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Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

ALAMO

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Post n°301

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

ALAMO Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:43 am

They did.
Took down some 109s, but we talk about some 12 pieces or something dunno

Irrelevant to the scale of a campaign.
Remember that Iraq was a friend to the US and west for a while already.
The good, looming time when they get the fancy stuff from the Soviet Union were gone in the beginning of the 80s.

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Hole

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Post n°302

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

Hole Mon Oct 17, 2022 4:45 am

Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 13 000110

Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 13 000293

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Tsavo Lion

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Post n°303

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

Tsavo Lion Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:17 am

Don't forget 4 F18 lost to mid air collisions , 1 F18 lost to s125, at least 5 , F16 lost to crashes or fire in 2003 alone, 1 F14, 1 F15, 1 Tornado, and assorted fixed wing and many helicopter losses

That's 12 dissimilar Western fighters lost in accidents, while 14 Su-34s shot down with unknown # lost in accidents, if any, since 2/24th.
Besides, E. Ukraine terrain & weather r identical/similar to S. Russia's, & not like the ME/S Asia in & around Iraq & Afghanistan.
Conclusion: the VKS isn't doing much worse, but could still do better.

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GarryB

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Post n°304

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

GarryB Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:28 pm

That's 12 dissimilar Western fighters lost in accidents, while 14 Su-34s shot down with unknown # lost in accidents, if any, since 2/24th.

12 confirmed lost compared with maybe two or three confirmed lost Su-34s... which might have been accidents too?

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ALAMO

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Post n°305

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

ALAMO Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:42 pm

GarryB wrote:

That's 12 dissimilar Western fighters lost in accidents, while 14 Su-34s shot down with unknown # lost in accidents, if any, since 2/24th.

12 confirmed lost compared with maybe two or three confirmed lost Su-34s... which might have been accidents too?

This thing is getting ridiculous either.
They are figuring out the "facts" only to share them, copy them, and quote them, later on, to make it "credible".
What reminds me of physically nonexisting titles, created only to "public" materials needed for "science research" in numbers, for $.

Yesterday I saw some posts about Pantsir, and how it was lost in a big number ... here on this forum, but can't find that now.

The point is, that we have documented the loss of a FEW Pantsir.

In more than a DECADE of those being used in armed conflicts, with quite serious opponents.

Including some materials obviously faked, like quite widely known of "Syrian" piece "destroyed" with Bayraktar, where the film shows a classic vehicle observed, turning to be Omanian one after the strike.
Or lost due to an obvious negligence where those are being parked in a wide open after run out of ammo.

Each and any single case is widely documented and spread after that for propaganda purposes, but in reality, proves only an absolute rarity of the cases themselves and how much the propagandist expects the sole case to happen.

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Tsavo Lion

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Post n°306

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:12 am

12 confirmed lost compared with maybe two or three confirmed lost Su-34s... which might have been accidents too?

It's staring u in the face: https://www.key.aero/article/russia-has-lost-more-10-its-su-34-fullback-fleet-ukraine-ops

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/aircraft-crashes-into-residential-building-russian-city-yeysk-agencies-2022-10-17/

https://www.fontanka.ru/2022/10/17/71743127/

as of 3/22: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/03/list-of-aircraft-losses-during-2022.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Russian_aircraft_losses_2

a lot more Ka-52s & Mi-28s lost than some1 here willing to accept!

https://www.businessinsider.com/whats-known-about-russian-and-ukraine-losses-in-aerial-combat-2022-9

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flamming_python

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Post n°307

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

flamming_python Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:26 am

Tsavo Lion wrote:

12 confirmed lost compared with maybe two or three confirmed lost Su-34s... which might have been accidents too?

It's staring u in the face: https://www.key.aero/article/russia-has-lost-more-10-its-su-34-fullback-fleet-ukraine-ops

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/aircraft-crashes-into-residential-building-russian-city-yeysk-agencies-2022-10-17/

https://www.fontanka.ru/2022/10/17/71743127/

as of 3/22: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/03/list-of-aircraft-losses-during-2022.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Russian_aircraft_losses_2

a lot more Ka-52s & Mi-28s lost than some1 here willing to accept!

https://www.businessinsider.com/whats-known-about-russian-and-ukraine-losses-in-aerial-combat-2022-9

Is there a particular reason why you're posting Western war propaganda?

Or are you subscribing to their pretext of objectivity here?

Nonetheless, losses are heavy, with at least 49 Russian warplanes confirmed lost as of August 30, and 37 Ukrainian.

Should Soviet citizens have lapped up Nazi German reports about their casualties too?

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Mir

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Post n°308

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

Mir Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:28 am

Tsavo Lion wrote:
It's staring u in the face: https://www.key.aero/article/russia-has-lost-more-10-its-su-34-fullback-fleet-ukraine-ops

All the sources you quote are pro-ukr. Wikipedia's sources are mainly Oryx and Forbes.
I can almost guarantee you that Oryx has far-right (Nazi) South African roots.

Oryx is an African antelope - and SA's upgraded Puma helicopter has that name.
Spioenkop (Afrikaans) refers to a famous battle in the Anglo-Boer War.

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AMCXXL

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Post n°309

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

AMCXXL Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:45 am

Su-34 crashed in the city of Yeisk after taking off from the naval air base

https://t.me/sashakots/36629
According to my information, the Su-34 of the 277th BAP still fell. So far, the main version is that birds get into the engines on takeoff. The pilots ejected. Possible casualties among local residents. There were no rockets on the plane, but there were shells for the cannon. Their detonation can be heard on video.

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ALAMO

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Post n°310

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

ALAMO Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:48 am

Two civilians dead and 11 were hospitalized.
One of the engines was reported on fire.

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Tsavo Lion

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Post n°311

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:31 am

flamming_python wrote:Is there a particular reason why you're posting Western war propaganda? Or are you subscribing to their pretext of objectivity here?

I present multiple sources- every1 is free to make their own conllusions. Western sources r not all pro-Ukr. & many r neutral. If I was posting Russian sources on a Ukr. forum, I would be accused of posting russian propaganda there for sure.

Should Soviet citizens have lapped up Nazi German reports about their casualties too?

most Soviets didn't have access to German media then; if they had & the NKVD found out, every1 knew what would happen to them, so they kept their thoughts to themselves.

Isos

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Post n°312

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

Isos Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:39 am

ALAMO wrote:Two civilians dead and 11 were hospitalized.
One of the engines was reported on fire.

They sell two engine fighter as safer than sinhle engines because they can run on one engine.

There plenty of cases of 1 engine not working of the two but that led to a crash.

That's why single engine jet like su-75 need to be bought. Twin engines are more expensive and not necessarely safer.

Hole

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Post n°313

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

Hole Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:40 am

ALAMO wrote:Two civilians dead and 11 were hospitalized.
One of the engines was reported on fire.

Waiting for the UkroNazis to declare that the birds were specially trained to do this by the SBU aka Gestapo.

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AMCXXL

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Post n°314

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

AMCXXL Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:16 am

Isos wrote:

ALAMO wrote:Two civilians dead and 11 were hospitalized.
One of the engines was reported on fire.

They sell two engine fighter as safer than sinhle engines because they can run on one engine.

There plenty of cases of 1 engine not working of the two but that led to a crash.

That's why single engine jet like su-75 need to be bought. Twin engines are more expensive and not necessarely safer.

the Su-34 had just taken off and did not have enough height or speed, it lost an engine, probably because of a bird (the base is just on the seashore). there was no time to go back, the same thing happened in Syria with a Su-30
The problem with the Yeisk base is that the runway ends right on the edge of the city and has fallen on top of a block of flats. The amount of fire is due to having the fuel tank completely full

IF you had lost an engine in normal flight conditions or even had an engine hit with a Manpad, there would be no problem for landing with one single engine.
The moment of takeoff, just when leaving the runway, is the most critical moment. It is also a very large and heavy aircraft.

Last edited by AMCXXL on Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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Arkanghelsk

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Post n°315

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

Arkanghelsk Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:16 am

Tsavo Lion wrote:
I present multiple sources- every1 is free to make their own conllusions. Western sources r not all pro-Ukr. & many r neutral. If I was posting Russian sources on a Ukr. forum, I would be accused of posting russian propaganda there for sure.

You are posting straight propaganda, 15 su34 with no proof

We have only seen 7 at most lost , the 15 is a made up number from some source which claimed that 25% of a regiment was shot down

Again there is nothing to substantiate that number

----

The numbers will be released when the war is over,

In the end, we still can say su34 outperformed in an environment where the air defense was many times more effective than the environment in Iraq

As for crashes, the su34 is worked hard, with such few numbers , they need more planes to rotate those planes and give them less use

We have seen numerous engine flameouts and loss of power

Including the one lost over Kharkov some weeks ago

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Tsavo Lion

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Post n°316

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:27 am

The 1st source I posted claims to have done an independent study- how would they benefit by posting inaccurate/false data?
Even after the war, as history shows, there will be conflicting reports & statistics of how many were lost, by type/whom, & by what reason.

limb

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Post n°317

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

limb Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:34 am

How many Su-34Ms have been put into service? Can we hope to see them firing salvos of 12-20 LMURs?

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Tsavo Lion

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Post n°318

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

Tsavo Lion Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:07 pm

..just 10 or fewer Su-34Ms in existence,

Among the confirmed losses are at least 11 other Su-34s, though none of the previous losses were of advanced Su-34Ms. Earlier iteration Su-34s are often valued at between $35 and $40 million, making their losses similarly difficult to swallow for the increasingly cash-strapped Kremlin.

So, 12+1 shot down by own AD+1 recently crashed in Eisk=14; as my earlier quote was 14, this crash adds 1 more, so it's at least 15.

It WAS a good plane: https://t.me/vestiukr/51705?single

https://korrespondent.net/world/4527120-padenye-su-34-na-mnohoetazhku-v-rossyiskom-eiske-poiavylys-foto

I doubt they'll put helo missiles on it!

Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:37 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add text, links)

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Mir

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Post n°319

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

Mir Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:36 pm

making their losses similarly difficult to swallow for the increasingly cash-strapped Kremlin.

Yes war is an expensive business, but it has it's "up" side as well with job creation and radically increased production levels as a major stimulus to the economy. I would think as a US citizen you should know that?!

The Ruble as well as the oil price are sitting pretty so in my book this war is currently a win-win situation for the Russians whilst the EU is bleeding.

Also the Su-34 losses are not nice but the thing is they are currently being produced well. The poor people who lost their lives in the latest incident is much worse than the loss of the aircraft.

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sepheronx

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Post n°320

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

sepheronx Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:55 pm

it just means more work and purchases to NAPO for more Su-34's. Its unfortunate but it happens.

The Russians are far from being cash strapped. Actually, they seem to be swimming in money and unsure how to use it all.

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ALAMO

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Post n°321

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

ALAMO Wed Oct 19, 2022 5:45 pm

sepheronx wrote:it just means more work and purchases to NAPO for more Su-34's. Its unfortunate but it happens.
The Russians are far from being cash strapped. Actually, they seem to be swimming in money and unsure how to use it all.

Calling a country with a surplus budget, one of the lowest debt ratios on the planet, and owning giant reserves "cash strapped" is just direct proof of the irreversible brain dysfunction of an author.

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sepheronx

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Post n°322

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

sepheronx Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:28 pm

ALAMO wrote:

sepheronx wrote:it just means more work and purchases to NAPO for more Su-34's. Its unfortunate but it happens.
The Russians are far from being cash strapped. Actually, they seem to be swimming in money and unsure how to use it all.

Calling a country with a surplus budget, one of the lowest debt ratios on the planet, and owning giant reserves "cash strapped" is just direct proof of the irreversible brain dysfunction of an author.

And the members who spread it

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AMCXXL

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Post n°323

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

AMCXXL Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:07 pm

Su-34 crashed in Yeisk is RF-81726 Nº20

Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 13 17115712

Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 13 17115312

According to Aviation-Safety, the confirmed losses of the Su-34 in the Special Military Operation are 12 in total:
Other 2 claims are only ukrainian claims with no evidence

RF-81259 Nº05 28-feb 2º BAP
RF-81251 Nº31 03-mar 277º BAP
RF-81879 Nº24 05-mar 2º BAP
RF-95070 Nº06 06-mar 47º BAP
RF-95010 Nº35 14-mar 559º BAP
RF-95858 Nº43 21-apr 559º BAP
RF-95808 Nº24 25-apr 47º BAP
RF-95846 Nº16 18-may 968º IISAP / 4º TsBP
RF-95890 Nº51 17-jul 277º BAP
RF-95004 Nº20 10 sep 47º BAP
RF-81852 Nº09 02-oct 2º BAP
RF-81726 Nº20 17-oct 277º BAP

By regiment:
3 Voronezh
2 Morozovsk
3 Chelyabisnk
3 Khurba
1 Lipetsk

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Hole

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Post n°324

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

Hole Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:13 pm

This just means that the next contract for the Su-34M will get bigger.

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ALAMO

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Post n°325

Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

ALAMO Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:20 pm

And take a look at the dates.
Most of them lost early in war, when Ukr still had a functioning AD deployed.
Now imagine we talk a few hundreds of different weapon systems they had there that Russkie supressed&destroyed.
How NATO is going to replace them?
Will they even find 500 pieces of AD weapons in the entire NATO if stripping themselves to zero? Laughing

It didn't impress Russkies back then, so why should now? Laughing

Even if they will be able to deliver a 1/10th of the numbers Ukrs had back in Feb/March/April ... What does it change?

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