The Situation in the Ukraine. #32

Not a very good map, sorry. There is a second explosion, could be a petrol station.


Spriter
@spriter99880
·
14m
The part where the explosion took place is part of the Druzba pipeline network. One of the largest gas supply networks in the world passes through Lugansk

Intelsky
@Intel_sky
·
34m
UPDATE - The Druzhba gas pipeline is on fire in Luhansk, eastern Ukraine after a powerful explosion - RIA reports

Ukraine War Report@UkrWarReport·47m

Initial unconfirmed reports that a gas pipeline exploded in rebel-held Luhansk area.

If true it will oblige europe to accept north stream 2. They have no choice anymore since this one won't be repaired. That will also make them go easy on sanction if they don't want to have some delays through even north stream 2.

IMO Russia could attack tommorow.

There is no hope for talks. Diplomacy totally failed.

ALAMO wrote:

bitcointrader70 wrote:
I’m Russian idiot.

That makes sense.

He's technically an ethnic mental-midget. He's as much Russian as I'm a Martian!

JohninMK wrote:Not a very good map, sorry. There is a second explosion, could be a petrol station.


Spriter
@spriter99880
·
14m
The part where the explosion took place is part of the Druzba pipeline network. One of the largest gas supply networks in the world passes through Lugansk

Intelsky
@Intel_sky
·
34m
UPDATE - The Druzhba gas pipeline is on fire in Luhansk, eastern Ukraine after a powerful explosion - RIA reports

Ukraine War Report@UkrWarReport·47m

Initial unconfirmed reports that a gas pipeline exploded in rebel-held Luhansk area.

We will have to wait for more information.

I don't see what the Novorossiyan forces gain from blowing this pipeline but we should wait for more information.

bitcointrader70 wrote:Russia’s soft power over Europe is selling oil/gas/energy/natural resources. Other than that no ones want any of Russian crap. Ever heard of anyone wanting a Russian smartphone? How about a computer? How about an automobile? How about even clothes?

Nope I don’t think so.

You are Russian but clearly have received the Anglo brainwashing.

Oil and gas make up more of Canada and Norway's GDP than it does of Russia's GDP. But that is never passed along in the media. Every country plays to its relative strengths and trades its surpluses.

Yandex is the biggest tech startup in all of Europe. According to Wiki, Kaspersky is the biggest antivirus in Europe. Nginx was the 3rd biggest internet server in the world before it was bought out by a US company. Telegram is getting pretty big. 5th in the world.

But yeah. Its as if none of this exists at all.

Isos wrote:There is no hope for talks. Diplomacy totally failed.

Russians tried diplomacy.  They talked to the American'ts.  In response, the Murkans did their usual - talked at the Russians, and past the Russians, but never to the Russians.

If Ukopistan attacks, Russia can adequately respond without having to send a single uniformed soldier across the border.  Long range arty and MLRS conduct deep strikes into the enemy rear to target their supplies & logistics, troop concentrations and arty positions.  Russia establishes air superiority and after making examples of whatever rag-tag Soviet-era air-frames the enemy manages to throw airborne, its then a free-for-all CAS action to support DPR/LPP ground units.

Murkan propaganda about "Russian invasion" is intended to give cover to the Ukronazis when they finally get their shit together and launch an offensive.  Western MSM nations will spin the inevitable Russian response as "aggression" or "invasion", and these corrupt sock puppets will sit back smugly and lecture all and sundry "we told you so".  Needless to say, our feckless MSM scribblers will happily act as cheerleaders for fascist aggression and will celebrate as people are killed in their latest engineered atrocity.

NATOstani plotters think they will engineer "Krajina 2".   On the contrary, they will learn the harsh lesson that was handed to Saakashvilli in 2008.  Don't fck with the Bear in his own den.

miketheterrible wrote:Yeah, seriously, start removing these morons Garry. You are just allowing these threads to be filled with retards and lack of contribution besides their diarrhea

@ mike/@general readers, There is dialogue, and there is just spouting absolute bullshit...
Or projectile Diarrea.......

Done by users here that never, ever served a day in their lives.
Have no first hand experience about how an millitary works.

That type away happily behind their keyboards. Completely safe regardless of what plays out in the Ukraine.
Fueled by some sense they are right, and be damned the people that get hurt in an millitary conflict.

And no offense to anyone, it goes for both sides.
The ones advocating for Russia to intervene in Ukraine.
And especially the pro-NATO members on here.

It is NATO's goal to draw Russia into an War with Ukraine.
Any conflict will drain Russian manpower and resources if it gets engaged there.
Ukraine is an zombie nation kept alive by the IMF and NATO.
For Russia, its the best thing to let NATO choke on Ukraine.

NATO?. it serves as the slaves for the U.S to command. It is not an defensive alliance, The last decades it never served as an Defensive Alliance.
It always have been an tool to smash other nations infrastructure to bits and leave it in ruins afterwards.
Do not even try to defend that glass NATO HQ in Brussels, i worked for ten years in NATO. i know exactly how they work.
I worked in Afghanistan alongside russian private millitary logistical company's in order to keep the NATO war going.
Everyone seems to forget that Russia saved NATO's Logistical asses in Afghanistan everytime when NATO starts badmouthing russia again.

NATO is full of "yes-men" that nowadays dance to the tunes of whatever order comes out of Washington.
On one hand, completely millitarily incompetent. Sadly on the other hand, highly dangerous as they are not millitary proffesionals that know what they are doing.
They have been Amateurs for the past 12 years.
Over-reaction or over-escalation is easily made.

Nobody knows what is really going on in the LPR and DPR. signs are not good anyway.
Before anyone here goes further in conflict-encouraging language.
perhaps stop and consider that when the shooting starts, People pay the price for that in blood and their lives.

That said, i know how the internet is. and propably my words end up on deaf ears.
But at least i stated my toughts right? .

i honestly hope for the people living there in the LPR and DPR things do not escalate further.
And that they get a chance to live peacefully and get to live life without some artillery shell comming in at their kids.

Everyone should have that chance.

Of course things are highly tense, and highly complicated at the moment.
Signs do not look good at this moment.
Nobody has an glass orb how things will play out from now.

Big_Gazza wrote:

Isos wrote:There is no hope for talks. Diplomacy totally failed.

Russians tried diplomacy.  They talked to the American'ts.  In response, the Murkans did their usual - talked at the Russians, and past the Russians, but never to the Russians.

If Ukopistan attacks, Russia can adequately respond without having to send a single uniformed soldier across the border.  Long range arty and MLRS conduct deep strikes into the enemy rear to target their supplies & logistics, troop concentrations and arty positions.  Russia establishes air superiority and after making examples of whatever rag-tag Soviet-era air-frames the enemy manages to throw airborne, its then a free-for-all CAS action to support DPR/LPP ground units.

Murkan propaganda about "Russian invasion" is intended to give cover to the Ukronazis when they finally get their shit together and launch an offensive.  Western MSM nations will spin the inevitable Russian response as "aggression" or "invasion", and these corrupt sock puppets will sit back smugly and lecture all and sundry "we told you so".  Needless to say, our feckless MSM scribblers will happily act as cheerleaders for fascist aggression and will celebrate as people are killed in their latest engineered atrocity.

NATOstani plotters think they will engineer "Krajina 2".   On the contrary, they will learn the harsh lesson that was handed to Saakashvilli in 2008.  Don't fck with the Bear in his own den.

That's why I said diplomacy failed. The other side isn't even talking seriously. And there is no sign they want to solve that crisis at all. They just want russians to attack.

Well they can easily do what you said but IMO they will want to test their army in a real conventional war so they will send all in. Plenty of weapons to test.

Using only air force would also mean a longer war and the opportunity of nato to interfere. Russians would need to quickly secure the ukrainian airspace with AD. With only air force they would be at risk agaibst NATO forces.

But when I see the forces involved you can compare Ukraine to a cow going at the slaughterhouse. Russians are aware of that and aren't happy to use their forces and seems to want desperatly another solution. If it was US there would be already 2 million deads.

Funny thing is a week from now these morons would be fighting each other over who is *really* the Russian agent - but for the entirely wrong reasons.

JohninMK wrote:Not a very good map, sorry. There is a second explosion, could be a petrol station.


Spriter
@spriter99880
·
14m
The part where the explosion took place is part of the Druzba pipeline network. One of the largest gas supply networks in the world passes through Lugansk

Intelsky
@Intel_sky
·
34m
UPDATE - The Druzhba gas pipeline is on fire in Luhansk, eastern Ukraine after a powerful explosion - RIA reports

Ukraine War Report@UkrWarReport·47m

Initial unconfirmed reports that a gas pipeline exploded in rebel-held Luhansk area.

As you can clearly see, Druzhba doesn't pass anywhere near Lugansk. Also, it is an oil pipeline. Soyuz pipeline is a gas pipeline that passes through Lugansk oblast, but through northern part, controlled by Ukraine. What exploded was, probably, one of the spurs off Soyuz pipeline.

caveat emptor wrote:
As you can clearly see, Druzhba doesn't pass anywhere near Lugansk. Also, it is an oil pipeline. Soyuz pipeline is a gas pipeline that passes through Lugansk oblast, but through northern part, controlled by Ukraine. What exploded was, probably, one of the spurs off Soyuz pipeline.

The pipeline 'attacked' does not look big enough to be a proper trunk line. This looks like a local distribution pipe, video here https://twitter.com/spriter99880/status/1494817110446510082

Mike Mihajlovic
@MihajlovicMike
·
5m
Replying to
@spriter99880
This looks like explosive placed on the pipe, so sabotage. App. 1 kg or so just enough to blow the pipe and create secondary gas explosion. Not a lot debris (dark and close to the pipe). Burns on the ground. Location is interesting: ground level, below the elbow. Well placed.



Meanwhile, this looks as if it might be the other fire

BNO News
@BNONews
·
1h
Fire at gas pipeline in rebel-held Luhansk in eastern Ukraine has been extinguished - official


EDIT: Updated info

Judging by Twitter , the contact line has gone hot

Backman wrote:Judging by Twitter , the contact line has gone hot

Yeah? According to Pavlov's Dogvig that's not a reason to evacuate, even when you have pipelines exploding!  For context Pavlov's Dogvig also said Aegis Ashore systems launching Tomahawk missiles was not a legitimate reason to cry foul of INF Treaty violation (circa 2019).

BTW they're needs to be a sequel to The Debaltsevo Cauldron...The Debaltsevo Redux: Deep Fryer. Can't wait for the 'Gran' finale!     

ALAMO wrote:

bitcointrader70 wrote:
I’m Russian idiot.

That makes sense.

You can tell. In the above phrase he omitted an article.

kvs wrote:Only losers define their identity as being "other than".   Ukrs have no real identity and steal their history from Russia.   They are
a western project.   The only real Ukrs are the ones in the westernmost part that are essentially Polaks.  They even sound like
them.  

It actually makes sense for the Kiev regime and its NATzO patrons to move to Lvov.  

Yes, the name Ukraine is problematic. No one names their country on the edge. I propose the following new name:

Новая Польша

ALAMO wrote:

bitcointrader70 wrote:
I’m Russian idiot.

That makes sense.

Thanks Alamo. That made my day.

Your boy Putin offered the better deal and outbid the EU.... a lot of billions for a country nobody cares about. A lot of billions for a country nobody "should" care about.

He did, but you are forgetting or ignoring the fact that the Russian offer was not conditional on the Ukraine rejecting the EU bid.

As far as Russia was concerned Kiev could have accepted both the Russian and Chinese and EU bids all at once and played the field like Finland used to and other countries tried to do too.

The problem was that that polish cock sucker who claimed Russia needed Ukraine to become powerful again that is believed so deeply in the west is totally wrong.

Putin said in a speech about 15 years ago that the future of the world can't continue the way it has where international law only applies to little countries and can be totally ignored and used and abused by the west and those that suck up to them... the future needs to be based on international law, which means not invading countries just because it suits your interests... which is why he wont invade the Ukraine... he has no justification for that...

This is an article from RT by a professor at the University of Ottawa...

Putin warned the West, but the West didn't listen.

Like it or not, the Russian president is doubling down on his crusade against American hegemony

By Paul Robinson, a professor at the University of Ottawa. He writes about Russian and Soviet history, military history and military ethics, and is author of the Irrussianality blog. He tweets at @Irrussianality.

Fifteen years ago in Munich, Vladimir Putin shook the West with a sharp attack on its efforts to bend the world to its will. The West chose not to listen. As the clouds of war gather over Europe, one has to ask if that was wise.

With US officials anonymously briefing journalists that Russia will invade Ukraine within days, one wonders how things came to this. The optimism that prevailed after the collapse of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union some 30 years ago has been replaced by very real fears of war in Europe. Something went badly wrong. What, precisely?

Roughly at the mid-point between the end of the Cold War and today, Russia’s President Vladimir Putin gave a speech which provides an explanation, and which historians may well look back to as something of a turning point. Delivered to the Munich Conference on Security Policy on February 10, 2007, that’s 15 years ago last week, the speech was interpreted by many as a declaration of war on the West. This was a misinterpretation. Putin didn’t threaten the West with anything. Instead, he simply gave it a warning – if it continued along the same path, it would sow the seeds of its own destruction. Time has perhaps proven him right.

In his speech, Putin made a number of specific complaints. First, he objected to the idea of a unipolar order in which one country, the US, has dominated all others. This model, he said, “is not only unacceptable but also impossible in today’s world.” On the one hand, power was shifting; on the other hand, the unipolar model provided “no moral foundations for modern civilization.”

Second, Putin complained of “an almost uncontained hyper use of force – military force – in international relations.” While he didn’t mention any specific examples, it is likely that the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq was high on his list.

And third, the Russian president spoke of “a greater and greater disdain for the basic principles of international law. … One state and, of course, first and foremost the United States, has overstepped its national borders in every way.” The result was that “no one feels safe … because no one can feel that international law is like a stone wall that will protect them.”

These complaints have formed the basis of Russian foreign policy discourse ever since, with similar statements cropping up time and again in speeches and official documents. Anybody who had been paying attention at Munich 15 years ago should not have been surprised by subsequent Russian behaviour, as Putin had laid out his objectives very clearly.

These included the ending of the unipolar system and a return to a global order at whose center would lie not a single country but rather the United Nations. At Munich, Putin demanded a rethink of “the architecture of global security.” This would mean a system that provided “a reasonable balance between the interests of all participants in the international dialogue,” the use of force “should be a really exceptional measure,” and “the only mechanism that can make decisions about using military force as a last resort is the Charter of the United Nations.”

It is sometimes said that Putin is an ideologically flexible pragmatist, willing to shift his public position in accordance with what suits his practical objectives at any given moment. In fact, when it comes to international affairs, he has been extraordinarily consistent over time. The basic outlines laid out in the Munich speech haven’t changed and can be seen, for instance, in Putin’s recent joint statement with Chinese president Xi Jinping. This includes a call “to protect the United Nations-driven international architecture and the international law-based world order, [and] seek genuine multipolarity with the United Nations and its Security Council playing a central and coordinating role.”

The demand in Munich for a new “global security architecture” is also the primary element of Russia’s recent diplomatic offensive, with Moscow insisting that Ukraine is not its primary concern. Rather it desires a complete overhaul of the way in which international security is governed. Russian commentators have been somewhat dismissive of Western claims that the country is poised to invade Ukraine, arguing that the West is entirely missing the point.

In light of all this, it’s worth noting what a Russian invasion of Ukraine would actually mean. For the past 15 years, ever since the Munich speech, Russian officials have been arguing against the unilateral use of force and demanding a UN-centered security system founded on international law. Were we to wake up one day and find that Russian tanks were rolling towards Kiev without any kind of excuse, it would amount to a complete abandonment of 15 years of argumentation as well as a negation of the entire legal/moral position built up by the Russian Federation in that period, a position reinforced just this month in the Putin/Xi statement.


It would also be very odd. For you can hardly achieve the objective of a multipolar world based on the principles of UN supremacy and international law by means of a massive breach of those very same principles. It would be extraordinarily self-defeating. A certain skepticism about the allegedly “imminent” Russian invasion of Ukraine is therefore due. It’s not impossible, but one has to wonder why, after so many years of consistency, Putin would suddenly change his position in such a drastic way.

As for the West, looking back at its self-destructive errors in recent years, one might consider Putin something of a prophet. But if so, it’s a prophet in the guise of the Trojan princess Cassandra who was fated to be always right but never believed. Rather than taking heed of Putin’s warning, Western leaders have bludgeoned onwards, toppling Colonel Gaddafi in Libya, aiding rebels in Syria, attempting (and failing at) regime change in Venezuela, fighting and losing against the Taliban, sanctioning Iran, supporting revolution in Ukraine, and so on. It has not turned out well. We can’t say we weren’t warned.

Source: https://www.rt.com/russia/549342-putin-against-old-world-order/

Somehow they don't care about any Russians inside Ukraine (ethnic majority) outside of contested borders of the Donbass (drawn up on the fly)...

Of course they care, but they also care about Russians in the Baltic states and have not shelled or invaded them either.

Somehow Russia doesn't care about Ukraine but will threaten to prevent NATO ascension of Ukraine with "military-technical" measures and potential invasion ambiguity.... consequences of which could equal a break up with the West (most influential and powerful economic, political bloc on the planet). That's a lot on the line for a country Russia doesn't give a shit about...

It doesn't have to be Ukraine, it could be Finland or Sweden or Georgia that joins that causes what it is going to cause... and I can say it wont cause any attack or any invasion... but it will be something the west will be very unhappy about...

Why the obvious lie? why the obvious spin? why the damage control day in, day out, for 32,000 posts? Black is white...

My posts interpret the lies of the western media and politicians... the US State Department prints the stories and the reporters copy and paste and distribute it to th esheeple.... no processing or thinking required or allowed.... even when it doesn't make any sense at all.

It's too easy, but dimwits here can't even spot damage control bots like this. Like I said, a simple propagandist, intellectually dishonest, trying to keep the sheep of this forum on a cohesive narrative (whatever places the Kremlin in a positive light). It's the job folks. To other users here...pay a bit of attention to the patterns. BTw he doesn't give two shits what you think of him, he only cares about what the unsuspecting sheep believe (that's, anyone that can be influenced to think a certain way). Sad, but it's what it's.

You misinterpret freedom of speech... I don't bully or threaten anyone who thinks differently from me... I let them have their say.... very unamerican of me... I should be tracking down the naysayers and trying to get them fired from their jobs and ostracised for polite society.

Calling me a bot would be more effective if you didn't call the members here dimwits, and what damage control... Putin knows he would never be openly freely or fairly reported about in the west... media in the west has proven itself to be the damage control bot for the west to explain the stupid mistakes and terrible errors made by the dimwits people in the west are forced to vote for.... you can have A or B... there is almost never a viable third alternative because the political machines in the west usually don't allow for it. Half the people voting for this or that party are voting for them because they think they are the lessor of two shit choices, not because they want them in power, or think they would be good for the job. It is so depressing many don't even bother to vote any more and the longer you live the more you will see it does not matter who gets into office... anything good the last lot did they will claim it failed and undo it which means if things can't be fixed in one or two terms then it never gets fixed. If it works but doesn't benefit their perceived power base they will sabotage it and claim it failed too.

Reduce funding for hospitals and when they start screwing things up, claim the private sector is vastly more efficient and public healthcare is bloated and inefficient and it should all be done through private insurance... which is just another tax for everyone of course.

People who come here generally share their experiences or fears for the future regarding the west because the west has doubled down on whistle blowers because they thrive on the current system... billionaires wanting to become trillionaires even though they couldn't spend all their billions if they wanted to, while everyone else gets poorer and the economy goes backward... trailer parks for everyone... and not by choice.

Maybe that´s the solution.

Would cost the Russian economy too much and stifle real growth and development.

Actually Ukraine is quite important. A popultaion of 45 million, fertile lands, nice left over industries from soviet times and they connect Russia to the Balkans.

That is what that Zebrewsky guy was saying and it was bollocks... don't forget it connects Russia with the EU and offers Black Sea access to the Med and the world... but the country is broken, food production in Russia is astounding already, industries from Soviet times are gone... stolen and broken and out of date now, and you can't access the Balkans via the Ukraine from Russia... there are EU and HATO countries to cross to reach that.

From an economic point of view it's a very useful coubtry for Russia. If they annexe it they will have a population of 200 million people abd a nice buffer zone against NATO.

No, if they annex it they will have a festering boil that consumes money and effort and all they will get is open hostility from a people some of whom might want to speak Russian but none of them consider themselves to actually be Russia... more so as you move further west.

Let these regions break from the Ukraine and have independent trade relations with Russia and that will be fine on its own.

No need for invasion or expansion of anything.

Lmao why are they evacuating civilians if the “mighty rebels” are able to handle Ukrainian forces all on their own?

Because they are expecting an invasion from Kiev forces who think all the locals are dirty Russian invaders on sacred Ukrainian soil so they wont be holding back when it comes to opening fire on civilians.

Having them out of the way means the men in those regions can slaughter those orc idiots without fear those orcs might get revenge by shelling their families in revenge.

Too many delusional people on this site. Looks like Russia will have to go in to prevent the seperatists from getting their shit pushed in.

Lets see what sort of spine these Kiev troops have before we start needing Russian interference... right now this is still a civil war between Ukrainian groups.

Bullshit in debaltsevo the Russian military bailed their ass out.

Even assuming they did... they didn't invade... so that is all they have to do again.

I'm afraid it will be a very bloody battle. I don't know how long it will last for.

I doubt the rebels even want Kiev as part of their new country, Kiev will fall with internal fighting over who fucked up.

The rebels will likely consolidate the region they hold and perhaps nearby regions that want to join the exit of the EU/US experiment.

The way I see it, we are heading for war. Idiot Putin let Kiev arm under his nose, while he was giving press conferences with a colgate smile.

According to signed agreements and international law this is an internal civil war matter for Kiev, they signed documents at Minsk to solve the situation but are not following through on their promises.

If they take it by force then Russia is free to respond.

It's cozy and warm in the Kremlin. Has Putin visited Donbas to see how his people live day to day? Even the comedian puppet has visited the contact line several times.... Not sure about dear leader traveling anywhere near the Donbas (at least for a "give hope" photo-op at the very border). Too pre-occupied with the "optics"... that'll show them.

It is a civil war for Ukraine. Not Putins problem yet.

If it is confirmed that Kiev is going to try to take those regions by force Putin will likely engage the Russian military to give the victim Ukrainians the support they need to defend themselves, which might include attacks on Ukraine against certain factions that are resisting the peaceful solutions already signed up for.

The Kremlin can concede the Donbas and call it a day... at this point it's irresponsible to give those people hope for something that costs so much blood against the odds.... just to play a bureaucratic game.... that is Ukraine having "contested territory" thus violating one of NATO's ascension rules thus voiding Ukraine's NATO ascension. A very selfish game, sort of holding those people hostage for a game, not actually freeing them from the Ukro yoke. What about all the other Russians still living in Ukraine, a bit further west, north or south? Millions of them. Boggles the mind the selective, half measure policies. Evacuation is the least they can do (should have happened sooner), god knows these people have served their time as cannon fodder for Russia's Minks agreement "strategy".. if you can even call it a strategy.

Hilarious... you think the US paid for coup in the Ukraine is Russias fault?

This is the west trying to isolate Russia from neighbours who could be allies... they did it in Georgia and tried it in Belarus and now in the Ukraine... but you want to blame Putin for these Orcs actions?

It is the forces of Kiev that are breaking international law by shelling their own people...

The west helped by providing old worn out obsolete weapons, which have probably already been sold by those oligarchs doing a runner a few days ago...

If a Georgia 2.0 OP is on the cards... it's so predictably stupid I don't know what else to say. It's no deterrent, which is why the aggression takes place to begin with. But then again, to borrow a user's observation, when you have a reactionary, inert, risk-adverse, aging past political prime, weak leader, everything is possible. Someone with first hand experience calls the whole cadre, the Kremlin gnomes.

Georgia part two would be fine... Zelenskys force humiliated and crush in days if not hours, aggressors pushed back past their previous positions and peace imposed with as little loss of life as possible except in Georgia the Georgians had a bit more time to shell innocent civilians so the losses might even be lower... I suspect the losses on the Orcs side will be rather higher.

A users observation... how does that user observe Spongebrain poopypants or Johnson or Micron or the new German leader whatever his name is?

Putin is not like the west, he wont regime change the way the west does and he wont stand by while other countries dismember and butcher countries like the psychopaths they are.

How many dead Iraqis and Syrians and Libyans and Afghans do they have on their hands... and they could care less... they continue the game trying to regime change Venezuela and other countries in Central and South America and around the world... that is why Putin and China are now both working against the west... and it is about time.

The answer, I believe, is obvious: evacuation. There are around 3.2 million residents in Donetsk People’s Republic and 1.4 million in Lugansk People’s Republic, for a total of some 4.6 million residents. This may seem like a huge number, but it’s moderate by the scale of World War II evacuations. Keep in mind that Russia has already absorbed over a million Ukrainian migrants and refugees without much of a problem. Also, Russia is currently experiencing a major labor shortage, and an infusion of able-bodied Russians would be most welcome.

Except the people being evacuated are women and children and likely the elderly which makes you totally wrong in your claim this will benefit Russia.

Their menfolk are staying to fight for their land and likely wont come too.

It's hard to say these people deserve this... but, the Russian leadership, immune to accountability, certainly does.

What a weasel... trying to suggest Putin is to blame for the pain these people are suffering, when it is nazi glorifying Orc that are doing all of this under orders from Kiev.

Your everything is Putins fault is the US's go to cry because obviously he is evil and nasty... how many has he murdered, and lets tally that up with the wests efforts...

Ukrainian plan is base on big numerical superiority of Ukrainian army.

Numerical advantages are quickly nullified by expert use of artillery... something the rebels showed last time around...

Nothing dead weight about it

As far as Russia is concerned the Donbass is part of the Ukraine. What business does Putin have inspecting anything there?

You're the one who should think a little

The Subtle propaganda continues... this is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine driven by Putin... the rebels are not Ukrainian, they are all Russian soldiers of course... NOT.

Stop drinking the US State Department cool aid Atlasclub, this is a civil war between Ukrainians, the rebels got Russian passports not to become Russian but to get some protection from Kiev they hope.

Russia has no plans to invade and occupy the Ukraine... if Kiev is dumb enough to attack these regions if those regions can't push them back then Russia will help them to do so by mauling the rear areas and support structure that is attacking the regions which will make the Orc army collapse.

The kids I agree will be mouths to feed but kids do grow up and these kids will grow up in Russia. The elderly are mouths to feed but I don't think Russians don't think like that when it comes to Russians. The women can do jobs.

They wont stay in Russia... when this is over they will go home to what ever is left and they will rebuild and open their border with Russia and trade normally.

Try to fight it all you want... 22 years doesn't change the history of centuries. Weak leaders might want to rewrite history with their propaganda while they rule to fit their legacy on the books but historians know better.

Tell that to the Serbs still living in Albanian Kosovo...

So you are saying after 7 years of the obvious Russia is unprepared for a small regional conflict?

No, we are saying that after 7 years this is still an internal matter for the Ukraine and is a civil conflict between two groups of Ukrainians.

If Kiev wants to genocide what it sees as Russian invaders and occupiers of Ukrainian land then Russia will almost certainly intervene and stop that attack using standoff weapons and artillery to destroy the attackers and help the defenders defend themselves.

When it is over those people who fled to Russia will go back and life will attempt to return to normal.

So I am advocating for Russia not to waste it's time in some flag waiving operation like Iraq or Afghanistan where you'll lose your war boner and never fight in a war again like our American friends across the sea

A core part of the western fuckups is they had not endgame plan or strategy for the invasion or attacks.

For Russia it will be to destroy the infrastructure of Kievs forces.... that might even include destroying the gas pipelines through the Ukraine... either openly and directly with standoff weapons, or with small groups pretending to be rebels...

Taking out the Azovs barracks would be a useful thing too along with the residences of a few extreme anti Russian politicians and of course the most anti Russian TV and radio centres.

West will introduce sanctions against Russia in any case, Putin says

The Russian leader stressed that sanctions pressure "is absolutely illegitimate"

He doesn't fear sanctions any more... he sees them as an opportunity to attack the west... a good example was banning food imports from the EU... without EU sanctions he could never have achieved that little coup because the WTO rules don't allow that sort of protectionism needed to get investment and development into local food growers and producers and distributers because it is considered unfair trade.

There are probably a few areas Russia can sanction the west that will hurt the west rather more than it hurts Russia, and hopefully might lead to Russia turning more away from the west and more towards the rest of the world.

Russia offered a better deal to Ukraine as a state, what the west offered benefitted the oligarchs, there is no contradiction there, unless you would agree that antonov making pencils and wood stoves is in line with the better deal

It is even worse than that because the Russian deal was not exclusive and they would have been fine if Kiev had accepted the deals from Russia and China and the EU all at once, but the EU demanded it was their deal only that could be accepted because the plan was to take the Ukraine away from Russia and turn Sevastopol into a HATO naval base...

That man will be needing some himself.... as for the rest of the plebs, if things continue on this path, a run on the ruble is likely.... which means that vodka is gonna get a whole lot more expensive for minimum wage trolls in Crimea. Hoard while you can, just in case Putin doesn't sign the capitulation.

Wars generally force energy prices up, which seems to push the value of the ruble down so imported crap gets more expensive and Russian made stuff gets more attractive... sounds like a win win for Putin and Russia.

Gary give me some help here, clean this mess up , I'm fending off troll attacks from the bitcoin sped, the atlasclown and seig heil whenever it is he joins in on the chorus

You are doing just fine, you are making sense, and they are just pushing the same BS propaganda shit their media shovels... Russian invasion Russian invasion... the Rooskies are coming the Rooskies are coming.

I live near a city called Dunedin all the way down here in the southern hemisphere in a British commonwealth country called New Zealand and we spent our own money building coastal artillery to defend ourselves because we thought the Russians were coming... that was in 1889... they still haven't been here yet except peaceful friendly visits by training vessels and fishing boats operating legally in our waters.

I think this crap would pollute the talking bollocks thread and it is important to keep it here to remind other reading about the immense power of western propaganda where a situation where a countries government who was overthrown by a foreign power that banned opposition parties from running in elections and therefore continues to control the country that is attacking several regions of its own country but somehow the neighbouring country and its leader is getting all the blame and threats.

Several countries got together and worked out a politicial solution that involves dialogue between the new regime in this country and two regions not happy with their policies and instead of following that agreement and talking with those leaders they have sent troops to the border and are shelling and murdering their own people in what is essentially a civil war.

Somehow it is Putins fault and it is Russia being aggressive. And mistakes by Putin and Russia created this situation.

It is Putins fault for demanding international law be observed and the west is blaming him for an invasion he has no intention of starting, but when Kiev attacks these two regions and he responds the west will claim that is the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and declare themselves right all along.

But we are deranged and don't understand the great game of chess Biden and Johnson et al are playing it seems.

Putin will likely wait till Kiev does something blatantly stupid and then clean them up very quickly without sending in troops.

Kiev will not be occupied but the Orcs numbers will be thinned of the hard core and various targets will be engaged as targets of opportunity... the western media will show footage of all the churches and schools and hospitals the Russians will be targeting, but they have no credibility any more anyway.

Zelensky will be removed and a full civil war might start in that part of the Ukraine, or the nazis might retain power through brutality and force... not Russias problem.

These two regions will be secured and perhaps slightly expanded and the next shells coming over the border will be from guns already destroyed.... so it wont last as long as it has this time around.

Yeah, seriously, start removing these morons Garry. You are just allowing these threads to be filled with retards and lack of contribution besides their diarrhea

Quite important to read what they say and how detached from actual reality they are... this is what Russia is opposed to, which very much justifies their stance and turning away from the west instead of partnerships is the best solution to their current problems they have had in a while now.

With how quickly this evacuation begun, I think was likely being prepared for a while.

That is the difference between a professional military and a politician and oligarch mission... say in Kabul... save the dogs first...

That makes sense.

Would make more sense if you add an 'a' after the I'm...

He's technically an ethnic mental-midget. He's as much Russian as I'm a Martian!

Remember Navalny is Russian too... being Russian does not mean you are patriotic and care about Russians or Russia.... being a bitcointrader is like being a hedgefund manager... he probably thinks anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot and weak or stupid and that the way forward for Russia and Russians is to be more like America and Americans. Which is amusing considering a few Americans on this forum not happy with where America is currently headed... certainly away from their core values...

The part where the explosion took place is part of the Druzba pipeline network. One of the largest gas supply networks in the world passes through Lugansk

It is good the Orcs are doing this, because targeting pipelines in the rest of the Ukraine would be a useful way of forcing the EU into a very stark choice over its energy supply from Russia...

So this is the pipeline that carries Russian gas through Ukraine to Europe? If so I doubt it was the Ukrainians who did this. Maybe it was the rebels who blew up the pipeline to finally force Russia to intervene?

Gas pipelines wont get Russia to intervene.

They have alternative pipelines to send gas to the EU, it is up to the EU to let them use them, but that is not up to Russia to defend gas pipelines like that.

Using only air force would also mean a longer war and the opportunity of nato to interfere. Russians would need to quickly secure the ukrainian airspace with AD. With only air force they would be at risk agaibst NATO forces.

They are not going to only fight from the air... they have the precision weapons to deal with a wide range of targets in the Ukraine including comms and HQs and fuel and ammo stores as well as important infrastructure... how many bridges would they need to take down to break their logistics support for their own military...

They don't need to invade to occupy anything and the rebels can seize the land they want and free neighbours that want to be freed from Kiev and see a return to normal that the Crimea is seeing.

No threats or occupations... let the people choose their own future.

But when I see the forces involved you can compare Ukraine to a cow going at the slaughterhouse. Russians are aware of that and aren't happy to use their forces and seems to want desperatly another solution. If it was US there would be already 2 million deads.

The Russians are not going to exterminate as many as they can... any Orcs who want to retreat or surrender wont be mowed down like the Americans did in Kuwait...

Yeah? According to Pavlov's Dogvig that's not a reason to evacuate, even when you have pipelines exploding! Rolling Eyes For context Pavlov's Dogvig also said Aegis Ashore systems launching Tomahawk missiles was not a legitimate reason to cry foul of INF Treaty violation (circa 2019).

AEGIS Ashore is a direct violation of the INF treaty.

GarryB wrote:

He did, but you are forgetting or ignoring the fact that the Russian offer was not conditional on the Ukraine rejecting the EU bid.

As far as Russia was concerned Kiev could have accepted both the Russian and Chinese and EU bids all at once and played the field like Finland used to and other countries tried to do too.

The problem was that that polish cock sucker who claimed Russia needed Ukraine to become powerful again that is believed so deeply in the west is totally wrong.

Putin said in a speech about 15 years ago that the future of the world can't continue the way it has where international law only applies to little countries and can be totally ignored and used and abused by the west and those that suck up to them... the future needs to be based on international law, which means not invading countries just because it suits your interests... which is why he wont invade the Ukraine... he has no justification for that...

Long spin that amounts to nothing.

Putin and his cadre cared, they knew the stakes then with the nascent plans for the Union State, Eurasian Economic Union and CSTO, and so did the Americans and the EU who wanted to kill it on its birth bed. That's why there was a bidding rivalry. So your assertion that they don't care about Ukraine is a flat out lie. Putin and cadre cared enough so as to outbid the EU bid, despite being less resourceful. He even made a deal to keep Yanukovich in power but got played like a fvck toy by the Americans who went in with the strong hand. Instead of responding, with ample cards, your boy Putin settled on crumbs by grabbing land in the East and licked his wounds. Simple as that.

That cocksucker was a solid strategist, the kind of which the USSR would have loved to have, instead of the Soviet(Russian) failures that drove an empire to the ground. An objective assessment, not an endorsement.

Of course they care, but they also care about Russians in the Baltic states and have not shelled or invaded them either.

Obviously. Those countries are NATO member states. Good luck touching that beehive by shelling them. Putin and his cadre knows Russia's current place in the power dynamics of this planet. Hec, they even underestimate it my opinion.

Ukraine is not a NATO member state, yet. Once they become a NATO member state, they're untouchable, unless the Russian leadership wants a World War. At the very least a break up with the West the magnitudes of which would make the crusades child play ... open season against all Russian client states (as few as they're).

Thus the pressing need, the caring to prevent it.

It doesn't have to be Ukraine, it could be Finland or Sweden or Georgia that joins that causes what it is going to cause... and I can say it wont cause any attack or any invasion... but it will be something the west will be very unhappy about...

You're acting dumb here for the sake of being obtuse. Russia doesn't give two fucks if say, a Montenegro joins NATO... a few words of "support" sent to their Serbian "friends" in "protest pronouncements" but just that... fluff.

Ukraine on the other hand, massive territory with a massive border with Russia, with majority of ethnic Russian population, in the tens of millions. It's not just about caring for any state joining NATO. You can continue with the BS, and spin it all you want, it's still bullshit.

My posts interpret the lies of the western media and politicians... the US State Department prints the stories and the reporters copy and paste and distribute it to th esheeple.... no processing or thinking required or allowed.... even when it doesn't make any sense at all.

Lol what nonsense. It doesn't matter what your motivation is (even if I were to believe in any single word you type, which I don't). What matters is what you're peddling. You're peddling intellectually dishonest lies, knowing full well they're lies. And you're trying to spin your way out it like an amateur.

You misinterpret freedom of speech... I don't bully or threaten anyone who thinks differently from me... I let them have their say.... very unamerican of me... I should be tracking down the naysayers and trying to get them fired from their jobs and ostracised for polite society.

You tried to paint me as a war monger with a passive aggressive ad-hominen on what you believed was a low hanging fruit opportunity to take a shot at me. You believed, in your immense stupidity, that I wouldn't have a comeback for your simplistic garbage. There is nothing noble out of "not exercising the ban hammer". You know damn well you started it, cause you couldn't contain yourself. You deal with what comes after and take it in the chin.

It's indeed free speech. I'm honest about what I think about everyone here, the good, the bad etc. Not everyone is honest, specially those who think they can reach the moral high ground with lies, bullshit and propaganda. Your type is a known quantity... full of bullshit. Like I said, get back to the drawing board... the strategy of tiring random idiots as you usually do with low IQ garbage ad-infinitum ain't gonna work here. Get a bit more creative.

Backman wrote:Judging by Twitter , the contact line has gone hot

Contact line going hot was expected, owners ordered 404s to try Hail Mary pass come hell or high water and it's their only hope of getting NATO involved (obviously it will not be happening but average Mykola who will be getting incinerated by Grad fire doesn't know that)

The Ukraine is like airplane: every minute it's not being used it's losing money and owners have had it with losing money

So the idea of a conflict has settled in site-wide? No more hold outs?

And to say, this could have been solved much easier in 2014 by holding firm and responding to the coup attempt properly.  

Consequences... consequences.