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    Libyan Crisis #2

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:01 am

    medo wrote:I don't think Syria send any But to Libya, they need them at home against Turks and Israelis. Most probably Egypt deliver some.

    They don't know how to operate them. If they send them there then it's syrian or egyptian crews inside which I doubt. They wouldn't risk loosing the crew and the system to protect libyabs from turkish drobes which have a small impact on the war. Pantsir do the job quite well anyway.

    Anyway I don't understand LNA side. Turkey doesn't hide the fact they support GNA with terrorists. Egyptian air force could wipe out turkish systems (drones, AD, vehicles, cargo ships) in one attack and probably end the war. Turkey isn't a major power. They have nothing to threat anyone really. Just attack them like they attack you.

    Russian supported side always talk about s-300, buks... which are defensive weapons when they have stuff like su-24?, mig-29, kh-59... you don't win wars with defensive weapons.

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    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:56 am

    It's a strange war for sure. Probably a lot of political haggling going on behind the scenes.

    Anyway, we might see an escalation soon...reports of artillery fire west of Sirte
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    Post  jhelb Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:04 am

    We might get to see M1 Abrams vs Leo 2 fight. Leo MBTs have not been deployed in Libya yet.

    But there could still be a fight between M1A2 vs M-60T
    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:54 pm

    Sisi made a meeting today with Libyan tribal leaders .


    He said ;

    Egyptian Army to intervene 'at Libyans’ request, withdraw upon their order': Sisi to tribal chiefs .

    One of the parties to the Libyan conflict fell under control of a foreign power.

    The Egyptian Army, in the even of intervening, will be led by Libyans carrying the Libyan flag ,he added that the army intervention in Libya has to be approved by the Egyptian House of Representatives.

    Egyptian Army to intervene 'at Libyans’ request, withdraw upon their order'

    “Egypt has the strongest Army is the region and Africa,” Sisi said, adding that it is, however, wise and does not assail or invade other territories.

    Sisi said that one of the parties to the Libyan conflict has become under the control of a foreign power that uses this faction for certain purposes in the region, regardless of the Libyan national interest.

    Concerning intervention in Libya, the President said Egypt has always stood by a peaceful solution in Libya through encouraging negotiations between Libyan factions. However, it will not stand idly as it watches activities that threaten Egypt’s national security.


    Libyan Crisis #2 - Page 9 20200710

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    medo
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    Post  medo Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:42 pm

    https://www.pentapostagma.gr/kosmos/enoples-syrraxeis/6952648_libyi-h-damaskos-esteile-pantsir-s-kai-buk-m2e-ston-lna

    To οπλοστάσιο του Εθνικού Στρατού της Λιβύης (LNA) εξοπλίστηκε με περισσότερα ρωσικά όπλα από τη Συρία, αναφέρουν πολλαπλές πηγές, ενώ σημειώνεται πως τα στρατεύματα του Χαφτάρ απολαμβάνουν και την άμεση και έμπρακτη υποστήριξη του προέδρου της Συρίας, Μπασάρ αλ Άσαντ.


    Σύμφωνα με διάφορες πηγές, ως μέρος της βοήθειας προς τον Εθνικό Στρατό της Λιβύης (LNA) με επικεφαλής τον Χαλίφα Χαφτάρ, η Συρία έχει μεταφέρει συστήματα αεροπορικής άμυνας στο οπλοστάσιο της βορειοαφρικανικής χώρας.

    Μιλάμε για τα συστήματα αεροπορικής άμυνας Pantsir-S και Buk-M2E που είχαν προηγουμένως παραδοθεί στην Αραβική Δημοκρατία, ενώ και τα δύο συστήματα έχουν αποδείξει ιδιαιτέρως τη δύναμή τους εναντίον των τουρκικών UAV.

    ΔΙΑΒΑΣΤΕ ΕΠΙΣΗΣ
    Σίσι, Ερντογάν, Λιβύη
    Ένοπλες Συρράξεις 16.07.2020 - 17:26103
    O Σίσι ετοιμάζει κοινό στρατό LNA-λιβυκών φυλών - Στο Κάιρο οι Λίβυοι αρχηγοί
    Σύμφωνα με το Southfront, στις 12 Ιουλίου 2020, ο στρατός της Συρίας υποστήριξε τον Εθνικό Στρατό της Λιβύης στέλνοντας αριθμό συστημάτων αεροπορικής άμυνας Pantsir-S από το απόθεμα της Δαμασκού.

    Παρόλο που δεν υπάρχουν επίσημες τοποθετήσεις για το θέμα, υπάρχουν επίσης πληροφορίες ότι τουλάχιστον τρία συστήματα αεροπορικής άμυνας Buk-M2E έχουν φτάσει στη Λιβύη, τα οποία έχουν αποδειχθεί εξαιρετικά ικανά στην αποτελεσματική αντιμετώπιση των τουρκικών επιθετικών αεροσκαφών, εξουδετερώνοντας περισσότερα από 30 drones, σύμφωνα με στα ρωσικά μέσα ενημέρωσης.

    Όλα αυτά τη στιγμή που η Αίγυπτος φέρεται να έχει αναπτύξει συγκροτήματα S-300 στα σύνορα με τη Λιβύη, ως προετοιμασία για την πρώτη χρήση τους εδώ και 40 χρόνια.

    Η Αίγυπτος μπορεί να γίνει η πρώτη χώρα στον κόσμο που άρχισε να χρησιμοποιεί τα σοβιετικά-ρωσικά συστήματα αεροπορικής άμυνας εναντίον αεροσκαφών του ΝΑΤΟ και σε πραγματική μάχη. Σύμφωνα με τα διαθέσιμα δεδομένα, ο αιγυπτιακός στρατός έχει αναπτύξει μια συστοιχία αεροπορικής άμυνας S-300V στα σύνορα με τη Λιβύη, ελέγχοντας πλήρως μια ακτίνα 250 χλμ. Τα τουρκικά F-16, που μπορούν να στοχοποιήσουν βάσεις του LNA, θα είναι ο κύριος στόχος αυτών των συστημάτων.

    Η ανάπτυξη αιγυπτιακών συστημάτων αεροπορικής άμυνας στα σύνορα με τη Λιβύη φέρεται να συνδέεται με τις πρόσφατες ασκήσεις, ωστόσο, η Αίγυπτος δεν κρύβει το γεγονός ότι τα συγκροτήματα θα ενεργοποιηθούν και τεθούν σε πλήρη επιχειρησιακή λειτουργία εάν η Τουρκία προσπαθήσει να οργανώσει την παραμικρή πρόκληση εναντίον του στρατού του Χαφτάρτ.

    Στην Άγκυρα, η οποία γνωρίζει καλά ότι το Κάιρο δεν θα αστειευτεί και θα χρησιμοποιήσει αυτήν την άμυνα κατά των αεροσκαφών το συντομότερο δυνατό, έχει προκληθεί ιδιαίτερη ανησυχία για την αιγυπτιακή κινητοποίηση, ενώ αξίζει να σημειωθεί πως παρά τη λήξη των αιγυπτιακών στρατιωτικών ασκήσεων, οι S-300 έχουν παραμείνει ανεπτυγμένοι σε θέσεις στα λιβυκά σύνορα.

    Μεταξύ άλλων, υπάρχουν στοιχεία ότι η Αίγυπτος ανέπτυξε επίσης συγκροτήματα Buk-M2E στα σύνορα με τη Λιβύη, τα οποία, είχαν προηγουμένως μεταφερθεί στο οπλοστάσιο του LNA από τον συριακό στρατό, όπως αναφέραμε παραπάνω. Πράγματι, μέχρι σήμερα, ο στρατός της Λιβύης είναι καλά εξοπλισμένος με ικανά συστήματα αεροπορικής άμυνας, ώστε να μπορεί να απωθήσει μεγάλες απειλές.

    The Libyan National Army (LNA) arsenal has been equipped with more Russian weapons than Syria, according to multiple sources, and Haftar's troops enjoy the direct and practical support of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.


    According to various sources, as part of aid to the Libyan National Army (LNA) led by Khalifa Haftar, Syria has deployed air defense systems to the North African country's arsenal.

    We are talking about the Pantsir-S and Buk-M2E air defense systems that were previously delivered to the Arab Republic, while both systems have proven their strength against Turkish UAVs.

    READ ALSO
    Sisi, Erdogan, Libya
    Armed Conflict 16.07.2020 - 17: 26103
    Sisi prepares joint LNA-Libyan army - Libyan leaders in Cairo
    According to Southfront, on July 12, 2020, the Syrian army supported the Libyan National Army by sending a number of Pantsir-S air defense systems from Damascus stockpile.

    Although there are no official positions on the matter, there are also reports that at least three Buk-M2E air defense systems have arrived in Libya, which have proven extremely capable of effectively dealing with Turkish attack aircraft, neutralizing more than 30 drones, according to Russian media.

    All this at a time when Egypt is said to have deployed S-300 units on the border with Libya, in preparation for their first use in 40 years.

    Egypt may become the first country in the world to use Soviet-Russian air defense systems against NATO aircraft in a real battle. According to available data, the Egyptian army has deployed an S-300V air defense array on the border with Libya, fully controlling a radius of 250 km. Turkish F-16s, which can target LNA bases, will be the main target of these systems.

    The development of Egyptian air defense systems on the border with Libya is said to be linked to recent exercises, however, Egypt does not hide the fact that the units will be activated and put into full operation if Turkey tries to organize the slightest challenge against it. of Haftart.

    Ankara, which is well aware that Cairo will not joke and will use this defense against the aircraft as soon as possible, has been particularly concerned about the Egyptian mobilization, and it is worth noting that despite the end of the Egyptian military exercises, the S -300 have remained deployed in positions on the Libyan border.

    Among other things, there is evidence that Egypt has also deployed Buk-M2E units on the border with Libya, which had previously been transferred to the LNA arsenal by the Syrian army, as mentioned above. Indeed, to date, the Libyan army is well equipped with adequate air defense systems to repel major threats.

    Intersting, it seems the main supplier of air defense to LNA are Syria and Egypt. Syrian deliveries to Libya is quite degrading already too small Syrian air defense to protect all important objects against Israel and Turkey. it's not surprising, that we now could read, how bad are Russian SAMs, that they could not stop Israeli attacks, turkish drones, etc. They sell them, same as planes. Most probably UAE pay well for them. I wonder, who are the crews there. Syrians or Egyptians?

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:51 pm

    medo wrote:
    Intersting, it seems the main supplier of air defense to LNA are Syria and Egypt. Syrian deliveries to Libya is quite degrading already too small Syrian air defense to protect all important objects against Israel and Turkey. it's not surprising, that we now could read, how bad are Russian SAMs, that they could not stop Israeli attacks, turkish drones, etc. They sell them, same as planes. Most probably UAE pay well for them. I wonder, who are the crews there. Syrians or Egyptians?

    Follow the money. Just as one of the main reasons Turkey is in Libya is money so too no doubt is Syria's.

    Both countries are desperate for foreign currency.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:57 pm

    Syria can't send pantsirs in Libya. They don't have enough to protect their troops with all the available stock, wtf would they send some there ?

    They are either russians or UEA. Russia would happily sell its own pantsir-S1 as they plan to buy more SM variant. Money will be used for more SM to replace the ones being sold.

    Source is southfront. Don't expect any truth in their words.



    Follow the money. Just as one of the main reasons Turkey is in Libya is money so too no doubt is Syria's.

    Both countries are desperate for foreign currency.

    The money Turkey makes with GNA is nothing compare to what they would win if they can extract the gas in the mediteranean and for which they made an agreement with GNA about borders.
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:47 pm

    Isos wrote:Syria can't send pantsirs in Libya. They don't have enough to protect their troops with all the available stock, wtf would they send some there ?

    They are either russians or UEA. Russia would happily sell its own pantsir-S1 as they plan to buy more SM variant. Money will be used for more SM to replace the ones being sold.

    Source is southfront. Don't expect any truth in their words.



    Follow the money. Just as one of the main reasons Turkey is in Libya is money so too no doubt is Syria's.

    Both countries are desperate for foreign currency.

    The money Turkey makes with GNA is nothing compare to what they would win if they can extract the gas in the mediteranean and for which they made an agreement with GNA about borders.

    I'm not sure but wasn't the last Pantsir we saw on a truck on a Russian truck not MAN, so eliminating UAE?

    The GNA money is now and Turkey needs it before the end of this year. The under Med gas is a decade away.
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    Post  Isos Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:51 pm

    I'm not sure but wasn't the last Pantsir we saw on a truck on a Russian truck not MAN, so eliminating UAE?

    Yes it was. That's why I say Russia probably sold its own. Syria doesn't have enough for its own needs. When Turkey used its drones in Idlib SAA needed some time to move pantsirs and buks from the south to cover the area. That's why I don't see them sending their most advanced sytems to protect Haftar. Specially that Israel increases its strike on SAA/Iranians.
    medo
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    Post  medo Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:06 pm

    Most probably Russia deliver those Pantsirs to Syrian army, same as they delivered MiG and Sukhoi jets to SyAF and Syria than part of them send further to Libya. I'm not sure if Syria could sell those jets and complexes, which Russia send as help, but they could rent them. Anyway it was all payed by UAE.

    Anyone have any information regarding Algeria? As I know, they also don't like Turks and their terrorists in Libya. Egypt is talking, but Algeria is quiet and also have vera strong military.
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    Post  Cyberspec Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:15 pm

    medo wrote:Anyone have any information regarding Algeria? As I know, they also don't like Turks and their terrorists in Libya. Egypt is talking, but Algeria is quiet and also have vera strong military.

    They're officially neutral. They don't want a war right next to them and talking to both sides
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    Post  ahmedfire Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:35 pm

    At the beginning ,Algeria and Tunisia were on the side of GNA but now they said that GNA is outdated and elections must take place .

    Both countries -specially Algeria- had suffered a lot from terrorism .Bringing thousands of terrorists from Syria to Libya is considered as a threat to their national security .
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    Post  Isos Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:28 pm

    Algeria's problem is that they have a big desert in the south and terrorists can infiltrate the country from there.

    Turkey aims to expend its influence and they do it with terrorists.

    It's just a matter of time before they get involved one way or another. It doesn't mean they will send the army.

    Tunisia already asked US to reinforce its border with Libya. But they don't have the power to get involved neither politicaly nor military. However they already suffered from terrorist attacks and plenty if their citizen are in Syria as terrorists. I guess they would like them to die there or in Libya rather than come back...
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    Post  ahmedfire Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:37 pm

    Erdogan has visited Tunisia before ,he asked them to give permission to use their lands by Turkish army but Tunisia refused .
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:05 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:Erdogan has visited Tunisia before ,he asked them to give permission to use their lands by Turkish army but Tunisia refused .

    When you see what type of "army" he uses... you understand Tunisia.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:44 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Anyway I don't understand LNA side. Turkey doesn't hide the fact they support GNA with terrorists. Egyptian air force could wipe out turkish systems (drones, AD, vehicles, cargo ships) in one attack and probably end the war. Turkey isn't a major power. They have nothing to threat anyone really. Just attack them like they attack you.

    This is true.  However, we need to be very careful and have all the ground intelligence ahead of time before sending any of our expensive aircraft into the hot zone.  We don't want to lose any of our aircraft, not a single MiG-35 or Rafale or even an F-16.  So a lot of the slamming needs to be done at standoff ranges or at high altitude, provided the rumors of the turkeys bringing in their S-400 isn't true.

    So either way, any offensive by Egypt needs to be VERY WELL planned, efficiently executed and performed with 0 casualties as well as be effective enough to make changes on the ground for the LNA grunts to advance as the GNA retreats.  So on top of the precise plan and execution of a military action by Egypt, there also needs to be a comprehensive plan with the LNA ground units for advancing at the right time and what areas to move into and good comms between them and the EAF command and structure.  In other words, this can't be a half ass mission put together at the last minute or it can turn ugly.

    No Egyptian troops at all inside Libya or in Sirte or even Benghazi until maybe when the GNA is flushed back far enough and the LNA has taken up positions which would make it hard for them to retake any ground from the LNA.  Then and maybe then I would send in Egyptian special forces by C-130s and have them take control of critical outposts in Sirte and take command of the LNA army as they would be able to better communicate with the Egyptian command and control as to the intel and status of moving enemy assets on the ground.

    This way it's not a long and drawn out affair for us since we also have our hands full with Ethiopia we will have to deal with pretty soon (too bad the Su-35s aren't already in house since those would be perfect for that endeavor, but that's for another thread and another day so I digress) but most of this mission here can be well executed with all 3 of our main fighters in the F-16s with GBU-10s, 12s, 24s, 31s and 32s and even AGM-65 Mavericks and AGM-88 HARMs as well as the Rafales and their AASMs and SCALPs and with SPECTRA, they should be the first to move in and reek havoc on all ground ECMs the turks might have escorting the GNA convoys and kill all their comms and then level them off with Hammers and Paveways and then send in the MiG-35s to finish them off into crispy critters with a bunch of Kh-38s and be done with it.

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    Post  ahmedfire Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:04 pm

    Today LNA conducted a test launch of the P-15 Termit anti-ship missile.

    Libyan Crisis #2 - Page 9 Edt8ee10


    P-18 radar spotted in Libya to detect Turkish aircraft

    https://en.topcor.ru/15640-v-livii-zamechena-rls-p-18-dlja-obnaruzhenija-tureckoj-aviacii.html

    Libyan Crisis #2 - Page 9 15951310

    Libyan Crisis #2 - Page 9 15951311

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:38 pm

    Until the GNA can get the oil flowing this lack of money will be a growing problem, so very unhappy but trapped operatives.

    The food and water (plus sanitation) needed by all those GNA and terrorist fighters strung out in their technicals along roads must be a big burden as well.


    Spriter
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    ·
    43m
    The crisis hit
    Turkey is reducing the salaries of the armed fighters of the pro-"Army" who have traveled to Libya to fight alongside the Al-Wefaq GNA government, from $ 2,000 to $ 800.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:50 pm


    2000$ to 800$?

    Damn, that's harsh lol1

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:58 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    2000$ to 800$?

    Damn, that's harsh lol1


    It's worse pay than the Idlib turd-burglars are getting in the Azerbaijan. To die fighting for less than $5,000... clown
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    Post  Gomig-21 Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:29 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Until the GNA can get the oil flowing this lack of money will be a growing problem, so very unhappy but trapped operatives.

    The food and water (plus sanitation) needed by all those GNA and terrorist fighters strung out in their technicals along roads must be a big burden as well.

    Hopefully that will make them easy fodder for EAF jets to light up and crispy fry them accordingly.  LNA & Egypt and whomever else want to take part need to preempt this expected offensive by the GNA.

    If they wait until the fighting reaches Sirte or even gets anywhere close, they'll have lost their chance IMO.  They need to end this soon and way before they reach Sirte or Jufra by any proximity than they already are.

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    Post  Cyberspec Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:58 pm

    For some reason, they haven't attacked the columns yet
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:08 am

    Cyberspec wrote:For some reason, they haven't attacked the columns yet

    Neither side wants to get the International blame for setting this shitshow off.

    If I was the GNA I'd be looking at other less exposed areas to more quietly move forward into. A bit like the Ukrainian Army did in the grey zone.
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:58 am

    ahmedfire wrote:Today LNA conducted a test launch of the P-15 Termit anti-ship missile.


    Bit of a PR job. After a few hundred meters it nose dived into the sea. Video at link Very Happy

    Libya Monitoring
    🇱🇾
    @Libya_OSINT
    ·
    7h
    19 July: Video of #LNA P-15 Termit / Styx / SS-N-2 missile ‘test’ launch in position 32.0174361, 24.7633389, IVO Zawiyat Zanzur. Nosediving suggests no guidance control. Launch largely symbolic and serving little military purpose. #Libya


    https://twitter.com/Libya_OSINT/status/1285040813672718336
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    Post  Isos Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:48 am

    It was launched from a modified launcher which can explain why the missile failed. Primitive soviet technology from the 50-60s. It's softwares/hardware must probably oblige a launch from a good angle. The missile is also very old.

    Anyway it is still dangerous for the turkish frigates operating at visual range from the coast.

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