Russian special military operation in Ukraine #3

EkErilaz wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:

Yugo90 wrote:Are Stinger AA missiles any danger for Russian aircraft? Or just for helicopters...

Aircraft will easily fly above the height of a stinger, and a stinger can't shoot down iskander, smerch, Grad, TOS, or artillery shells. It might force Helis out of the way but nothing else. Let me hope Helis are equipped with president S etc etc

It is true that airplanes easily operate above 3000 to 3500 meters. But at that altitude they are not very efficient in current circumstances. Russia still lags a bit behind in deploying FLIR pods or similar in large numbers, and even if they had large numbers the weather have not been good for operations at that altitude. Even a FLIRpod can't see thru clouds, and if you need to get below a +-2000 feet cloud cover or partial cloud cover you will be in threat of stingers. This is why we have been able to see the ukrainian drones working at such low level, but i also suspect russia AD is a major reason. Another reason for not operating at medium altitude is that you are vulnerable to still alive ukrainian medium to long range SAMs.  if i had to guess how they are currently used and deployed it would be something like this: The few BUKs, OSAs, and maybe even S-300 that are still alive are kept hidden and turned off at all times. US/NATO AWACS at polish border keep track of russian planes, and share the intel with Ukrainian AD headquarters via secure coms established before the conflict. As russian planes cross into engagement envelope the awacs deliver bering range and altitude, the radars go on, acquire targets, shoot, turn off radar as soon as hit or miss is confirmed, and immediately relocate to next prepared hide before russian kalibers, arrive.

GPS guided munitions are not impacted by cloud cover, also Laser guided munitions guided by spetznaz won't be impacted either. Stingers and other AD systems will most likely be around cities and key areas so Russia should be able to predict where they will be located so will understand how to avoid and protect themselves. And the use of anti radiation missiles should make using S-300 redundant.

Macron is dreaming it won't happen.
And as for Zelensky he's on cloud cuckoo land. Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Vietnam are still waiting for the west and USA to to rebuild their countries. I think zelensky has been smoking the same crack pipe as Biden and Boris.

Updates

1) Russian forces have control of Kherson regional administration: Governor

2) The European Union must move towards the creation of an EU army after Vladmir Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Emmanuel Macron has said.

3) Heavy shelling and explosions in the city of Chernihiv in northern Ukraine

4) Adviser to Ukraine's interior minister says Mariupol is surrounded by Russian forces

5) Lavrov: We will not allow Ukraine to maintain a military infrastructure that threatens Russia's security

6) Zelenskyy: When this war finishes Russia will be paying for decades reparation's to Ukraine to rebuild what its invasion has destroyed

7)Ukrainian forces abandoned 1 T-84U tank, 1 BTR-60, 1 BRDM-2 and 1 truck in Novoaidar

d_taddei2 wrote:Macron is dreaming it won't happen.
And as for Zelensky he's on cloud cuckoo land. Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Vietnam are still waiting for the west and USA to to rebuild their countries. I think zelensky has been smoking the same crack pipe as Biden and Boris.  

Updates

1) Russian forces have control of Kherson regional administration: Governor

2) The European Union must move towards the creation of an EU army after Vladmir Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Emmanuel Macron has said.

3) Heavy shelling and explosions in the city of Chernihiv in northern Ukraine

4) Adviser to Ukraine's interior minister says Mariupol is surrounded by Russian forces

5) Lavrov: We will not allow Ukraine to maintain a military infrastructure that threatens Russia's security

6) Zelenskyy: When this war finishes Russia will be paying for decades reparation's to Ukraine to rebuild what its invasion has destroyed

7)Ukrainian forces abandoned 1 T-84U tank, 1 BTR-60, 1 BRDM-2 and 1 truck in Novoaidar

Didn't Macron pack up his troops and ran from Mali recently since Mali requested russias help?

Lol

Add to what Airbornwolf said in his experience, doesn't sound like the EU is all that united nor their troops like each other.

I think the Russian leadership should start considering creating plants for special ops by the SVR to target and eliminate Ukranian leadership outside Ukranian soil. It's not out of the realm that these clowns will not agree to Russian demands even when imposed with practical defeat and losing defacto control of much of Ukraine....instead leading a government in exile, via Poland, allowing for the continuation of the war as an urban, terrorist resistance, and making decisions on "Ukraine's name and on its behalf".

Hope that decision is currently being made right now to not play into American/British games.... having a Guaido running around. Take enough of the snakes out, and eventually, due to no political process available to replace them the resistance will become ineffective due to leadership illegitimacy (lack there of). Neither Poles nor Americans can lay claim to legitimate power in Kiev. Zelensky and his clownship can. Erase those, who're the anglo saxons going to work with since Russia disrupted Ukraine's political apparatus for choosing leadership and kicked them out? Nobody of significance except rabid dogs nobody in Ukraine at large knows about.

This is war. No time for half measures and soft hands .... "what will the Americans or Poles say?" Who gives a shit.

Take out the rats and in doing so you take the cards away from your enemies....... and you'll get rid of many headaches. It's a simple equation. The question is, is there the political will and creativity in fighting this fight... no matter what it takes?

d_taddei2 wrote:

EkErilaz wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:

Yugo90 wrote:Are Stinger AA missiles any danger for Russian aircraft? Or just for helicopters...

Aircraft will easily fly above the height of a stinger, and a stinger can't shoot down iskander, smerch, Grad, TOS, or artillery shells. It might force Helis out of the way but nothing else. Let me hope Helis are equipped with president S etc etc

It is true that airplanes easily operate above 3000 to 3500 meters. But at that altitude they are not very efficient in current circumstances. Russia still lags a bit behind in deploying FLIR pods or similar in large numbers, and even if they had large numbers the weather have not been good for operations at that altitude. Even a FLIRpod can't see thru clouds, and if you need to get below a +-2000 feet cloud cover or partial cloud cover you will be in threat of stingers. This is why we have been able to see the ukrainian drones working at such low level, but i also suspect russia AD is a major reason. Another reason for not operating at medium altitude is that you are vulnerable to still alive ukrainian medium to long range SAMs.  if i had to guess how they are currently used and deployed it would be something like this: The few BUKs, OSAs, and maybe even S-300 that are still alive are kept hidden and turned off at all times. US/NATO AWACS at polish border keep track of russian planes, and share the intel with Ukrainian AD headquarters via secure coms established before the conflict. As russian planes cross into engagement envelope the awacs deliver bering range and altitude, the radars go on, acquire targets, shoot, turn off radar as soon as hit or miss is confirmed, and immediately relocate to next prepared hide before russian kalibers, arrive.

GPS guided munitions are not impacted by cloud cover, also Laser guided munitions guided by spetznaz won't be impacted either. Stingers and other AD systems will most likely be around cities and key areas so Russia should be able to predict where they will be located so will understand how to avoid and protect themselves. And the use of anti radiation missiles should make using S-300 redundant.

I agree all these things work, and are most likely being done already. However, even when NATO go to a major war only a fraction of the munissions used are of that type. The shiny stuff will be saved for special occasions like when SSO locate a really juicy target that will impact the fight in a major way. For the grunts at the front russian CAS doctrine still use 80mm rockets and FAB-250and the occasional guided missile. Just because an item is in the Russian inventory does not mean that it is everywhere and used by all units all the time.

ATLASCUB wrote:I think the Russian leadership should start considering creating plants for special ops by the SVR to target and eliminate Ukranian leadership outside Ukranian soil. It's not out of the realm that these clowns will not agree to Russian demands even when imposed with practical defeat and losing defacto control of much of Ukraine....instead leading a government in exile, via Poland, allowing for the continuation of the war as an urban, terrorist resistance, and making decisions on "Ukraine's name".

Hope that decision is currently being made right now to not play in American games, having a Guaido running around. Take enough of the snakes out, and eventually, due to no political process available to replace them the resistance will become ineffective due to leadership illegitimacy (lack there of). Neither Poles nor Americans can laid claim to legitimate power in Kiev. Zelensky and his clownship can.

Would be stupid.

They let Sakashvili live and he ended like a clown.

What they need to get ride of Zalensky is show how he sold ukraine to USA then he will loose its support, domestic and from outside.

My guess is at the end of this, the remaining government of Ukraine will end up in Lviv and rule their fiefdom over there. And that is when a lot of crap will come out but Poland will protect them. Eastern Ukraine will possibly be it's own thing.

Mariupol


Odessa


Chechens talking to people

Would be stupid.

They let Sakashvili live and he ended like a clown.

What they need to get ride of Zalensky is show how he sold ukraine to USA then he will loose its support, domestic and from outside.

That's assuming someone will be willing to replace Zelensky that doesn't amount to an evident Russian puppet, lay claim to power, and be dully supported. The U.S learned their lesson with the tie eater, and innovated with Guaido.

You're also assuming that there is a positive, hearts and mind propaganda effect of allowing Zelensky alive to make decisions on Ukraine's behalf while abroad, exacerbating the conflict, costing civilian, and both ukranian and russian military lives. Considering the complete defeat of Russia in the information war up to this point, you're overestimating the capacity of Russia to shape hearts and minds with deeds.... specially ones that need to be explained to the millions of sheeple who will continue to see Zelensky as the legitimate president of Ukraine, residing in Poland or elsewhere.

No. It's not stupid, specially when said leadership vacates Ukranian soil in order to avoid capture and accountability with the goal of further lengthening the bloody conflict through extraterritorial exercise of power.

It's actually irresponsible to not take him out, and make every effort to do so. The idea that Zelensky as a martyr will have a greater impact for Ukranian resistance than alive is a massive load of horseshit. Without Zelensky as a vessel for the Americans/UK to edict on Ukraine's behalf, they have little to work with for legitimate power. You can't easily replace men of significance or value, and people quickly forget when they're gone. He's gonna be as much a martyr as Bandera, a cult figure of ukranian nazism.

Schastie (?)

EkErilaz wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:

EkErilaz wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:

Yugo90 wrote:Are Stinger AA missiles any danger for Russian aircraft? Or just for helicopters...

Aircraft will easily fly above the height of a stinger, and a stinger can't shoot down iskander, smerch, Grad, TOS, or artillery shells. It might force Helis out of the way but nothing else. Let me hope Helis are equipped with president S etc etc

It is true that airplanes easily operate above 3000 to 3500 meters. But at that altitude they are not very efficient in current circumstances. Russia still lags a bit behind in deploying FLIR pods or similar in large numbers, and even if they had large numbers the weather have not been good for operations at that altitude. Even a FLIRpod can't see thru clouds, and if you need to get below a +-2000 feet cloud cover or partial cloud cover you will be in threat of stingers. This is why we have been able to see the ukrainian drones working at such low level, but i also suspect russia AD is a major reason. Another reason for not operating at medium altitude is that you are vulnerable to still alive ukrainian medium to long range SAMs.  if i had to guess how they are currently used and deployed it would be something like this: The few BUKs, OSAs, and maybe even S-300 that are still alive are kept hidden and turned off at all times. US/NATO AWACS at polish border keep track of russian planes, and share the intel with Ukrainian AD headquarters via secure coms established before the conflict. As russian planes cross into engagement envelope the awacs deliver bering range and altitude, the radars go on, acquire targets, shoot, turn off radar as soon as hit or miss is confirmed, and immediately relocate to next prepared hide before russian kalibers, arrive.

GPS guided munitions are not impacted by cloud cover, also Laser guided munitions guided by spetznaz won't be impacted either. Stingers and other AD systems will most likely be around cities and key areas so Russia should be able to predict where they will be located so will understand how to avoid and protect themselves. And the use of anti radiation missiles should make using S-300 redundant.

I agree all these things work, and are most likely being done already. However, even when NATO go to a major war only a fraction of the munissions used are of that type. The shiny stuff will be saved for special occasions like when SSO locate a really juicy target that will impact the fight in a major way. For the grunts at the front russian doctrine still use 80mm rockers and FAB-250and the ocational guided missile. Just because an item is in the Russian inventory does not mean that it is everywhere and used by all units all the time.

Bear in mind u don't always have to use aircraft to deliver strikes, Smerch, iskander, etc, and add to this guided mortars 120mm-240mm, and artillery 122mm, 152mm, and 203mm can neutralise enemy positions and buildings in areas of heavy AD. And these are far cheaper than guided missiles.

d_taddei2 wrote:

EkErilaz wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:

EkErilaz wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:

Yugo90 wrote:Are Stinger AA missiles any danger for Russian aircraft? Or just for helicopters...

Aircraft will easily fly above the height of a stinger, and a stinger can't shoot down iskander, smerch, Grad, TOS, or artillery shells. It might force Helis out of the way but nothing else. Let me hope Helis are equipped with president S etc etc

It is true that airplanes easily operate above 3000 to 3500 meters. But at that altitude they are not very efficient in current circumstances. Russia still lags a bit behind in deploying FLIR pods or similar in large numbers, and even if they had large numbers the weather have not been good for operations at that altitude. Even a FLIRpod can't see thru clouds, and if you need to get below a +-2000 feet cloud cover or partial cloud cover you will be in threat of stingers. This is why we have been able to see the ukrainian drones working at such low level, but i also suspect russia AD is a major reason. Another reason for not operating at medium altitude is that you are vulnerable to still alive ukrainian medium to long range SAMs.  if i had to guess how they are currently used and deployed it would be something like this: The few BUKs, OSAs, and maybe even S-300 that are still alive are kept hidden and turned off at all times. US/NATO AWACS at polish border keep track of russian planes, and share the intel with Ukrainian AD headquarters via secure coms established before the conflict. As russian planes cross into engagement envelope the awacs deliver bering range and altitude, the radars go on, acquire targets, shoot, turn off radar as soon as hit or miss is confirmed, and immediately relocate to next prepared hide before russian kalibers, arrive.

GPS guided munitions are not impacted by cloud cover, also Laser guided munitions guided by spetznaz won't be impacted either. Stingers and other AD systems will most likely be around cities and key areas so Russia should be able to predict where they will be located so will understand how to avoid and protect themselves. And the use of anti radiation missiles should make using S-300 redundant.

I agree all these things work, and are most likely being done already. However, even when NATO go to a major war only a fraction of the munissions used are of that type. The shiny stuff will be saved for special occasions like when SSO locate a really juicy target that will impact the fight in a major way. For the grunts at the front russian doctrine still use 80mm rockers and FAB-250and the ocational guided missile. Just because an item is in the Russian inventory does not mean that it is everywhere and used by all units all the time.

Bear in mind u don't always have to use aircraft to deliver strikes, Smerch, iskander, etc, and add to this guided mortars 120mm-240mm, and artillery 122mm, 152mm, and 203mm can neutralise enemy positions and buildings in areas of heavy AD. And these are far cheaper than guided missiles.

yes, and that is the reason i think we do not see much CAS. Russian/soviet doctrine loves artillery, and with the amount i have seen used I bet a year salary that many many ukrainian commandes now understand why artillery earned the nickname  "god of war", and "the final argument of kings".

While I respect the two Alex's, I feel they are very nieve to a degree.  They think that somehow, some kind of negotiations with Ukraine will amount to anything. The Russians outright said that they just break every agreement regardless what's written.  So why would they come to any agreement now?

It's the same, negotiate and then break it all later and flood Ukraine with nato soldiers. They are very silly with their beliefs.

Regular wrote:Both sides spread bullshit, you have to be infantile to think otherwise. Media war Russia is fighting is not directed towards Western Audiences

BS. The NATzO-Ukr side is spewing pure shit. The other side, from all the telegram channels I track is NOT.

miketheterrible wrote:

While I respect the two Alex's, I feel they are very nieve to a degree.  They think that somehow, some kind of negotiations with Ukraine will amount to anything. The Russians outright said that they just break every agreement regardless what's written.  So why would they come to any agreement now?

It's the same, negotiate and then break it all later and flood Ukraine with nato soldiers.

I think The russians know to there is no deal to be made.
I think it is all about optics, Russia wants to be able to say years from now, look we gave them 3,4,5,6,10 chances to end the war, but sadly the refused all of our offers.
Russia do not understand the level of brainwashing in the west, that it will not mean anything to people here, history will be written that is was all false promises to kill even more ukrainians, and eat their children.
Maybe it is aimed at the countries that abstained in the UN vote and at allies.

Russia wants Zelensky to defacto legitimize Russia's operation by agreeing to some demands and thus clean up the mess for the Russians - thus fullfilling the non-occupation aspect of the current "promise" by Putin.

I don't think it's gonna happen cause I can see through it, and the Americans can absolutely see through it as well, which means Zelensky and clan are well aware......

Obviously the Russians will try, in many ways, to get that deal done to avoid the American traps trying to lengthen this operation and forcing it to morph into an occupation, which will lead to urban resistance with a government in exile which will make it very difficult for fresh national elections and referendums to take place with an the aura of legitimacy around them.

That's why Mr. Puppet and some officials in line of succession should have a timer on their foreheads with an X. Break the chain of top leadership, and then new leadership will have to arise anew forcefully.... new election processes of which Russia will be able to influence, with fresh folk to "negotiate" with.

Why should the comedian want the job back anyway under Russian conditions? He got his millions already. Unless Zelensky can come back as a vessel puppet to get Ukraine into the European Union and skim off the subsidies why should he agree to some Russian deal on neutrality or other BS that impedes this?

Unless Russia offers a sizeable number in the tens of billions for "reconstruction, aid, gas transit extension etc".... which these clowns will use to skim off the top to enrich themselves there is nothing compelling them to agree to terms.

Biggest con is folks here believing these people give two shits about Ukraine or its people, and making arguments assuming such. The only thing these folks are doing is fighting and negotiating for the interests of the Ukranian oligarchs who stand to lose their golden goose if they're too greedy.... and balance that out with American demands which are the new sugar daddies.

EkErilaz wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

While I respect the two Alex's, I feel they are very nieve to a degree.  They think that somehow, some kind of negotiations with Ukraine will amount to anything. The Russians outright said that they just break every agreement regardless what's written.  So why would they come to any agreement now?

It's the same, negotiate and then break it all later and flood Ukraine with nato soldiers.

I think The russians know to there is no deal to be made.
I think it is all about optics, Russia wants to be able to say years from now, look we gave them 3,4,5,6,10 chances to end the war, but sadly the refused all of our offers.
Russia do not understand the level of brainwashing in the west, that it will not mean anything to people here, history will be written that is was all false promises to kill even more ukrainians, and eat their children.
Maybe it is aimed at the countries that abstained in the UN vote and at allies.

Exactly.

Lavrov pointed out that Zelensky took his cue to declare that Ukraine will develop nuclear weapons from NATzO clowns
such as Stoltenberg. There was a clear progression of implied threats of nuclear war. Zelensky does not take a shit
without NATzO instructions.

miketheterrible wrote:

Exactly.

Putin has told Macron in a phone call that delaying tactics by the Kiev regime in its "negotiations" will bring more demands from the Russian
side.

Point 4 lambs to the slaughter. U have to laugh in the past when foreigners went off to fight they were classed as terrorists and their citizenship was taken away. Ukraine will have to ask EU countries to send them 16,000 additional body bags.


Updates

1) Putin and Macron held a third phone call since the beginning of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Putin told Macron that the tasks of the Russian military will be fulfilled "no matter what," according to Kremlin

2) Ukraine confirms peace talks with Russia today, on March 3. A member of the Ukrainian delegation, lawmaker David Arakhamia, said that Ukraine is looking to at least agree on humanitarian corridors

3) White House is asking Congress for $10 billion in emergency funding to boost its response to invasion of Ukraine—money that will be used to address humanitarian crisis as well as assist its defense against Russia

4) The first of 16,000 foreign volunteers are ready to defend Ukraine, said the President of Ukraine. Earlier, The Minister for Foreign Affairs Kuleba said that the volunteers came from 16 countries, including Great Britain, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Israel and others

Looks like the Odessa operation will start soon. Several landing ships have left Crimean ports and Russian aircraft are operating
over Odessa and its surroundings.

well Ukraine might be mining water near Odessa

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10573541/Estonian-cargo-ship-SINKS-hitting-Ukraine-coast-near-Odessa.html



Which maybe reason why Civilian vessels cannot really escape. and Odessa beach also been mined too.

d_taddei2 wrote:Point 4 lambs to the slaughter. U have to laugh in the past when foreigners went off to fight they were classed as terrorists and their citizenship was taken away. Ukraine will have to ask EU countries to send them 16,000 additional body bags.


Updates

1) Putin and Macron held a third phone call since the beginning of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Putin told Macron that the tasks of the Russian military will be fulfilled "no matter what," according to Kremlin

2) Ukraine confirms peace talks with Russia today, on March 3. A member of the Ukrainian delegation, lawmaker David Arakhamia, said that Ukraine is looking to at least agree on humanitarian corridors

3) White House is asking Congress for $10 billion in emergency funding to boost its response to invasion of Ukraine—money that will be used to address humanitarian crisis as well as assist its defense against Russia

4) The first of 16,000 foreign volunteers are ready to defend Ukraine, said the President of Ukraine. Earlier, The Minister for Foreign Affairs Kuleba said that the volunteers came from 16 countries, including Great Britain, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Israel and others

Guess these nations are trying to kinda reduce probably criminal population numbers by sending them to the slaughter house.

miketheterrible wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:Point 4 lambs to the slaughter. U have to laugh in the past when foreigners went off to fight they were classed as terrorists and their citizenship was taken away. Ukraine will have to ask EU countries to send them 16,000 additional body bags.


Updates

1) Putin and Macron held a third phone call since the beginning of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Putin told Macron that the tasks of the Russian military will be fulfilled "no matter what," according to Kremlin

2) Ukraine confirms peace talks with Russia today, on March 3. A member of the Ukrainian delegation, lawmaker David Arakhamia, said that Ukraine is looking to at least agree on humanitarian corridors

3) White House is asking Congress for $10 billion in emergency funding to boost its response to invasion of Ukraine—money that will be used to address humanitarian crisis as well as assist its defense against Russia

4) The first of 16,000 foreign volunteers are ready to defend Ukraine, said the President of Ukraine. Earlier, The Minister for Foreign Affairs Kuleba said that the volunteers came from 16 countries, including Great Britain, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Israel and others

Guess these nations are trying to kinda reduce probably criminal population numbers by sending them to the slaughter house.

And dumb idiots and those who think they are Rambo