Western propaganda #2

Some environmental nonsense.

If you look at average temperatures over millions of years you can see that actually climate changes all the time... and is never stable... in fact right now we should be having an ice age.

We really need to study history to identify why the temperature goes up so regularly and what makes it drop again because we need to make sure it will drop, but if we meddle too much and do the wrong thing we might end up with a real ice age which would really create problems.

This is not talked about enough but this article sheds light on an important angle and US military bases in other countries:

The story of a black American Army private who ditched a tour of the DMZ and ran into North Korea has taken over the news cycle due to its novelty value, but the incident is an opportunity to discuss the anarchy and dysfunction the United States exports to its satellite states through its 750 overseas bases in 80 countries.


https://www.unz.com/estriker/the-rampant-black-violence-on-american-military-bases/

The problem with the climate changes all the time argument is that it is context-free and useless information. Looking at temperature
variations over a billion years is not relevant for human civilization time-scales of 10,000 years. Modern humans only appeared in the
last 800,000 years and the variation of climate during this period is well constrained. Perhaps giant insects of the past could enjoy 1000 ppmv
CO2 but humans can't.

To ground the discussion in usefulness, one needs to consider the wet bulb temperature. Humans and other mammals cannot survive
when this measure is over 40. Humans could use "space suits" with refrigeration units but get real. Humans have not seen lethal
temperature-humidity conditions until the present time. For example events in India where the temperature is 50 C and humidity is
near 100% that lead to hundreds of deaths of people who have not cooled shelter. For now the wet bulb temperature danger zones
appear only in some parts of the tropics, but they are spreading. The spread has a high likelihood of becoming catastrophic since we
are in the process of warming the oceans and switching off the CO2 ocean "net sink". The oceans have 50 times more CO2 dissolved
in them than is found in the atmosphere. When they start being net sources of CO2 (before 2100), then we are f*cked. It is a
run-away scenario since the ocean warming amplifies in a CO2 feedback loop. The system will settle down in a few thousand years, but
humanity will be hammered mostly into oblivion.

The last 10,000 years has been good for civilization because the climate has been very stable. This is proven by ice core and sedimentary
data (ocean and lake bottom sediments). Agriculture rests on predictable climate (weather is just noise inside the climate envelope).
Global warming is a terminal threat to agriculture. The continents are not covered with nice soil everywhere and shifting favourable zones
are not guaranteed to give you sufficient yields. Building domed farm complexes is sci-fi nonsense. May as well build domed cities on Mars.

Time to deliver some "Agent Orange". 

To ground the discussion in usefulness, one needs to consider the wet bulb temperature.

But that is the problem... the west has decided, and the solution is for everyone top stop using fossil fuels and the US will invent an alternative energy source that everyone will rent from them so they stay rich and powerful forever...

No discussion is allowed.

I remember a pissed off BBC reporter talking to a Russian government official about climate change in the 1990s who was really not happy that Russia didn't think climate change was the most important issue of the world... I seem to remember he said something like global warming will be good because he lives in a cold country...

Pretty funny that the west is so focused on the conflict in the Ukraine they created for themselves and now don't understand why countries around the world could care less about a war in Europe. I mean people in Peru or Fiji should obviously be worried about Russian aggression in Europe rather than their own problems.

Hopefully BRICS will result in countries developing and growing and potentially being able to contribute more to other longer term problems.

We really don't know enough about the earths climate... it might be that is self corrects or it might run the other way out of control and we might just have to learn to adapt.

Some way of extracting carbon in a solid form from CO2 and CO would be a great start, but then photosynthesis already does that... so really how hard could it be?

We have farmed the land but raped the sea... how often do people try to improve the conditions of the sea for the life in it like they put fertiliser on soil to prepare it for growing food?

Some way of collecting the plastic waste and melting it and forming large solid blocks with it for construction... using it to make roads... or making things that need to last.

I remember the first garden furniture you could get was awful... it broke down in the sun and cracked and fell to bits. The newer stuff is almost indestructable and should be being used for all sorts of things.

Some plastics are just too toxic and need to be broken down into base chemicals that can either be stored or used... but the focus seems to just be about oil companies.

Perhaps when the west is no longer in control we can take a proper look at problems from a human perspective instead of a profit perspective.

According to the ministry, this provides extra camouflage cover for Russian troops and complicates Kiev’s mine-sweeping efforts. “Although undergrowth can also provide cover for small stealthy infantry assaults, the net effect has been to make it harder for either side to make advances,” it added.

Improved vegetation cover should make attacking easier, not harder... and it would make defending harder because you wont get line of sight contact with the enemy till they are much closer giving less time to stop them.

Perhaps the Russians should be delivering parcels of weed to the Ukrainian forces... they will still die, but they will be relaxed and mellow about it all.

The Western propaganda machines have always painted the Swedes as the epitome of civility, tolerance, and progressive values. They are hailed as unwavering champions of human rights and liberal values. 

GarryB wrote:

According to the ministry, this provides extra camouflage cover for Russian troops and complicates Kiev’s mine-sweeping efforts. “Although undergrowth can also provide cover for small stealthy infantry assaults, the net effect has been to make it harder for either side to make advances,” it added.

Improved vegetation cover should make attacking easier, not harder... and it would make defending harder because you wont get line of sight contact with the enemy till they are much closer giving less time to stop them.

Perhaps the Russians should be delivering parcels of weed to the Ukrainian forces... they will still die, but they will be relaxed and mellow about it all.

I think it comes down to who knows the terrain and who can take advantage of it better

Vietnam was the ultimate for camouflage cover. But also severely hampered mobility; part of the reason the US relied so much on helicopters. Advancing was deadly and defending was close range, but generally the Vietnamese were used to both - advancing units through thick jungle and infiltrating them, or ferrying supplies through narrow paths - and also in defense, setting up ambushes.

I seem to also remember reading about the the difficulties American soldiers faced advancing in northern France in WW2, due to the bocages with the frequent thick hedgerows and shubbery which disrupted line of sight. But of course the Germans would have had the same problem.

Claiming that your side lost because of vegetation is like the typical football team blaming the bad state of the pitch after a lost football match.
You know, both sides have to play on the same lawn. Or in this case fields and forests.

Just saw this would like more information from you guys on this; I am not following the day to day events of the war since I am busy doing other stuff.



https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vladimir-putin-in-trouble-as-ukraine-destroys-russia-s-most-terrible-weapon-in-fresh-blitzkrieg/ar-AA1eMTCF?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=1747457c2c464cb088104ea2e0fec2e4&ei=44

Except that doesn't happen.

I am not saying they are right... what they normally do is use their money to buy any new technology of value and move production to somewhere they can control and try to deny it to others... we have seen chip making being shifted from Taiwan to the US and Taiwan is overseeing it... we see the US ban Chinese electronics giant Huawei from selling its 5g technology to the west, and indeed the US put sanctions and tarrifs on Chinese solar panels because they are cheap and just as good as western ones so who would buy American made at double the price?

Big oils company is still making huge profits everyday and "green" or "renewable" projects are either flawed, ineffective, or are used as a mean to bloodsucking small countries and prevent the Global South to properly finish their industrialization process and be economically independent.

Have you not noticed the rebranding... after WWI the War department and Ministry of War in western countries suddenly became Defence Ministry or Ministry of Defence or Department of Defence... nothing actually changed... it was just cosmetic rebranding.

It is the same for oil companies... which are now energy companies and they will shift to any technology they view as giving them the most profit and financial advantage moving forward.

But someone who is making real effort to go green and renewable is Cuba, simply because the USA criminal embargo prevent sufficient oil and gasoline to reach Cuba therefore they ask China to help them build an electric bike factory with makes 20000 bikes and tri wheelers a year.

China is doing a lot of work improving batteries and solar and other technologies western oil companies used to buy up the patents for and then just sat on them so no progress could be made.

China is under western sanction over its wind generators and solar panels and batteries because they are too much of a threat to western companies trying to do the same thing.

A country is being serious in clean energy because they see it not only as solution for treating climate change but also a mean to fight against imperialism.

Hopefully that can become part of what BRICS is all about too... helping countries to help themselves with new cleaner renewable technology they can own themselves.

I seem to also remember reading about the the difficulties American soldiers faced advancing in northern France in WW2, due to the bocages with the frequent thick hedgerows and shubbery which disrupted line of sight. But of course the Germans would have had the same problem.

The hedgerows were a distinct advantage for the western allies because the short distances you could see and shoot meant the Tigers enormous armour advantage was negated because Shermans could use numbers and get very close, whereas the German tanks with their superior guns and armour would have been better off in flat open steppe where the target could be seen at enormous distances and engaged at such ranges where their guns might not be accurate enough to be effective.

Remember their best round for the Sherman was a sabot round which was horribly inaccurate at range.

Just saw this would like more information from you guys on this; I am not following the day to day events of the war since I am busy doing other stuff.

The top photo shows a TOS battery launching rockets, but is trying to pass it off as a TOS vehicle being destroyed... this western propaganda thread is probably the best place for such bullshit.

I mean ask yourself... why would Putin care about Ukrainian strikes on artillery vehicles... it is the sort of thing they have been trying to do since the conflict started...

Actually we do understand enough of the physics involved in climate.   The atmosphere is composed 79% nitrogen, 20% oxygen and most of the rest is argon.
These gases do not absorb IR radiation and thus do not trap the heat produced by solar radiation (mostly visible band) at the surface.   People love to pin
climate dynamics on the Sun, but have no clue what they are yapping about.    What maintains temperatures high enough for life is the trace CO2, CH4 and the
other greenhouse gases which enable water to appear in a vapour state in the atmosphere and do the heavy lifting together with them for IR absorption and
thus trapping (absorbed radiation is re-emitted which means in every thin layer half goes up and half goes down; integrating over the layers results in a delay
of radiation to space and higher temperatures).    Without trace greenhouse gases (primarily CO2) the Earth would be a type of ice Hell with lots of surface
warming on the Sun side and super cold on the dark side.    Water would always condense and sediment out and the regime would be the snowball-Earth
we had in the past when solar output was 30% lower and greenhouse gases were low.  

Doubling and tripling the CO2 is not some trifle because the concentrations are "only" in ppmv.    CO2 is the valve that controls the climate on this planet.
Atmospheric CO2 is not a physical constant and everything is "just solar or other variability".   The atmospheric circulation does not determine the global mean temperature.
Only the composition of the atmosphere determines the global radiative transfer state.   The endless appeal to variability speaks to ignorance of the subject.  Variability
is not a physical process it is an apparent property of the system produced by many deterministic processes.   The atmosphere-ocean-earth system is not stochastic.

For some reason people think they have intuition about the climate.   They have none and can have none without a proper education in the subject.   It is just
as absurd as claiming to be an expert in nuclear physics because "reasons".   Climate is not weather.   It is the energy balance of the dynamical system consisting
of the atmosphere and ocean with an important land component.   F*cking around with the composition of the atmosphere is not safe with unknown results.

It does not matter that NATzO states are hyping climate change, they do not make it false.   They are using it to further their colonial ambitions.   Denying climate
change and the role of CO2 is moronic.   It is not going to make NATzO go away.  It will give NATzO unwarranted credit in the coming decades as the denier BS
progressively exposes itself as such.   I can see 20-40 years from now all the human lemmings speaking of NATzO and its climate concerns with reverence.   The
colonialists will be extolled and the global masses will bend over and spread their butt-cheeks.    The developing world has to choose a different energy path
instead of mimicking the developed world of the past.   This includes nuclear power with solar and wind and electrification instead of fossil fuel dependence.  
They are the ones that can do this because they are starting from nothing and are not invested in obsolete infrastructure.  

BTW, climate change denial is strong in Russia and there are all sorts of cranks who keep trotting out the Sun as the source of all the precious variability.
These clowns are a national embarrassment for Russia.   Their drivel has been debunked a million times: solar variability is quantified through TSI which is
measured and first principles calculations can be carried out to compare the temperature change from CO2 and from TSI.

@Garry: when they are outcompeted by a rival then frame them as a spy and ask their friends in the government to intervene.

Very true and by claiming their opposition are immoral or breaking the rules they use that to destroy them or just limit their access to western and western controlled markets. They will continue with their own protectionist practises that limit their popularity in the markets they operate in... they succeed by eliminating or containing alternatives.

Here in New Zealand there was a local sugar drink called L&P. Lemon and Paeroa... basically another lemon drink... like 7up and Sprite and lots of other similar drinks... and they market L&P as somehow being the NZ competition for the other foreign drinks but they make them all... the illusion of choice...

Ironically the article shows no evidence of China using spy devices but all evidences of Western companies losing the market.

Yet there is open and clear evidence of US and western companies... hardware and software doing rather worse spying than China ever could or would.

Chinese companies might be interested in economic information about their new customers so they can better direct advertising at them, but that is rather more innocent than what most western companies like Apple and Microsoft already do.

mean, it's rather hard to understand why instead of talking normally and looking at both sides, instead they get super angry and aggressive for no reason.

Not that hard really... they are in the Matrix which they think they understand... some things don't make sense like if Putin is so evil how does he get voted back in all the time, but obviously he cheats because he is evil.

That is much easier to deal with than all your news media and governments of all western countries and western countries media are lying to you and you might start noticing how bad things are at home... that no one seems to be talking about let alone trying to fix.

To be honest I think it is great they blame Putin and Russia... if they didn't they would actually have to discuss the real issues and problems of the west and they might actually sort a few things out, but for as long as the gambler is blaming everyone else for his problems... all he needs is some cash for the next gamble and win it all back and then he will give up... he is not an addict. Those debts getting bigger and income is being effected by using the US dollar as a weapon... and seizing money and assets of countries and trying to steal it all... yeah, investors love that...

GarryB wrote:

Ironically the article shows no evidence of China using spy devices but all evidences of Western companies losing the market.

Yet there is open and clear evidence of US and western companies... hardware and software doing rather worse spying than China ever could or would.

Chinese companies might be interested in economic information about their new customers so they can better direct advertising at them, but that is rather more innocent than what most western companies like Apple and Microsoft already do.

Bloatwares, such as WhatsApp and other Chinese and US apps, are installed automatically on my Chinese smartphones. This issue did not occur with my Samsung or IPhone smartphones. No matter how many times I un install them they will always get installed automatically. And Auto Install is disabled on all my smartphones.

@sepheronx

This is the pathology of the western public that became apparent when my family emigrated to the west. In the "totalitarian" USSR, people
did not believe the mass media reflexively like westerners believe the western media. This has changed somewhat over the last 50 years and
now people seek alternative media sources as things deteriorate, but the majority are still drinking the koolaid.

I have stopped consuming MSM content since it is nothing but a way to increase my cortisol level and deteriorate my health. When I was
younger it was easier to consume this shit but no longer. The quality of western MSM spew is simply horrible. People who drink this koolaid
will experience severe cognitive dissonance when faced with the truth. You should avoid trying to convince these lemmings. They can get
violent and will reflexively reject real evidence. Most people are not too bright to begin with, and that makes them dangerous. They need
reality to whip their sorry asses and maybe they will get a clue, but most will probably take their rabid ignorance to their graves.

sepheronx wrote:So I'm seeing propaganda first hand.

I came back from the US and wow, there are people here who told me:
- Russians are starving
- they lost their army
- all those weapons they are producing are fake amd all they got left is old Soviet stuff while new stuff all gone
- ukraines winning
- etc

When I told them that really isn't the case, do they get mad and say I'm just spreading Russian propaganda.

I mean, it's rather hard to understand why instead of talking normally and looking at both sides, instead they get super angry and aggressive for no reason.

I know the frustration.
I was raised in Germany, they got indoctrinated since childhood with following mantras...

-Our media is free and can not report lies, because it's not state run or owned....if they are found to have lied it was either a mistake, because they are humans or double think is activated and disregarded into another mental dimension.
- We were bad but now we are good and therefore what we do is good
- Russia bad because Putin is bad, everyone hates him and it's a dictatorship....if you show them that majority support him and vote for him it's always either russian propaganda and can not be true or they are stupid and got indoctrinated and only true russians are supporters of Navalny (they don't even know anyone else unless their MSM tells them)
- Russian troll fabrik story covers 99% of all arguements, because no "sane" person can say anything even remotely positive about Russia. It's a hardcore inhumane dictatorship and if you say something you disappear (where did we hear such stories before?)
- NATO is a defence alliance and is innocent (Russia is evil because it attacks everyone)

This cope and propaganda is so blatant I am amazed, I truly am. I am sitting right now next to the 5 times boostered pinnacle of human evolution. He believes everything he reads in German MSM. It's traumatizing to live in a such society and it feels like it's a Minefield especially since Germans are known to be absolute obeying of everything the leadership says and will have no hesitation to turn you in like back in the day, thus most people are behaving like they do in Ukraine. They shut up. You can not argue with zealots.

The NATzO west is the collection of states closer to real totalitarianism.   Not the cheesy 1984 variety but more like Brave New World, soft and comfortable.
At the end of the day it does not matter, you have cattle and cattle drivers.   The lack of independent thinking in the self-anointed "individualist" west is
striking.   The drivel spewed by the NATzO MSM is intellectually insulting but the masses lap this excrement up with relish.   That they got indoctrinated
from birth is pathetic.   Where were their parents?   For example, Germany has gone through a lot of political upheaval in the last 100 years, so there should
be some sort of generational memory of not drinking government/elite koolaid.   It is thanks to Russia's turbulent history that the population has a default
setting that makes it not particularly easy to govern.