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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:06 am

    Guys I want to call to attention possibly (in military terms)

    One of the most important events of the whole war

    February 25th... first combat use of the S400

    I want to iterate several points

    - interception of Oksanchenkos Su27 took place at recorded distance of 150km

    - this distance of interception is a world record, a first, as a cross border shoot down of a modern fighter jet

    - s400 is combat tested and works very well

    - s400 could do damage to all NATO aircraft at this distance easily, meaning a no fly zone would be impossible to establish

    The main point is, s400 is a deadly weapon system which will down many aircraft.

    When Russian IADS works together it will be a tough nut, maybe impossible to crack or sustain operations trying to engage it

    In fact, such resources would be consumed, at the max range of 400km , that western aircraft over Poland, Romania, and the baltics are already seen and tracked by S400 system

    This should be one of the most worrying facts, known to Amy NATO commander today

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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:08 am

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    Post  Regular Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:16 am

    That's literally what US trying to do in any country they invaded and every single time it fails.

    You kinda need to have people on board with this and not to push external agenda. Recent Taliban take over is literally product of such Nation Building.

    I can't say what Ukraine needs, I have no solutions to this situation, but US methods don't work. Chechen method is too expensive to implement and Ukrainians are not clan based society.
    Most likely this whole conflict will end at negotiating table with Ukraine accepting demands and giving up some territories. Both sides are willing to meet for negotiations and Ukrainians are saying that there are progress there (translation: they are willing to agree to more and more terms daily)

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:19 am

    Regular wrote:That's literally what US trying to do in any country they invaded and every single time it fails.

    You kinda need to have people on board with this and not to push external agenda. Recent Taliban take over is literally product of such Nation Building.

    I can't say what Ukraine needs, I have no solutions to this situation, but US methods don't work. Chechen method is too expensive to implement and Ukrainians are not clan based society.
    Most likely this whole conflict will end at negotiating table with Ukraine accepting demands and giving up some territories. Both sides are willing to meet for negotiations and Ukrainians are saying that there are progress there (translation: they are willing to agree to more and more terms daily)

    Russia integrating balkanized Ukraine to the EEU and US mass murder of Afghanistan is not the same at all

    Russia needs Ukraine to be a functioning entity which is economically productive to the EEU.

    US never gave a shit about Afghanistan and used it to increase drug traffic and to establish logistics point for AFRICOM and PACOM.

    Russia will not follow the American example in state building for reasons I already stated

    Russia will use the historical foundation of Ukraine to build a russian friendly state that is aligned with it at the supra national level

    This is a basic concept of global security and global governance processes

    Look at Russia in Syria

    It has the role of administrator and guarantor of sovereignty, and will play a role in economic reconstruction

    Rome, was not build in 1 day

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    Post  Regular Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:21 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Guys I want to call to attention possibly (in military terms)

    One of the most important events of the whole war

    February 25th... first combat use of the S400

    I want to iterate several points

    - interception of Oksanchenkos Su27 took place at recorded distance of 150km

    - this distance of interception is a world record, a first, as a cross border shoot down of a modern fighter jet

    - s400 is combat tested and works very well

    - s400 could do damage to all NATO aircraft at  this distance easily, meaning a no fly zone would be impossible to establish

    The main point is, s400 is a deadly weapon system which will down many aircraft.

    When Russian IADS works together it will be a tough nut,  maybe impossible to crack or sustain operations trying to engage it

    In fact, such resources would be consumed, at the max range of 400km , that western aircraft over Poland,  Romania, and the baltics are already seen and tracked by S400 system

    This should be one of the most worrying facts, known to Amy NATO commander today

    I wouldn't call Su-27 in Ukrainian air force a modern jet, but still, it's world record shot.

    S400 is really impressive and this definitely caused some US and Nato planners to rethink their plans and maybe rewrite future Wild Weasel operations? We will probably see more SEAD/DEAD shifted approach for NATO air forces and more decoys/drones and other crap being purchased.

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    Post  Vann7 Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:31 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Guys I want to call to attention possibly (in military terms)

    One of the most important events of the whole war

    February 25th... first combat use of the S400

    I want to iterate several points

    - interception of Oksanchenkos Su27 took place at recorded distance of 150km

    - this distance of interception is a world record, a first, as a cross border shoot down of a modern fighter jet

    - s400 is combat tested and works very well

    - s400 could do damage to all NATO aircraft at  this distance easily, meaning a no fly zone would be impossible to establish

    The main point is, s400 is a deadly weapon system which will down many aircraft.

    When Russian IADS works together it will be a tough nut,  maybe impossible to crack or sustain operations trying to engage it

    In fact, such resources would be consumed, at the max range of 400km , that western aircraft over Poland,  Romania, and the baltics are already seen and tracked by S400 system

    This should be one of the most worrying facts, known to Amy NATO commander today

    S-400s are next to useless  dude , they have failed to protect the russian army positions just 40 km away from belarus border from those drones , constantly blowing up russian tanks. highly over rated junk. . russia need laser defenses and electromagnetic weapons and rail guns , things that can't be detected by radar when they hit and destroy a plane.

    if those s-400s were as good as you think , then it will have deter the ukraine airforce from taking
    off with their planes , or even created a true no fly zone for the ukraine airforce and their drones that constantly hammer russian positions. they have been largely useless in the fight in ukraine..
    for some reasons not very good against drones.. or not good enough to keep the ukraine airforce afraid of them.



    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Regular Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:32 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:

    Russia integrating balkanized Ukraine to the EEU and US mass murder of Afghanistan is not the same at all

    Russia needs Ukraine to be a functioning entity which is economically productive to the EEU.

    US never gave a shit about Afghanistan and used it to increase drug traffic and to establish logistics point for AFRICOM and PACOM.

    Russia will not follow the American example in state building for reasons I already stated

    Russia will use the historical foundation of Ukraine to build a russian friendly state that is aligned with it at the supra national level

    This is a basic concept of global security and global governance processes

    Look at Russia in Syria

    It has the role of administrator and guarantor of sovereignty,  and will play a role in economic reconstruction

    Rome, was not build in 1 day

    Didn't you say that no one cares what Ukrainians are thinking, but that was US moto during all of their invasions. They didn't care about local sentiments. Population killing won't happen in Ukraine, but I don't see it going other way.

    Russia doesn't have a good track record when it comes rebuilding - Transistria, Dagestan, Chechnya, South Osetia, Abkhazia... All of them are still on subsidies and are not productive regions and I doubt that there is enough money in the world to rebuild Ukraine. It can't be other way. I think you don't realise how corrupt it is and how all the money invested there simply melts. During 8 years they didn't even manage one step for EU integration and they had insane amounts of money wired to them. Russia won't be able to clear corruption there, not in 10 years that is.

    I think it's naive to change the maps at the moment. After decisive military victories - yes, we can talk. Now, it's just fantasies as we don't even know what the end game is. Publicly stated goals are very conservative.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:34 am

    Regular the list of Ukrainians which will make up the new Ukrainian elite is extensive :

    Yuriy Dudkin
    Renat kuzmin
    Denys Zharkykh
    Ruslan Kotsaba
    Anatoly Burmych
    Volodymyr Skachko
    Dmitry Dzhangirov

    This is but a short list of the new Ukrainian intelligentsia that will support Pro Russian Ukraine

    Because they have no other choice, they will be killed or forever imprisoned if otherwise

    You can hardly compare Ukraine with Dagestan, or abkhazia , South ossetia, or even Chechnya with so much oil

    Ukraine is a literal breadbasket which contains reserves for a huge economy, it just needs to be rebuilt and integrated into Russian structures

    Whatever anyone may think, this was always the goal and destination of Russia

    Russia is a land gathering, people gathering entity and superstructure there is nothing else to say

    Except examine the past history of Russia and you will see its destiny and necessary path


    Last edited by Arkanghelsk on Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Regular Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:37 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    S-400s are next to useless  dude , they have failed to protect the russian army positions just 40 km away from belarus border from those drones , constantly blowing up russian tanks. highly over rated junk. . russia need laser defenses and electromagnetic weapons and rail guns , things that can't be detected by radar when they hit and destroy a plane.


    S400 is not suited for drones.
    Against drones there is definitely a need for some dedicated AA platform as no one in the world can counter these deadly toy planes in a decisive manner. Not UK, not US, not Russia. Plenty of concepts about, SHORAD on paper should be enough, but on tactical level detecting drones is near impossible

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:42 am

    Vann, never in world history was there interception of aircraft at 150km distance

    Your lamentation over some videos of Drones hitting a bmd or a fuel truck, or a t72 is but a drop of water in the operational strategic picture

    Including Russian aviation and ground losses

    The results were simply staggering, at a 1:3 disadvantage, Russia disarmed the Ukrainian war machine , and not by attrition, but by carefully planed military operation

    If anyone has any complaint, please refer to Chinese military operations (they have never happened) and NATO ones

    What you will find,  is that even in modern iterations of NATO intervention like Libya

    Russia still took 50% of the country and natural resources from under the so called NATO "no fly zone" with a group of wagner mercenaries and only mig 29 and su24 aerial support...

    So Russian intervention in Ukraine is by definition a success that was never replicated in modern history

    It is not just a short term intervention,  but a long term commitment to building of the Ukrainian Regional State , as an integrated component of the supranational EEU

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    Post  lancelot Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:45 am

    Vann7 wrote:S-400s are next to useless  dude , they have failed to protect the russian army positions just 40 km away from belarus border from those drones , constantly blowing up russian tanks. highly over rated junk. . russia need laser defenses and electromagnetic weapons and rail guns , things that can't be detected by radar when they hit and destroy a plane.
    S-400 was not designed to engage drones in the first place. It is just too expensive to use for that. It is designed to engage higher flying targets.
    Tor and Pantsir are the ones which have the capability to engage drones and things like that. But Pantsir has some issues against drones which have standoff weapons or drone swarms. Next version of Pantsir should solve this issue.

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    Post  Regular Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:46 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Regular the list of Ukrainians which will make up the new Ukrainian elite is extensive :

    Yuriy Dudkin
    Renat kuzmin
    Denys Zharkykh
    Ruslan Kotsaba
    Anatoly Burmych
    Volodymyr Skachko
    Dmitry Dzhangirov

    This is but a short list of the new Ukrainian intelligentsia that will support Pro Russian Ukraine

    Because they have no other choice, they will be killed or forever imprisoned if otherwise

    You can hardly compare Ukraine with Dagestan, or abkhazia , South ossetia, or even Chechnya with so much oil

    Ukraine is a literal breadbasket which contains reserves for a huge economy, it just needs to be rebuilt and integrated into Russian structures

    Whatever anyone may think, this was always the goal and destination of Russia

    Russia is a land gathering, people gathering entity and superstructure there is nothing else to say

    Except examine the past history of Russia and you will see its destiny and necessary path

    We will see, forgive me for being pessimistic, but I never had  high hopes for Ukraine, no matter who takes them under their wing. I've met plenty of Ukrainians who are the same.. constant "peremoha" and then "zrada"... No matter who is in the Elite, they will still be playing same games.
    You guys view them as nazis and I who had a chance to live in Ukraine view them as some gypsies. (Never met people who are happy to have kingpins, oligarchs in the open and vote for them again and again)

    I will leave it to smarter people than me to deal with, but it's a trainwreck and I hope it will be over soon.

    Interesting times are only beginning and the big war will be fought on economic stage.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:51 am

    Regular, "peremoha" and "zrada" are the byproduct of a decrepit educational system which created a reserve of brain dead people and leaders.

    Change the education, and you change Ukraine, the very same as Russia.

    You are right in the estimate that the big picture is economic

    Which is precisely why Russia must build at the supranational level

    There is no way Russia will bet on the SCO and the BRI as being its only saving grace, the future of Russia is not at all hinging on the decisions made in Beijing

    Same goes for the EU and double that for the US

    Russia cannot be junior partner to any supranational body or entity

    Russia is a superpower, and it must create its own supranational governing bodies, and integrated economic system and subsystems to govern Belarus, Ukraine,  The central Asian states, and at some point Moldova

    The nature of the economy is changing, the elites are already reorienting

    There is no other way!

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    Post  Regular Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:56 am

    lancelot wrote:Tor and Pantsir are the ones which have the capability to engage drones and things like that. But Pantsir has some issues against drones which have standoff weapons or drone swarms. Next version of Pantsir should solve this issue.

    Apart from protection from swarm attacks Pantsir won't be changed that much as we might see various versions of Derivatsiya-PVO instead. Maybe wheeled version to supplement it? I wonder what are the developments in sensory suits, this is the most important thing when detecting UAV

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    Post  Krepost Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:08 am

    Consider this:

    - Russia is main exporter of wheat, grains and sunflower oil
    - Ukraine also is a main exporter of the above
    - Kazakhstan is also an exporter of the above
    - Combined, the export from these 3 countries constitute a big chunk of the global trade for these essential foodstuff
    - Guess who are the main buyers of the above goods: Middle East countries, Pakistan, Turkey etc.
    - No wonder these countries are not applying sanctions on Russia

    Now, do you want to talk about coal exports? how about steel exports?
    You are getting the idea.

    Ukraine has a lot of valuable potential for Russia's benefit.
    How Ukraine is handled and managed post-capitulation is very important.
    I don't know what the Russian plans are, but I am sure they are far more elaborate compared to the US post-Iraq invasion or post Afghanistan invasion plans.

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    Post  Krepost Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:17 am

    The Russian military demined the ship of the Ukrainian Navy "Koreets" at the pier of Berdyansk

    The military ship with the legendary name was hastily abandoned by the Ukrainian military with a large amount of small arms, ammunition, heavy machine guns, explosives and signal mines. The sappers took all the necessary measures to prevent a possible explosion on the mines that the enemy could leave.

    https://t.me/RVvoenkor

    Edit: The Koreets is a Ukrainian Navy tugboat.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 21 14-10510

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    Post  Krepost Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:24 am

    A photo of the Ukrainian rescue ship "Saphire" that was seized and brought to Sevastopol.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 21 12-10510

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    Post  mnztr Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:27 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:Guys I want to call to attention possibly (in military terms)

    One of the most important events of the whole war

    February 25th... first combat use of the S400

    I want to iterate several points

    - interception of Oksanchenkos Su27 took place at recorded distance of 150km

    - this distance of interception is a world record, a first, as a cross border shoot down of a modern fighter jet

    - s400 is combat tested and works very well

    - s400 could do damage to all NATO aircraft at  this distance easily, meaning a no fly zone would be impossible to establish

    The main point is, s400 is a deadly weapon system which will down many aircraft.

    When Russian IADS works together it will be a tough nut,  maybe impossible to crack or sustain operations trying to engage it

    In fact, such resources would be consumed, at the max range of 400km , that western aircraft over Poland,  Romania, and the baltics are already seen and tracked by S400 system

    This should be one of the most worrying facts, known to Amy NATO commander today

    S-400s are next to useless  dude , they have failed to protect the russian army positions just 40 km away from belarus border from those drones , constantly blowing up russian tanks. highly over rated junk. . russia need laser defenses and electromagnetic weapons and rail guns , things that can't be detected by radar when they hit and destroy a plane.

    if those s-400s were as good as you think , then it will have deter the ukraine airforce from taking
    off with their planes , or even created a true no fly zone for the ukraine airforce and their drones that constantly hammer russian positions.  they have been largely useless in the fight in ukraine..
    for some reasons not very good against drones..  or not good enough to keep the ukraine airforce afraid of them.


    You can't economically shoot down drones with an S400. I S400 probably costs as much as 3 Turkish drone. I can see eventually that drones will be taken out by loitering suicide drones, the ground force would just launch 3-4 suicide drones that will go after any airborne targets within a certain radius of the column.

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    Post  mnztr Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:29 am

    Krepost wrote:Consider this:

    - Russia is main exporter of wheat, grains and sunflower oil
    - Ukraine also is a main exporter of the above
    - Kazakhstan is also an exporter of the above
    - Combined, the export from these 3 countries constitute a big chunk of the global trade for these essential foodstuff
    - Guess who are the main buyers of the above goods: Middle East countries, Pakistan, Turkey etc.
    - No wonder these countries are not applying sanctions on Russia

    Now, do you want to talk about coal exports? how about steel exports?
    You are getting the idea.

    Ukraine has a lot of valuable potential for Russia's benefit.
    How Ukraine is handled and managed post-capitulation is very important.
    I don't know what the Russian plans are, but I am sure they are far more elaborate compared to the US post-Iraq invasion or post Afghanistan invasion plans.


    One thing is for sure they will not be stupid enough to fire the Ukrainian army. They will be screened and the ones that pass will get a big raise to stay on.

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    Post  Krepost Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:34 am

    During the 16 days of the current conflict, attack drones from both sides contributed to less than 1% of the total damage to the ground troops.
    Please stop talking about drones as they are the Gods of war. They simply are not. They are very valuable in certain situations and in certain types of conflicts. Not this one.

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    Post  mnrck Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:49 am

    Krepost wrote:During the 16 days of the current conflict, attack drones from both sides contributed to less than 1% of the total damage to the ground troops.
    Please stop talking about drones as they are the Gods of war. They simply are not. They are very valuable in certain situations and in certain types of conflicts. Not this one.
    But they can provide videos for showing on twatter/fakebook. And people are living on those illusionverses.

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    Post  jon_deluxe Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:51 am

    Absolute must read thread from a Redditor who was right there when the foreign legion base was attacked:



    This is what happens when they believe their own propaganda machine + see themselves as saviours.



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    Post  Rasisuki Nebia Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:25 am

    "Unfair fight"... what were they even thinking to begin with, they're gonna shoot at an enemy with no Airforce or artillery like in Call of duty?
    Morons and imbeciles, i'm sad they fled to Poland instead of dying to cruise missiles...

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    Post  RTN Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:44 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Yes, please. So Russia can bomb them too
    And why doesn't Russia call you back you son of a bitch? Coz they know you are just that a little, lying piece of shit.
    lyle6
    lyle6


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

    Post  lyle6 Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:48 am

    Rasisuki Nebia wrote:"Unfair fight"... what were they even thinking to begin with, they're gonna shoot at an enemy with no Airforce or artillery like in Call of duty?
    Morons and imbeciles, i'm sad they fled to Poland instead of dying to cruise missiles...
    Their definition of a fair fight is hunting dirt-poor farmers and harassing villages with bombs that exceed the GDP of that village several times over.
    **** em.

    psg, flamming_python, Werewolf, magnumcromagnon, Big_Gazza, kvs, auslander and like this post


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

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