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    Tu-22M3: News

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:41 pm

    If it can hit an aegis ship it can hit a carrier.

    Both are stop gap solutions until real hypersonic missiles comes in. Kh-32 is an improved kh-22 and kinzhal is just an iskander with software changes to hit ships.

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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr on Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:13 pm

    Kinzhals range and speed are highly dependant on the launch platform. The MIG-31 imparts so much altitude and energy on the missile, it could probably travel over 150 km even if the engine did not light. Rocket engine can be also optimized to operate at MACH 2 plus as it does not have to handle static launch and climb out. Much slower burn rate, less thrust and high exhaust velocity.
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    Post  Hole on Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:37 pm

    Isos wrote:If it can hit an aegis ship it can hit a carrier.

    Both are stop gap solutions until real hypersonic missiles comes in. Kh-32 is an improved kh-22 and kinzhal is just an iskander with software changes to hit ships.

    But the AEGIs ship is helpless against a Kinzhal and the Kh-32 has a heavier warhead.
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    Post  kvs on Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:58 pm

    Missile systems are not instantly retired if new systems with "better" parameters come out.

    We really do not know the characteristics of the Kh-32. It could be more maneuverable than the Kinzhal since the latter is a hypersonic system
    which limits its maneuverability to some extent. The faster you fly the more inertia you have.

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    Post  Singular_Transform on Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:31 pm

    kvs wrote:Missile systems are not instantly retired if new systems with "better" parameters come out.  

    We really do not know the characteristics of the Kh-32.   It could be more maneuverable than the Kinzhal since the latter is a hypersonic system
    which limits its maneuverability to some extent.    The faster you fly the more inertia you have.


    Double the speed and the turning radius will be four times bigger for the same g value.
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    Post  mnztr on Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:49 am

    Hole wrote:

    But the AEGIs ship is helpless against a Kinzhal and the Kh-32 has a heavier warhead.


    I would never say helpless. They have some pretty capable ships, but its unlikely they can defend against these missiles with their current defensive systems
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:58 am

    Essentially Zircon will replace Onyx eventually, that is its place.

    The Kh-32 is replacing the Kh-22M, but its liquid fuels are highly toxic and not popular so an air launched version of Zircon could be a fairly obvious replacement for Kh-32.

    The Kh-32 is a natural evolution of an older system that externally looks the same... the difference is better liquid rocket motors and improved energy fuel.

    The Kinzhal is an air launched version of the ground launched Iskander solid fuelled rocket and is a quick fix stopgap solution.

    Zircon has the most potential as it will be the lightest of all these weapons, but also the fastest and probably ultimately the cheapest, because its scoops up oxygen as it moves through the air like other jet powered objects.

    The solid rocket and liquid rocket models need to carry their own oxygen with them which quadruples the weight of "fuel".

    Zircon will fit into all land based and ship and sub based UKSK launch tubes, and likely will be adapted to be carried by their strategic bombers and the Backfire as well and perhaps a smaller model for lighter aircraft like the Su-34 and Su-35/30.

    Being jet powered it can throttle up or down to use fuel much more efficiently, so being launched from very high altitude and very high speed wont impact its performance as much as the same would with a solid rocket motor powered missile.

    They will likely continue to use all three weapons, and indeed upgraded Onyx models as well because they are already paid for... and all are rather potent against a range of target types.

    I would never say helpless. They have some pretty capable ships, but its unlikely they can defend against these missiles with their current defensive systems

    Certainly not helpless.... in fact if they remain in port in the US I would say impervious to most Russian anti ship missiles most of the time.... Smile
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:22 am

    GarryB wrote:
    I would never say helpless. They have some pretty capable ships, but its unlikely they can defend against these missiles with their current defensive systems

    Certainly not helpless.... in fact if they remain in port in the US I would say impervious to most Russian anti ship missiles most of the time....  Smile

    One of the reasons they have so many, IMHO, is for exactly that reason, to provide some kind of anti air defence for ports. The US and all other seaside NATO countries don't have much else to do the job.
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    Post  Hole on Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:22 pm

    Problem is they don´t have enough missiles for that. Ships at home are mostly empty, their missiles will be loaded onto ships that go on "vaccation" overseas.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:34 am

    One big advantage of the Kh-32 is that it uses essentially the same shell as the Kh-22M which they probably have enormous numbers of.

    I would suspect a few minor upgrades to the older missiles and they could be rather more potent than they are too, and with Zircon they will likely be doing something similar to the Onyx missiles that preceeded them it means the production for the new missiles are not so urgent and can transition from making the old missiles to making new ones and upgrading old ones in a nice orderly fashion that keeps missile numbers rather high.


    One of the reasons they have so many, IMHO, is for exactly that reason, to provide some kind of anti air defence for ports. The US and all other seaside NATO countries don't have much else to do the job.

    Well lets face facts... if they didn't keep poking the bear they wouldn't need anything better than they currently have now anyway... Twisted Evil

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:59 pm

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:11 pm

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