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In the last day I heard a lot about problems with "Yudashkin" uniform. Somebody have experience whith this uniform?
The problem is real o is a b****t of press?
Thanks
The problem is real o is a b****t of press?
Thanks
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33 posters
Russian Military Uniforms and Clothing
mandeb48- Posts : 3
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Location : Argentine
GarryB- Posts : 37794
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Very good question.
Would like to know the answer myself.
Have seen a documentary on Stalingrad where the makers took one guy and put him in a nazi uniform and into the back of a refrigerated truck at something like -15 degrees C for 5 or ten minutes. They got him to do a couple of simple tests to check reaction time and ability to assemble small components before and after. They also filmed him with a thermal camera to show areas of heat loss. They then repeated it all with the same guy in a Soviet uniform.
The guys comments were that the nazi uniform looked better, with a better fit and a better "cut" and "lines", but it was poorly designed for the cold. The Soviet uniform almost looked scruffy but he said it was very comfortable and had useful features like gloves with fingers that had a cover that went over all the fingers in a double layer to cover all the fingers again but with a slit opening near the trigger finger so you could slip your trigger finger only out to fire a weapon while the rest of your fingers had two layer protection and your trigger finger had one layer of wool over it.
The performance tests clearly showed they reduced the effect of cold on the soldier by a significant degree.
What I would like to know is have they gone to far to make the new uniform look pretty and tidy at the expense of making it warm and comfortable?
AFAIK the designer guy worked with the uniform making companies so they would have made sure it did what was required in the cold and wet.
So anyone with experience with the new uniforms?
Would like to know the answer myself.
Have seen a documentary on Stalingrad where the makers took one guy and put him in a nazi uniform and into the back of a refrigerated truck at something like -15 degrees C for 5 or ten minutes. They got him to do a couple of simple tests to check reaction time and ability to assemble small components before and after. They also filmed him with a thermal camera to show areas of heat loss. They then repeated it all with the same guy in a Soviet uniform.
The guys comments were that the nazi uniform looked better, with a better fit and a better "cut" and "lines", but it was poorly designed for the cold. The Soviet uniform almost looked scruffy but he said it was very comfortable and had useful features like gloves with fingers that had a cover that went over all the fingers in a double layer to cover all the fingers again but with a slit opening near the trigger finger so you could slip your trigger finger only out to fire a weapon while the rest of your fingers had two layer protection and your trigger finger had one layer of wool over it.
The performance tests clearly showed they reduced the effect of cold on the soldier by a significant degree.
What I would like to know is have they gone to far to make the new uniform look pretty and tidy at the expense of making it warm and comfortable?
AFAIK the designer guy worked with the uniform making companies so they would have made sure it did what was required in the cold and wet.
So anyone with experience with the new uniforms?
brainhunter- Posts : 1
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Join date : 2011-08-22
Also You can see Russian uniforms here:
http://www.Soviet-Power.com
http://www.Soviet-Power.com
Pervius- Posts : 224
Points : 240
Join date : 2011-03-08
GarryB wrote:Very good question.
Would like to know the answer myself.
Have seen a documentary on Stalingrad where the makers took one guy and put him in a nazi uniform and into the back of a refrigerated truck at something like -15 degrees C for 5 or ten minutes. They got him to do a couple of simple tests to check reaction time and ability to assemble small components before and after. They also filmed him with a thermal camera to show areas of heat loss. They then repeated it all with the same guy in a Soviet uniform.
The guys comments were that the nazi uniform looked better, with a better fit and a better "cut" and "lines", but it was poorly designed for the cold. The Soviet uniform almost looked scruffy but he said it was very comfortable and had useful features like gloves with fingers that had a cover that went over all the fingers in a double layer to cover all the fingers again but with a slit opening near the trigger finger so you could slip your trigger finger only out to fire a weapon while the rest of your fingers had two layer protection and your trigger finger had one layer of wool over it.
The performance tests clearly showed they reduced the effect of cold on the soldier by a significant degree.
What I would like to know is have they gone to far to make the new uniform look pretty and tidy at the expense of making it warm and comfortable?
AFAIK the designer guy worked with the uniform making companies so they would have made sure it did what was required in the cold and wet.
So anyone with experience with the new uniforms?
Russians design things for function. Americans design things for .......to look good on CNN....or which retired Admiral/General/Politician gets rich buying worthless crap uniform gear.
Does the Russian military gear consist of Chinese made baseball caps? ha ha ha!
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
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mandeb48 wrote:In the last day I heard a lot about problems with "Yudashkin" uniform. Somebody have experience whith this uniform?
The problem is real o is a b****t of press?
Thanks
There were complaints about not providing enough protection from the Russian winter.
A new winter uniform has just been shown. They claim the soldier can sleep for 4 hours in the open (at -40 deg) and in a snowdrift without a negative effect on his health.
(in Rus)
Russian soldiers will be able to sleep in snowdrifts
http://www.dni.ru/society/2011/10/20/220875.html
There's some info on the new uniform here:
http://twower.livejournal.com/660453.html
GarryB- Posts : 37794
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Thanks Cyberspec.
In that first link it mentions that some uniforms issued to personnel that operate electronics will have protection from microwaves... very interesting.
In that first link it mentions that some uniforms issued to personnel that operate electronics will have protection from microwaves... very interesting.
flamming_python- Posts : 8991
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The 'Yudashkin' uniform - is a fking piece of crap.
Far cheaper material and quality than the uniform its replacing (Flora). The clothes are just sewn badly together; the velcro straps on the shirts and coats are particularly prone to falling apart. Trousers rip easily at the seams. Buttons fall off all the damn time on both the coats and shirts, you would be spending a good amount of your free time each week sewing them back on. Material is thin on the shirts and trousers. And to top it off - many people just look ridiculous in it.
In fact there even seem to be several different 'versions' of the Yudashkin, some where the seams are weaker between the pant legs, and some where the pockets on the side of the trousers are very poorly nitted and prone to being ripped off from the rest. lol
None of these problems were apparent on the Flora uniforms with their thick, rugged material, button fasteners as opposed to velcro straps, far greater quality and resilience. Another point with the Yudashkin uniform is that it stains very easily, it becomes dark and oily very quickly even just carrying out basic day to day activities and labour (never mind any sort of dirty work or exercises). In comparison - the Flora uniform you don't have to end up washing it nearly as often.
As for the Yudashkin Coat - it's fine at anything above -15 or even -20, but anything below and you're starting to get into trouble. The Flora pattern coat offered considerably better protection against the cold.
There are many units (especially in the far north and I would imagine Siberia too) where the quarter-masters/sergeant-majors simply gave out the old uniforms (on request) to soldiers/sailors who arrived in the new ones and asked for the old. In some units the whole barracks was changed back into the old uniforms altogether.
Another problem (more of an administrative fk-up really), is that no-one is exactly sure how to wear the new uniforms (there are no official guidelines apparently), so every unit does it differently! Some with the belt around the waist on top of the coat (as with the Flora uniform), some with the belt kept on the trousers and the coat on top. Some with unit patches/chevrons sewn onto to shirts and coats, some without because the new uniform seems to be quite unsuitable for shoulder-worn unit/forces patches (what with the small amount of space, shoulder rank slides and everything). There seems to be a shortage of appropriate rank-slides to match the digital-camo scheme (only Flora are in circulation), so if you are promoted you either have to go to a shop and search around or make your own like I did by taking a metal rank pin from one of the Flora slides and securing it to a blank digital-camo rank slide.
Keep in mind that these are all of the issues as of 2010/2011, when the camo was just introduced. Perhaps they are fixing the problems and releasing new versions by now.
Heard absolutely nothing about this - must be something very new.
Far cheaper material and quality than the uniform its replacing (Flora). The clothes are just sewn badly together; the velcro straps on the shirts and coats are particularly prone to falling apart. Trousers rip easily at the seams. Buttons fall off all the damn time on both the coats and shirts, you would be spending a good amount of your free time each week sewing them back on. Material is thin on the shirts and trousers. And to top it off - many people just look ridiculous in it.
In fact there even seem to be several different 'versions' of the Yudashkin, some where the seams are weaker between the pant legs, and some where the pockets on the side of the trousers are very poorly nitted and prone to being ripped off from the rest. lol
None of these problems were apparent on the Flora uniforms with their thick, rugged material, button fasteners as opposed to velcro straps, far greater quality and resilience. Another point with the Yudashkin uniform is that it stains very easily, it becomes dark and oily very quickly even just carrying out basic day to day activities and labour (never mind any sort of dirty work or exercises). In comparison - the Flora uniform you don't have to end up washing it nearly as often.
As for the Yudashkin Coat - it's fine at anything above -15 or even -20, but anything below and you're starting to get into trouble. The Flora pattern coat offered considerably better protection against the cold.
There are many units (especially in the far north and I would imagine Siberia too) where the quarter-masters/sergeant-majors simply gave out the old uniforms (on request) to soldiers/sailors who arrived in the new ones and asked for the old. In some units the whole barracks was changed back into the old uniforms altogether.
Another problem (more of an administrative fk-up really), is that no-one is exactly sure how to wear the new uniforms (there are no official guidelines apparently), so every unit does it differently! Some with the belt around the waist on top of the coat (as with the Flora uniform), some with the belt kept on the trousers and the coat on top. Some with unit patches/chevrons sewn onto to shirts and coats, some without because the new uniform seems to be quite unsuitable for shoulder-worn unit/forces patches (what with the small amount of space, shoulder rank slides and everything). There seems to be a shortage of appropriate rank-slides to match the digital-camo scheme (only Flora are in circulation), so if you are promoted you either have to go to a shop and search around or make your own like I did by taking a metal rank pin from one of the Flora slides and securing it to a blank digital-camo rank slide.
Keep in mind that these are all of the issues as of 2010/2011, when the camo was just introduced. Perhaps they are fixing the problems and releasing new versions by now.
GarryB wrote:Thanks Cyberspec.
In that first link it mentions that some uniforms issued to personnel that operate electronics will have protection from microwaves... very interesting.
Heard absolutely nothing about this - must be something very new.
Last edited by flamming_python on Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
GarryB- Posts : 37794
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I hope the military take notice of the soldiers in the field voting with their feet and going back to the old uniform.
It is really something they need to get right... especially in Russia.
BTW thanks for sharing your experience... you have probably noticed I am a bit of an optimist so real experience... even negative is good to keep things in perspective as it promotes change and solutions.
It is really something they need to get right... especially in Russia.
BTW thanks for sharing your experience... you have probably noticed I am a bit of an optimist so real experience... even negative is good to keep things in perspective as it promotes change and solutions.
Mr.Kalishnikov47- Posts : 293
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What is this camo
It looks very odd, almost like some strange variation of Surpat.
It looks very odd, almost like some strange variation of Surpat.
GarryB- Posts : 37794
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Russian camo makers come out with all sorts of camo combinations and colours, but unless you see it on a guy known to be part of a specific unit it might not be official.
The other factor is that paramilitary organisations have different uniform/camo sets too so border patrol might have 4-5 sets for different regions/seasons etc.
The other factor is that paramilitary organisations have different uniform/camo sets too so border patrol might have 4-5 sets for different regions/seasons etc.
flamming_python- Posts : 8991
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http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/18085/
Now this is more like it...
Just from a quick glance (haven't bothered to read it all yet), I can see that that the design has improved in a few areas compared to the 1st digital camo version (Yudashkin uniform). It's mostly just a bunch of little things, but they add up..
Then again.. the design wasn't the main problem of the 1st version; it was the poor materials used and its shoddy quality - correcting these drawbacks is a far higher priority than the design changes; although certainly if you're going to have a new edition you might as well improve on the old one on the drawing board too.
The most critical problem (both in design and in its implementation) was the 1st digital uniform's poor protection against the cold, which basically made it impractical for units in the Arctic or Siberian regions. It seems that they decided to solve that problem with the use of multiple layers; unless my eyes deceive me.
I know that the 1st edition of the Yudashkin uniform was manufactured in a different place to that of the Flora pattern uniform was (which had its heyday around 2004 or so unless I'm wrong). It could be an idea to bring production back to the old factory if its still around; they seemed to have very high standards.
Now this is more like it...
Just from a quick glance (haven't bothered to read it all yet), I can see that that the design has improved in a few areas compared to the 1st digital camo version (Yudashkin uniform). It's mostly just a bunch of little things, but they add up..
Then again.. the design wasn't the main problem of the 1st version; it was the poor materials used and its shoddy quality - correcting these drawbacks is a far higher priority than the design changes; although certainly if you're going to have a new edition you might as well improve on the old one on the drawing board too.
The most critical problem (both in design and in its implementation) was the 1st digital uniform's poor protection against the cold, which basically made it impractical for units in the Arctic or Siberian regions. It seems that they decided to solve that problem with the use of multiple layers; unless my eyes deceive me.
I know that the 1st edition of the Yudashkin uniform was manufactured in a different place to that of the Flora pattern uniform was (which had its heyday around 2004 or so unless I'm wrong). It could be an idea to bring production back to the old factory if its still around; they seemed to have very high standards.
Mr.Kalishnikov47- Posts : 293
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flamming_python wrote:http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/18085/
That's actually not bad at all. Is it just me or did they also change the camo somewhat by adding a little more brown and black?
flamming_python- Posts : 8991
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Double post :S
Last edited by flamming_python on Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total
flamming_python- Posts : 8991
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Mr.Kalishnikov47 wrote:flamming_python wrote:http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/18085/
That's actually not bad at all. Is it just me or did they also change the camo somewhat by adding a little more brown and black?
It's hard to tell, maybe they slightly altered the pattern - but certainly nothing significant. I'm not sure that there is even a difference at all. The first edition of this costume actually consisted of 2 different colour schemes; the differences were very subtle but when the uniform corresponding to one of them was put next to a uniform corresponding to the other one - you could tell the difference. But just from a glance or casual observation - no. Same with this one I suppose; would need a copy of something from the old uniform to put side-by-side in order to compare. The summer caps look exactly the same - in any case.
Anyway dude, if you actually ever wore this uniform - you would quickly realise that the pattern would be very far down the priority list on things to improve
TR1- Posts : 5438
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http://reibert.info/forum/picture.php?albumid=2415&pictureid=264980
Python this is you right?
:p
Python this is you right?
:p
Mr.Kalishnikov47- Posts : 293
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[quote="flamming_python"]
That bad huh?
EDIT: Or did you just mean the camo pattern works really well?
Mr.Kalishnikov47 wrote:Anyway dude, if you actually ever wore this uniform - you would quickly realise that the pattern would be very far down the priority list on things to improveflamming_python wrote:http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/18085/
That bad huh?
EDIT: Or did you just mean the camo pattern works really well?
GarryB- Posts : 37794
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hahahahaha TR1... that is certainly a flaming something...
I have very poor skills regarding uniform patterns but this stuff looks a little German to me.
Not that that is a bad thing... if it works then use it...
I have very poor skills regarding uniform patterns but this stuff looks a little German to me.
Not that that is a bad thing... if it works then use it...
flamming_python- Posts : 8991
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TR1 wrote:http://reibert.info/forum/picture.php?albumid=2415&pictureid=264980
Python this is you right?
:p
LOL now why would you go and say something like that, TR1?
Guy even looks strangely familiar for some reason. Christ.
This is me in my 'dembel' costume by the way:
https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img341/7987/29997110150897099100613.jpg
As you can see I skipped on all the pimpin'; most that I wanted to do is get myself a white leather belt, but in the end I didn't even get around to that. I was awarded a certificate/diploma for my service, which gave me the right to buy and wear a badge commemorating 30 years of my unit on my parade uniform. I didn't even get that - which is something I ended up regretting later on. Could have come home as a decorated war hero, after all
I just focussed on the essentials; making sure that my rank slides, chevrons and unit patches were sown on or secured perfectly and at exactly the right angles, and steam-ironing and cleaning my coat and uniform to oblivion. Think I made enough of an impression, although mind you - for those lads that served 2-3 years back in the day, I think that they should be afforded the right to wear whatever the hell they want on their last day without any criticism and laughter.
flamming_python- Posts : 8991
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Mr.Kalishnikov47 wrote:That bad huh?
EDIT: Or did you just mean the camo pattern works really well?
I mostly meant that it's just that bad
The camo itself works well enough from my experience. I hid behind behind a rock, and another time lay down between some bushes in an otherwise fairly open view and no-one saw me for shit. But then the same is pretty much true with the Flora pattern too; main thing is just to keep still.
But the actual camo pattern, is simply spoilt by the poor material used. Give it a few good washes, and it will fade considerably. If you ever spill diesel fuel on your uniform like I did, and then have to give it a thorough, hard scrub over the space of the next two hours - well then you can forget about your little brown and black squares and what not - it will fade into a roughly homogenous green paste and then you can kiss your 'advanced' digital patterns goodbye. Conversely, if you don't wash it at all, the uniform, pretty damn quickly, becomes blackened, oily, and even slightly reflective. A reflective uniform - yeah great.
Anyway though - to be honest the camo characteristics of an army uniform barely even matter; at least in the Russian army. What matters is everything else - the vast majority of your time is not spent running around a field or hiding in the bushes, it's shoveling snow, performing some manual labour somewhere, sowing shut all the tears at the seems caused by shoddy quality, or doing physical exercise while having to worry about a new hole ripping open, etc...
TR1- Posts : 5438
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flamming_python wrote:TR1 wrote:http://reibert.info/forum/picture.php?albumid=2415&pictureid=264980
Python this is you right?
:p
LOL now why would you go and say something like that, TR1?
Guy even looks strangely familiar for some reason. Christ.
This is me in my 'dembel' costume by the way:
https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img341/7987/29997110150897099100613.jpg
As you can see I skipped on all the pimpin'; most that I wanted to do is get myself a white leather belt, but in the end I didn't even get around to that. I was awarded a certificate/diploma for my service, which gave me the right to buy and wear a badge commemorating 30 years of my unit on my parade uniform. I didn't even get that - which is something I ended up regretting later on. Could have come home as a decorated war hero, after all
I just focussed on the essentials; making sure that my rank slides, chevrons and unit patches were sown on or secured perfectly and at exactly the right angles, and steam-ironing and cleaning my coat and uniform to oblivion. Think I made enough of an impression, although mind you - for those lads that served 2-3 years back in the day, I think that they should be afforded the right to wear whatever the hell they want on their last day without any criticism and laughter.
Haha, I had to post that when I saw it.
Nice photos Python, you are a true non smiling Russian.
How was your service all in all anyways- you were in for 1 year right?
flamming_python- Posts : 8991
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TR1 wrote:flamming_python wrote:TR1 wrote:http://reibert.info/forum/picture.php?albumid=2415&pictureid=264980
Python this is you right?
:p
LOL now why would you go and say something like that, TR1?
Guy even looks strangely familiar for some reason. Christ.
This is me in my 'dembel' costume by the way:
https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img341/7987/29997110150897099100613.jpg
As you can see I skipped on all the pimpin'; most that I wanted to do is get myself a white leather belt, but in the end I didn't even get around to that. I was awarded a certificate/diploma for my service, which gave me the right to buy and wear a badge commemorating 30 years of my unit on my parade uniform. I didn't even get that - which is something I ended up regretting later on. Could have come home as a decorated war hero, after all
I just focussed on the essentials; making sure that my rank slides, chevrons and unit patches were sown on or secured perfectly and at exactly the right angles, and steam-ironing and cleaning my coat and uniform to oblivion. Think I made enough of an impression, although mind you - for those lads that served 2-3 years back in the day, I think that they should be afforded the right to wear whatever the hell they want on their last day without any criticism and laughter.
Haha, I had to post that when I saw it.
It's a shame you're not on mp.net anymore. If you were, you wouldn't have missed things like this
Nice photos Python, you are a true non smiling Russian.
Don't mind me, I'm just getting my war face on
I got an even meaner one involving a bayonet knife tooYep 1 year. I don't know what to tell you. Mostly it's just a matter of going there to find out for yourself. I will try to tell you for example; that it's mostly just a big, big load of nothing, but I suspect that only if you find yourself in the military one day will you fully understand what I meanHow was your service all in all anyways- you were in for 1 year right?
Mr.Kalishnikov47- Posts : 293
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Do any of you know which pattern this is?
Also, I've been seeing this question pop up a lot lately on other sites and nobody ever seems to give a real answer.
What are the advantages the Russian green digital pattern has over normal OD green? Because it seems that if you back up a
couple of steps then the camo just looks plain green.
I have to say I agree with the people asking, the pixels on that uniform are way too small. Then again it may appear to simply look green from a distance do to the resolution of the pictures, I don't know. Either way I kind of wish they would have stuck with Flora, or maybe switched to a more effective looking pattern like SURPAT, or that desert digital uniform who's name I keep forgetting.
Also, I've been seeing this question pop up a lot lately on other sites and nobody ever seems to give a real answer.
What are the advantages the Russian green digital pattern has over normal OD green? Because it seems that if you back up a
couple of steps then the camo just looks plain green.
I have to say I agree with the people asking, the pixels on that uniform are way too small. Then again it may appear to simply look green from a distance do to the resolution of the pictures, I don't know. Either way I kind of wish they would have stuck with Flora, or maybe switched to a more effective looking pattern like SURPAT, or that desert digital uniform who's name I keep forgetting.
Last edited by Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:20 am; edited 1 time in total
GarryB- Posts : 37794
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It is my understanding that the idea behind digital camo is to appear to be noise on a night vision device to make the soldiers outline more difficult to determine. Even if you can see the soldier sometimes it is useful if their outline is hard to spot because you don't just have to see the soldier, you have to identify them as a soldier and an enemy soldier to. A person without camo with a clear defined outline means you can estimate distance and determine the direction of travel (if the target is moving) more accurately.
I remember reading a post about modern camouflage with a demonstration set of photos that showed through night vision equipment some patterns were very effective, while others were useless.
I remember reading a post about modern camouflage with a demonstration set of photos that showed through night vision equipment some patterns were very effective, while others were useless.
Mr.Kalishnikov47- Posts : 293
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The only problem is that the pixels on the Russian uniform are much too small, and from any distance appear to be one solid color, which means it isn't really breaking up the silhouette of the person wearing it, or at least not any more than any other OD green uniform.
As far as it's effectiveness against night vision equipment, awhile back I saw pictures of it through a night vision scope compared to a normal flora uniform. I will admit it was harder to spot.
As far as it's effectiveness against night vision equipment, awhile back I saw pictures of it through a night vision scope compared to a normal flora uniform. I will admit it was harder to spot.
flamming_python- Posts : 8991
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Mr.Kalishnikov47 wrote:
Soldier on the right is wearing a cap from the new digi uniform we're discussing. That's all I can tell you.
Mr.Kalishnikov47 wrote:The only problem is that the pixels on the Russian uniform are much too small, and from any distance appear to be one solid color, which means it isn't really breaking up the silhouette of the person wearing it, or at least not any more than any other OD green uniform.
It's fine, it just looks like that in the photos that's all (and when its faded to shit too).
Of course I haven't seen any other digi camos in real life, so I can't really give a fair comparison.
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