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    Russia-EU relationship

    George1
    George1


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    Post  George1 Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:58 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Yes I know that, and to be honest - I was kinda surprised by Pieskow putting TR/RU relations higher.
    I would choose relations with Greece rather than Turkey at any moment.
    So maybe it is just a show, od carrot&stick tactics scratch

    i thiink a reason for that is the recent purchases fby Turkey of S-400. And some kind of cooperation between Russia and Turkey regarding Syria.
    But even if it is like this, i can assure you that Greece will always be 6 to 6,5 towards Russia and will never participate with its military (in a US/NATO context) in a hostile action against Russia. And that is because people of Greece are 100% against it. On the contrary Turkey can change mood at any time, they arent reliable

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:11 pm

    That is for sure, he just capitalized on some short-term goals.
    Maybe trying to push you a bit forward Wink

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:17 am

    I would choose relations with Greece rather than Turkey at any moment.
    So maybe it is just a show, od carrot&stick tactics

    Historically I think the Russians would choose better relations with Greece, but Greece is part of the EU and the EU is hostile to Russia and is not tolerant of dissent within its ranks.

    Turkey is part of HATO which is also hostile to Russia but Turkey is choosing relations with Russia where it suits Turkish interests and is able to ignore HATO a bit more because lets face it HATO needs Turkey to be its friend because of its location.

    It might be a case of pointing out that Greece could try harder, but Turkey is buying S-400s and is in talks with other cooperation too... what is Greece doing?

    It is not about competition... if Greece can't do any better then I doubt Russia will dump them for an exclusive relationship with Turkey, I rather suspect they want both relationships to get to 10.

    Maybe trying to push you a bit forward

    Or more likely in my opinion perhaps to get Greece to think about why this is and what is restraining Greece from having a better relationship with a country it does not and should not consider an enemy (Russia).

    Does Greece benefit from the Anti Russia BS from the EU and HATO, or is that getting in the way of trade a good relations with a lot of countries.

    Not many countries around the world would willingly hand over their foreign affairs to an unelected group who clearly don't give a shit about your interests or your situation.

    Perhaps it is time to make the EU less political and military and just make it about an economic grouping that gives lots of small countries more say in negotiations with neighbours.
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    Post  mnztr Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:34 am

    flamming_python wrote:Actually their language has been very extreme in that resolution

    It's not about just the fact of them not recognizing the Duma results

    They are de-facto calling for a full revolution in Russia or the sponsorship of a Syria-style rebellion

    Russia has no choice but to react to such belligerent threats, and with more than just some strongly-worded statements.

    The EU is incredibly mad that Putin got the stupid Brits to vote to leave. It was a psyops hall of famer that one. Then TRUMP OMG. Russia has fucked both the Brits US and EU quite nicely as a reward for their past misdeeds and actions in Ukraine. So expect them to be mad and nasty lol.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:55 am

    mnztr wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Actually their language has been very extreme in that resolution

    It's not about just the fact of them not recognizing the Duma results

    They are de-facto calling for a full revolution in Russia or the sponsorship of a Syria-style rebellion

    Russia has no choice but to react to such belligerent threats, and with more than just some strongly-worded statements.

    The EU is incredibly mad that Putin got the stupid Brits to vote to leave. It was a psyops hall of famer that one. Then TRUMP OMG. Russia has fucked both the Brits US and EU quite nicely as a reward for their past misdeeds and actions in Ukraine. So expect them to be mad and nasty lol.

    Putin had nothing to do with that

    The EU just can't admit their own failures

    Neither can the British elite who were as shocked by the results of that referendum as anyone else and basically all fell into silence for 2 days while a mix of pandemonium and euphoria reigned.
    After figuring out that they don't have a clue as to how make this no-EU thing actually work, the elites in Britain are now quietly trying to slip back towards EU integration again.

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:31 pm

    EU takes sanctions against PMC Wagner — source

    The main architect of sanctions against Mali and the PMC Wagner is France

    https://tass.com/world/1374675
    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:07 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Actually their language has been very extreme in that resolution

    It's not about just the fact of them not recognizing the Duma results

    They are de-facto calling for a full revolution in Russia or the sponsorship of a Syria-style rebellion

    Russia has no choice but to react to such belligerent threats, and with more than just some strongly-worded statements.

    The EU is incredibly mad that Putin got the stupid Brits to vote to leave. It was a psyops hall of famer that one. Then TRUMP OMG. Russia has fucked both the Brits US and EU quite nicely as a reward for their past misdeeds and actions in Ukraine. So expect them to be mad and nasty lol.

    Ridiculous. The rise in populist fervor had nothing to do with russian psyops but with shitty neocons and neolibs pushing countries in directions they do not want to go. I dont like Putin. Remember that journalist poisoned with polonium? Look into some of his final accusations right before he was poisoned. Putin is a monster like the rest. The difference is that he is a monster outside the games played by western monsters in power. I would rather have a world ruled by many than a world ruled over by western oligarchs. A western puppet in power within Russia would only mean even greater domination by the powerful western cliques.

    Here in America we had the russia nonsense. It was used to try and destroy Trump's presidency. They fucking weaponized the intelligence apparatus against him and many others. And these are the people screaming muh ruskies. Bullshit.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:11 pm

    George1 wrote:EU takes sanctions against PMC Wagner — source

    The main architect of sanctions against Mali and the PMC Wagner is France

    https://tass.com/world/1374675

    Now that is a huge joke if I ever read one.  It's like throwing shit at the wall hoping it will stick.

    This is just trying to punish Mali for brining in real help rather than the useless French. Mali may fold easily cause it relies on French money but sanctioning Wagner, with no real proof of its existence nor who actually runs it, is shooting blindly on Frances end. Mali is real target.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:15 pm

    TMA1 wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Actually their language has been very extreme in that resolution

    It's not about just the fact of them not recognizing the Duma results

    They are de-facto calling for a full revolution in Russia or the sponsorship of a Syria-style rebellion

    Russia has no choice but to react to such belligerent threats, and with more than just some strongly-worded statements.

    The EU is incredibly mad that Putin got the stupid Brits to vote to leave. It was a psyops hall of famer that one. Then TRUMP OMG. Russia has fucked both the Brits US and EU quite nicely as a reward for their past misdeeds and actions in Ukraine. So expect them to be mad and nasty lol.

    Ridiculous. The rise in populist fervor had nothing to do with russian psyops but with shitty neocons and neolibs pushing countries in directions they do not want to go. I dont like Putin. Remember that journalist poisoned with polonium? Look into some of his final accusations right before he was poisoned. Putin is a monster like the rest. The difference is that he is a monster outside the games played by western monsters in power. I would rather have a world ruled by many than a world ruled over by western oligarchs. A western puppet in power within Russia would only mean even greater domination by the powerful western cliques.

    Here in America we had the russia nonsense. It was used to try and destroy Trump's presidency. They fucking weaponized the intelligence apparatus against him and many others. And these are the people screaming muh ruskies. Bullshit.

    Litvinenko was a liar. So using him as an example shows your ignorance. Even his own family dropped him. He was spewing whatever in hopes the west would save his life so he, like Kasparov and khordokovsky all danced to their tune.

    Remember, these are same people who said putin had Maginsky killed. Then an anti putin movie director did a docu researching this event and found out Browder lied and he was more likely the reason Maginsky was killed. Hence why Browder tries to get the docu banned everywhere "the maginsky act".

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:45 am

    Litvinenko was former KGB counterintelligence. A lot of these spy agencies don't take kindly to traitors. Litvinenko was also one of the propagators of the lie that Putin was responsible for the Russian apartment bombings among others. He was a former KGB agent turned into Western asset. I would not be surprised if the Russian secret service offed him. The Israeli Mossad also does that sort of thing all the time.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:49 am

    lancelot wrote:Litvinenko was former KGB counterintelligence. A lot of these spy agencies don't take kindly to traitors. Litvinenko was also one of the propagators of the lie that Putin was responsible for the Russian apartment bombings among others. He was a former KGB agent turned into Western asset. I would not be surprised if the Russian secret service offed him. The Israeli Mossad also does that sort of thing all the time.

    They would not use Polonium to do it.   This includes leaving a physical trail back to Moscow.   This all by itself refutes the chance
    that Russian special services offed this loser.   Actually the loser was an indirect asset.   He claimed that Putin was behind the Danish
    Mohammad cartoon incident.   He also claimed to have a suit case full of evidence proving that Putin staged the August 1999 apartment
    bombings but never produced them.

    The whole August of 1999 apartment bombing story was a pathetic NATzO propaganda ploy attempting to paint the Russian
    restoration of order in Chechnya during the 1999/2000 winter and following spring as some invasion.   The NATzO fake stream
    media systematically omits the fact that the Wahabbi warlords who ran Chechnya after 1996 invaded Daghestan in the
    spring of 1999.   This attempt to expand their "caliphate" resulted in the death of about 700 people, mostly civilians.

    NATzO wants everyone to believe that the invasion of Daghestan was not a sufficient pretext and that Putin needed some
    false flag terror act.   BTW, Khattab, one of the imported Wahabbi warlords in Chechnya, threatened to stage such a terrorist
    act and appears to have claimed credit for it.   It is the US that needs to stage false flag incidents for pretexts to invade.
    The USS Maine, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, etc.   The use of the White Helmet terrorists in Syria to stage atrocities is
    part of this modus operandi.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:55 am

    Magnitksy was a corrupt accountant working for racketeer Browder who flouted Russian laws. In the US such criminals get very
    long prison sentences in Russia they are treated as plucky human rights heroes. The NATzO fake stream media routinely called
    Magnitsky as human rights lawyer. He was neither a lawyer nor any sort of human rights activists. He was offed on the orders
    of Browder because he had a high chance of singing and was a direct risk to the criminal. This is straight out of US pulp fiction
    detective stories and is a classical motive for murder. By contrast, the NATzO propaganda about Magnitsky being some victim of
    Putin is pure inanity. What frelling motive would Putin have to off some corrupt accountant? That is why this accountant was
    recast as a human rights lawyer and supposedly a threat to the "regime".

    Americans are such saps and so are all their EU sycophants.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:51 am

    The EU is incredibly mad that Putin got the stupid Brits to vote to leave.

    It was unelected officials in Brussels that made Brits want to leave the EU, it had nothing to do with Putin, but lets blame Putin for everything as usual.

    It was a psyops hall of famer that one.

    The real trick is that you think it was Putin... show me one meeting or interview where Putin told the UK whether to stay or leave... equally show me one quote where Putin tells the Germans or Americans or French or Italians who to vote for... the fact of the matter is that when asked he will always say it is up to the voters to decide and my opinion doesn't come in to it... which is what western politicians should do too but they never do... they always voice an opinion and it bites them in the ass. How many EU officials and leaders laughed at the idea of Trump getting elected and how they were looking forward to welcoming president Clinton when she won. And then they got all upset when Trump treated them like shit when he came over because he saw them calling him a joke... why should he treat them any different?

    Westerners have such short memories.

    Russia has fucked both the Brits US and EU quite nicely as a reward for their past misdeeds and actions in Ukraine. So expect them to be mad and nasty lol.

    Russia and Putin always get the blame but I think you will find the EU and US and UK fucked themselves... it is a definite pattern recently because they have no respect for anyone at all... not even supposed allies...

    Turkey cannot buy S-400s or they aren't in the club any more... boy... that worked out great...


    Neither can the British elite who were as shocked by the results of that referendum as anyone else and basically all fell into silence for 2 days while a mix of pandemonium and euphoria reigned.

    The BBC was so anti exit that I suspect it made the average joe want to vote for exit just to spite them.

    And of course there was a lot of problems with the dictatorial way the EU works that certainly needs reform, but I don't think the UK really thought things through properly and really didn't discuss all the issues and implications in a reasonable and rational way... essentially they had a fight and then picked a side... not a good way to run a country.

    The main architect of sanctions against Mali and the PMC Wagner is France

    No great surprise there, but will that make things harder for them or easier... this BS might just force Mali to tell France to just leave and never come back and put even more faith in Russia and any other country wanting to invest in their real development pitching in and sorting things out.

    I dont like Putin. Remember that journalist poisoned with polonium?


    Aww come on... Polonium is the worst possible weapon to use to kill someone... it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars per gram, and it is radioactive so anywhere it has been there will be an easy to track trail.... even if the victim is cremated you can detect polonium in the ashes and the concentrations will tell you it killed them, so it is the worst murder weapon in the world.

    When Putin kills.... like various Chechen rebels allowed to live freely in the west despite being actual terrorists, then he does not hide it... he does not deny that they were enemies that were eliminated for their crimes.

    The dickhead that died with the polonium was a nothing, just like the Skripals... he had served his time and was no longer of any interest to Russia... they could care less about either of them.

    On theory you will never hear from western media... Polonium is not just very very expensive... it is very very hard to get... sound familiar? Because the west made up the bullshit about Novachok for the same reason... only the Russians had some... except on closer examination the west had plenty of the stuff... so much so that they could identify it so quickly.

    Tell me... how do you identify something? Do you compare it with existing samples of things and when you get a match you know what it is...

    So you would need to have samples of novachok before you could say with any certainty something brought to you was Novachok right?

    The novachok poisonings both happened within 16km of Porton Down... the UK centre for spy poisons and germ warfare shit...

    But of course Putin did it... yeah right...

    Look into some of his final accusations right before he was poisoned. Putin is a monster like the rest.

    A political enemy of Putin who was probably making cash on the side smuggling polonium out of Russia because you can't just get it anywhere, accidentally contaminates himself... he knows what the stuff is and he knows he is dead... what is he going to say... damn I have killed myself being greedy and stealing from Russia like most enemies of Putin steal from Russia and Russians... or is he going to pretend it was an assassination attempt because he is so damn important...

    I would rather have a world ruled by many than a world ruled over by western oligarchs.

    The only two places where the rich don't control the government seem to be Russia and China.

    How ironic is that... you can tell because these two countries can say no to the US and the west and the rich multinational corporations.

    Here in America we had the russia nonsense

    Yup, it clearly seems to be working...

    It was used to try and destroy Trump's presidency. They fucking weaponized the intelligence apparatus against him and many others. And these are the people screaming muh ruskies. Bullshit.

    For most of his presidency it was... he isn't my president... we want a recount... impeach him.... he is putins puppet because obviously putin got him elected... and most amazing, there is no physical evidence so he got him elected by not doing anything.... Russian hackers... well after Hilary screwed bernie sanders supporters it does not take a genius to work out a bernie supporter likely leaked all that shit on Hilary to the press... there was no need for the hacker story except to change the narrative from hillary stealing the presidential candidate nomination from bernie to trump is putins puppet... we know which they went with and it is pretty obvious why...

    This is just trying to punish Mali for brining in real help rather than the useless French. Mali may fold easily cause it relies on French money but sanctioning Wagner, with no real proof of its existence nor who actually runs it, is shooting blindly on Frances end. Mali is real target

    Hopefully the Russian and perhaps Chinese government can come to their aide and help them make a clean break from France...

    And other victims of French colonialism can see light at the end of the tunnel... perhaps former colonies could also help work with these countries too?

    He was a former KGB agent turned into Western asset. I would not be surprised if the Russian secret service offed him.

    He likely used his former KGB connections to steal polonium and contaminated himself.

    If the Russians offed him for changing sides then there is a lot of work for them to do because that list is rather long.

    He also claimed to have a suit case full of evidence proving that Putin staged the August 1999 apartment
    bombings but never produced them.

    Yeah, not even when he knew he was a dead man... which suggests it never existed and he was a liar.

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    Post  mnztr Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:01 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The EU is incredibly mad that Putin got the stupid Brits to vote to leave.

    It was unelected officials in Brussels that made Brits want to leave the EU, it had nothing to do with Putin, but lets blame Putin for everything as usual.

    It was a psyops hall of famer that one.

    The real trick is that you think it was Putin... show me one meeting or interview where Putin told the UK whether to stay or leave... equally show me one quote where Putin tells the Germans or Americans or French or Italians who to vote for... the fact of the matter is that when asked he will always say it is up to the voters to decide and my opinion doesn't come in to it... which is what western politicians should do too but they never do... they always voice an opinion and it bites them in the ass. How many EU officials and leaders laughed at the idea of Trump getting elected and how they were looking forward to welcoming president Clinton when she won. And then they got all upset when Trump treated them like shit when he came over because he saw them calling him a joke... why should he treat them any different?

    Westerners have such short memories.

    Russia has fucked both the Brits US and EU quite nicely as a reward for their past misdeeds and actions in Ukraine. So expect them to be mad and nasty lol.

    Russia and Putin always get the blame but I think you will find the EU and US and UK fucked themselves... it is a definite pattern recently because they have no respect for anyone at all... not even supposed allies...

    Turkey cannot buy S-400s or they aren't in the club any more... boy... that worked out great...


    Neither can the British elite who were as shocked by the results of that referendum as anyone else and basically all fell into silence for 2 days while a mix of pandemonium and euphoria reigned.

    The BBC was so anti exit that I suspect it made the average joe want to vote for exit just to spite them.

    And of course there was a lot of problems with the dictatorial way the EU works that certainly needs reform, but I don't think the UK really thought things through properly and really didn't discuss all the issues and implications in a reasonable and rational way... essentially they had a fight and then picked a side... not a good way to run a country.

    The main architect of sanctions against Mali and the PMC Wagner is France

    No great surprise there, but will that make things harder for them or easier... this BS might just force Mali to tell France to just leave and never come back and put even more faith in Russia and any other country wanting to invest in their real development pitching in and sorting things out.

    I dont like Putin. Remember that journalist poisoned with polonium?


    Aww come on... Polonium is the worst possible weapon to use to kill someone... it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars per gram, and it is radioactive so anywhere it has been there will be an easy to track trail.... even if the victim is cremated you can detect polonium in the ashes and the concentrations will tell you it killed them, so it is the worst murder weapon in the world.

    When Putin kills.... like various Chechen rebels allowed to live freely in the west despite being actual terrorists, then he does not hide it... he does not deny that they were enemies that were eliminated for their crimes.

    The dickhead that died with the polonium was a nothing, just like the Skripals... he had served his time and was no longer of any interest to Russia... they could care less about either of them.

    On theory you will never hear from western media... Polonium is not just very very expensive... it is very very hard to get... sound familiar? Because the west made up the bullshit about Novachok for the same reason... only the Russians had some... except on closer examination the west had plenty of the stuff... so much so that they could identify it so quickly.

    Tell me... how do you identify something? Do you compare it with existing samples of things and when you get a match you know what it is...

    So you would need to have samples of novachok before you could say with any certainty something brought to you was Novachok right?

    The novachok poisonings both happened within 16km of Porton Down... the UK centre for spy poisons and germ warfare shit...

    But of course Putin did it... yeah right...

    Look into some of his final accusations right before he was poisoned. Putin is a monster like the rest.

    A political enemy of Putin who was probably making cash on the side smuggling polonium out of Russia because you can't just get it anywhere, accidentally contaminates himself... he knows what the stuff is and he knows he is dead... what is he going to say... damn I have killed myself being greedy and stealing from Russia like most enemies of Putin steal from Russia and Russians... or is he going to pretend it was an assassination attempt because he is so damn important...

    I would rather have a world ruled by many than a world ruled over by western oligarchs.

    The only two places where the rich don't control the government seem to be Russia and China.

    How ironic is that... you can tell because these two countries can say no to the US and the west and the rich multinational corporations.

    Here in America we had the russia nonsense

    Yup, it clearly seems to be working...

    It was used to try and destroy Trump's presidency. They fucking weaponized the intelligence apparatus against him and many others. And these are the people screaming muh ruskies. Bullshit.

    For most of his presidency it was... he isn't my president... we want a recount... impeach him.... he is putins puppet because obviously putin got him elected... and most amazing, there is no physical evidence so he got him elected by not doing anything.... Russian hackers... well after Hilary screwed bernie sanders supporters it does not take a genius to work out a bernie supporter likely leaked all that shit on Hilary to the press... there was no need for the hacker story except to change the narrative from hillary stealing the presidential candidate nomination from bernie to trump is putins puppet... we know which they went with and it is pretty obvious why...




    Oh come on, Putin is smart enought to distance himself from these things, he was a high level KGB operative for gods sake. That is the very top of the elite in that business.

    Russian hackers exposed US democracy for the sham that it is. As for Brexit, it was a close run thing, there was definitely attempts to influence things by Russia, and there was definitly attempts to save it in the UK. The murder of a pro brexit MP looks pretty suspicious. There was also the NRA money and some shady transactions with Russian oligarchs. Russia definitely wanted the UK out of the EU, so it can expand its cooperation with Germany and France.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:15 am

    Actually Polonium was until recently commercially available. It is a low grade alpha particle emitter so it was used for counteracting
    electrostatic charges (electrons) in photography and automobile painting. Somebody like Berezovsky could easily have bought
    enough of the stuff to add to Litvinenko's tea to kill him. BTW, Polonium is not really dangerous on the skin since the alpha particles
    are low energy and do not penetrate substantially into the body. By contrast, ingesting it is asking for radiation poisoning.

    Berezovsky and Khodorkovsky were in the habit of offing their opponents.

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    Post  PhSt Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:21 pm

    It seems Germany's sucking up to Uncle Scam is in overdrive lately  Rolling Eyes


    Germany expels Russian diplomats over state-ordered killing

    BERLIN (AP) — Germany’s foreign minister said Wednesday that her country is expelling two Russian diplomats after a court concluded that Moscow was behind the killing of a Chechen man in Berlin two years ago.

    Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock called the state-ordered killing a “grave breach of German law and the sovereignty of the Federal Republic of Germany.” Russia's ambassador in Berlin has been summoned to discuss the court's finding, Baerbock said.

    The 2019 brazen daylight killing of Zelimkhan “Tornike” Khangoshvili, a 40-year-old Georgian citizen of Chechen ethnicity, sparked outrage in Berlin and previously prompted the German government to expel two Russian diplomats — a move Russia swiftly reciprocated at the time.

    Judges at Berlin’s regional court convicted 56-year-old Vadim Krasikov of the killing, but said he had acted on the orders of Russian federal authorities, who provided him with a false identity, fake passport and the resources to carry out the hit on Aug. 23, 2019.

    “The central government of the Russian Federation was the author of this crime,” presiding judge Olaf Arnoldi said, labeling the killing “state terrorism.”

    Baerbock said she spoke Tuesday with her Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, and made clear that Germany wants an “open and honest exchange with Russia,” and that this should happen “on the basis of international law and mutual respect.”

    “It is clear that acts such as the...murder weigh heavily on this relationship,” she said. “The German government will do everything necessary to ensure that security in our country and the respect for our laws is ensured.”

    After Wednesday's verdict, Russia’s ambassador in Berlin issued a statement rejecting allegations of Russian involvement in the killing.

    “We consider the verdict an unobjective, politically motivated decision that seriously aggravates already complicated Russian-German relations,” Ambassador Sergei Nechayev said. Nechayev called the verdict “an unfriendly act that won’t go unanswered."

    “The absurd notion about Russia’s involvement in the wrongdoing during the entire course of the trial was being methodically imposed on the public, was being weaved into the general anti-Russian background, but wasn’t in the end proved with convincing evidence,” he said.

    During an oral summary of the court's findings that lasted almost two hours, Arnoldi said he and four fellow judges had reviewed a wealth of evidence during the 14-month trial, including 47 witness testimonies and material provided by a dozen countries, along with “very limited answers from the Russian Federation.”

    The court found Krasikov guilty of murder Wednesday and sentenced him to life imprisonment. Defense lawyers had asked the court to acquit their client, who claimed a case of mistaken identity.

    The judges said Krasikov bore “particularly grave responsibility” for the slaying, meaning he won’t be entitled to the automatic parole after 15 years that is customary in Germany.

    Tracing the biographies of Krasikov and Khangoshvili, Arnoldi said it was important to note the victim’s involvement in fighting against Russian forces in Chechnya from 2001 onward.

    In 2004, Khangoshvili led a group of fighters who carried out an attack on a police station in Russia, and civilians were killed along with officers.

    “There is no doubt that Khangoshvili bears responsibility for people’s deaths,” the judge said, adding later that Russian authorities had likely sought “revenge and retribution” for his actions. Asked about the case at a news conference in December 2019, Russian President Vladimir Putin described the victim as a “terrorist and murderer.”

    Khangoshvili’s family, which under German law was allowed to take part in the trial as co-plaintiffs, accused Russia last week of trying to “send a message” to its political enemies by killing him.

    Khangoshvili survived an earlier assassination attempt in Georgia before moving to Ukraine and then to Berlin in 2016, where he applied for asylum, the judge said.

    German authorities denied Khangoshvili’s asylum request, and an appeal was rejected in 2018 on the grounds that he didn’t face political persecution in his home country.

    “This later proved to be obviously wrong,” Arnoldi said, adding there was no evidence that Khangoshvili was politically active in Germany or continued to pursue extremist ideas.

    The German judges said that overwhelming evidence reviewed over the course of dozens of hearings left no doubt that Krasikov had carried out the killing just a few hundred meters from the courthouse.

    Krasikov — a twice-married father of three — had no previous convictions, Arnoldi said, but official records showed he had been sought by Russian authorities over the killing of a businessman in Moscow in 2013. The case was dropped in 2015.

    Evidence reviewed by the court, including material unearthed by the investigative news site Bellingcat, showed that Krasikov had been employed by a Russian security agency and was likely asked to carry out the hit in 2019, Arnoldi said.

    A month before the killing, Russian authorities issued Krasikov with a fake passport under the alias Vadim Sokolov that he used to travel to Berlin, where he shot the victim repeatedly from behind with a silencer-fitted handgun near the Kleiner Tiergarten park.

    Witnesses saw the suspect throw a bike, a gun and a wig in the Spree River near the scene and alerted police, who quickly arrested him before he could make off on an electric scooter parked in a doorway.

    The court concluded that the killing wouldn’t have been possible without unidentified helpers in Berlin, that Moscow had a motive for targeting the victim, and that Russian law permits the killing of alleged terrorists, including abroad if authorized by the president.

    “If a business card belonging to a member of the Russian federal government had been found at the scene of the crime, it couldn’t have been more damning,” Arnoldi said.

    The ruling, which can be appealed, could stoke new tensions between Germany and Russia at a time when the new government of Chancellor Olaf Scholz is trying to find its foreign policy footing with Moscow.

    A year after the killing, German-Russian relations suffered another blow when then-Chancellor Angela Merkel intervened to fly poisoned Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny to Berlin for medical treatment. Navalny says he was poisoned by Russian agents, which Moscow denies. After returning to his home country, Navalny was sentenced to 2 1/2 years in prison for violating the terms of his probation while convalescing in Germany.

    Baerbock, who became Germany's foreign minister a wek ago, has called for a tougher stance toward Russia, especially over its military buildup near Ukraine. But Scholz has called for “Ostpolitik” — or policy toward the east — of the kind that his Social Democratic predecessor as chancellor, Willy Brandt, pursued during the Cold War.

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/russian-convicted-of-killing-that-posed-diplomatic-issues/ar-AARPM3h
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    Post  Hole Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:07 pm

    If a russian court would state such a shit the west would explode.

    The guy killed was a terrorist. It´s a disgrace that he was allowed to walk freely instead of sitting in jail. But... He was our terrorist, just like Amiri, who drove a truck into a christmas market. He wa supposed to do it in Syria but instead opted to stay in Germany and do it here.

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    Post  kvs Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:07 pm

    Wow, German courts think Bellingcat provides "evidence". Germany is a joke.

    Any Russian hit that is a Keystone cops operation is a fraud perpetrated by NATzO. Like the Polonium trail back to Moscow.
    As if Russia has no scientific and engineering capability. For example, the Polonium could have been encased in soluble particles
    that could be added to sugar or to the drink directly. Anyone using such a vector would not be leaving a trail of evidence for
    NATzO "sleuths" to find. Polonium does not produce secondary radiation. For example from high energy gamma rays or beta
    particles. All it produces is low energy alpha (Helium nucleus) ions.

    A hit on a terrorist would not involve the agent being arrested because German police are God-like in their skillz. NATzO passes
    off gangster shootouts as Putin's intrigues. The mafia can provide fake identity documents and passports as well. These clowns
    make it sound like only Russia could have pulled off such a "feat".

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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:24 pm

    Meh, who cares. Russia will just expel two German diplomats or more.  This bitch may not even be foreign Minister for long.

    She probably knows this too so she is trying to cause as much damage between Germany and Russia as she can, since the new jackass in charge wants to improve relations with Russia. Lol

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    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:31 am

    Oh come on, Putin is smart enought to distance himself from these things, he was a high level KGB operative for gods sake.

    He is smart enough to not bother murdering either of these losers in the first place. Neither was any threat to him or to Russia... they only became relevant when the western media created conspiracy theories about Putin wanting them dead... and who cares about that... how many US officials publicly stated they wanted Julian Assange murdered? Were they fired? Did the west call for them to be put in jail or even fired?

    Russian hackers exposed US democracy for the sham that it is.

    What hackers? The Clintons never handed over their computers for investigation so no evidence or proof is even possible, because they knew it wasn't hackers, it was disgruntled bernie supporters who likely used a USB memory stick to transfer the files... no need to hack anything at all.

    As for Brexit, it was a close run thing, there was definitely attempts to influence things by Russia, and there was definitly attempts to save it in the UK.

    Well if there was definitely attempts to influence British voters then you should have no problems posting that evidence here... if Putin or Russia had expressed any opinion either way the BBC would have pounced on it as interference... but they have said nothing... just suggestion and innuendo... the usual western BS propaganda... we would do it to them so we believe they would likely be doing it to us... which does not stand up in any court of law...

    The murder of a pro brexit MP looks pretty suspicious.

    What? Do you think murdering the opposition even makes sense? If you get caught then you end up doing the opposite of what you want... creating sympathy and support for your opponents... and for what... who gives a **** about the UK and the EU, they both want to be an enemy of Russia... whether together or apart it makes no difference.

    The only real difference is that the loss of the EU market will force the UK re-establish ties with its old commonwealth, so it will spread its anti Russia poison to its former colonies... not that Canada or Australia needs that right now...

    There was also the NRA money and some shady transactions with Russian oligarchs.

    Yeah, you do understand that Russia oligarchs in the UK are anti Putin... that is why they live in the UK. In fact Teresa May said she was going to attack Putin by cracking down on Russian oligarchs in Britain and he actually said to go right ahead. I seem to remember that directly as part of her actions against them a few moved back to Russia with their money, which Putin described as a win for Russia.

    Russia definitely wanted the UK out of the EU, so it can expand its cooperation with Germany and France.

    What cooperation with Germany and France? The EU is as anti Russia as it has ever been... the UK leaving has made little difference at all and was never likely to make much of a change.

    Krasikov — a twice-married father of three — had no previous convictions, Arnoldi said, but official records showed he had been sought by Russian authorities over the killing of a businessman in Moscow in 2013. The case was dropped in 2015

    Sounds like a hitman. I am sure there would be a few people in Russia who would want a terrorist who killed police and civilians in a terrorist attack killed.


    Evidence reviewed by the court, including material unearthed by the investigative news site Bellingcat,

    Hahahaha... so the evidence was made up...

    A month before the killing, Russian authorities issued Krasikov with a fake passport under the alias Vadim Sokolov

    If the Russian authorities issued the passport then it is not fake. But how would they know how someone got a fake passport?

    The court concluded that the killing wouldn’t have been possible without unidentified helpers in Berlin, that Moscow had a motive for targeting the victim, and that Russian law permits the killing of alleged terrorists, including abroad if authorized by the president.

    Russian law does not apply in Germany so technically Russian law permits any criminal act outside Russian borders...

    “If a business card belonging to a member of the Russian federal government had been found at the scene of the crime, it couldn’t have been more damning,” Arnoldi said.

    If making up evidence was an art form then you would be Picasso Mr Arnoldi.

    If the only link to Putin is evidence from Bellingcat then there is no link.

    Meh, who cares. Russia will just expel two German diplomats or more.

    Got it in one, though I would expel four German Diplomats because they can... if they want to play political grand standing games like this in the media then lets double the punishment for starting such games.

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:35 am

    I have told you, this whole Die Gruene is a 5th column settled to trouble Germany.
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    Post  Hole Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:42 pm

    The killer had a bike and a weapon. Sure, you can´t get something like that in a city like Berlin without professional (state) help. Embarassed Rolling Eyes

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    Post  TMA1 Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:19 pm

    kvs wrote:
    lancelot wrote:Litvinenko was former KGB counterintelligence. A lot of these spy agencies don't take kindly to traitors. Litvinenko was also one of the propagators of the lie that Putin was responsible for the Russian apartment bombings among others. He was a former KGB agent turned into Western asset. I would not be surprised if the Russian secret service offed him. The Israeli Mossad also does that sort of thing all the time.

    They would not use Polonium to do it.   This includes leaving a physical trail back to Moscow.   This all by itself refutes the chance
    that Russian special services offed this loser.   Actually the loser was an indirect asset.   He claimed that Putin was behind the Danish
    Mohammad cartoon incident.   He also claimed to have a suit case full of evidence proving that Putin staged the August 1999 apartment
    bombings but never produced them.

    The whole August of 1999 apartment bombing story was a pathetic NATzO propaganda ploy attempting to paint the Russian
    restoration of order in Chechnya during the 1999/2000 winter and following spring as some invasion.   The NATzO fake stream
    media systematically omits the fact that the Wahabbi warlords who ran Chechnya after 1996 invaded Daghestan in the
    spring of 1999.   This attempt to expand their "caliphate" resulted in the death of about 700 people, mostly civilians.

    NATzO wants everyone to believe that the invasion of Daghestan was not a sufficient pretext and that Putin needed some
    false flag terror act.   BTW, Khattab, one of the imported Wahabbi warlords in Chechnya, threatened to stage such a terrorist
    act and appears to have claimed credit for it.   It is the US that needs to stage false flag incidents for pretexts to invade.
    The USS Maine, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, etc.   The use of the White Helmet terrorists in Syria to stage atrocities is
    part of this modus operandi.

    Interesting. Had not heard about some of this. Still dont trust Putin, but I'm going to have to look into this.
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    Post  kvs Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:09 pm

    Putin has proven his loyalty to Russia and Russians. He has also proven that he is competent in economics and this together
    with securing Russia from external influence, which was established in the 1990s under Yeltsin, has lead to a dramatic rise in
    the standard of living.

    As Epstein rape island frequent guest Bill Clinton put it: it's the economy, stupid. NATzO hate propaganda pushes the narrative
    that Putin is afraid to lose power and must off opponents to keep his "tyranny" running. Why would he need to off anyone to
    stay in power? NATzO fake stream media consumer sheep are absurdly credulous. Real tyrants off opponents by the tens of
    thousands. This was apparent in Latin America and around the world since the dawn of organized states. So where are all
    of these thousands and thousands of victims of Putin?

    A persistent gap in the NATzO hate propaganda is the lack of actual motive. As we see with Litvinenko, Politkovskaya and any
    of the handful of other tinfoil hat "victims" of Putin. It is obvious that NATzO is running a demonization campaign, investing
    hate into Putin as a proxy for Russia and Russians.

    So when it comes to trust, none of the NATzO deep state marionettes who people think that they have voted into office can
    be trusted. They have proven that they are enemies of their own people. NATzO is transforming into a large totalitarian toilet
    and has no moral or legal authority to lecture and threaten anyone, especially not Russia.

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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:30 pm

    To break it down simply - the idea that Russia would use a slow acting agent to kill someone to prevent them talking, should be a clue to the intelligence of someone if they believe it or not.

    Would they rather:
    1) shoot someone with a silencer to silence a person, guaranteeing they are dead on the spot to prevent them from talking

    Or

    2) poison them with something that will take months/years to kill them to prevent them from talking?

    We are talking about an intelligence agency that has experience since forever in effectively offing someone with as far as an ice pick to side of the head. Why would they risk killing someone with a slow acting agent? It's like the Skripal case (where are they anyway?) And the Navalny poisoning scam. It was a very bad lie from the west that was called out and most didn't believe it.

    The burden of proof is those making the claims. Litvinenko, Browder, Khordokovsky, etc all provided nothing. Instead, they rely on BS nonsense from Bellingcat that relies on photoshopping evidence and making wild accusations with fake passport shit. None holds water of course in any court. Yet, when things are looked into, we find out that Browder is a lying ass who not only ruined many Russian lives with his bad investments and theft, he is more than likely the real culprit behind Magninsky's death. Navalny? He lied about how he got sick ane was partying with NATO fucks and blatantly showing it which got him arrested anyway. Make matters worst, so much shit came out about him and his organization which resulted in half of his team denouncing him to save face and other half fleeing the country. Now that his assets stripped and his HQ raided. Who knows what else came out. But apparently a lot for him to be behind bars for long time.

    A lot of claims, no evidence. Does Russia assistance high profile enemies? Probably. No doubt they do.

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