Russia-EU relationship

I would choose relations with Greece rather than Turkey at any moment.
So maybe it is just a show, od carrot&stick tactics

Maybe trying to push you a bit forward

flamming_python wrote:Actually their language has been very extreme in that resolution

It's not about just the fact of them not recognizing the Duma results

They are de-facto calling for a full revolution in Russia or the sponsorship of a Syria-style rebellion

Russia has no choice but to react to such belligerent threats, and with more than just some strongly-worded statements.

mnztr wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Actually their language has been very extreme in that resolution

It's not about just the fact of them not recognizing the Duma results

They are de-facto calling for a full revolution in Russia or the sponsorship of a Syria-style rebellion

Russia has no choice but to react to such belligerent threats, and with more than just some strongly-worded statements.

The EU is incredibly mad that Putin got the stupid Brits to vote to leave. It was a psyops hall of famer that one. Then TRUMP OMG. Russia has fucked both the Brits US and EU quite nicely as a reward for their past misdeeds and actions in Ukraine. So expect them to be mad and nasty lol.

George1 wrote:EU takes sanctions against PMC Wagner — source

The main architect of sanctions against Mali and the PMC Wagner is France

https://tass.com/world/1374675

TMA1 wrote:

mnztr wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Actually their language has been very extreme in that resolution

It's not about just the fact of them not recognizing the Duma results

They are de-facto calling for a full revolution in Russia or the sponsorship of a Syria-style rebellion

Russia has no choice but to react to such belligerent threats, and with more than just some strongly-worded statements.

The EU is incredibly mad that Putin got the stupid Brits to vote to leave. It was a psyops hall of famer that one. Then TRUMP OMG. Russia has fucked both the Brits US and EU quite nicely as a reward for their past misdeeds and actions in Ukraine. So expect them to be mad and nasty lol.

Ridiculous. The rise in populist fervor had nothing to do with russian psyops but with shitty neocons and neolibs pushing countries in directions they do not want to go. I dont like Putin. Remember that journalist poisoned with polonium? Look into some of his final accusations right before he was poisoned. Putin is a monster like the rest. The difference is that he is a monster outside the games played by western monsters in power. I would rather have a world ruled by many than a world ruled over by western oligarchs. A western puppet in power within Russia would only mean even greater domination by the powerful western cliques.

Here in America we had the russia nonsense. It was used to try and destroy Trump's presidency. They fucking weaponized the intelligence apparatus against him and many others. And these are the people screaming muh ruskies. Bullshit.

lancelot wrote:Litvinenko was former KGB counterintelligence. A lot of these spy agencies don't take kindly to traitors. Litvinenko was also one of the propagators of the lie that Putin was responsible for the Russian apartment bombings among others. He was a former KGB agent turned into Western asset. I would not be surprised if the Russian secret service offed him. The Israeli Mossad also does that sort of thing all the time.

The EU is incredibly mad that Putin got the stupid Brits to vote to leave.

It was a psyops hall of famer that one.

Russia has fucked both the Brits US and EU quite nicely as a reward for their past misdeeds and actions in Ukraine. So expect them to be mad and nasty lol.

Neither can the British elite who were as shocked by the results of that referendum as anyone else and basically all fell into silence for 2 days while a mix of pandemonium and euphoria reigned.

The main architect of sanctions against Mali and the PMC Wagner is France

I dont like Putin. Remember that journalist poisoned with polonium?

Look into some of his final accusations right before he was poisoned. Putin is a monster like the rest.

I would rather have a world ruled by many than a world ruled over by western oligarchs.

Here in America we had the russia nonsense

It was used to try and destroy Trump's presidency. They fucking weaponized the intelligence apparatus against him and many others. And these are the people screaming muh ruskies. Bullshit.

This is just trying to punish Mali for brining in real help rather than the useless French. Mali may fold easily cause it relies on French money but sanctioning Wagner, with no real proof of its existence nor who actually runs it, is shooting blindly on Frances end. Mali is real target

He was a former KGB agent turned into Western asset. I would not be surprised if the Russian secret service offed him.

He also claimed to have a suit case full of evidence proving that Putin staged the August 1999 apartment
bombings but never produced them.

GarryB wrote:

The EU is incredibly mad that Putin got the stupid Brits to vote to leave.

It was unelected officials in Brussels that made Brits want to leave the EU, it had nothing to do with Putin, but lets blame Putin for everything as usual.

It was a psyops hall of famer that one.

The real trick is that you think it was Putin... show me one meeting or interview where Putin told the UK whether to stay or leave... equally show me one quote where Putin tells the Germans or Americans or French or Italians who to vote for... the fact of the matter is that when asked he will always say it is up to the voters to decide and my opinion doesn't come in to it... which is what western politicians should do too but they never do... they always voice an opinion and it bites them in the ass. How many EU officials and leaders laughed at the idea of Trump getting elected and how they were looking forward to welcoming president Clinton when she won. And then they got all upset when Trump treated them like shit when he came over because he saw them calling him a joke... why should he treat them any different?

Westerners have such short memories.

Russia has fucked both the Brits US and EU quite nicely as a reward for their past misdeeds and actions in Ukraine. So expect them to be mad and nasty lol.

Russia and Putin always get the blame but I think you will find the EU and US and UK fucked themselves... it is a definite pattern recently because they have no respect for anyone at all... not even supposed allies...

Turkey cannot buy S-400s or they aren't in the club any more... boy... that worked out great...

Neither can the British elite who were as shocked by the results of that referendum as anyone else and basically all fell into silence for 2 days while a mix of pandemonium and euphoria reigned.

The BBC was so anti exit that I suspect it made the average joe want to vote for exit just to spite them.

And of course there was a lot of problems with the dictatorial way the EU works that certainly needs reform, but I don't think the UK really thought things through properly and really didn't discuss all the issues and implications in a reasonable and rational way... essentially they had a fight and then picked a side... not a good way to run a country.

The main architect of sanctions against Mali and the PMC Wagner is France

No great surprise there, but will that make things harder for them or easier... this BS might just force Mali to tell France to just leave and never come back and put even more faith in Russia and any other country wanting to invest in their real development pitching in and sorting things out.

I dont like Putin. Remember that journalist poisoned with polonium?

Aww come on... Polonium is the worst possible weapon to use to kill someone... it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars per gram, and it is radioactive so anywhere it has been there will be an easy to track trail.... even if the victim is cremated you can detect polonium in the ashes and the concentrations will tell you it killed them, so it is the worst murder weapon in the world.

When Putin kills.... like various Chechen rebels allowed to live freely in the west despite being actual terrorists, then he does not hide it... he does not deny that they were enemies that were eliminated for their crimes.

The dickhead that died with the polonium was a nothing, just like the Skripals... he had served his time and was no longer of any interest to Russia... they could care less about either of them.

On theory you will never hear from western media... Polonium is not just very very expensive... it is very very hard to get... sound familiar? Because the west made up the bullshit about Novachok for the same reason... only the Russians had some... except on closer examination the west had plenty of the stuff... so much so that they could identify it so quickly.

Tell me... how do you identify something? Do you compare it with existing samples of things and when you get a match you know what it is...

So you would need to have samples of novachok before you could say with any certainty something brought to you was Novachok right?

The novachok poisonings both happened within 16km of Porton Down... the UK centre for spy poisons and germ warfare shit...

But of course Putin did it... yeah right...

Look into some of his final accusations right before he was poisoned. Putin is a monster like the rest.

A political enemy of Putin who was probably making cash on the side smuggling polonium out of Russia because you can't just get it anywhere, accidentally contaminates himself... he knows what the stuff is and he knows he is dead... what is he going to say... damn I have killed myself being greedy and stealing from Russia like most enemies of Putin steal from Russia and Russians... or is he going to pretend it was an assassination attempt because he is so damn important...

I would rather have a world ruled by many than a world ruled over by western oligarchs.

The only two places where the rich don't control the government seem to be Russia and China.

How ironic is that... you can tell because these two countries can say no to the US and the west and the rich multinational corporations.

Here in America we had the russia nonsense

Yup, it clearly seems to be working...

It was used to try and destroy Trump's presidency. They fucking weaponized the intelligence apparatus against him and many others. And these are the people screaming muh ruskies. Bullshit.

For most of his presidency it was... he isn't my president... we want a recount... impeach him.... he is putins puppet because obviously putin got him elected... and most amazing, there is no physical evidence so he got him elected by not doing anything.... Russian hackers... well after Hilary screwed bernie sanders supporters it does not take a genius to work out a bernie supporter likely leaked all that shit on Hilary to the press... there was no need for the hacker story except to change the narrative from hillary stealing the presidential candidate nomination from bernie to trump is putins puppet... we know which they went with and it is pretty obvious why...

Germany expels Russian diplomats over state-ordered killing

BERLIN (AP) — Germany’s foreign minister said Wednesday that her country is expelling two Russian diplomats after a court concluded that Moscow was behind the killing of a Chechen man in Berlin two years ago.

Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock called the state-ordered killing a “grave breach of German law and the sovereignty of the Federal Republic of Germany.” Russia's ambassador in Berlin has been summoned to discuss the court's finding, Baerbock said.

The 2019 brazen daylight killing of Zelimkhan “Tornike” Khangoshvili, a 40-year-old Georgian citizen of Chechen ethnicity, sparked outrage in Berlin and previously prompted the German government to expel two Russian diplomats — a move Russia swiftly reciprocated at the time.

Judges at Berlin’s regional court convicted 56-year-old Vadim Krasikov of the killing, but said he had acted on the orders of Russian federal authorities, who provided him with a false identity, fake passport and the resources to carry out the hit on Aug. 23, 2019.

“The central government of the Russian Federation was the author of this crime,” presiding judge Olaf Arnoldi said, labeling the killing “state terrorism.”

Baerbock said she spoke Tuesday with her Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, and made clear that Germany wants an “open and honest exchange with Russia,” and that this should happen “on the basis of international law and mutual respect.”

“It is clear that acts such as the...murder weigh heavily on this relationship,” she said. “The German government will do everything necessary to ensure that security in our country and the respect for our laws is ensured.”

After Wednesday's verdict, Russia’s ambassador in Berlin issued a statement rejecting allegations of Russian involvement in the killing.

“We consider the verdict an unobjective, politically motivated decision that seriously aggravates already complicated Russian-German relations,” Ambassador Sergei Nechayev said. Nechayev called the verdict “an unfriendly act that won’t go unanswered."

“The absurd notion about Russia’s involvement in the wrongdoing during the entire course of the trial was being methodically imposed on the public, was being weaved into the general anti-Russian background, but wasn’t in the end proved with convincing evidence,” he said.

During an oral summary of the court's findings that lasted almost two hours, Arnoldi said he and four fellow judges had reviewed a wealth of evidence during the 14-month trial, including 47 witness testimonies and material provided by a dozen countries, along with “very limited answers from the Russian Federation.”

The court found Krasikov guilty of murder Wednesday and sentenced him to life imprisonment. Defense lawyers had asked the court to acquit their client, who claimed a case of mistaken identity.

The judges said Krasikov bore “particularly grave responsibility” for the slaying, meaning he won’t be entitled to the automatic parole after 15 years that is customary in Germany.

Tracing the biographies of Krasikov and Khangoshvili, Arnoldi said it was important to note the victim’s involvement in fighting against Russian forces in Chechnya from 2001 onward.

In 2004, Khangoshvili led a group of fighters who carried out an attack on a police station in Russia, and civilians were killed along with officers.

“There is no doubt that Khangoshvili bears responsibility for people’s deaths,” the judge said, adding later that Russian authorities had likely sought “revenge and retribution” for his actions. Asked about the case at a news conference in December 2019, Russian President Vladimir Putin described the victim as a “terrorist and murderer.”

Khangoshvili’s family, which under German law was allowed to take part in the trial as co-plaintiffs, accused Russia last week of trying to “send a message” to its political enemies by killing him.

Khangoshvili survived an earlier assassination attempt in Georgia before moving to Ukraine and then to Berlin in 2016, where he applied for asylum, the judge said.

German authorities denied Khangoshvili’s asylum request, and an appeal was rejected in 2018 on the grounds that he didn’t face political persecution in his home country.

“This later proved to be obviously wrong,” Arnoldi said, adding there was no evidence that Khangoshvili was politically active in Germany or continued to pursue extremist ideas.

The German judges said that overwhelming evidence reviewed over the course of dozens of hearings left no doubt that Krasikov had carried out the killing just a few hundred meters from the courthouse.

Krasikov — a twice-married father of three — had no previous convictions, Arnoldi said, but official records showed he had been sought by Russian authorities over the killing of a businessman in Moscow in 2013. The case was dropped in 2015.

Evidence reviewed by the court, including material unearthed by the investigative news site Bellingcat, showed that Krasikov had been employed by a Russian security agency and was likely asked to carry out the hit in 2019, Arnoldi said.

A month before the killing, Russian authorities issued Krasikov with a fake passport under the alias Vadim Sokolov that he used to travel to Berlin, where he shot the victim repeatedly from behind with a silencer-fitted handgun near the Kleiner Tiergarten park.

Witnesses saw the suspect throw a bike, a gun and a wig in the Spree River near the scene and alerted police, who quickly arrested him before he could make off on an electric scooter parked in a doorway.

The court concluded that the killing wouldn’t have been possible without unidentified helpers in Berlin, that Moscow had a motive for targeting the victim, and that Russian law permits the killing of alleged terrorists, including abroad if authorized by the president.

“If a business card belonging to a member of the Russian federal government had been found at the scene of the crime, it couldn’t have been more damning,” Arnoldi said.

The ruling, which can be appealed, could stoke new tensions between Germany and Russia at a time when the new government of Chancellor Olaf Scholz is trying to find its foreign policy footing with Moscow.

A year after the killing, German-Russian relations suffered another blow when then-Chancellor Angela Merkel intervened to fly poisoned Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny to Berlin for medical treatment. Navalny says he was poisoned by Russian agents, which Moscow denies. After returning to his home country, Navalny was sentenced to 2 1/2 years in prison for violating the terms of his probation while convalescing in Germany.

Baerbock, who became Germany's foreign minister a wek ago, has called for a tougher stance toward Russia, especially over its military buildup near Ukraine. But Scholz has called for “Ostpolitik” — or policy toward the east — of the kind that his Social Democratic predecessor as chancellor, Willy Brandt, pursued during the Cold War.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/russian-convicted-of-killing-that-posed-diplomatic-issues/ar-AARPM3h

Oh come on, Putin is smart enought to distance himself from these things, he was a high level KGB operative for gods sake.

Russian hackers exposed US democracy for the sham that it is.

As for Brexit, it was a close run thing, there was definitely attempts to influence things by Russia, and there was definitly attempts to save it in the UK.

The murder of a pro brexit MP looks pretty suspicious.

There was also the NRA money and some shady transactions with Russian oligarchs.

Russia definitely wanted the UK out of the EU, so it can expand its cooperation with Germany and France.

Krasikov — a twice-married father of three — had no previous convictions, Arnoldi said, but official records showed he had been sought by Russian authorities over the killing of a businessman in Moscow in 2013. The case was dropped in 2015

Evidence reviewed by the court, including material unearthed by the investigative news site Bellingcat,

A month before the killing, Russian authorities issued Krasikov with a fake passport under the alias Vadim Sokolov

The court concluded that the killing wouldn’t have been possible without unidentified helpers in Berlin, that Moscow had a motive for targeting the victim, and that Russian law permits the killing of alleged terrorists, including abroad if authorized by the president.

“If a business card belonging to a member of the Russian federal government had been found at the scene of the crime, it couldn’t have been more damning,” Arnoldi said.

Meh, who cares. Russia will just expel two German diplomats or more.

kvs wrote:

lancelot wrote:Litvinenko was former KGB counterintelligence. A lot of these spy agencies don't take kindly to traitors. Litvinenko was also one of the propagators of the lie that Putin was responsible for the Russian apartment bombings among others. He was a former KGB agent turned into Western asset. I would not be surprised if the Russian secret service offed him. The Israeli Mossad also does that sort of thing all the time.

They would not use Polonium to do it.   This includes leaving a physical trail back to Moscow.   This all by itself refutes the chance
that Russian special services offed this loser.   Actually the loser was an indirect asset.   He claimed that Putin was behind the Danish
Mohammad cartoon incident.   He also claimed to have a suit case full of evidence proving that Putin staged the August 1999 apartment
bombings but never produced them.

The whole August of 1999 apartment bombing story was a pathetic NATzO propaganda ploy attempting to paint the Russian
restoration of order in Chechnya during the 1999/2000 winter and following spring as some invasion.   The NATzO fake stream
media systematically omits the fact that the Wahabbi warlords who ran Chechnya after 1996 invaded Daghestan in the
spring of 1999.   This attempt to expand their "caliphate" resulted in the death of about 700 people, mostly civilians.

NATzO wants everyone to believe that the invasion of Daghestan was not a sufficient pretext and that Putin needed some
false flag terror act.   BTW, Khattab, one of the imported Wahabbi warlords in Chechnya, threatened to stage such a terrorist
act and appears to have claimed credit for it.   It is the US that needs to stage false flag incidents for pretexts to invade.
The USS Maine, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, etc.   The use of the White Helmet terrorists in Syria to stage atrocities is
part of this modus operandi.