedaa.png



    Anyone that thinks that this was done by just scientific noble reasons , is out of touch with reality.
    they virtually transformed Ukraine into a mine field of biological weapons..  this is plain criminal
    what they were doing there , how can any nation not see criminal intent in this bio labs?

    this is a huge major threat to russia , how could russia allow this thing to grow so much is beyond me.  This is what i call a cassus belli for war ..   i don't thin any NATO nation will allow so many bio weapons labs with so many dangerous viruses in one of the world most politically unstable nations .
    US was planning to transform Ukraine into a time bomb of biological and radioactive weapons.
    unbelievable the silence of the European union if this images confirm ,what US was doing in ukraine.

    https://sputniknews.com/20220312/whats-behind-washingtons-denial-of-biowarfare-weapons-programme-in-ukraine-1093810839.html

    if this is not a provocation for war , then what is a provocation then?  this is worse that have a dozen of hiroshima atomic bombs in ukraine ,you could get sick millions of people or provoke a second pandemic with this biolabs.  US literary use bioweapons labs as "mines" to deter russian army from invading ukraine.  will be interesting to know if there was any bio weapon attack on russian soldiers.
    don't think the russian military will admit something like that ,for prevent panic.

    this ukraine conflict could very well provoke a world war 3 , if those labs start unleashing viruses and create a major epidemy of many viruses in ukraine and later the west blame russia for it.

    Still anyone have doubts this biolabs are not a casus belli for declaration of war ?

    all this kiev politicians , need to be bring to a new international court of crimes against humanity.
    russia can't allow a single inch of territory in ukraine disarmed and those labs shut down and investigate what was they really doing there.

    Russia need to create an international world conference and show this findings ,make this information go viral world wide , so the world know what was US military really doing in ukraine , this is criminal ,
    beyond reason , building so many bio labs in so unstable nation ,  will have been no different to do this in afghanistan..  with so many lethal weapons on the streets in the hands of gangs.. could easily
    take control of any viruses of this labs ,and get rid of any security.

    US was preparing to attack russia with biological weapons , according to russia military ,they were testing ways to create viruses ,that only target the slavic race.  Shocked   this is mind blowing information , hopefully russia will properly keep awareness of this in the world ,so that the world knows the criminal activities of ukraine , and the silence of NATO and europe about this.

    if this is not a casus belli for war .. then no idea what is.. this invasion had to be done much earlier.


    even US law proffessor and CIA analyst condemn this actions of the pentagon in ukraine.
    they fall short of declaring the pentagon as terrorist..



    Judging from the incoming reports, it appears that the US carried out bio warfare programmes in Ukraine in violation of the Biological Weapons Convention (BWC) and the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989 (BWATA), according to Francis Boyle, a professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law, who drafted BWATA and has been fighting against the spread of bioweapons since 1983.
    "These bio warfare labs in Ukraine are offensive biological warfare weapons labs that have been set up by the Pentagon to research, develop, test biological weapons", says Boyle. "Yes, that is true. This is what is going on… It violates the BWC and all American citizens who were involved in any of these biological warfare labs in Ukraine violated my Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989 that provides for life in prison. And if you take a look at these biological warfare labs, they have surrounded Russia in different countries there with these offensive biological warfare weapons labs. They have nothing to do with scientific research. This is run by the Pentagon. The Pentagon is interested in warfare and killing people, it's that simple".

    All bioweapons centres in Ukraine have to be secured and decontaminated by Russian professional experts on biological weapons and then rendered permanently inoperable so that they can never be used again for any reason, according to the professor.
    Boyle noted that American neoconservatives, an influential political group Victoria Nuland is tied with, had long flirted with the idea of biological warfare weapons which could target specific genotypes and be used as a "politically useful tool". According to Boyle, the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), a US major neocon think tank, openly discussed that in their manifesto "Rebuilding America's Defenses" (2000), cited by the academic in his book "Biowarfare and Terrorism" (2005).
    "There is no moral or national security justification for this kind of project", says former CIA analyst Larry Johnson, while commenting on the suspected US biowarfare programme in Ukraine. "This now explains, at least to me, why the United States was so insistent on provoking this war with Russia. Covering up a bioweapons program is almost impossible. My country is proving to be an international outlaw"


    still anyone question the need for russia to invade ukraine?
    this had to be done much earlier , if russia knew this , then the invasion should have happened in 2014. This is horrible provocation... basically the pentagon was using this dozens of bio labs as
    deterrence against russia ,so they don't invade , but also as offensive weapons too , because if don't invade ,more bio labs will be made , but also nuclear weapons.. if this is not criminal act of war on russia , then what is? this is truly criminal provocation and the fact that europe have stay silent about this is criminal complicity. No

    they can infest hundred of civilian with different virus in ukraine without them knowing and later sent to russia to different cities so they spread the virus in others. this could explain the rare viruses epidemy that show at siberia at times.. of anthrax. No doubt that washington dc ,planned to destroy russia with biological weapons.. still anyone question that covid19 was a biological weapon? even the us congress told US was funding the modification of viruses in to make them more dangerous.






    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:22 am; edited 4 times in total

    Broski and ucmvulcan like this post


    Sponsored content


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:56 pm