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    Will the Muslims that live in Russia cause problems for Russia?

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python on Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:44 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:I noticed it too in comments section but there seems to be a considerable amount of wierd wording.

    They say country but not in the sense of country as separate but also mention that they are southern Russia.

    Wording is fucked but it is similar to how they say "this or that country" within Canada or USA.  


    This is pretty much it. Actual seperatists in Dagestan are rare but they are proud of their own republic and traditions. In practice Dagestan like Chechnya pretty much is ruled by its own people not those sent from Moscow and everyone is fine with this arrangement. When Moscow does send someone there (like now with Vasilyev) it's because they failed to get their own shit together themselves.

    Daegestan and Ingushetia are the two regions where they had one of the highest in wanting to stay part of Russia back in the early 90's.  In current times, they are also some of the most patriotic to Russia next to Chechnya where they all vote heavy for a heavy handed government in Moscow.

    They seem to at least love their home country Russia.  And yes, they love their region of Russia and well, that is good for them.

    All those votes are faked by controlling clans and leaders for the benefit of Moscow so we have no way of knowing

    What we can guess though is that Chechnya is still the most separatist region; albeit the percentage has gone way down and probably most people don't care anymore. Ingushetia is still somewhat seperatist (and it was in the 90s too back when it was ruled by the closet independist Ruslan Aushev who gave cover to Chechen rebels operating on Ingush territory), and Dagestan is pretty loyalist albeit also with a good enough amount of Islamist scumbags (whose main worry is not independence from Russia but rather uniting with other Russian and ex-Soviet Muslims).
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:51 pm

    I doubt it. It was pushed by Western groups who had a wish for separatism.

    Chechnya proved that they initially had that desire.

    These days, they are usually quiet. But I imagine it's the money they get and yes, the dominant clans who control the area.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python on Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:55 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:I doubt it. It was pushed by Western groups who had a wish for separatism.

    Chechnya proved that they initially had that desire.

    These days, they are usually quiet. But I imagine it's the money they get and yes, the dominant clans who control the area.

    Point is if Erdogan ever makes his way to the North Caucasus there'll be enough of a welcoming party of his fans from the part of Ingushetia and more so Chechnya. Not saying all, or most - but enough; and when they turn everything into a Russians vs Chechens shitshow and both sides start taking to arms the rest of them will be inclined to take sides with their relatives if for no other reason.
    A few Erdo fans will be in Dagestan as well but they'll be far outnumbered and never reach critical mass.

    Same as when the Saudi Wahhabists came to visit

    Same as when the Nazis came to visit

    Each time actually Dagestan saves Russia's ass in the region and doesn't let the rot spread further.

    It's always the same and don't be surprised when these fake votes turn out not to show the complete picture. Kadyrov is genuine in his loyalty to Moscow, but he has plenty of enemies in his own republic.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:16 pm

    That isn't really how things work. This isn't the 18th century where you have to be at the border to fuck someone over.

    Turkey already plays these games. Hence why Russia has a national guard.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python on Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:21 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:That isn't really how things work. This isn't the 18th century where you have to be at the border to fuck someone over.

    Turkey already plays these games. Hence why Russia has a national guard.

    It's exactly how things work

    How did the Saudis, Turks, Western intelligence services all start making allies and encouraging Chechen rebels in the 90s?

    Through Georgia and a fuck ton of money, corrupt Russian officials and officers, and a collapsing political system in general

    You don't have to be at someone's border but it certainly helps, and a land-based supply route is the most reliable. Georgia's still unfriendly and encourages seperatism in the North Caucasus through its intelligence services at every opportunity. The Turks are in Azerbaijan now and only have to wait until the next real political crisis or collapse in Russia.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:29 am

    Well, they will be waiting for a lot longer than you or I will be alive.

    Neither of them have close to the same stability as Russia.
    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius on Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:27 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:That isn't really how things work. This isn't the 18th century where you have to be at the border to fuck someone over.

    Turkey already plays these games. Hence why Russia has a national guard.

    It's exactly how things work

    How did the Saudis, Turks, Western intelligence services all start making allies and encouraging Chechen rebels in the 90s?

    Through Georgia and a fuck ton of money, corrupt Russian officials and officers, and a collapsing political system in general

    You don't have to be at someone's border but it certainly helps, and a land-based supply route is the most reliable. Georgia's still unfriendly and encourages seperatism in the North Caucasus through its intelligence services at every opportunity. The Turks are in Azerbaijan now and only have to wait until the next real political crisis or collapse in Russia.

    About my attitude to Armenia:
    Will the Muslims that live in Russia cause problems for Russia? - Page 6 KsyRZShiXHI

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:19 am

    But the problem is that this is how colour revolutions work... pay a few idiots and malcontents to demonstrate in the streets to stir things up and radicalise and polarise positions on both sides... there are always hardliners on both sides who will see this and think... fuck you guys... even though it is a paid minority trying to stir up trouble.

    When the other side then reacts then they get defensive and pretty soon there is division that Soros and the US and the west can take advantage of... the obvious problem is that 5 or ten years down the track and they start telling you to do things you don't want to do like take refugees from Syria or Afghanistan, or pass laws regarding all sorts of sexual perversion hidden in legislation about human rights and other such BS.

    There are probably quite a few people in the Baltic states who think Russians were bad but then never made us take refugees or demanded we make this or that rule regarding gay parades down our main street with brightly coloured weirdos prancing about the place...

    But that is their problem now isn't it?

    Not saying Russia could have stopped things in Ukraine... really it is a problem for the Ukraine... they should have anticipated it and taken steps to stop it because it is not even their first attempt in the Ukraine.

    The irony is that something similar has really happened in New Zealand... the older people look to the UK and Europe, but the young people think the US is where it is at... the irony is that we get new more fascist laws based on American laws really... but the two main exceptions that they refuse to consider copying from the US and those are the self defence laws and the gun ownership laws...

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