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    Sukhoi LTS "Checkmate" #2

    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS 16/08/23, 10:04 am

    Pictures of unmanned LTS

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    Post  TMA1 16/08/23, 10:49 am

    If Russia doesnt make the su-75 they should all be tried for crimes against me. Give me my su-75 pls.

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    Post  Broski 16/08/23, 12:03 pm

    I wonder if an unmanned Su-75 would make the Okhotnik redundant or if they're different enough to both find a place in the RuAF?
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    Post  caveat emptor 16/08/23, 02:04 pm

    Let's not jump the gun prematurely. Okhotnik is almost done with state tests and serial production is supposed to start next year, while Su-75 is still, very much, a paper project.
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    Post  thegopnik 16/08/23, 02:34 pm

    you sound like you don't have faith in the Su-75, please elaborate

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    Post  GarryB 16/08/23, 03:03 pm

    Actually I think the drone version of the Checkmate is going to be not that much cheaper than the manned version which is very respectable in price for a 5th gen light fighter but still very expensive for a drone.

    An unmanned version might make sense if you also buy the manned aircraft in large numbers because the commonality of parts and systems and equipment would be useful, but I really don't see it being useful except perhaps making a fighter aircraft able to operate as a fighter that can perform manouvers that would kill a human, but then for that you wouldn't use the manned aircraft as a base because obviously the manned version wont be designed to pull 20 gs or more.

    The unmanned version looks interesting, like the unmanned option for the Yak-130 but like that it will be cheaper to design a custom designed drone that is optimised to fly higher and longer and cheaper/more efficiently.

    Most HALES and MALES look like gliders for a reason.

    Of course I suspect lack of openly mentioned contracts or sales for Su-75 lead to some to think it wont go anywhere, but remember not too long ago the Indians were paying for the Su-57 to be made so when they cancelled their purchase the Su-57 was going to be cancelled, and of course Armata was going to be cancelled and Kurganets and Boomerang because of engine problems and all sorts of other made up shit, because the Russian economy is collapsing didn't you realise?

    The Su-75 looks like it will kick F-35 arse and you will get four Su-75s for the price of one F-35, but more importantly those four Su-75s will cost maybe a total of 16K per hour operating costs compared with 90K per hour for each British F-35... and that is US dollar equivalent compared with UK Pounds (ie US 16K vs 90K UK pounds per hour operational costs).

    I have said before that I think MiG are probably making the light 5th gen fighter for the Russian military and it is probably funded properly now, but the Su-75 would be popular in a lot of countries because there is currently no competition for light 5th gen fighters... Europe has projects but nothing from any company with a track record of getting a 5th gen fighter into service and operational like Sukhoi has. And America has the F-35 which still doesn't work properly after over 600 in service at over 100 million an airframe... WTF are they doing with all the money they are making?

    Does not seem to be going into the product or future developments... the most powerful industry in the US remains Powerpoint based.

    Okhotnik and Orion and that Sukhoi S-62 look rather interesting and are probably more mature than a drone based on a fighter aircraft.

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    Post  TMA1 16/08/23, 03:50 pm

    I think it will be made but I think there might be initial funding problems and Russia will have to foot the bill at first.
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    Post  Backman 16/08/23, 03:56 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:Let's not jump the gun prematurely. Okhotnik is almost done with state tests and serial production is supposed to start next year, while Su-75 is still, very much, a paper project.

    The su-75 is more than a paper project with a full scale static prototype. The company deserves credit for actually making a prototype and putting a real design in place. The FCAS is a paper project. And I wish it wasn't. I wish the EU could at least get something in the su-75 stage so we'd have something to look at. But nope. That's too difficult for them I guess.


    Last edited by Backman on 16/08/23, 04:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Backman 16/08/23, 04:01 pm

    I had to check Wikipedia just for some laughs.

    Su-75 Checkmate development could be delayed due to international sanctions[16] on Russia, and Russia could not import semiconductors[17] and high-tech machining equipment from the European Union.[18] The potential export sales also stalled because Russia cannot trade using U.S. dollars.[19]

    It is almost like The Drive comment section is in charge of the Wikipedia file.

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    Post  sepheronx 16/08/23, 04:58 pm

    Well, it's quite simple really, not many people really know that Russia has its own semiconductor industry, and are not even aware what kind of chips are used for the military equipment.

    Or the fact they aren't aware that Russia has like half a dozen companies making auto cnc and other industrial equipment.

    But going off of wiki or anything of the sort is a losing battle. Actually, this is a pointless conversation since it's one that is repeated few times a year.

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    Post  AMCXXL 16/08/23, 05:55 pm

    Backman wrote:I had to check Wikipedia just for some laughs.

    Su-75 Checkmate development could be delayed due to international sanctions[16] on Russia, and Russia could not import semiconductors[17] and high-tech machining equipment from the European Union.[18] The potential export sales also stalled because Russia cannot trade using U.S. dollars.[19]

    It is almost like The Drive comment section is in charge of the Wikipedia file.

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    Post  Isos 16/08/23, 07:42 pm

    Not a fan of unmanned versions.

    To answer the question, no UAV checkmate isn't redundant to S-70. Okhotnik is just an unmanned bomber, can really fight other planes unless it's BVR and even then it won't have speed advantage.

    An unmanned su-75 will be able to doghfight and optimize its flight to launch r-77M at high speed. But to achieve such point they will need to invest a huge money in the development of the software. This will lead to many crashes because letting a software control a plane going at supersonic speed and taking 9g's is really complicated. It's also prone to jamming.

    Manned su-75 is what they need. UAV like Okhotnik or Orion are the best role they could give to UAV like recco bombing or missile truck. Combat fighter UAV is a useless spend of money.
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    Post  d_taddei2 16/08/23, 09:20 pm

    Am I correct in saying this rumour was started by a YouTuber? And wiki? What I have noticed is Russia has put more effort, advertising, and hype into Checkmate than any other project that was cancelled. I think we will see checkmate but maybe a delay until we do. Russia still needs a fairly cheap small fighter for export wrud sadly Mig-35 hasnt seen much interest. I actually think the Mig-35 is a decent aircraft. Let's wait and see how it all pans out.

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    Post  caveat emptor 17/08/23, 12:04 am

    thegopnik wrote:you sound like you don't have faith in the Su-75, please elaborate
    Nothing to do with faith. Okhotnik is almost entering the service, while Su-75 still didn't make first flight. Plus, I believe,that manned version will get a priority.

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    Post  thegopnik 17/08/23, 03:43 am

    https://tass.com/defense/1661377

    Russia discusses cooperation on Checkmate project with foreign customers — FSCTC
    According to Dmitry Shugaev, Checkmate has a certain way to go before becoming an export product, although its competitiveness is already obvious

    PATRIOT PARK /Moscow region/, August 16. /TASS/. Russia’s Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation (FSCTC) is holding consultations with some foreign customers on cooperation as part of the Checkmate light tactical aircraft project. Director of FSCTC Dmitry Shugayev said this talking to TASS.
    "I am not ready to say yet who will be the first Checkmate customer. Potential Checkmate customers are located on different continents, in different regions of the world. I can only confirm that consultations are currently underway with some foreign customers on cooperation within the Checkmate project," Shugaev said noting that cooperation involves not only the supply of the aircraft themselves, but also technological cooperation.
    According to Shugaev, Checkmate has a certain way to go before becoming an export product, although its competitiveness is already obvious.
    "Taking into account the expected competitive price, I believe that it will be in demand in its segment," the head of the FSCTC said.

    The light tactical fighter Checkmate developed by the Sukhoi Company (part of the United Aircraft Corporation within Rostec) was for the first time presented to the public at MAKS 2021 airshow. Its foreign debut took place at Dubai Airshow 2021 in the United Arab Emirates. The Checkmate incorporates the latest technical solutions, open architecture, and unique artificial intelligence technologies. It is a stealth aircraft with an internal compartment for air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons. The payload exceeds seven tons. The jet can destroy six targets at a time. It will be able to fly at Mach 1.8 and will have a combat radius of 3,000 km.
    The Army-2023 International Military-Technical Forum is taking place at the Patriot Congress and Exhibition Center, the Alabino shooting range and the Kubinka airfield on August 14-20. The event is being organized by the Russian Defense Ministry. TASS serves as its strategic media partner.

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    Post  LMFS 17/08/23, 04:44 am

    Broski wrote:I wonder if an unmanned Su-75 would make the Okhotnik redundant or if they're different enough to both find a place in the RuAF?

    Sukhoi's vision is that Su-57 is the queen, LTS the horse and Okhotnik the pawn. Of course the LTS in unmanned version has also the expendable attribute added. But clearly Okhotnik is specialized in the surveillance/reconnaissance and strike roles, while the unmanned LTS is still a multirole fighter, with all the capability for A2A missions that implies. So the first should complement / replace Su-24(MR) and Su-34, while the second would rather cover the current roles of MiG-29/35, Su-27/30, allowing to significantly expand the size of the VKS at a very small cost and transition from a fully manned to a mostly unmanned force seamlessly.

    Technically Okhotnik will excel in range-endurance / RCS / size of internal bays, while LTS has almost the range, payload and cinematic parameters of a heavy fighter (specially if it receives izd. 30) with only one engine and at a fraction of the operational cost. Makes full sense to have both of them together with PAK-FA, Sukhoi's proposed force composition is flawless IMHO.

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    Post  Hole 17/08/23, 07:56 am

    Okhotnik is the Bishop.  Wink
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    Post  GarryB 17/08/23, 03:47 pm

    I wonder if an unmanned Su-75 would make the Okhotnik redundant or if they're different enough to both find a place in the RuAF?

    There was an unmanned drone version of the Yak-130 which they have not made, but it seems having an unmanned version for the future is standard practice in the industry these days... there is even talk of unmanned versions of the MiG-41 and PAK DA.

    Does not mean they will ever make them, but the option is there.

    I think it will be made but I think there might be initial funding problems and Russia will have to foot the bill at first.

    I would think a dozen countries moving forward would want a light 5th gen fighter for 40-50 million a pop with low operating costs and a full range of modern weapons that likely work well together with Russian exported air defence systems too, which are also very good.

    It is almost like The Drive comment section is in charge of the Wikipedia file.

    They are making Su-34 and Su-35 and Su-30 and Su-57 but they don't have components to make a few flying prototypes of a light fighter that will sell very well on the international market?

    Right.

    Not a fan of unmanned versions.

    I have to agree, but it is just an optional extra based on the base model... there is no requirement to move it beyond model form in the unmanned version.

    Okhotnik is just an unmanned bomber, can really fight other planes unless it's BVR and even then it won't have speed advantage.

    S-70 could carry long range AAM and when fired from altitude they should reach decent distances... no dogfighting required... modern dogfighting would be suicide considering the performance of off boresight IR guided AAMs.

    An unmanned su-75 will be able to doghfight and optimize its flight to launch r-77M at high speed.

    You could develop faster flying aircraft with more internal capacity for weapons and sensors that would be cheaper and faster and higher flying.

    But to achieve such point they will need to invest a huge money in the development of the software.

    Have you never played a computer game? The autopilots on modern aircraft are sophisticated enough to do all the flying from takeoff to landing, and modern combat computer games with fighter aircraft can easily simulate both sides of a dogfight... and more importantly without a human on board you can re-stress the design so it can pull 15 or 20 g with sensors functioning and missiles able to be launched... compared with a manned aircraft at 8 or 9 g where the pilot is just struggling not to pass out and trying to survive... he is not fighting or tracking targets visually...

    This will lead to many crashes because letting a software control a plane going at supersonic speed and taking 9g's is really complicated. It's also prone to jamming.

    Would only be prone to jamming if you flew it by remote control. The software on the plane could gather the information from the sensors including airspeed, altitude, attitude, location, etc, as well as information about the targets and threats in the airspace and its weapon loadout... with decent jammers and self defence equipment you could arm your drone with a 30mm cannon and gun everything down in dogfights pulling 30g.

    Manned su-75 is what they need. UAV like Okhotnik or Orion are the best role they could give to UAV like recco bombing or missile truck. Combat fighter UAV is a useless spend of money.

    Agree for now.

    Russia still needs a fairly cheap small fighter for export wrud sadly Mig-35 hasnt seen much interest. I actually think the Mig-35 is a decent aircraft. Let's wait and see how it all pans out.

    Hopefully this conflict will make them realise that having large numbers of smaller lighter cheaper platforms with high quality AESA radar and IRST and FLIR etc operating over the battlefield collecting information on the enemy and also taking out targets of opportunity is a good thing and makes your forces safer.

    I suspect they want to see the new light 5th gen fighter from MiG to decide whether a 5th gen light fighter can actually be affordable or if the numbers plane has to be the a MiG-35 type.

    Potential Checkmate customers are located on different continents, in different regions of the world. I can only confirm that consultations are currently underway with some foreign customers on cooperation within the Checkmate project,

    Wouldn't it be good if Brazil and South Africa and India and Russia got together to make this plane. Would China be interested?

    Of course too many cooks spoiling the broth... perhaps if they were all customers...

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    Post  TMA1 31/08/23, 02:28 pm

    Sukhoi LTS "Checkmate" #2 - Page 23 00000010

    Saw this over at paralay's site. Sounds like it is an image from the patent involving the side bays. Clever use of different geometries to mount different ordinance racks. The more I see the more I want in my life.

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    Post  Gomig-21 31/08/23, 04:43 pm

    TMA1 wrote:The more I see the more I want in my life.

    Ooops! Wrong thread!

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    Post  Podlodka77 14/11/23, 12:54 am

    November 13, 06:00,
    updated November 13, 06:01
    Manturov expects the Checkmate sample to appear before the end of 2025

    The aircraft is made using stealth technologies and is equipped with an intra-fuselage compartment for air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons.

    DUBAI, November 13. /TASS/. The first prototype of the Russian single-engine fighter Checkmate can be created before the end of 2025, says Deputy Prime Minister and Head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation Denis Manturov.
    “I expect that this (the creation of the first sample of the Checkmate fighter - TASS note) will happen before the end of 2025,” Manturov told reporters.
    About the plane

    The Checkmate light tactical aircraft developed by Sukhoi (part of the United Aircraft Corporation) was first presented at the MAKS-2021 air show. The foreign presentation of the fighter took place at the Dubai Airshow 2021 in the UAE.

    Checkmate includes all the most advanced developments, including an open architecture built in the interests of the customer and unique artificial intelligence technologies. The aircraft is made using stealth technologies and is equipped with an intra-fuselage compartment for air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons.

    The payload weight exceeds 7 tons. The fighter will be able to simultaneously hit up to six targets. The speed of a single-engine aircraft will be Mach 1.8, and the combat radius will be 3 thousand km.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/19266499





    November 13, 06:02
    New equipment of the Russian Armed Forces
    Manturov announced the availability of interested parties for the purchase of the Russian Checkmate fighter

    According to the Deputy Prime Minister - Head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation, changes were made to the initial design of the promising aircraft based on customer requests

    DUBAI, November 13. /TASS/. There are people interested in purchasing Russian single-engine Checkmate fighters, Deputy Prime Minister and Head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation Denis Manturov told reporters. According to him, changes were made to the initial design of the promising aircraft based on customer requests.

    “Yes, there are interested parties. <…> And I can say that over these two years we have collected requests. Including making certain adjustments to the project, so that it is maximally adapted to the requests of customers who are interested in a single-engine aircraft,” - Manturov said.

    In particular, we are talking about changes to the aircraft's layout, control system and aircraft weapons. “This applies to the layout, control systems, and aviation weapons. Therefore, a lot of work was done here precisely on the basis of the Checkmate originally presented here [in the UAE],” Manturov explained.

    The Checkmate light tactical aircraft developed by Sukhoi (part of the United Aircraft Corporation) was first presented at the MAKS-2021 air show. The foreign presentation of the fighter took place at the Dubai Airshow 2021 in the UAE.

    Commenting on the possible appearance of foreign partners in the project, Manturov replied that “such ideas and proposals” are on the agenda, but in the near future we are talking about producing the aircraft in Russia. “But as I said, taking into account the modifications that were required to maximally adapt the request from the client,” the Deputy Prime Minister emphasized.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/19266531

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    Post  Atmosphere 15/11/23, 09:25 am

    https://anna-news.info/obnovlennaya-hvostovaya-chast-su-75-checkmate/?utm_source=ixbtcom
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    Post  Podlodka77 15/11/23, 11:24 am

    November 14, 17:23
    International exhibition Dubai Airshow

    Single-engine fighter Checkmate received a communications complex from the Su-57

    Ruselectronics for the first time showed an export version of its communications complex for such aircraft at the Army forum

    DUBAI, November 14. /TASS/. The promising Russian single-engine aircraft Checkmate received an on-board communications system from a fifth-generation fighter. This was reported to the Ruselectronics holding (part of Rostec).
    The only Russian fifth-generation fighter at the moment is the Su-57. Ruselectronics first showed an export version of its communications system for such aircraft at the Army forum in 2023. It was reported that the complex, developed by NPP Polet, part of Ruselectronics, also “provides automatic and automated transmission of data, telephone and telegraph information in conditions of complex interference conditions at a distance of up to 1,500 km in various frequency ranges.” It uses high-speed highways to transmit information in a single digital format.

    “The solution to many functional tasks that increase the efficiency of aviation operations is carried out using on-board digital communications systems. Our radio communications equipment is actively used as part of the latest aircraft, including included in the avionics of promising aircraft, such as Checkmate,” they cited in the press service of Ruselectronics, the words of the general director of NPP Polet, Alexey Komyakov.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/19282137


    To AMCXXL; As things stand, in a few more years or so you will be counting aviation regiments re-armed with this aircraft.

    It seems to me that this project is gaining momentum.

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    Post  Hole 15/11/23, 11:35 pm

    counting aviation regiments re-armed with this aircraft.
    I hope the VKS is forming new regiments with that aircraft.

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    Post  Podlodka77 15/11/23, 11:40 pm

    Cheers to you, Hole... paratrooper

    I would add just one thing; Whatever the Russians do, let them not forget about PAK-DP.


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