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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

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    gbu48098

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    Post  gbu48098 Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:53 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    RT and Sputnik are aimed at a western audience so of course it is going to look like much the same shit the western media is pumping out... you will, however, notice less spin and different angles on most topics that western media seem to ignore which makes it amusing.

    I find they spend too much time talking about the west and America in particular for my tastes...

    Except it is not....they literally repost majority of the articles and pathetic in writing any articles. What you re saying is there is an agenda and its not about reporting objectively or even one's take without stepping into faultlines of propaganda. Only real good thing is no ads and I am happy for that...

    Do not even talk about local coverage in countries around the world....literally runs counter to majority section of the locals because they parrot the reuters or some affiliate in local area.
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    Post  Arrow Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:00 pm

    Russia is withdrawing troops from the vicinity of the border with Ukraine. He quickly withdrew.

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    Post  Finty Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:56 pm

    Nice one. I was surprised for a second but ultimately an escalation in conflict by the Russians wasn't likely.
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    Post  gbu48098 Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:57 pm

    Finty wrote:Nice one. I was surprised for a second but ultimately an escalation in conflict by the Russians wasn't likely.
    Source?
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    Post  Finty Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:05 pm

    gbu48098 wrote:
    Finty wrote:Nice one. I was surprised for a second but ultimately an escalation in conflict by the Russians wasn't likely.
    Source?

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/04/22/russia-to-withdraw-troops-from-ukraine-border-crimea-a73705

    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/politics/russia-says-withdrawing-troops-from-ukrainian-border/2217089

    https://eurasiantimes.com/russia-to-withdraw-troops-from-ukrainian-border-defense-minister-sergey-shoygu/
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    Post  gbu48098 Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:09 pm

    [quote="Finty"]
    gbu48098 wrote:
    Finty wrote:Nice one. I was surprised for a second but ultimately an escalation in conflict by the Russians wasn't likely.
    Source?


    Quick read makes me think its just proportionate to deescalation on both sides mostly words?
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:12 pm

    kvs wrote:The US clown-chimps can approve unicorns and rainbow farts.   The Ukr regime forces are rotten and throwing some toys at them is not going
    to give them the ethnic cleansing victory they crave.   Nope, Amerislimes are going to have to do the fighting for the Kiev regime and
    that ain't gonna happen.


    Well, they have a tendency to go missing whatever equipment they get.  And it is $300m in equipment. So they will end up with more trash like cheap Humvees and rafts.

    As for the two dipshits here, yeah, it is called drills. After drills, they go back to their bases.

    But now Crimea is getting new formations thus more troops and equipment.

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    Post  kvs Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:25 pm

    Regarding the Crimea's legal status.   The west wants to have its cake and eat it too.   The ICJ verdict in 2008 on Kosovo clearly "establishes"
    that recognized borders and "territorial integrity" are superseded by the right to self determination.    So the 64% ethnic Russian majority in Crimea
    gets to decide.   But the ICJ ruling is not required for Crimea since it was already self-determined in 1990 before the annexation by Ukraine.

    I will repeat, international law is a farce.   There is clearly no statutory law since there is no global government.   The UN is not a legislature
    but a diplomatic talking venue.   So we have attempts to cast international law as a type of common law, i.e. precedent based.   This is BS
    as well since common law still requires a sovereign.   No country is obliged to abide by any precedent, especially considering that most such
    precedents have been barbarity in action (invasions, occupations, regime changes, blockades, etc.).    These precdents are also schizophrenic
    and totally contradictory.   For example the state of Israel gets to exist, by Palestine does not.    And the US learned to care about the
    self-determination of Kurds when it invaded Iraq in 2003 and its current invasion of north-east Syria.


    Last edited by kvs on Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:51 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : revised for clarity)

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    Post  gbu48098 Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:32 pm

    kvs wrote:Regarding the Crimea's legal status.   The west wants to have its cake and eat it too.   The ICJ verdict in 2008 on Kosovo clearly rejects the notion
    that recognized borders and "territorial integrity" are superseded by the right to self determination.    So the 64% ethnic Russian majority in Crimea
    gets to decide.   But the ICJ ruling is not required for Crimea since it was already self-determined in 1990 before the annexation by Ukraine.

    I will repeat, international law is a farce.   There is clearly no statutory law since there is no global government.   The UN is not a legislature
    but a diplomatic talking venue.   So we have attempts to cast international law as a type of common law, i.e. precedent based.   This is BS
    as well since common law still requires a sovereign.   No country is obliged to abide by any precedent, especially considering that most such
    precedents have been barbarity in action (invasions, occupations, regime changes, blockades, etc.).    These precdents are also schizophrenic
    and totally contradictory.   For example the state of Israel gets to exist, by Palestine does not.    And the US learned to care about the
    self-determination of Kurds when it invaded Iraq in 2003 and its current invasion of north-east Syria.  

    So? Whats new in what you are saying? Laws and rules are means to control sheep even when they are applied within a sovereign entity....once in a while pretend shows are arranged to show their teeth and inviolability but its just that pretending. Might and power are the only real physical instruments of change most often and tehy create the rules and laws. If one trusts in them like Garry talks about morals then it kinda gets duplicitous domain. When the big ones agree and they do but eventual entropy almost always creates chaos and they try to redo the whole rules and laws fitting the new power statures.

    It is all crap at an individual level, you mess with a powerful individual in personal life and see the probability of coming out on top....
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    Post  Finty Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:55 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    kvs wrote:The US clown-chimps can approve unicorns and rainbow farts.   The Ukr regime forces are rotten and throwing some toys at them is not going
    to give them the ethnic cleansing victory they crave.   Nope, Amerislimes are going to have to do the fighting for the Kiev regime and
    that ain't gonna happen.


    Well, they have a tendency to go missing whatever equipment they get.  And it is $300m in equipment. So they will end up with more trash like cheap Humvees and rafts.

    As for the two dipshits here, yeah, it is called drills. After drills, they go back to their bases.

    But now Crimea is getting new formations thus more troops and equipment.

    Who you calling dipshit, dipshit?
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    Post  gbu48098 Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:59 pm

    Finty wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    kvs wrote:The US clown-chimps can approve unicorns and rainbow farts.   The Ukr regime forces are rotten and throwing some toys at them is not going
    to give them the ethnic cleansing victory they crave.   Nope, Amerislimes are going to have to do the fighting for the Kiev regime and
    that ain't gonna happen.


    Well, they have a tendency to go missing whatever equipment they get.  And it is $300m in equipment. So they will end up with more trash like cheap Humvees and rafts.

    As for the two dipshits here, yeah, it is called drills. After drills, they go back to their bases.

    But now Crimea is getting new formations thus more troops and equipment.

    Who you calling dipshit, dipshit?
    First and 2nd derivative of the context tells me its you and Arrow I guess...don't get me wrong its not me that said it
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:18 pm

    Finty wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    kvs wrote:The US clown-chimps can approve unicorns and rainbow farts.   The Ukr regime forces are rotten and throwing some toys at them is not going
    to give them the ethnic cleansing victory they crave.   Nope, Amerislimes are going to have to do the fighting for the Kiev regime and
    that ain't gonna happen.


    Well, they have a tendency to go missing whatever equipment they get.  And it is $300m in equipment. So they will end up with more trash like cheap Humvees and rafts.

    As for the two dipshits here, yeah, it is called drills. After drills, they go back to their bases.

    But now Crimea is getting new formations thus more troops and equipment.

    Who you calling dipshit, dipshit?

    Why not guess?

    A lot of new members with ever so amazing detective skills and intellect.  What great contribution to this site.

    Even when Vlad was the admin things were better. That's for sure.
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    Post  franco Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:27 pm

    Donbass today: officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine choose peace, national guardsmen are tired of fighting

    Donbass, April 21. Two defenders of the DPR were killed as a result of shelling from the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The soldiers and officers of the Ukrainian army are increasingly choosing an alternative to war and breaking contracts. Kiev discredits the role and functions of the JCCC coordination mechanism. The latest news from Novorossiya is in the FAN review .

    Operational environment

    Eight attacks per day from the Armed Forces of Ukraine were recorded in the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics. In the DPR, three settlements were fired upon with the use of 120-mm and 82-mm mortars, hand-held anti-tank and automatic heavy-duty grenade launchers. Two defenders of the republic were killed as a result of the aggression of Kiev. In the LPR, from anti-tank and automatic grenade launchers, as well as large-caliber machine guns, Zolotoe-5, Molodezhnoe and the village of Donetsk were fired upon. The result was damage to a residential apartment in Zolote-5.

    Soldiers and officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine break contracts with the army

    An increasing number of Ukrainian military are choosing an alternative to war. Someone deserts from the front lines, some, unable to withstand the psychological stress, commit suicide, but many break contracts with the Armed Forces of Ukraine and go home. The Luhansk department of the People's Militia reported about the situation in one of the military units deployed in the zone of responsibility of the northern operational-tactical group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

    In the 14th separate mechanized brigade of the Ukrainian army, since the beginning of April, more than forty military men, including 16 officers, have filed a resignation report. In connection with this state of affairs, and this process is also characteristic of other units and formations of the Armed Forces in the Joint Forces Operation zone, the army command is taking urgent measures - it involves reservists and is replenishing “scarce” units with personnel from other groups.
    National guards complained to Avakov about the JFO headquarters

    Processes similar to those described above are taking place in the units of the National Guard (part of the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs) and the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine involved in the military operation. Recently, the Minister of Internal Affairs Arsen Avakov visited the National Guardsmen and policemen in the JFO zone. The reason for the unexpected arrival of the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is the numerous complaints of the personnel of the National Guard and the police, involved in the execution of combat missions by the JFO headquarters, about the biased attitude of the military and, as a result, the receipt of orders to carry out tasks that are not characteristic of police officers on the front lines.

    The fact is that all units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine, including units of the National Guard, are subordinate to the JFO headquarters for the duration of the military operation. That, in turn, in order to "patch holes" in the units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, experiencing an acute shortage of personnel, often sends Interior Ministry officers to the front line to carry out combat duty together with the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. This, in turn, is strongly disliked by the representatives of the law enforcement agency. Moreover, the headquarters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine brigades do not receive additional payments for the performance of combat missions.

    In connection with the above circumstances, the police and national guards demanded from Avakov to return them to the subordination of the relevant institutions and structures of the internal affairs bodies.

    The Ukrainian Armed Forces continue to discredit the JCCC

    Let's return a little to the general combat situation. For all shelling carried out by Ukrainian troops, in particular on the territory of the DPR, the Donetsk office in the Joint Center for Control and Coordination of the Ceasefire Regime notified the Ukrainian side in the same Center. This mechanism was developed to strengthen control over the observance of the ceasefire by the parties. As reported in Donetsk, recently the Ukrainian side has simply ignored all the messages of Donetsk residents.

    In developing this topic, we note that the transport of the Ukrainian representative office in the JCCC, which has a certain humanitarian immunity, continues to be used by the Ukrainian security forces to carry out combat missions. The people's police of the DPR informs about the delivery of a batch of guided missiles to anti-tank systems at the position of the 72nd separate mechanized brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine by a truck of the Ukrainian representative office in the JCCC. Earlier, both in Donetsk and Lugansk, they repeatedly informed about similar actions of the enemy.

    Based on the above, we come to the simple conclusion that Ukraine actually left the coordination mechanism with the use of the JCCC, and abandoned all the forces and means, including humanitarian transport, to prepare a breakthrough in the defense of the republics. This is also proved by the fact that Kiev fulfills the Minsk agreements only in rhetoric before the international community, and de facto has long ceased to comply with even the slightest conditions for maintaining an armistice in Donbass. How long the Joint Center for Control and Coordination of the Ceasefire Regime will last in this regime - the question remains open.

    https://obq7w2ejwlpt6rhxvmbrqtk4tm-ac4c6men2g7xr2a-riafan-ru.translate.goog/1429524-donbass-segodnya-oficery-vsu-vybirayut-mir-nacgvardeicy-ustali-voevat?utm_source=warfiles.ru&utm_campaign=auction

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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:31 pm

    So then it's assumed that the nazi wannabe groups Azov and such are still at the frontline.
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    Post  franco Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:44 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:So then it's assumed that the nazi wannabe groups Azov and such are still at the frontline.

    My understanding is there are 50,000 Ukrainian army and 20,000 Ukrainian security forces normally in the Donbass on the frontlines against 30,000 or so NAF. This crisis came when another 30,000 troops plus heavy weapons were moved into the area. Apparently earlier this week 2 battalions of the Azov were moved up from Mariupol (their normal area) to the front lines facing Donetsk City. Most of these 20,000 security forces would be your nazi wannabe's with the Azov unit being the largest.

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    Post  kvs Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:59 pm

    Supposedly the training exercise deployments "to Ukraine's borders" have moved back to barracks.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/de-escalation-or-calm-storm-russia-orders-troops-back-after-massive-crimea-drills

    But the retards in Khuyiv are doubling down:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraines-president-signs-bill-call-reservists-moment-russia-appears-de-escalate

    The regime in Khuyiv is clearly under orders to proceed with the Russia war bait operation. Bidet and his neocon stolen election
    administration needs to keep the sheeple's attention away from America's problems.

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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:30 pm

    The movement of troops from Russia westwards I believe was not just training multiple unit groups and or showing Ukraine that it's willing to move if necessary, but to also see how long it takes to actually move such large forces in a short period.

    Wouldn't make sense to move so many units to the border and wait. So long as they can move en mass quickly, they can supply any of crimes units quickly with equipment and additional troops.

    What's telling was the recent increase of regiments in Crimea. Crimean forces from Russia was already sufficient to take on Ukraine.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:14 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:The movement of troops from Russia westwards I believe was not just training multiple unit groups and or showing Ukraine that it's willing to move if necessary, but to also see how long it takes to actually move such large forces in a short period.

    Wouldn't make sense to move so many units to the border and wait. So long as they can move en mass quickly, they can supply any of crimes units quickly with equipment and additional troops.

    What's telling was the recent increase of regiments in Crimea.  Crimean forces from Russia was already sufficient to take on Ukraine.
    my understanding is that some of the vehicles and equipment belonging to the central military district of the Russian federation will remain in the western (Ukrainian border) and southern (Crimea) districts to be ready for the autumn ZAPAD21 exercises.

    Men could be moved much faster if necessary

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    Post  auslander Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:25 pm

    Senior command echelons were just to Krimu and have adjudged the training exercises in the east quarter of the island successful. Some units involved in the training are being rotated out to their bases. I do not know if other units will rotate in for training, but it is publik knowledge that the exercises are combined operations involving VDV, Black Sea and Caspian Sea Flots and ground units of various composition. The large closed areas of the Sea and air districts from Yevpatoria around to Kerch are still in affect until fall at least.

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    Post  JohninMK Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:00 pm

    auslander wrote:Senior command echelons were just to Krimu and have adjudged the training exercises in the east quarter of the island successful. Some units involved in the training are being rotated out to their bases. I do not know if other units will rotate in for training, but it is publik knowledge that the exercises are combined operations involving VDV, Black Sea and Caspian Sea Flots and ground units of various composition. The large closed areas of the Sea and air districts from Yevpatoria around to Kerch are still in affect until fall at least.

    It was reported that Shoigu was down your way today.

    Also

    Rob Lee
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    In addition, the VDV's 56th Air Assault Brigade is being reformed into a regiment based in Feodosia, Crimea. So the forces in Crimea will still be stronger than from before.

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    Post  auslander Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:07 pm

    JohninMK wrote:It was reported that Shoigu was down your way today.
    Also
    Rob Lee
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    5h
    In addition, the VDV's 56th Air Assault Brigade is being reformed into a regiment based in Feodosia, Crimea. So the forces in Crimea will still be stronger than from before.

    Hence the term 'senior command echelons'. His name was mentioned in local news this morning.
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    Post  gbu48098 Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:29 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:The movement of troops from Russia westwards I believe was not just training multiple unit groups and or showing Ukraine that it's willing to move if necessary, but to also see how long it takes to actually move such large forces in a short period.

    Wouldn't make sense to move so many units to the border and wait. So long as they can move en mass quickly, they can supply any of crimes units quickly with equipment and additional troops.

    What's telling was the recent increase of regiments in Crimea.  Crimean forces from Russia was already sufficient to take on Ukraine.
    my understanding is that some of the vehicles and equipment belonging to the central military district of the Russian federation  will remain in the western (Ukrainian border) and southern (Crimea) districts to be ready for the autumn ZAPAD21 exercises.

    Men could be moved much faster if necessary

    More huffing and puffing from both sides while the meat grinder keeps grinding for breakaway regions. Sad for those stuck there...

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:25 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:....Men could be moved much faster if necessary

    And aircraft even faster which is what's really bothering 404s

    So unless VKS moves it's birds beyond the Urals nothing changes there

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    Post  franco Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:45 pm

    There are 6 Russian regions (provinces / states) that border directly on Ukraine. In those areas alone, there is enough military force to put a world of hurt on the Ukrainian's:

    - 1 Naval Infantry brigade
    - 1 Airborne regiment / brigade
    - 1 Coastal Defense brigade (basically a Motor Rifle regiment plus)
    - 6 Motor Rifle regiments
    - 3 Tank regiments
    - 1 Spetsnaz brigade
    - 1 Reconnaissance brigade
    - 4 Artillery regiments
    - 1 Iskander brigade

    Go on to the second line of Russians regions that border onto those first 6 and you have another:

    - 2 Airborne regiments
    - 2 Motor Rifle brigades
    - 1 Tank regiment
    - 2 Spetsnaz regiments / brigades
    - 1 Artillery brigade
    - 2 Iskander brigades

    So basically all of them should be in action within 24-96 hours.This exercise was to practice getting the 3rd and 4th line units up to the border regions.

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    Post  franco Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:56 pm

    The Air power for those regions mentioned above have:

    - 5 squadrons Su-30SM's
    - 5 squadrons Su-34
    - 4 squadrons Su-27SM3/SM/P
    - 5 squadrons Su-25SM3/SM
    - 3 squadrons Su-24M's
    - 5 Army Aviation regiments / brigades (~11 squadrons attack helicopters )




    The Navy additionally have 6 submarines and 11 warships in the Black and Caspian Seas that have Kalibr's.

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