Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    2020 Beirut explosions

    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6778
    Points : 6925
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  kvs on Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:20 am

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/hezbollah-will-not-remain-silent-nasrallah-suggests-israeli-involvement-beirut-port

    Nasrallah is right, the FBI is not an impartial agency. It's brazen role in the Russiagate hoax proves this beyond any shadow of
    a doubt. But regardless a US agency should not be doing any investigations in Lebanon. Put together an international team.
    This will at least produce some checks and balances on fraud.

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6104
    Points : 6255
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:53 pm

    kvs wrote:https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/hezbollah-will-not-remain-silent-nasrallah-suggests-israeli-involvement-beirut-port

    Nasrallah is right, the FBI is not an impartial agency.   It's brazen role in the Russiagate hoax proves this beyond any shadow of
    a doubt.   But regardless a US agency should not be doing any investigations in Lebanon.   Put together an international team.
    This will at least produce some checks and balances on fraud.


    The FBI's own charter limits it to being US internal affairs only, so what are they doing in Lebanon? Seems suspicious.
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6778
    Points : 6925
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  kvs on Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:45 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    kvs wrote:https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/hezbollah-will-not-remain-silent-nasrallah-suggests-israeli-involvement-beirut-port

    Nasrallah is right, the FBI is not an impartial agency.   It's brazen role in the Russiagate hoax proves this beyond any shadow of
    a doubt.   But regardless a US agency should not be doing any investigations in Lebanon.   Put together an international team.
    This will at least produce some checks and balances on fraud.


    The FBI's own charter limits it to being US internal affairs only, so what are they doing in Lebanon? Seems suspicious.

    I recall the FBI doing investigations in other countries with an invitation. But Lebanon must be run by compromised officials
    if they are allowing the USA (one of the potential perps) to investigate the potential crime.

    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 7804
    Points : 7887
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:59 pm

    kvs wrote:

    I recall the FBI doing investigations in other countries with an invitation.    But Lebanon must be run by compromised officials
    if they are allowing the USA (one of the potential perps) to investigate the potential crime.

    The part of Lebanese society that runs the port is 'owned' by Saudi money. It is them would would have said get the FBI in, as they really wouldn't have wanted someone like the Russians in. The alternative would probably have been from the UK or France.

    No way was there going to be an actual independent inquiry.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25896
    Points : 26442
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:28 pm

    No different from Russia being excluded and the Ukraine included into the investigation into the Malaysian aircraft the Ukrainians shot down...

    Werewolf likes this post

    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6778
    Points : 6925
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  kvs on Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:43 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    kvs wrote:

    I recall the FBI doing investigations in other countries with an invitation.    But Lebanon must be run by compromised officials
    if they are allowing the USA (one of the potential perps) to investigate the potential crime.

    The part of Lebanese society that runs the port is 'owned' by Saudi money. It is them would would have said get the FBI in, as they really wouldn't have wanted someone like the Russians in. The alternative would probably have been from the UK or France.

    No way was there going to be an actual independent inquiry.

    Thanks for the info. That would be consistent with this explosion being a staged event. The Saudi-tied clowns who owned the
    warehouse (the French troll actually farted that it was Hezbollah, bounce) made sure that the NH4NO3 was not disposed of
    properly.

    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6778
    Points : 6925
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  kvs on Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:45 am

    GarryB wrote:No different from Russia being excluded and the Ukraine included into the investigation into the Malaysian aircraft the Ukrainians shot down...

    That was even more grotesque since the Kiev regime is the prime suspect.

    The story of the Kiev ATC tapes says it all.   Why would they impound and destroy those tapes if they were innocent?   What is there to hide in
    boring aircraft location data and controller chatter?
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25896
    Points : 26442
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:25 pm

    A bit like the video tape of those American navy pilots who brought down that cable car... that disappeared or was destroyed... its destruction should be grounds for the court to suspect there was incriminating evidence on it and whoever was in possession of it when it was destroyed was cooperating in a cover up...

    On of the factors of including the Ukrainians in the investigation is that any witnesses from the rebel side are hardly going to give witness and their personal details to the enemy. Reporters who investigated on their own in the region often had their cameras and notes confiscated and handed over to Ukrainian government forces when they went back to the EU... who knows how many genuine witnesses have been made to disappear because of that...

    Werewolf likes this post

    nomadski
    nomadski

    Posts : 1108
    Points : 1114
    Join date : 2017-01-03

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  nomadski on Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:01 am

    Now they talk about rebuilding the port area. Iran helping. Either Beirut or further south. Some say must protect these ports from attack. No good building and see Usrael airforce destroy.  All agree in Iran that port facility important for Lebanon and links to East. Silk Road. But how to build quickly and safely and make bomb proof?

    The solution is to distribute the load. By loading and offloading from large ship. Using small Boats that carry one container at a time. Offload from large ship with own crane. Small Boat takes to floating Dock. Truck back into Boat, and goes under container. Container lowered a bit. Truck moves off. No crane needed. Small Boats can use, smaller containers. Standardised for this purpose. Easier to offload at sea. Or make small Boats amphibians. Come to shore and drive off! Best solution. No Dock needed...... Like the Duck in WW2.


    https://youtu.be/wIh1moAXsBA


    https://www.asianlift.com.sg/

    And :


    https://youtu.be/Y07OrWQ-vTs



    In this way modular sections of floating Dock can quickly be built. Standard trucks used. Boats built. If Usrael  or yank want to destroy port, they have to destroy hundred individual Boats and floating Dock sections. Very difficult. And very easy to replace Dock sections. Or Boats. Lebanese can do this with a little help from Iran. And of course some AD from Iran or Russia or China. Indestructible ! We have the technology, we can rebuild him.


    https://www.systemgroupmarine.com/marine/floating-docks/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj-PS1-Wi6wIVZGHmCh0uuwN3EAAYASAAEgIvRPD_BwE
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25896
    Points : 26442
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:59 am

    There is no such thing as a bomb proof port... or in fact a bomb proof anything...

    Making the port into a circus would not help either... having thousands of small boats handling one container at a time from a ship would be a nightmare to keep track of and manage.... lets say a ship with 3,000 containers on board started offloading containers to small boats... there would be a limit as to how many boats you had because this is just one ship and there will be a lot of ships there... there would be huge potential for a ratbag to take his boat alongside a ship and be given a crate full of stuff to just sail off with... he could pretend he is sailing around the huge traffic jam of other small boats trying to take their ships to the pier and then just sneak off.

    At the pier you would accept the crate but which ship did it come from? Where do you put it so the owner can organise getting onto another ship or truck or train for that matter.

    The WWII organisation of landing material was an emergency process specifically deployed in places in the middle of nowhere where the landings were taking place and they were done that way because there was not expected to be any built in infrastructure.

    It tended to work but required massive amounts of energy and resources that simply cannot be justified on a day to day basis in a place that is supposed to be a port...
    nomadski
    nomadski

    Posts : 1108
    Points : 1114
    Join date : 2017-01-03

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  nomadski on Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:48 pm

    True. Can not be bomb proof. But easily rebuilt. The sloping concrete landing points can be easily repaired or replaced. Instead of one port facility. We have ten. More targets more difficult to destroy by air. An enemy can not disable facility at port easily. Must target ship. Brings in other nation into war. More problematic.

    And ports are becoming blocked for large carriers. There seems to be size limits. For 3000 container ship, a fleet of 100 amphibians, each doing 10 loads per day, can offload in three days. Not impossible at all. And sorting should not be problem, with today technology. Maybe just what small nations need. Or even larger ones, in times of war.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30696685#:~:text=It%20usually%20takes%20about%2024,does%20most%20of%20the%20work.
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 7804
    Points : 7887
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:23 pm

    nomadski wrote:True. Can not be bomb proof. But easily rebuilt. The sloping concrete landing points can be easily repaired or replaced. Instead of one port facility. We have ten. More targets more difficult to destroy by air. An enemy can not disable facility at port easily. Must target ship. Brings in other nation into war. More problematic.

    And ports are becoming blocked for large carriers. There seems to be size limits. For 3000 container ship, a fleet of 100 amphibians, each doing 10 loads per day, can offload in three days. Not impossible at all. And sorting should not be problem, with today technology. Maybe just what small nations need. Or even larger ones, in times of war.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30696685#:~:text=It%20usually%20takes%20about%2024,does%20most%20of%20the%20work.

    You are trying to take port operations back 100 years. You are ignoring the realities of what Beirut port does. What functions did the blast destroyed section of dockside perform given that the big warehouse next to it had been full for years?

    Can you see any serious container handling facilities there now or before the blast? A couple of cranes and that's it. Where are all these new container loads coming from?

    Can you imagine the opportunities for theft? Why are you ignoring Lebanon's other port, Tripoli?

    Finally, what is the chance of the port being hit again without the rest of the ME also being in ruins?
    nomadski
    nomadski

    Posts : 1108
    Points : 1114
    Join date : 2017-01-03

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  nomadski on Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:30 am

    Maybe I am ignoring what Beirut port did exactly. But I am talking about most important function of any port. Transport of Goods. And no I am trying to find solution to allow supplies to get to Lebanon. Because I heard Tripoli port is limited capacity, and they are having problems.

    The solution applies to any nation with limited port facility. Either underdeveloped. Or facility destroyed. All that is needed, is to provide  AD,  and escorts at sea, to stop attacks or pirates. The way the world is going, arming transport ships themselves, seems plausible now!

    The different nations in Europe and Asia, can join forces and make Lebanon into zone of peace and trade. Bypass other routes, if they become blocked. It definetly is worthwhile. I think Russia will also benefit. By alternate route to MED. Bypass Turkey. China benefit, by land route to Europe,  through MED, if blockaded  at sea. Different solution exist for now. Needing no infrastructure.

    https://www.dsboffshore.com/vessels-for-sale/barges/flat-top-barges/

    And I like this one. Heavy capacity. Comes to shore. Russia or China must have similar....


    https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Navy_080703-N-4973M-012_Seabees_assigned_Amphibious_Construction_Battalion_(ACB)_1_offload_a_structural_piece_of_an_elevated_causeway_system_onto_Improved_Navy_Lighterage_System_(INLS)_Causeway_Ferry_1.jpg

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25896
    Points : 26442
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:56 pm

    The problem is bottle necks.... no matter what you do there going to be bottle necks.

    Having a huge ship able to carry enormous numbers of containers means problems on its own.

    You will have a network of ports... the amount of traffic going from the big ports to other big ports internationally might need to transport enormous numbers of shipping crates at a time, but equally sometimes you will have ships going from big ports to smaller ports that don't or wont carry as many containers.

    Think of it in terms of air travel... just using super big transport planes only makes sense if they are full all the time.

    The other factor of course is that fully laden big heavy planes can only operate from big flat runways in major airports, but when the big planes land and all this stuff arrives you need to break up the loads for the different destinations they will be headed to... no one sends products to ports or airfields... they need to be sorted and processed and moved on as quickly as possible... some things need to be checked before they go anywhere, and other things need to be moved as fast as possible because they will rot or degrade, so you need to ensure everything is properly organised... having fruit and veg in the bottom where it takes 3 days to get to is not a great setup, but you are relying on the port that loaded the ship to make the sensible load choices... a 3,000 container ship might be dropping off 500 containers and picking up 350 containers and moving on to the next port... it would be a horrendously complex system... AI would probably help keeping it run efficiently, but I certainly would not be experimenting with my main port testing new ideas.... Smile

    Flat top barges are great for rivers, but no good for open ocean... Cranes that can carry more than one container at a time and can collect up multiple containers that need to remain together... perhaps placing them together on the ground or on train flatbeds or whatever...

    Having a row of channels for individual ships, so a ship can sail in and stop while cranes taking off containers to either side of the ship can quickly remove the necessary containers and then sail to the next position to add any that need to be added and then it can sail off while the containers removed are moved to storage areas or transferred to the second location for the ship they need to sail on to continue their trip... trains or trucks can come alongside and take the containers where they need to go...

    The best solution would be to build up all your ports so you have five busy ports instead of one crazy port and four relatively idle ones... all the ports can have road and rail connections so it really wont matter too much which port the goods go through...
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 7804
    Points : 7887
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:29 am

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Ef39cTBWkAMEQKm?format=jpg&name=small

    Sponsored content

    2020 Beirut explosions - Page 5 Empty Re: 2020 Beirut explosions

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:02 pm