Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+68
Backman
owais.usmani
magnumcromagnon
Isos
kvs
AlfaT8
thegopnik
ahmedfire
jhelb
AMCXXL
marcellogo
Azi
ATLASCUB
archangelski
Rodion_Romanovic
hoom
LMFS
GunshipDemocracy
Singular_Transform
Hole
GarryB
GJ Flanker
mnztr
dino00
Cheetah
MC-21
gaurav
Pierre Sprey
T-47
miketheterrible
PapaDragon
TheArmenian
ult
SeigSoloyvov
AK-Rex
Tsavo Lion
OminousSpudd
Benya
David-Lanza
bojcistv
eehnie
Morpheus Eberhardt
wilhelm
andrey19900
Giulio
Svyatoslavich
d_taddei2
JohninMK
Big_Gazza
franco
sepheronx
Mike E
Cyberspec
zg18
mack8
diabetus
Werewolf
flamming_python
Mindstorm
Austin
TR1
George1
IronsightSniper
Stealthflanker
haavarla
psg
Viktor
Admin
72 posters

    Tu-22M3: News

    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 1197
    Points : 1231
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  mnztr Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:39 pm

    marcellogo wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    George1 wrote:

    China hasnt any Tu-22s

    how do you know they won't have them in the future?

    To acquire them it would have to buy to Russia, so WTH Iran wouldn't just buy them directly?

    Who says Iran are going to own them. If they are Chinese or Russian planes sitting on the tarmac of an Iranian Airbase, how do you think the US or Israel would feel about attacking them, as opposed to them being IRAF planes?
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29944
    Points : 30470
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:28 am

    There have been rumors that China was going to license produce the TU-22 for about a decade now. How do you know this has not been an ongoing project for years? As for an oilsite, geopolitics and oil are often intertwined. Also I would expect Russia has quite a few frames in reserve.

    China wanted to buy some Tu-22M3s in the mid 1990s and Russia said no. Russia said no because China wanted to buy 2.

    You assume TU-22's are available for Iran to buy..why does China persist with the TU-16 vs buying the TU-22?

    The Soviet Union sold Tu-22s to Iraq. I have never heard any comment before about Iran being interested in such aircraft, and I suspect the people behind this oil website are just stirring some shit up... creating speculations where none actually exist... playing geopolitical games...

    AFAIK Iran are not interested in the Backfire, the only reason it has been mentioned is Russian use of the Backfire in the region and potential operational use from Iranian airbases that would allow much heavier payloads be delivered over much shorter distances...

    Who says Iran are going to own them. If they are Chinese or Russian planes sitting on the tarmac of an Iranian Airbase, how do you think the US or Israel would feel about attacking them, as opposed to them being IRAF planes?

    The suggestion in the article was that the aircraft Russia wants to base in Iran are the same aircraft Iran wants to operate for itself, but made the mistake of suggesting a Chinese upgrade Backfire would be of interest... Anyone who follows aviation would see that as being obvious BS... a bit like Iran also considering a Ford Class carrier with Chinese EMALS and EM weapons fitted...
    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 1197
    Points : 1231
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  mnztr Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:03 pm

    There is no suggestion iran would be acquiring tu-22s just that they would be based there and that there may be. A chinese modified version. The tu-22 is 10 years older now. Perhaps russia is less protective of the tech as its older and we able to obtain major oil and gas contracts with china in return for the technology. Russian and chinese bases give iran a great deal of security from US threats
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29944
    Points : 30470
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:37 am

    It is like suggesting they want and F-35 but they want the Russian upgraded version... there is no Chinese upgraded version of any model Backfire... you can't upgrade something you have never had access to.

    It is just silly...

    Iran has never given any indication of wanting a Backfire... it is not a question of whether Russia wants to sell it or not... this is just an oil website trying to bait the US and Israel to go apeshit over Iran possibly getting a powerful strike bomber they have never shown any interest in before...

    Ignore it.

    Iran has rules against allowing foreign countries having military bases on their territory.... and that is understandable considering they have had the US there in the past and they can see around the world the only way to get them out is by force... and they don't want to be put in the same situation with China or Russia doing the same. Perfectly understandable.
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 16356
    Points : 16857
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  George1 Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:39 am

    Flight of long-range Tu-22 bombers as part of the exercise "Slavic Brotherhood-2020" in Belarus

    Hole likes this post

    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 4306
    Points : 4298
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 45
    Location : Merkelland

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Hole Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:07 pm

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 H-32_g10
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 H-32_g11
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 H-32_g12
    Launch of a Kh-32

    GarryB, George1, flamming_python, dino00, magnumcromagnon, Big_Gazza, thegopnik and like this post

    thegopnik
    thegopnik

    Posts : 502
    Points : 508
    Join date : 2017-09-19

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  thegopnik Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:34 am

    Hole wrote:Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 H-32_g10
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 H-32_g11
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 H-32_g12
    Launch of a Kh-32

    Google search is telling me 12 meters in length .92 meter diameter. The kinzhal is 1 meter in diameter, estimated 8 meters in length and more than twice the speed and range of the kh-32. I am just wondering if kinzhal is a way better weapon to always choose than the kh-32.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29944
    Points : 30470
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:02 am

    The figures for range and speed are based on a launch at mach 2+ from a MiG-31 at over 14km altitude.

    Kinzhal is a solid rocket fuelled modification of the ground launched Iskander missile. The Kh-32 is a liquid fuelled missile that is developed from the Kh-22M.

    Having both in production and service is a good thing and both would be dangerous for enemy shipping.

    The Backfire can carry up to three Kh-32s... I am not aware of any that have had Kinzhal compatible launch pylons.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 4306
    Points : 4298
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 45
    Location : Merkelland

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Hole Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:02 am

    As I see it, the Kinzhal is an AEGIS killer while the heavier Kh-32 will then kill the carrier.
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 7659
    Points : 7641
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Isos Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:41 am

    If it can hit an aegis ship it can hit a carrier.

    Both are stop gap solutions until real hypersonic missiles comes in. Kh-32 is an improved kh-22 and kinzhal is just an iskander with software changes to hit ships.

    flamming_python and lyle6 like this post

    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 1197
    Points : 1231
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  mnztr Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:13 am

    Kinzhals range and speed are highly dependant on the launch platform. The MIG-31 imparts so much altitude and energy on the missile, it could probably travel over 150 km even if the engine did not light. Rocket engine can be also optimized to operate at MACH 2 plus as it does not have to handle static launch and climb out. Much slower burn rate, less thrust and high exhaust velocity.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 4306
    Points : 4298
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 45
    Location : Merkelland

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Hole Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:37 pm

    Isos wrote:If it can hit an aegis ship it can hit a carrier.

    Both are stop gap solutions until real hypersonic missiles comes in. Kh-32 is an improved kh-22 and kinzhal is just an iskander with software changes to hit ships.

    But the AEGIs ship is helpless against a Kinzhal and the Kh-32 has a heavier warhead.
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 10334
    Points : 10481
    Join date : 2014-09-10
    Location : Canuckistan

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  kvs Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:58 pm

    Missile systems are not instantly retired if new systems with "better" parameters come out.

    We really do not know the characteristics of the Kh-32. It could be more maneuverable than the Kinzhal since the latter is a hypersonic system
    which limits its maneuverability to some extent. The faster you fly the more inertia you have.

    Singular_Transform
    Singular_Transform

    Posts : 920
    Points : 906
    Join date : 2016-11-13

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Singular_Transform Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:31 pm

    kvs wrote:Missile systems are not instantly retired if new systems with "better" parameters come out.  

    We really do not know the characteristics of the Kh-32.   It could be more maneuverable than the Kinzhal since the latter is a hypersonic system
    which limits its maneuverability to some extent.    The faster you fly the more inertia you have.


    Double the speed and the turning radius will be four times bigger for the same g value.
    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 1197
    Points : 1231
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  mnztr Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:49 pm

    Hole wrote:

    But the AEGIs ship is helpless against a Kinzhal and the Kh-32 has a heavier warhead.


    I would never say helpless. They have some pretty capable ships, but its unlikely they can defend against these missiles with their current defensive systems
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29944
    Points : 30470
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:58 am

    Essentially Zircon will replace Onyx eventually, that is its place.

    The Kh-32 is replacing the Kh-22M, but its liquid fuels are highly toxic and not popular so an air launched version of Zircon could be a fairly obvious replacement for Kh-32.

    The Kh-32 is a natural evolution of an older system that externally looks the same... the difference is better liquid rocket motors and improved energy fuel.

    The Kinzhal is an air launched version of the ground launched Iskander solid fuelled rocket and is a quick fix stopgap solution.

    Zircon has the most potential as it will be the lightest of all these weapons, but also the fastest and probably ultimately the cheapest, because its scoops up oxygen as it moves through the air like other jet powered objects.

    The solid rocket and liquid rocket models need to carry their own oxygen with them which quadruples the weight of "fuel".

    Zircon will fit into all land based and ship and sub based UKSK launch tubes, and likely will be adapted to be carried by their strategic bombers and the Backfire as well and perhaps a smaller model for lighter aircraft like the Su-34 and Su-35/30.

    Being jet powered it can throttle up or down to use fuel much more efficiently, so being launched from very high altitude and very high speed wont impact its performance as much as the same would with a solid rocket motor powered missile.

    They will likely continue to use all three weapons, and indeed upgraded Onyx models as well because they are already paid for... and all are rather potent against a range of target types.

    I would never say helpless. They have some pretty capable ships, but its unlikely they can defend against these missiles with their current defensive systems

    Certainly not helpless.... in fact if they remain in port in the US I would say impervious to most Russian anti ship missiles most of the time.... Smile
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 8971
    Points : 9068
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  JohninMK Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:22 am

    GarryB wrote:
    I would never say helpless. They have some pretty capable ships, but its unlikely they can defend against these missiles with their current defensive systems

    Certainly not helpless.... in fact if they remain in port in the US I would say impervious to most Russian anti ship missiles most of the time....  Smile

    One of the reasons they have so many, IMHO, is for exactly that reason, to provide some kind of anti air defence for ports. The US and all other seaside NATO countries don't have much else to do the job.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 4306
    Points : 4298
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 45
    Location : Merkelland

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Hole Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:22 am

    Problem is they don´t have enough missiles for that. Ships at home are mostly empty, their missiles will be loaded onto ships that go on "vaccation" overseas.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29944
    Points : 30470
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:34 pm

    One big advantage of the Kh-32 is that it uses essentially the same shell as the Kh-22M which they probably have enormous numbers of.

    I would suspect a few minor upgrades to the older missiles and they could be rather more potent than they are too, and with Zircon they will likely be doing something similar to the Onyx missiles that preceeded them it means the production for the new missiles are not so urgent and can transition from making the old missiles to making new ones and upgrading old ones in a nice orderly fashion that keeps missile numbers rather high.


    One of the reasons they have so many, IMHO, is for exactly that reason, to provide some kind of anti air defence for ports. The US and all other seaside NATO countries don't have much else to do the job.

    Well lets face facts... if they didn't keep poking the bear they wouldn't need anything better than they currently have now anyway... Twisted Evil

    gc3762 likes this post

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 7326
    Points : 7475
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:59 pm

    GarryB, George1, zardof, mnztr, Hole and lancelot like this post

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 7326
    Points : 7475
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:11 pm

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 EnkRBTSXMAE98rN?format=jpg&name=large

    GarryB, George1, zepia, mnztr, LMFS, TMA1 and 11E like this post

    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 4306
    Points : 4298
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 45
    Location : Merkelland

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Hole Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:04 pm

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Etjhdx10

    Big_Gazza, PapaDragon, zepia, zardof and The_Observer like this post

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 7326
    Points : 7475
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:14 pm

    Hole wrote:Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Etjhdx10

    I saw that image early today on twitter, the fidelity of the photo is in question and I wonder if it's been photoshopped.

    GarryB, George1, Big_Gazza, PapaDragon and 11E like this post

    George1
    George1

    Posts : 16356
    Points : 16857
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  George1 Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:31 am

    Kh-32 cruise missile was tested by the upgraded Tu-22M3M bomber.

    https://en.topwar.ru/179735-krylatuju-raketu-h-32-ispytali-s-borta-modernizirovannogo-bombardirovschika-tu-22m3.html

    dino00, Big_Gazza, thegopnik and LMFS like this post

    avatar
    owais.usmani

    Posts : 714
    Points : 714
    Join date : 2019-03-27
    Age : 35

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  owais.usmani Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:24 am

    Hole likes this post


    Sponsored content

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 30 Empty Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:46 am