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    Sukhoi LTS "Checkmate" #2

    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue Jul 02, 2024 7:07 pm

    Yes 8 years between first flights for a "same generation" fighter is a very long time.

    The most probable reason for not using any of the Mig-29's in any significant numbers during the SMO is exactly that - they simply don't have adequate numbers in service. Most first gen Mig-29's have been withdrawn except for a few trainers. The SMT is nowhere to be seen - despite being multi-role fighters with better range. Same goes for the small number of Mig-29M2's and Mig-35's that entered service.

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jul 02, 2024 9:45 pm


    MiG 35 batch ordered was just advertising pitch

    Those things won't be seeing any wars




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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:18 am

    There are plans to use them in the Mig-29 aerobatic team as a replacement for the older Mig-29's.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:38 am

    ONCE AGAIN - I have never said that. I repeat - The Mig-35 was developed from the Mig-29M. The design is dated but not yet obsolete.

    It is the numbers fighter, it does not need to be better than the Su-35 or Su-57 to consider it useful.

    It is supposed to be affordable and Good enough to get most jobs done.

    If cheap was the only consideration they would be making MiG-29M2s instead.

    Not quite as good as the MiG-35 but even cheaper to buy.

    They clearly want quality and volume, which I think is rather positive.

    "Not yet obsolete" - in the sense that it is still useful as a fighter.

    A useful fighter is better than an aircraft that has not yet flown.

    You would rather they have nothing than a useful fighter...


    There is a subtle difference there but I do hope that you can now comprehend what I've said?

    What I comprehend is that if Yak had said they have an AESA radar for the Yak-130 for use in the Yak-133 single seat light fighter you would say that is a brilliant idea and why aren't they making them right now.

    Instead it is evil MiG who stole your girlfriend from you and did naughty things to your mother and no they can't make new planes for love nor money ever again... that is their punishment for all time.

    On the other hand, VKS, so far, didn't show any interest in MiG-35 beyond original 6 planes.

    They bought 6 planes for testing and use because they knew they had light 5th gen fighters on the way, and no conflict in sight that would require lots of fighter aircraft to be available for use any time soon. Then the conflict in the Ukraine happened and they will have tested the MiG-35 in that conflict as they did in Syria too, and the talk is that they think a light numbers fighter is useful and necessary and the only one available for serial production right now is the MiG-35.

    They might only make 36 new planes or they might make a lot more... they will be cheaper to operate than the Flanker family because they were intended to operate with the Flanker family.

    Su-35S has been operational for already a decade or so, when Su-57 was in early development and Su-75 was nowhere in sight. While MiG-35 came along too little too late.

    The light 5th gen fighter programme was put on hold to focus on getting the heavy 5th gen fighter into service and serial production. The Su-75 and MiG designs were revealed when serial production of the Su-57 started... coincidence?

    Su-75 is looking for investment and development partners and is not funded by the Russian military.

    That does not mean the Russian military wont look at it of course, the Russian Navy ordered the MiG-29K after the Indian Navy bought some so the tooling and production was already set up for them making their aircraft rather cheaper than they otherwise would be.

    Also, VKS stubbornly refuses to use any MiG-29 iteration in and around Ukraine, so far.

    Do we know that for certain or is that just your assumption?

    {quote]Maybe they were mentioned in one or two instances and used over Black Sea for destruction of Ukrainian surface antiship drones.[/quote]

    The fact that you contradict yourself from your previous sentence suggests you don't know.

    Yes 8 years between first flights for a "same generation" fighter is a very long time.

    Always depends on funding from the customer.

    The most probable reason for not using any of the Mig-29's in any significant numbers during the SMO is exactly that - they simply don't have adequate numbers in service. Most first gen Mig-29's have been withdrawn except for a few trainers. The SMT is nowhere to be seen - despite being multi-role fighters with better range. Same goes for the small number of Mig-29M2's and Mig-35's that entered service.

    Before guessing of probable reasons wouldn't it make rather more sense to determine if the premise is correct or not?

    MiG 35 batch ordered was just advertising pitch

    Those things won't be seeing any wars

    MiG-35s are for testing and AFAIK have been tested in both Ukraine and in Syria.

    There are plans to use them in the Mig-29 aerobatic team as a replacement for the older Mig-29's.

    That would show a lot of confidence in the design... the SWIFTS is a 6 plane team and there are only 6 serial MiG-35s made.

    Of course if they do have AESA radar then what a horrible waste that would be.

    Rolls Royce to plough a field.
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    Post  Mir Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:56 am

    GarryB wrote:Instead it is evil MiG who stole your girlfriend from you and did naughty things to your mother and no they can't make new planes for love nor money ever again...

    How did you know! OMG I thought it was a State secret! Shocked Laughing


    GarryB wrote:
    the SWIFTS is a 6 plane team and there are only 6 serial MiG-35s made.
    Of course if they do have AESA radar then what a horrible waste that would be.
    Rolls Royce to plough a field.

    Unlike most other military aerobatic teams - the Russians use regular fighters.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 03, 2024 2:41 pm


    Unlike most other military aerobatic teams - the Russians use regular fighters.

    So what you are saying is that they only use regular standard in service fighters in the SWIFTS aerobatics team... which is further evidence that the MiG-35 is to be adopted officially and serially produced.

    They are hardly going to use specialist planes for their aerobatic teams...
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Jul 03, 2024 3:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Unlike most other military aerobatic teams - the Russians use regular fighters.

    So what you are saying is that they only use regular standard in service fighters in the SWIFTS aerobatics team... which is further evidence that the MiG-35 is to be adopted officially and serially produced.

    Unfortunately not always the case - here is a picture of the Su-27M (Su-35) from the Russian Knights but it never entered VKS service in numbers. Only three were ordered. A few prototypes also made it into the team and the rest were used for spares.
    Sukhoi LTS "Checkmate" #2 - Page 29 Su27m-10

    GarryB wrote:They are hardly going to use specialist planes for their aerobatic teams...

    But they do... you should watch the Combat Approved documentary on the Knights and the Swifts. It is definitely mentioned in there a couple of times. Their aircraft is regular combat planes ready for duty.


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