Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+56
Daniel_Admassu
SeigSoloyvov
slasher
tomazy
jaguar_br
tipex12
mack8
PhSt
Makarov420
x_54_u43
Scorpius
lyle6
hoom
zepia
higurashihougi
Finty
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
Atmosphere
JohninMK
flamming_python
mnztr
littlerabbit
Broski
Hole
kvs
marcellogo
owais.usmani
Lurk83
RTN
Big_Gazza
Cheetah
Tingsay
TMA1
GunshipDemocracy
ALAMO
medo
Dima
Mindstorm
tanino
GarryB
Backman
Gomig-21
thegopnik
Kiko
limb
AMCXXL
Arrow
dino00
George1
Isos
PapaDragon
LMFS
Mir
miketheterrible
Russian_Patriot_
Rasisuki Nebia
60 posters

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 31517
    Points : 32047
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:45 pm

    Amusing you think they have developed a whole new plane in secret... shows how effective western intel is today... bellingcat probably has similar access to satellite photos and is likely as up to date as the US intel...

    If they had the rubles to build a new plane and this is it ready for purchase at MAKS21... I hope a lot of countries took their cheque books, but why would they be hyping it like this if it was already ready.

    This roll out under a tarp was done with the Su-57 in 2009 for a taxi, it didn't take off till a year or two later and is only entering service now... a decade later.

    tanino and Backman like this post

    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4263
    Points : 4347
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  medo Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:54 pm



    Sukhoi is realy fast. A month and a half ago Sukhoi only start developing new light fighter, according to western claims and now they already have a prototype...

    George1, littlerabbit and Finty like this post

    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4263
    Points : 4347
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  medo Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:Amusing you think they have developed a whole new plane in secret... shows how effective western intel is today... bellingcat probably has similar access to satellite photos and is likely as up to date as the US intel...

    If they had the rubles to build a new plane and this is it ready for purchase at MAKS21... I hope a lot of countries took their cheque books, but why would they be hyping it like this if it was already ready.

    This roll out under a tarp was done with the Su-57 in 2009 for a taxi, it didn't take off till a year or two later and is only entering service now... a decade later.

    True. But there is a difference. In that time Russian industry was not as developed as today and Su-57 was the first fifth gen fighter jet and whole new technology have to be developed, tested and matured to get into production. This new one will simply take already developed and matured technology from Su-57, so it will not take that long to go in production. Many things were tested in Su-57 and in S-70 Ohotnik...

    Tingsay, littlerabbit, Finty and Mir like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 884
    Points : 886
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  ALAMO Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:13 pm

    medo wrote:
    True. But there is a difference. In that time Russian industry was not as developed as today and Su-57 was the first fifth gen fighter jet and whole new technology have to be developed, tested and matured to get into production. This new one will simply take already developed and matured technology from Su-57, so it will not take that long to go in production. Many things were tested in Su-57 and in S-70 Ohotnik...

    That.
    And what more, checked the oil prices lately ;-)?
    It functionally doubled this year.
    The same applies to gas, coal, and all the other energy sources.
    Imagine the condition of the Russian budget, they are swimming in cash.

    tanino, littlerabbit, Hole and Backman like this post

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 1098
    Points : 1102
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Mir Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:27 pm

    Mig will now have to really pull up their socks, but having competition usually spurs the best from somebody. I'm pretty sure we'll see the Mig-41 and a new light fighter from Mig in the very near future.

    Finty likes this post

    Rasisuki Nebia
    Rasisuki Nebia


    Posts : 73
    Points : 75
    Join date : 2020-12-25

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Rasisuki Nebia Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:44 pm

    Mig still working on a light fighter? well good to know i really hope they don't fade away just like that after the "merge"
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 1098
    Points : 1102
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Mir Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:49 pm

    Rumoured to be working on a twin engine one? We'll see.
    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21


    Posts : 420
    Points : 422
    Join date : 2016-07-17
    Location : Boston USA

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Gomig-21 Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:58 pm

    medo wrote:
    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:Front view
    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 M-38cv10

    From this picture, it could be clearly seen, that it has side air intakes and not under nose. I wonder if this is just mock up or actual prototype. Undercarriage and engine looks real.

    Between that pic and this one here showing the crease of the cover, it seems to have a very interesting inlet that starts at the top and wraps around the sides and back down below.  Very unique. Also, is the radome painted black?

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 1626432762918-png
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 8189
    Points : 8173
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Isos Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:57 pm

    Su-57 technology and s-70 technology allows to create a smaller aircraft pretty fast.

    Most of the work was done and the design work was also done since years on lot of projects.

    George1 likes this post

    RTN
    RTN


    Posts : 507
    Points : 486
    Join date : 2014-03-24
    Location : Fairfield, CT

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  RTN Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:02 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:They got nobody but themselves to blame

    They were sitting on their asses for 30 years and now Sukhoi is taking their lunch money
    Precisely! Despite the massive success of the Mig 29.

    GarryB wrote:Amusing you think they have developed a whole new plane in secret... shows how effective western intel is today
    Single engine version of the Su 57 it seems.
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 8189
    Points : 8173
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Isos Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:09 pm

    It has the same intakes as on f-35 it seems.
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 1098
    Points : 1102
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Mir Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:20 pm

    Isos wrote:It has the same intakes as on f-35 it seems.

    Nope! But we'll only know for sure when the wraps comes off. Smile
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 1098
    Points : 1102
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Mir Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:23 pm

    RTN wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:They got nobody but themselves to blame

    They were sitting on their asses for 30 years and now Sukhoi is taking their lunch money
    Precisely! Despite the massive success of the Mig 29.

    GarryB wrote:Amusing you think they have developed a whole new plane in secret... shows how effective western intel is today
    Single engine version of the Su 57 it seems.

    You guys are too harsh on Mig. I'm pretty confident we'll at the very least see the Mig-41 very soon. Things are going to get very interesting from now on!

    marcellogo and littlerabbit like this post

    Dima
    Dima


    Posts : 1165
    Points : 1178
    Join date : 2012-03-22

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Dima Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:54 pm

    Kiko wrote:Hopefully it can accommodate a Kh-32 in its internal bays intended for Elizabethan CVN fired from Argentinian one near the Malvinas Islands.
    We can only hope that the weapons bay is large enough to accomadate a decent size missile.

    One of the reason why I dislike the single engined "stealth" aircraft, that too powered by a relatively big engine like AL-series, is that the centreline internal weapons bay gets confined in length and volume.

    That's where a twin engined aircraft, powered by smaller RD-series, aircraft excel. Having a good long centreline weapons bay between the twin intake.

    GarryB, owais.usmani and Mir like this post

    avatar
    Lurk83


    Posts : 91
    Points : 95
    Join date : 2021-02-23

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Lurk83 Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:57 pm

    Dima wrote:
    Kiko wrote:Hopefully it can accommodate a Kh-32 in its internal bays intended for Elizabethan CVN fired from Argentinian one near the Malvinas Islands.
    We can only hope that the weapons bay is large enough to accomadate a decent size missile.

    One of the reason why I dislike the single engined "stealth" aircraft, that too powered by a relatively big engine like AL-series, is that the centreline internal weapons bay gets confined in length and volume.

    That's where a twin engined aircraft, powered by smaller RD-series, aircraft excel. Having a good long centreline weapons bay between the twin intake.

    That's my concern too. It'd suck if it could only hold 4 missiles internally because the engine takes up all the space.

    GarryB likes this post

    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1636
    Points : 1673
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 34
    Location : portugal

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  dino00 Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:00 pm

    This can't be a prototype, at best will be a demonstrator with canabalized parts, Suckoi wasn't developing this 7/8 years ago.
    Is it STOL?
    Should be very close to Borisov desk plane
    Th e advantage of no horizontal stabilizer is in rcs?
    avatar
    Lurk83


    Posts : 91
    Points : 95
    Join date : 2021-02-23

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Lurk83 Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:03 pm

    I think it's gonna look like that lmfs 3d artwork a couple of pages back, with an inlet like borisovs model.  Seems like the radome is smaller than the su57.  The vertical stabilisers look similar in size to su 57 when viewed from the side but look taller in the frontal shots, more like f22 stabilisers? Could just be the angle of the shots I guess. Wonder if it'll have similar features to su57.. Eots/dircm/cheek mounted radars etc. Seems like it doesn't have the serrated izd. 30 nozzle, so presumably has a al41f in it?
    avatar
    Lurk83


    Posts : 91
    Points : 95
    Join date : 2021-02-23

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Lurk83 Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:08 pm

    dino00 wrote:
    Should be very close to Borisov desk plane
    Th e advantage of no horizontal stabilizer is in rcs?

    Has to be some advantages from some angles when it comes to radar return. Horizontal stabiliser is a reflective surface. No surface present, no reflection possible. How much benefit? Who can say.

    dino00 likes this post

    Dima
    Dima


    Posts : 1165
    Points : 1178
    Join date : 2012-03-22

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Dima Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:13 pm

    limb wrote:So the RD series is in the dustbin of history? Its sad that klimov is going extinct, it was a truly great engine design bureau.
    If you fall for the "experts" view on the MiG and Kilmov, you are bound to believe that its all the fault of the MiG. Which it is not! I guess all those experts are either ignoring or not aware of the dirty work Sukhoi management have been doing all these decades to undermine almost all others OKBs to create a monopoly.

    Klimov is going nowhere. Allmost all the engines for rotary winged are designed by Klimov and so does the 3D TVC that we see on the RD and AL series. They are the pioneers in those and way back in 2004 those were rated for 500hours.

    Finty likes this post

    avatar
    owais.usmani


    Posts : 914
    Points : 912
    Join date : 2019-03-27
    Age : 35

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  owais.usmani Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:14 pm

    Some one did this speculative artwork at paralay boards for a F-35B analogue:

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Vtol10

    AMCXXL and Finty like this post

    AMCXXL
    AMCXXL


    Posts : 543
    Points : 543
    Join date : 2017-08-08

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  AMCXXL Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:36 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:Some one did this speculative artwork at paralay boards for a F-35B analogue:

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Vtol10

    Yes, it makes a lot of sense if Russia wants to have a new shipborne airplane for the future aircraft carriers in the 2030s.

    It will be necessary to see what is under the cover, but it reminds me one Yak.

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 11951343_771633389625352_1049024057903388681_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3X2Td4fFuWIAX90Sgnw&_nc_ht=scontent-mad1-1


    Last edited by AMCXXL on Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Finty likes this post

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 1098
    Points : 1102
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Mir Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:37 pm

    I can't imagine this to be a VTOL at all. Not saying that it could later be developed into one, but...no VTOL right there.

    I'll eat two chocolate cakes if it is! lol!

    littlerabbit likes this post

    Dima
    Dima


    Posts : 1165
    Points : 1178
    Join date : 2012-03-22

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Dima Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:37 pm

    medo wrote:New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Ohotni10

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 _jqp4b10

    Agree. We all expect new light fighter from MiG, but this one is from Sukhoi. It is interesting, that they keep it in secret and now made a total surprise. I think they hide this project with S-70 Ohotnik UCAV. The first prototype of Ohotnik have full engine with afterburner, although it will have stealth nozzle with engine without afterburner. Most probably it is prototype of Ohotnik and simultaneously testbed for new single engine fighter. So I agree, that this is real prototype. Considering how they keep it in secret, I would not be surprized if it already made its first flight. If it will fly in MAKS, that it absolutly made its first flight. That would be an epic surprise.
    Thanks for posting.
    I see lots of similarity in these two. The centre fuselage looks almost the same down to the undercarriages.
    Edit out those slanted vertical stabs and it would look like the S-70 rearend.

    Sort of like an S-70 with a cockpit, new wings, vertical stabs, re-routed intakes, etc.  Very Happy
    Most likely using a common platform for S-70 and this single-engined fighter.

    Finty likes this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 884
    Points : 886
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  ALAMO Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:45 pm

    Mir wrote:
    I'll eat two chocolate cakes if it is! lol!

    You are so uncompromised to yourself! Laughing Laughing

    Mir likes this post

    Dima
    Dima


    Posts : 1165
    Points : 1178
    Join date : 2012-03-22

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Dima Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:47 pm

    ALAMO wrote:By the way, I will not agree with you who claim that the STOL/VTOL version is not needed.
    It is.
    And I have the first export customer in mind.
    Turkey Twisted Evil
    As one already said, don't remember who, there are lots of countries who will equip in STOL capable LHDs in near future, so why the Russkies would not want to have something capable of grabbing a piece of cake?
    23900 are the next ones in mind, as far as Japan operates its own mini carriers with F-35 on board, and the Kuril issue is still on the table, I guess its own solution to this would be nice.
    Yes, that's my view as well. Russia need to have the Yak back to life and Turkey is the potential customer, having lost access to F-35. The other one could be China.

    Sponsored content


    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 6 Empty Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:49 pm