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    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:12 am

    We will see if there is any international interest in the single and twin engined versions... this looks like the single engined Sukhoi might be ready for a flight or at least a public taxi, I would expect MiG would at least need to show a full scale prototype or model if they want to be noticed too... this might be Sukhoi trying to sweep up the interested countries before MiG is ready to show what it plans to make.

    From what is visible with that fabric covering this is certainly not a single engined Su-57 which makes sense, this plane will be doing very different things.

    This aircraft will either have a sukhoi family engine ie the 18 ton thrust for the new Su-57 engine or a MiG engine like the RD-45 that was promised in the 12 ton thrust range...

    With a single engine the max aircraft weight would need to be in the 16-18 ton weight range while with two 12 ton engines it could be in the 18-24 ton weight range.

    This new plane is interesting is that the tail structure seems to shroud the engine... ie the engine is almost recessed into the aircraft, while the Su-35 and Su-57 it extends back past the tail surfaces... almost like a Yak.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:15 am

    Arrow wrote:The question is whether this is only for export or the VKS will return to single-engine fighter again?

    Two engines are always a safer bet, but in terms of export potential and overall costs this option is a clear winner. I do expect the F-35 to suddenly become way more affordable due to "new  and revolutionary" production methods! Laughing


    Last edited by Mir on Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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    tanino

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    Post  tanino Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:16 am

    with the I-30 the nozzle edges will be serrated of course .)
    Very very interesting rudder attachment from the front.
    IRST (as we have seen it should be the usual one, but we know it has layers and layers of RAM)
    In front it should be very, very invisible. At least 1:1.
    Interesting radar radome (036M? Variants? Will it have side radars (the space is there)

    A great big beast.

    Guys, we're getting young again Smile I remember the first blurry photos of the RAM K.
    Here would be so much to say. You guys are awesome.

    Grazie e Ciao.

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    medo
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    Post  medo Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:55 am

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:Front view
    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 5 M-38cv10

    From this picture, it could be clearly seen, that it has side air intakes and not under nose. I wonder if this is just mock up or actual prototype. Undercarriage and engine looks real.

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    Russian_Patriot_
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:07 am

    Fighterbomber* write:

    So, the rrrevolution that I believed in and warned about many times has happened. 
    We can already confidently assert that the Sukhovites** in their free time did what all reasonable humanity expected from the MiG. 
    This is not a model, not a wretched cartoon and not a wooden layout 1:1. 
    This is a real prototype of a combat fighter with very significant functionality, part of which will be shown on the 20th. They promise that all the most interesting things are still ahead. 
    I think there will be an epic presentation, after which MAKS can actually be closed.

    * Fighterbomber is a famous Russian retired Su-34 pilot who keeps his own blog. 
    ** Sukhovites - Designers of Sukhoi Design Bureau

    Original post from Fighterbomber group in VKontakte:
    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 5 Img_2065

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:18 am

    Definitely the real deal here!
    medo
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    Post  medo Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:21 am

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:Fighterbomber* write:

    So, the rrrevolution that I believed in and warned about many times has happened. 
    We can already confidently assert that the Sukhovites** in their free time did what all reasonable humanity expected from the MiG. 
    This is not a model, not a wretched cartoon and not a wooden layout 1:1. 
    This is a real prototype of a combat fighter with very significant functionality, part of which will be shown on the 20th. They promise that all the most interesting things are still ahead. 
    I think there will be an epic presentation, after which MAKS can actually be closed.

    * Fighterbomber is a famous Russian retired Su-34 pilot who keeps his own blog. 
    ** Sukhovites - Designers of Sukhoi Design Bureau

    Original post from Fighterbomber group in VKontakte:
    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 5 Img_2065

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 5 Ohotni10

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 5 _jqp4b10

    Agree. We all expect new light fighter from MiG, but this one is from Sukhoi. It is interesting, that they keep it in secret and now made a total surprise. I think they hide this project with S-70 Ohotnik UCAV. The first prototype of Ohotnik have full engine with afterburner, although it will have stealth nozzle with engine without afterburner. Most probably it is prototype of Ohotnik and simultaneously testbed for new single engine fighter. So I agree, that this is real prototype. Considering how they keep it in secret, I would not be surprized if it already made its first flight. If it will fly in MAKS, that it absolutly made its first flight. That would be an epic surprise.

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:43 am

    Note how the tarp lays on the turkey feathers. That looks like al 41. This might actually be a working prototype.

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    Tingsay

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    Post  Tingsay Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:48 am

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 5 16264210


    Yep, Intakes are on the side.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:50 am

    Well know we know what was going on behind this screen Very Happy

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 5 Su-110

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    tanino

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    Post  tanino Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:22 am

    Tingsay wrote:New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 5 16264210


    Yep, Intakes are on the side.


    two interesting photos (Thanks)

    Livery in use on the Su-57 (looks like)

    Cargo hatch with RAM and ingenious indentation lath, like the Su-57 cargo hatches (simple and effective against the return Radar marker getting trapped)

    LED light on the real front wheel, I don't think it's for aesthetics. This one takes off.
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    Post  limb Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:25 am

    I wonder if thats a DSI intake. I really hope it isnt, so this fighter can supercruise more efficiently.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:26 am

    By the way, I will not agree with you who claim that the STOL/VTOL version is not needed.
    It is.
    And I have the first export customer in mind.
    Turkey Twisted Evil
    As one already said, don't remember who, there are lots of countries who will equip in STOL capable LHDs in near future, so why the Russkies would not want to have something capable of grabbing a piece of cake?
    23900 are the next ones in mind, as far as Japan operates its own mini carriers with F-35 on board, and the Kuril issue is still on the table, I guess its own solution to this would be nice.

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    Cheetah
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    Post  Cheetah Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:41 am

    I think the thing that needs to be remembered here is that this aircraft seems to be laser-focused on export. If there are any breakthrough technologies, they'll probably manifest in different domestically aimed products.

    As for this prototype, I almost get the distinct feeling that it's trying to steal the F-35's thunder. Do 80% if its job for 20% of the cost, and UAC makes a killing in the meantime.

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    Post  LMFS Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:46 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:no way with those eyes Smile

    Im glad to see you back. I only look forward to check if the new fighter is STVOL o STOL

    Glad to see you back too brother thumbsup

    Few days more and we will know...

    Gomig-21 wrote:It also seems to be Russia's first attempt at a DSI intake if I'm not mistaken. Something we haven't seen yet on any Russian aircraft, if it is indeed exactly like the model on Borisov's FAMOUS desk! lol.

    For the PAK-FA it is not enough, for a light cheaper fighter it can be. If you make the light fighter every bit as good as the heavy one, price reduction will not be that good and you will have the problem the F-35 faces now. As shown in the picture above an in the newer ones, there seems to be a LERX with a pointy end (seen in the F-35 and in the single engine MiG-29 modification long time ago) or maybe a more exotic intake configuration. I don't doubt they can play a bit with us to keep the hype high until the MAKS starts.

    Backman wrote:Oh not this f*cking bullshit again you dipshits. All of the cost ? What the hell do you know about Russia's finances ? Evidently nothing. We haven't heard a peep about pre orders or MFG partners at all.

    Did you see what happened with the Western coverage of the PAK-FA? Prepare for ten years of the same with the LTS attack

    Before we declare that it has no horizontal tail which would be cool, this does look like a place where a tail section would be bolted on.

    I have not been cautious, but I think now it is better to wait a few days. That been said, it seems the connection between the cloth pieces to me

    Arrow wrote:The question is whether this is only for export or the VKS will return to single-engine fighter again?

    I doubt they do this without considering the VKS. But often Russian MoD allows MIC to work on a initiative basis and "convince" them with a design and a business case too. They are not willing to fund anyone's happy engineering, and they are fully right at that.

    Tingsay wrote:Yep, Intakes are on the side.

    Let us wait a bit. There is a big gap below the nose too. The marks at the side could be a sort of LERX with a dogtooth a bit like the F-35, I mentioned above that there is definitely something weird in that part, also at the Borisov model...

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    Post  LMFS Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:58 am

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:Fighterbomber* write:

    So, the rrrevolution that I believed in and warned about many times has happened. 
    We can already confidently assert that the Sukhovites** in their free time did what all reasonable humanity expected from the MiG. 
    This is not a model, not a wretched cartoon and not a wooden layout 1:1. 
    This is a real prototype of a combat fighter with very significant functionality, part of which will be shown on the 20th. They promise that all the most interesting things are still ahead. 
    I think there will be an epic presentation, after which MAKS can actually be closed.

    Wow that would be amazing respekt
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    Post  Tingsay Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:01 pm

    LMFS wrote:

    Tingsay wrote:Yep, Intakes are on the side.

    Let us wait a bit. There is a big gap below the nose too. The marks at the side could be a sort of LERX with a dogtooth a bit like the F-35, I mentioned above that there is definitely something weird in that part, also at the Borisov model...


    True.

    But looking at it again, is it possible for side intakes and bottom intakes at the same time? Like a a smiley face that extends all the way to the cheeks? (thats a very happy face Laughing )

    I don't know much about plane designs, but what would be the obvious disadvantages or advantages if that was the case?
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    Post  LMFS Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:10 pm

    Tingsay wrote:True.

    But looking at it again, is it possible for side intakes and bottom intakes at the same time? Like a a smiley face that extends all the way to the cheeks? (thats a very happy face Laughing )

    I don't know much about plane designs, but what would be the obvious disadvantages or advantages if that was the case?

    No advantages that I see, with a worse form factor (more drag, less airflow) and complications for the structure. Maybe it has some other advantages, but it would be a fairly exotic solution. I still tend to think it is some sort of LERX, but let's wait and see...
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    Post  ALAMO Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:12 pm

    There is the biggest disadvantage of this idea: it would look ugly that way Laughing
    And we are all addicted to Russian plane looking gooooood Laughing

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    Post  Rasisuki Nebia Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:14 pm

    i don't know but does this look like a Chin inlet design? people are already having their fun speculating  New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 5 1f605

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 5 E6Z-0xuXsAETwyd?format=jpg&name=medium

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 5 E6aK1zVWEAc4Ktn?format=jpg&name=medium

    Found this from @REjercitos
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    Post  Arrow Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:20 pm

    It's incredibly impressive. The Russian MIC is developing another next-generation combat aircraft. They already have Su 57, they are working on the Ochotnik drone and now a light fighter. In addition, they are working on a new interceptor, the successor of the MiG 31. Something amazing. Russia can surprise Very Happy

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    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:22 pm

    Two engines are always a safer bet, but in terms of export potential and overall costs this option is a clear winner. I do expect the F-35 to suddenly become way more affordable due to "new and revolutionary" production methods!

    I would not expect any military item that is effective to be cheap from the US.

    The concept of the F-35 is fine... the ideas behind it are good, but the implimentation was standard US MIC make it congress and senate cancel proof, which guarantees it will be eye wateringly expensive.

    Also they tried to replace one aircraft too many... if it didn't need VSTOL capacity it would have been a much better aircraft.

    Even against third world countries these days Harrier type aircraft are going to be in trouble flying low and slow, because they can't get as low and as behind stuff as a helicopter can.

    Ironically to reduce costs they even went for some cheap materials that has also bit them in the ass as well.

    I would bet money MiG and Sukhoi could both make an excellent single engined fighter that is world class in every respect, but what I question is it worth trying to add stealth to that design... a 4++ gen fighter could be cheap and affordable and easy to mass produce, 5th gen is always going to be more support intensive and handling critical in terms of keeping its stealth levels to a useful level.

    VSTOL is simply unnecessary in my view.... on land it is bullshit because you need paved heat treated areas... well most places have concrete and motorways thousands of kms long so 300m to 400m stretches of "runway" are located all over the place... to take off vertically a supersonic jet needs special heat treated materials of a standard motorways are not made to and any suggestion that any open field will do is just bullshit... a jet engine creates dirt fountains that rapidly clog the intakes and you destroy your fighter plane faster than any enemy missile could.

    For ships having a bigger ship is actually more desirable as the small 20K ton ships like the Hermes don't exist except for countries that can't afford a real carrier... which makes me think if they want a white elephant so desperately why are they putting fighters on it.

    The Yak-141 is talked about like it was better than a MiG-29, but the Yak-141 is a good example of a super powerful jet engine and complication and an aircraft that was cancelled because every vertical takeoff and landing was risky because of hot gas ingestion.... ie stall.. boom..

    I remember the first blurry photos of the RAM K.

    That old American naming convention...

    As one already said, don't remember who, there are lots of countries who will equip in STOL capable LHDs in near future, so why the Russkies would not want to have something capable of grabbing a piece of cake?

    They can hoover up the money of clowns wanting a white elephant, but the Russian military should not waste any further money on that dead end.

    23900 are the next ones in mind, as far as Japan operates its own mini carriers with F-35 on board, and the Kuril issue is still on the table, I guess its own solution to this would be nice.

    Except in the Kuriles ground based fighters will be vastly superior to any VSTOL handicapped special needs money pits.

    As for this prototype, I almost get the distinct feeling that it's trying to steal the F-35's thunder. Do 80% if its job for 20% of the cost, and UAC makes a killing in the meantime.

    I agree, but the main problem is that the likely main customers of F-35 could never even pretend to consider a Russian aircraft... performance and cost have nothing to do with that.

    Turkey will like it, and India and Algeria might love it, but I can see China wanting to buy two and about 200 engines.


    I doubt they do this without considering the VKS. But often Russian MoD allows MIC to work on a initiative basis and "convince" them with a design and a business case too. They are not willing to fund anyone's happy engineering, and they are fully right at that.

    They were not keen on the Su-25 till it got combat experience in Afghanistan, and they already knew the MiG-21 and MiG-23 with bombs were not as good as a MiG-15 with bombs.

    They have not got money to throw away, so they are careful and conservative...

    Shame the US military is not more so... things seem to have gone to their heads...

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    Post  LMFS Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:25 pm

    The ruskies don't have rubles to develop another plane... shit they have done it already lol1


    GarryB wrote:They were not keen on the Su-25 till it got combat experience in Afghanistan, and they already knew the MiG-21 and MiG-23 with bombs were not as good as a MiG-15 with bombs.

    They have not got money to throw away, so they are careful and conservative...

    Shame the US military is not more so... things seem to have gone to their heads...

    They are state run, but companies at the end of the day. They are expected to make some money for Russia and not to be a dead weight. Sukhoi understood it in the 90's and they managed to fight for export markets with a very decent success despite the difficulties. It is just logical that they try to get international partnerships, they already demonstrated what they can do with the PAK-FA and now it should be easier to get some Russian program with iinternational cooperation ala JSF. Not easy, but maybe possible. They have to try at least, if it does not work, they will do it on their own and sell at a higher price later. No big drama here.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:31 pm

    LMFS wrote:The ruskies don't have rubles to develop another plane... shit they have done it already lol1

    Just not possible.... every one knows they have a smaller GDP than Italy... lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1

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    Post  Arrow Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:35 pm

    And a gas station that produces nothing with nuclear weapons. Very Happy

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