Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+52
andalusia
Karl Haushofer
11E
George1
gbu48098
Isos
thedrunkengeneral
wilhelm
zorobabel
elconquistador
bitcointrader70
Nomad5891
MiddleKingdomer
bren_tann
mnztr
DerWolf
calripson
Azi
Arrow
SeigSoloyvov
owais.usmani
flamming_python
Hannibal Barca
Maximmmm
mavaff
Yugo90
The_Observer
ATLASCUB
Rasisuki Nebia
Boshoed
auslander
par far
nero
AlfaT8
GarryB
lancelot
Vann7
Finty
franco
PapaDragon
Rodion_Romanovic
Backman
miketheterrible
LMFS
littlerabbit
medo
Hole
lyle6
VARGR198
kvs
JohninMK
magnumcromagnon
56 posters

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    avatar
    par far


    Posts : 3488
    Points : 3733
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  par far Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:21 pm













    Backman
    Backman


    Posts : 2611
    Points : 2623
    Join date : 2020-11-11

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  Backman Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:26 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:

    The U.S is right in their assessment that Russia is a declining power geopolitically. I can't disagree with that... specially if the U.S and allies, with their NATO/EU construct continue, successfully, to push them East. Moscow proper is literally a bridge away.


    This is hyperbolic nonsense and the opposite is actually true. Russia is the only country in the world fighting head to head against the empire around the world. On all fronts. Did you think this was going to be easy ? In any hot spot in the world, Russia is playing the spoiler. What made you think that it was going to be easy to roll the USSR back together in this environment ? Crimea was the big prize. They kept that. And 30% of Ukraines industrial output is in Donbass. They have that too. And its not over. Just like it wasn't over when the US scooped up Ukraine in 2004.

    China is an economic equal to the US and yet its a mouse on the international stage. Just compare Libya to Syria. Russia single handedly stopped a US regime change in Syria. They were bombing CIA assets into the ground and got away with it. All the while having good relations with Israel, Iran and even Saudi Arabia. What did China do when the US turned its sights on Libya ? It evacuated 60,000 of its own people and watched.

    It would sure be easier if Russia has any help from another major power. But it doesn't. The US has 3 or 4 regime changes going at the same time in and around China. Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet, Xingang, Myanmar ect. Thailand and North Korea. Is China a declining power too ?

    For whatever reason, you thought fighting this enemy was going to be easy. dunno


    GarryB, flamming_python, auslander, JohninMK, miketheterrible, LMFS and Hole like this post

    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4342
    Points : 4422
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  medo Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:46 pm

    https://vk.com/novnews?w=wall-50332460_2006596

    Novorussian army building new defense lines...
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10872
    Points : 10850
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  Hole Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:45 pm

    kvs wrote:So the Banderites want Patriot missile systems deployed by NATzO to fend off Russia.

    lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1

    clown

    Worked great in Saudi-Arabia. pwnd Laughing Laughing Laughing

    franco, JohninMK and lancelot like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14878
    Points : 15017
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  JohninMK Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:52 pm

    medo wrote:https://vk.com/novnews?w=wall-50332460_2006596

    Novorussian army building new defense lines...

    2nd line of defense of the Donbass. Better late than never

    Under Yasinovataya, company strongpoints are being built in case of a breakthrough of the 1st line of defense of the DPR.


    Could be on the western front WW1.
    franco
    franco


    Posts : 6737
    Points : 6763
    Join date : 2010-08-17

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  franco Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:17 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    medo wrote:https://vk.com/novnews?w=wall-50332460_2006596

    Novorussian army building new defense lines...

    2nd line of defense of the Donbass. Better late than never

    Under Yasinovataya, company strongpoints are being built in case of a breakthrough of the 1st line of defense of the DPR.


    Could be on the western front WW1.

    I noticed a map within the past week in which it was claimed that the Ukrainians had 3 lines of defense. Have done some research over the past few years on some WW1 battles in which great-uncles had been killed and this is very much similar.
    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14878
    Points : 15017
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  JohninMK Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:02 pm

    The Barents Observer
    @BarentsNews
    ·
    10h
    Visiting Northern Fleet, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu signals buildup along Ukrainian border will end in 2 weeks
    avatar
    MiddleKingdomer


    Posts : 9
    Points : 9
    Join date : 2021-04-14

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  MiddleKingdomer Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:32 am

    Backman wrote:
    China is an economic equal to the US and yet its a mouse on the international stage.

    China is panda bear. Herbivore. Compared to Russia is brown bear. Carnivore.[/quote]


    Last edited by MiddleKingdomer on Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:46 am; edited 2 times in total
    avatar
    MiddleKingdomer


    Posts : 9
    Points : 9
    Join date : 2021-04-14

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  MiddleKingdomer Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:39 am

    Russia must do for Donbas more than what Armenia did for Artsakh when Azerbaijan invaded Artsakh. Russia must declare Ukraine violated Minsk treaty and declare war on Ukraine, recognize Donbas, and provide full military support the way Russia did against Georgia in 2008 when Georgia invaded Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

    miketheterrible and Yugo90 like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9077
    Points : 9139
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:22 am

    MiddleKingdomer wrote:Russia must do for Donbas more than what Armenia did for Artsakh when Azerbaijan invaded Artsakh. Russia must declare Ukraine violated Minsk treaty and declare war on Ukraine, recognize Donbas, and provide full military support the way Russia did against Georgia in 2008 when Georgia invaded Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

    That's a good analogy actually

    Well there's still time for Kiev to see sense. Russia is giving it that time, in the hopes that Nord Stream 2 can be completed and a mess can be averted.

    Yugo90 likes this post

    avatar
    Nomad5891


    Posts : 62
    Points : 64
    Join date : 2021-02-04

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  Nomad5891 Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:59 am

    Most people here describe the anexation of Crimea like some kind of huge win for Russian Federation.
    I would be more cautious and say it was just the best option USA left Russia with.

    A huge win for Russia would be to have a stable and friendly Ucraine as neighbour.
    Or convert Mexico or Canada into failed states, while EU sanctions USA for hacking into Russian elections.

    The setbacks for Russian economy because of Ucraine going rogue were pretty huge. Anexation of Crimea was not cheap either. Sanctions for sure had negative impact. Russia was hurt. I do agree they managed to minimize damage the best they could, and played the cards they were dealt the best they could.
    But calling it a win...USA won that match, the same way Russia won Syria's game and USA lost it.

    Finty likes this post

    lyle6
    lyle6


    Posts : 2210
    Points : 2204
    Join date : 2020-09-13
    Location : Philippines

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  lyle6 Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:26 am

    It'd be a pyrrhic victory at best. A stable and friendly Ukraine is contingent on a steady wave of Russian moneys, funds which could be better allocated someplace else. Once the gravy train stops, Ukraine would be back to its normal state of dilapidation and hating Russia.
    No dice.

    GarryB, flamming_python, auslander, miketheterrible and LMFS like this post

    auslander
    auslander


    Posts : 1637
    Points : 1715
    Join date : 2015-04-25

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  auslander Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:32 am

    Nomad5891 wrote:Most people here describe the anexation of Crimea like some kind of huge win for Russian Federation.
    I would be more cautious and say it was just the best option USA left Russia with.

    A huge win for Russia would be to have a stable and friendly Ucraine as neighbour.
    Or convert Mexico or Canada into failed states, while EU sanctions USA for hacking into Russian elections.

    The setbacks for Russian economy because of Ucraine going rogue were pretty huge. Anexation of Crimea was not cheap either. Sanctions for sure had negative impact. Russia was hurt. I do agree they managed to minimize damage the best they could, and played the cards they were dealt the best they could.
    But calling it a win...USA won that match, the same way Russia won Syria's game and USA lost it.

    Russia did not 'annex' Krim and The Federal City, we the citizens handed them to Russia on a silver platter. US 'won' that match? You obviously don't follow either this forum or know anything about history near and far. The prize of the coup in Kiev was this city, Sevastopol, pure and simple. Who ended up with the city? SehSha didn't for sure.

    GarryB, JohninMK, miketheterrible and LMFS like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9077
    Points : 9139
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:40 am

    Nomad5891 wrote:Most people here describe the anexation of Crimea like some kind of huge win for Russian Federation.
    I would be more cautious and say it was just the best option USA left Russia with.

    A huge win for Russia would be to have a stable and friendly Ucraine as neighbour.
    Or convert Mexico or Canada into failed states, while EU sanctions USA for hacking into Russian elections.

    The setbacks for Russian economy because of Ucraine going rogue were pretty huge. Anexation of Crimea was not cheap either. Sanctions for sure had negative impact. Russia was hurt. I do agree they managed to minimize damage the best they could, and played the cards they were dealt the best they could.
    But calling it a win...USA won that match, the same way Russia won Syria's game and USA lost it.

    Na. Rent for all the military facilities there was high, and Russia was forced to do a lot of favours just to get the lease extended in 2010; such as dropping the gas price by a whopping $100. And this was under Yanukovich.

    Getting the Crimea back was an issue ever since Ukrainian independence:
    https://twitter.com/ru30563345/status/1305373912931471361

    It all took place without any casualties or successful destabilization on the peninsula itself. Sanctions are a small price to pay for that strategic piece of real estate and the extra 2.5 million loyal people who live there.

    Theoretically, Crimea could have continued to be part of a Ukraine with a strategic orientation to Russia, but that's all history now and really has been since the end of the USSR. The Ukraine only ever pursued friendly policies towards Russia out of necessity, to continue its economic lifelines, while it orientated itself more and more towards EU and NATO integration. The Ukro elite let Yanukovich play president as a continuation of this policy, but the moment he refused the EU deal, even in favour of a much better Russian one - he was simply overthrown.

    auslander and JohninMK like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14878
    Points : 15017
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  JohninMK Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:50 am

    MiddleKingdomer wrote:Russia must do for Donbas more than what Armenia did for Artsakh when Azerbaijan invaded Artsakh. Russia must declare Ukraine violated Minsk treaty and declare war on Ukraine, recognize Donbas, and provide full military support the way Russia did against Georgia in 2008 when Georgia invaded Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

    Please follow the rules and introduce yourself

    https://www.russiadefence.net/f6-member-introductions-and-rules
    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14878
    Points : 15017
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  JohninMK Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:30 am

    Another subtle message from the US 'count us out'.

    spriters
    @spriters11
    ·
    11h
    The United States notified Turkey of the cancellation of the passage of two of its military vessels through the Bosphorus and Dardanelles to the Black Sea, RIA Novosti reports citing its source in the Turkish Foreign Ministry.



    Meanwhile, big publicity splurge from our UK MoD. We are sending 6 Typhoons and support to Romania to show Putin that NATO, OK the UK, really means business in Ukraine and he should back down.

    OK, but what's this in the last paragraph in small print? Oh yes, this is a deployment planned 6 months ago as an annual NATO exercise Laughing Laughing

    GarryB, miketheterrible, LMFS and Hole like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9077
    Points : 9139
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:35 am

    Just a lull in the storm

    Washington wants to negotiate with Moscow its break from China

    Else the Kiev offensive is on and Nord Stream 2 is off

    And I think you can count on it that one way or the other the answer will be expected a good margin before the finish of Nord Stream 2

    The arm-flailing way Moscow has been reacting thus far; demonstratively deploying forces, talking about Srebrenica, labelling the US an enemy - only exposes its weakness and lack of control. NATO knows it has Russia by the throat here. Putin has to come up with something smarter, and he hasn't got much time.
    littlerabbit
    littlerabbit


    Posts : 233
    Points : 233
    Join date : 2017-07-03
    Location : Serbia

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  littlerabbit Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:16 am

    JohninMK wrote:The Barents Observer
    @BarentsNews
    ·
    10h
    Visiting Northern Fleet, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu signals buildup along Ukrainian border will end in 2 weeks

    I'm not sure what does this means..."we will pull out our troops in 2 weeks" or "you have 2 more weeks to think it over, before we finish concentration of our troops"...?
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9077
    Points : 9139
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:38 am

    littlerabbit wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:The Barents Observer
    @BarentsNews
    ·
    10h
    Visiting Northern Fleet, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu signals buildup along Ukrainian border will end in 2 weeks

    I'm not sure what does this means..."we will pull out our troops in 2 weeks" or "you have 2 more weeks to think it over, before we finish concentration of our troops"...?

    Well, he says the build-up will finish, not that they'll be withdrawn

    The military is a stickler for precise language.

    Yugo90 likes this post

    avatar
    bitcointrader70


    Posts : 271
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2021-04-15

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  bitcointrader70 Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:23 am

    More sanctions on Russia today. Putin is in a very tough bind. If he goes into Ukraine Russia loses Nordstream 2. If he sits back and does nothing NATO moves into Ukraine while Russia slowly bleeds and becomes weaker and weaker with population decline. Putin needs to act decisively. Have nuclear armed forces on full alert to be ready for US NATO And use tactical nukes to send Ukraine back to the fucking Stone Age. It’s either WW3 or Russia slowly perishes into nothing. The delusional Russia fanboys on this forum are in denial/hysteria. Russia is a dying country with a few moments of technological brilliance. Losing Ukraine is a no go.

    miketheterrible dislikes this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9077
    Points : 9139
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:41 am

    bitcointrader70 wrote:More sanctions on Russia today. Putin is in a very tough bind. If he goes into Ukraine Russia loses Nordstream 2. If he sits back and does nothing NATO moves into Ukraine while Russia slowly bleeds and becomes weaker and weaker with population decline. Putin needs to act decisively. Have nuclear armed forces on full alert to be ready for US NATO And use tactical nukes to send Ukraine back to the fucking Stone Age. It’s either WW3 or Russia slowly perishes into nothing. The delusional Russia fanboys on this forum are in denial/hysteria. Russia is a dying country with a few moments of technological brilliance. Losing Ukraine is a no go.

    Taking the Ukraine will only worsen population decline, as that place has it worse. Even though it would raise the actual amount of population

    But since a worrying percent of that population would be Ukronazi fanboys convinced that they're the progenitors of Sumerian civilization, it's better just to avoid them and the territory they squat in, and just let whoever wants to emigrate to Russia do so in the coming years, filtering out or deporting any bad crap that tries to seep through by checking for Ukrainian Army active duty post 2014, membership in any Right Sektor/Azov/any number of nationalist parties in the Rada, bot posting on Twitter and other platforms, Nazi tattoos, membership in Maidan volunteer organizations, and so on.

    Face it, it's a hole.

    Putin is a tough bind but he's not going to trade away Russia's sovereignty so the Biden summit is a no-go. I'm guessing his calculation is in drilling it into Kiev's head that Russia's not kidding. That whatever Washington encourages or suggests them to do in terms of an offensive - said offensive will be a death sentence for them. No need for tactical nukes or anything; unless NATO decides to join the party and engage Russian forces.

    GarryB likes this post

    LMFS
    LMFS


    Posts : 5108
    Points : 5104
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  LMFS Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:50 am

    flamming_python wrote:Putin is a tough bind but he's not going to trade away Russia's sovereignty so the Biden summit is a no-go. I'm guessing his calculation is in drilling it into Kiev's head that Russia's not kidding. That whatever Washington encourages or suggests them to do in terms of an offensive - said offensive will be a death sentence for them. No need for tactical nukes or anything; unless NATO decides to join the party and engage Russian forces.

    That is called escalation dominance and is no tough bind for Russia, no matter what shitstorm some newcomers want to unleash in this board. If the ukros or NATO go too far, they will get their faces stomped, period. NS2 and the "cooperation" with EU they can stick them where they like, it is not Russia that will be the main loser here.

    miketheterrible likes this post

    avatar
    bitcointrader70


    Posts : 271
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2021-04-15

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  bitcointrader70 Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:08 am

    COPE COPE COPE Russia is stagnating and declining. Everything that’s happened since 2008 has been Russia losing. Lost Libya. Had to step in to save Syria. Georgia was Russia’s only win.

    Most of you are foreigners on here and it’s easy to talk shit and say Russia will own this and that. But I am from Russia and life for poor and working class people in Russia sucks major ass and it’s not getting much better.
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9077
    Points : 9139
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:17 am

    bitcointrader70 wrote:COPE COPE COPE Russia is stagnating and declining. Everything that’s happened since 2008 has been Russia losing. Lost Libya. Had to step in to save Syria. Georgia was Russia’s only win.

    Most of you are foreigners on here and it’s easy to talk shit and say Russia will own this and that. But I am from Russia and life for poor and working class people in Russia sucks major ass and it’s not getting much better.  

    What would a bitcoin trader know about life for poor and working class people? Rolling Eyes

    That's part of the problem too actually. Too many of you clowns went and got degrees in economics or law instead of something useful, and now that there's a glut of you types in the country you can't find work and so become something useless like speculators and managers.

    And since you're obviously part of the philosophy that 'right makes might', and are willing to respect and admire whoever has the 'muscle' to turn a thriving North African state like Libya into a 3rd world garbage dumb - why don't you just piss off to Kiev now, to be among like-minded folk, rather than boring people with tedium here.

    GarryB, miketheterrible and Hole like this post

    avatar
    bitcointrader70


    Posts : 271
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2021-04-15

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  bitcointrader70 Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:31 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    bitcointrader70 wrote:COPE COPE COPE Russia is stagnating and declining. Everything that’s happened since 2008 has been Russia losing. Lost Libya. Had to step in to save Syria. Georgia was Russia’s only win.

    Most of you are foreigners on here and it’s easy to talk shit and say Russia will own this and that. But I am from Russia and life for poor and working class people in Russia sucks major ass and it’s not getting much better.  

    What would a bitcoin trader know about life for poor and working class people? Rolling Eyes

    That's part of the problem too actually. Too many of you clowns went and got degrees in economics or law instead of something useful, and now that there's a glut of you types in the country you can't find work and so become something useless like speculators and managers.

    And since you're obviously part of the philosophy that 'right makes might', and are willing to respect and admire whoever has the 'muscle' to turn a thriving North African state like Libya into a 3rd world garbage dumb - why don't you just piss off to Kiev now, to be among like-minded folk, rather than boring people with tedium here.
    I’m a working class person who learned technical analysis and correctly invested my money. Russia is a shit hole because putins kleptocracy does nothing but steal and steal and steal. It’s better than the 90s no doubt about that. But 70% of the money still ends up in some oligarchs bank account as opposed to 90% like the yeltsin days. If we could get that down to about 50% maybe we will get somewhere. You foreigners talk a big game but try being a poor person in Russia and praising Putin.

    Sponsored content


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue May 28, 2024 5:08 pm