Scorpius wrote:In 2018, according to the Ministry of Industry and Trade, there were 170 ships under construction at Russian shipyards. The laying of 51 vessels took place, 90 vessels were handed over to customers.
Currently (2019) there are 150 vessels in the order portfolio, which is 3% of the global order portfolio for ships.
https://sudostroenie.info/novosti/26426.html
So now apparently tiny river vessels are equivalent to massive cargo carriers and tankers? Yeah, Russia produces a bunch of 8k tonne Volga cargo carriers, great for its internal market, not at all impressive by global shipbuilding standards.
I also think it's funny that 3 percent is somehow supposed to be impressive?
Scorpius wrote:The Russian shipbuilding and shipbuilding market has grown by 67% in value over the year (2020), to 230 billion rubles. The total tonnage increased by 59%, to 542 thousand tons. However, there is a decrease of 8% in units, in total 94 vessels (with a tonnage of more than 50 tons) were delivered to customers in 2020, and about 90 small vessels and boats (with a tonnage of less than 50 tons) were also built. Last year, the ZVEZDA Shipbuilding Complex (managed by a consortium of ROSNEFT, Rosneftegaz and Gazprombank) was particularly distinguished, which took first place in the rating of shipyards in terms of total tonnage and second place (after the Baltic Plant) in terms of the cost of ships delivered. For example, they handed over to Rosnefteflot in 2020 the Aframax head tanker Vladimir Monomakh with a deadweight of 114 thousand tons and a cost of about 31.3 billion rubles.
At the same time, the number of delivered orders decreased in civil shipbuilding by almost 18%, to 62 units, and in military increased by 18%, to 32 ships. For example, sEvmash, part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), handed over the nuclear submarine with ballistic missiles Prince Vladimir, Severnaya Verf (part of USC) handed over the corvette Gremyashchy and the frigate Admiral of the Fleet Kasatonov, the Baltic Yantar (part of USC) handed over the large amphibious ship pYotr Morgunov to the fleet. In civil shipbuilding, dry cargo ships (17 units were built), barges (13 units) and special vessels of the service fleet are in the lead in terms of the number of ships delivered.
Again, these statistics don't really show what you want them to. Tonnage on order is a nice figure, but all it shows is simply what you've ordered, not what you are actually producing, and Russia gets some "padding" because it's shipyards take so long to construct certain vessels that the total tonnage builds up.
It's also very funny that Vladimir Monomakh is counted here as a big thing, you do realize almost the entirety of the vessel was constructed in South Korea, with just the nose put on at Zvezda? The shipyard itself isn't finished, and only has half the personnel it desires, 3.5k/7k. Future ships will have a higher percentage of domestic production but it is still beginning for Zvezda. So again, there is very fanciful statistics counting here.
Scorpius wrote:According to JSC "TSNIIMF", according to the transport strategy of the Russian Federation for the period up to 2036, in the period from 2020 to 2024, it is planned to build 157 vessels with a total deadweight of 3.5 million tons. Including 36 sea vessels, 95 river-sea commercial vessels and 26 passenger vessels.
If you're really trying to prove here that Russia is somehow overtaking other countries and becoming a major shipbuilder, this is a very funny statistic to put up. I mean, river vessels? It's nice that they are being produced but they aren't the zenith of shipbuilding.
I mean, we can take Japan here, which some people have hilariously deluded themselves into thinking that Russia has overtaken Japan in shipbuilding, has in 2019 ALONE, not FOUR years, just ONE year, DELIVERED, not PLANNED, 24 million deadweight tons.
And if you want to take order book into consideration, then considering Europe, Russia is behind Italy, France, and Germany. But is the leader in deadweight(1.65m deadweight). But it is so it is neither leader in orderbook(where European yards producing smaller but higher value vessels lead the top of the boards), nor a leader in deadweight, where it is utterly DWARFED by the Asian shipyards.
I honestly cannot even begin to fathom how some people got it into their heads that Russia had overtaken Japan, much less South Korea. It's utterly delusional and embarrassing.
You can check the figures for yourself, feel free to contest if you like, though make sure to actually have actual concrete production figures instead of conjecture. https://www.brsbrokers.com/assets/review_splits/BRS_Review_2020_Shipbuilding.pdf
Scorpius wrote:As of the end of the first quarter of 2021, at the largest Russian shipbuilding enterprises (included in the register "Shipbuilding: shipyards and Design companies. Results of 2020") construction of about 500 ships and vessels continues. The total volume of ships and vessels under construction and contracted exceeds 2.8 trillion rubles, and the total tonnage is more than 7.4 million tons (translator's note: this means that the average tonnage of EACH of the 500 ships under construction is 14,800 tons, that is, approximately corresponds to a Zumwalt-type destroyer - the data is just for understanding the scale of construction, does not correspond to real statistics). In the future, until 2025, in the field of civil shipbuilding, the priority areas of development are the large-tonnage tanker fleet (75% of the total tonnage), the fishing fleet (5%) and the icebreaker fleet (3%), and in the field of military shipbuilding – the construction of nuclear and diesel submarines (4%).
https://infoline.spb.ru/news/index.php?news=208026
Again, total amount of tonnage currently under construction is nice, but padded out because of how long it takes Russian shipyards, both military and civilian, to actually complete orders, they get built up and you come to this nice large figure but the actual amount of ships delivered is tiny, by any metric you care to consider. It is why people are so fed up with United Shipbuilding Corporation and their grandiose claims, they take so long to deliver on the lead vessel, that the second and even third ship in the class are often also close to completion, and then counted as if USC produced and delivered three vessels in one year or such. It is precisely what happened with Yasen class, which is only finally just now having it's massive build times come down.
Scorpius wrote:Are these figures and sources enough for you, or do you need more?
No, they really fucking aren't, because nothing of what you showed me actually states by what metric Russia has somehow become this major shipbuiding power.
I asked VERY simply, what actual metric, in COMPARISON to other countries, has Russia overtaken the premier mass shipbuilders such as Japan, as other people have stated in this thread (including, hiliariously, PapaDragon). In total deadweight, it is dwarfed by the China, South Korea, and Japan. By gross tonnage, which best measures who is building high value vessels, then it is behind Italy, France, and Germany, though it is doing very well for itself there, as well as leading in European deadweight(though this is not much of a prize).
So, I will ask again, by what metric has Russia become a premier shipbuilding power in comparison with the top countries? By what metric has it become second largest producer of civilian cargo ships in the world, as Hole has stated? I remind you, that a river cargo transporter cannot be counted the same as a Aframax carrier, because it is just stupid to do so. Alamo wrote:This is gaining such momentum, that naysayers will stay behind just because they are lazy by definition.
By the way ... :
https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/arctic-lng/2021/05/worlds-largest-lng-construction-yard-taking-shape-belokamenka
Barents Observer is the last considered objective, and the article is a rip-off of something from 2017, still, they cant hide being impressed.
Want to know what is really impressive?
A 2.7 km waterfront. A base to anchor&finish the construction of vessels.
Divide that by let's say 350m, if you want to equip a carrier there Laughing
Still, someone would consider that small in scale, irrelevant, and outdated Laughing Laughing Laughing *
* go and check US share in worldwide shipbuilding Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
A long strip of concrete that is used as a mooring area to outfit floating vessels, or in this case, floating structures is supposed to impress others?
I'm also amused by the mentioning of aircraft carriers, what makes you think the workers there have the skill to outfit carriers there?
I have said this before and I will say it again, Belokamenka is a shipyard in name only, it produces ZERO ships, only floating concrete structures, and doesn't have the ability to produce ships, for one, it doesn't even have a floating gate, you literally have to demolish it's retaining wall in order to let water in and float out any objects. Impressive marine engineering, but it cannot be called shipbuilding. They aren't ships.
Also, everyone knows good and well that US no longer competes in civil shipbuilding, but why don't we compare U.S. military shipbuilding with Russian? You won't like the experience, and before anyone gets salty with me, Scorpius himself in his own statistics mentioned military vessels, so why not compare?
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