Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+54
Ned86
sepheronx
limb
Belisarius
caveat emptor
Rasisuki Nebia
AlfaT8
Arkanghelsk
ALAMO
Podlodka77
Lennox
d_taddei2
11E
AZ-5
Krepost
LMFS
Gomig-21
Sujoy
Stealthflanker
Kiko
slasher
Mir
Yugo90
PhSt
AMCXXL
galicije83
Big_Gazza
Mindstorm
calripson
nero
The_Observer
lancelot
Finty
TMA1
Backman
Scorpius
JohninMK
GarryB
medo
Isos
AJ-47
George1
marcellogo
ult
franco
Hole
miketheterrible
dino00
kvs
owais.usmani
magnumcromagnon
PapaDragon
mnztr
hoom
58 posters

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 2720
    Points : 2718
    Join date : 2020-10-17

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  lancelot Wed Jul 05, 2023 5:12 pm

    Did they upgrade the engine and radar of the Su-30SM2 as originally planned or not?
    AMCXXL
    AMCXXL


    Posts : 990
    Points : 990
    Join date : 2017-08-08

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  AMCXXL Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:07 pm

    Nº86, one of the last batch delivered
    https://russianplanes.net/id318778
    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 31877810

    GarryB, franco, George1, zardof, Gomig-21, LMFS, lancelot and like this post

    AMCXXL
    AMCXXL


    Posts : 990
    Points : 990
    Join date : 2017-08-08

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  AMCXXL Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:30 am

    Su-30SM of the "Russian Knigths" Squadron in a combat mission
    It is impressive to see how radar tricks are played. A Su-30SM flies alongside 2 Mi-28 "Havoc" helicopters.
    The radar operator will think that there are 3 helicopters, he will send 1 response, he will give away his position, and he will be counterattacked by the Sukhoi's missiles.

    GarryB, franco, George1, Big_Gazza, PapaDragon, Gomig-21, Hole and Arkanghelsk like this post

    headshot69 dislikes this post

    headshot69
    headshot69


    Posts : 25
    Points : 31
    Join date : 2015-10-09
    Location : Terra Incognita

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  headshot69 Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:56 pm

    ...not a  combat mission... SU has no weapons...m28 and SU in combat will never fly in so close formation(stupid from tactical point of view) also your imagination of how the combat mission works is very naive...sorry...
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6868
    Points : 6960
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  ALAMO Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:29 pm

    Oink oink oink, troll alert!
    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21


    Posts : 670
    Points : 672
    Join date : 2016-07-17

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  Gomig-21 Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:05 pm

    That was tremendously impressive.  Just goes to show one of the many incredible capabilities of the Su-30SM.  Flying at such low speed and at what appears to probably be its maximum allowable angle of attack without a hint of stalling or even showing any signs of the need to constantly make adjustments.  The aircraft's attitude was just as steady as can be which is amazing in of itself.  That's pretty much the reason why this specific maneuver is one of the most popular ones showcased at almost every airshow with all different types of aircraft.   

    The one in Canada with the RCAF F/A-18 that was training for an upcoming airshow and as soon as he slowed down and went into that high AoA, the jet suffered a flameout in the portside engine from a bird ingestion I believe and went down in less than 1.5 seconds.  Miracle that the pilot ejected safely.

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 CV612WJHGrGHbUXStvylz3GaGoxIf8juewAFOELukG8

    I think everyone remembers the great Anatoly Kovutchur having the same exact thing happen to him in 1989 at the Farnborough air show in Paris.  This was one of the first times the west was able to see the MiG-29 up close and everyone had eyes glued on this demonstration which was incredible.  Kovutchur flew that thing like it was no one else's business then same thing, slowed down and went into that high AoA maneuver, and the same thing happened to the MiG with a bird ingestion.  This is the best example of the closest to the ground safest ejection ever.  It looked like his parachute canopy opened fully 1-1-millionth of a second before his feet touched the ground.

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 R.9f90e30200e730804b031edc1c92e679?rik=L4DQ4LeuKPoUaw&riu=http%3a%2f%2fairwar.ru%2fphoto%2fmig29-2%2fmig29crash

    As far as the combat aspect, it's certainly a viable tactic, why not?  That's what HARM missiles are specifically designed for so why not create offensive tactics to facilitate the destruction of enemy radar sites.  That's pretty much the entire reason the USAF designated entire air force regiments in the Wild Weasels was to attack enemy radars and air defense sites.  

    Get into that formation with the helicopters quickly, move into the designated sector while the aircraft's RWR picks up the enemy's GC radar location, break off at the appropriate stand-off distance and fire a couple of HARM missiles and retreat.  Makes perfect sense and it's only reasonable to see such a tactic being conducted in a training exercise like this one.

    franco, Hole and Arkanghelsk like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39212
    Points : 39710
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 21, 2023 2:23 am

    ...not a  combat mission... SU has no weapons...m28 and SU in combat will never fly in so close formation(stupid from tactical point of view) also your imagination of how the combat mission works is very naive...sorry...

    Pretty sure they are not suggesting this video was a combat usage of the tactic... more like it is perhaps testing the idea and seeing if it would work.

    Of course the irony is that Russia has a range of anti radar missiles including old Kh-25MP and similar types (called AS-12 I believe) as well as Kh-31 which could be carried by their Ka-52 helicopters to hunt down and destroy radars exposing themselves.

    I think everyone remembers the great Anatoly Kovutchur having the same exact thing happen to him in 1989 at the Farnborough air show in Paris.

    It did display at Farnborough in 1988, but the crash was in Paris in 1989.

    Gomig-21 likes this post

    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21


    Posts : 670
    Points : 672
    Join date : 2016-07-17

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Nov 21, 2023 3:09 pm

    GarryB wrote:It did display at Farnborough in 1988, but the crash was in Paris in 1989.

    That's what I meant to say.  cheers

    GarryB likes this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 3676
    Points : 3682
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  Arkanghelsk Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:11 pm

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Img_2310

    New batch of Su30 and Yak130 issued to VKS

    franco, Big_Gazza, Gomig-21, Hole and lancelot like this post

    mack8
    mack8


    Posts : 1039
    Points : 1093
    Join date : 2013-08-02

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  mack8 Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:25 pm

    Here is a video of the Su-30SM delivery plus Yak-130 delivery as well.
    https://twitter.com/vicktop55/status/1730850490844344810

    GarryB, franco and Hole like this post

    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18346
    Points : 18843
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  George1 Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:04 am



    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4778616.html

    Hole and lancelot like this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 3676
    Points : 3682
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:46 pm

    Do we have any information on su30sm2 upgrade contract?

    MOD has been releasing when a "new batch" of su35 or su34 is released, and takes care to blur out numbers and not give away numbers of new aircraft

    When it comes to upgraded aircraft I think we are even more blind

    How would we know if these things aren't rolling off the line like cakes?
    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 2720
    Points : 2718
    Join date : 2020-10-17

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  lancelot Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:57 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Do we have any information on su30sm2 upgrade contract?

    MOD has been releasing when a "new batch" of su35 or su34 is released, and takes care to blur out numbers and not give away numbers of new aircraft

    When it comes to upgraded aircraft I think we are even more blind

    How would we know if these things aren't rolling off the line like cakes?
    Is the upgrade even worth it? We don't even know if the Su-30SM2 has the Irbis radar and AL-41F1 engines as originally planned or not. I keep hearing that it uses the same AL-31FP engines.

    In the case of other Flankers the VKS has typically preferred buying whole new airframes instead of upgrading existing older ones. It is only when the airframe is out of production like with the MiG-31 that proper upgrade programs actually have happened.
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10863
    Points : 10841
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  Hole Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:26 pm

    Serious upgrades were planned for Su-34, S-35 and the Su-57 before serial prodcution started.
    Why should the Su-30 be an exception?
    They will bring them up to the standard of the Su-35 in the coming years.

    Eugenio Argentina likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39212
    Points : 39710
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  GarryB Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:59 am

    The point of this "upgrade" is more about standardisation than anything else, though it is certainly an upgrade it is more about unifying the Su-30 and Su-35 so they use the same engines and the same radar to make support and maintenance and training easier and cheaper.

    I would suspect changing the engine makers and radar makers to make one type instead of two types makes things easier and cheaper and faster too.

    Upgrades are ongoing things so this wont be the last... eventually they will probably upgrade the flankers with the new engines for the Su-57s too... to increase performance in the Su-30 and Su-35 and Su-34.

    d_taddei2 and Eugenio Argentina like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6868
    Points : 6960
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  ALAMO Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:10 am

    Just take a closer look at the latest ideas coming from the USA.
    No matter what we consider about their MIC and some of the ideas - objectively speaking they are world biggest airpower that mastered air operations for a last age.
    They are coming back to the conception of a bomb/missile truck, and seriously discussing getting back to the 50s-70's approach.
    Su-30 can achieve the role perfectly well, while Russia is closer to the idea of rolling progress than they are now.
    I guess that the UkroWar will bring some new concepts, but ... let's wait and see.

    GarryB, d_taddei2, Gomig-21 and TMA1 like this post

    Stealthflanker
    Stealthflanker


    Posts : 1434
    Points : 1510
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 36
    Location : Indonesia

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  Stealthflanker Wed Apr 17, 2024 2:09 pm

    lancelot wrote:
    Is the upgrade even worth it? We don't even know if the Su-30SM2 has the Irbis radar and AL-41F1 engines as originally planned or not. I keep hearing that it uses the same AL-31FP engines.


    I think it has Irbis, given that SM-2 have that Leading Edge L-band radar, something which earlier SM does not need as N011M Bars already have IFF integrated in the main array.
    Atmosphere
    Atmosphere


    Posts : 279
    Points : 283
    Join date : 2021-01-31

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  Atmosphere Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:02 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:
    lancelot wrote:
    Is the upgrade even worth it? We don't even know if the Su-30SM2 has the Irbis radar and AL-41F1 engines as originally planned or not. I keep hearing that it uses the same AL-31FP engines.


    I think it has Irbis, given that SM-2 have that Leading Edge L-band radar, something which earlier SM does not need as N011M Bars already have IFF integrated in the main array.

    L band radar does not necessairly mean IFF. It could very well be that IRBIS already has IFF integrated in the main array or that there is a separate small array in the aircraft for IFF work, it does not justify the two big jumbo size arrays on the wing edges.

    GarryB and Hole like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39212
    Points : 39710
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 18, 2024 4:24 am

    The entire Su-30 branch of the Flanker family was about a two seater fighter with a rear cockpit guy for directing traffic and watching the radar screen for the PVO.

    The unification of resources and assets makes sense in this case, there is no advantage to the Su-30 and Su-35 having different radar in their noses.

    d_taddei2, Manov and Atmosphere like this post

    Eugenio Argentina
    Eugenio Argentina


    Posts : 3096
    Points : 3100
    Join date : 2018-02-25

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty The Su-30SM2

    Post  Eugenio Argentina Thu May 23, 2024 9:28 am

    The Su-30SM2 over Crimea was first seen carrying R-37M missiles (air-to-air, range up to 300 km), previously only the Su-35 and MiG-31 had such missiles.

    https://t.me/jnb_news/48805

    Cool

    GarryB, flamming_python, xeno and Hole like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39212
    Points : 39710
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  GarryB Thu May 23, 2024 9:52 am

    One of the features of the R-37M was that it was intended for all new fighters... which included 4+ gen fighters ...the Su-27M (Su-30/Su-35), MiG-29M (MiG-29KR/MiG-35) and Yak-141 as well as the obvious MiG-31 and upgrades.

    It was also intended for all 5th gen fighters too.

    The R-37 family of missiles are designed to engage fighter type targets as well as cruise missiles and bombers, but even on a MiG-35 it can be used to max range against targets like AWACS and JSTARS and large aircraft including inflight refuelling platforms and troop transports.

    flamming_python and Eugenio Argentina like this post


    Sponsored content


    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 14 Empty Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun May 26, 2024 7:51 am