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    Libyan Crisis #2

    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire on Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:03 pm



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    medo
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    Post  medo on Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:00 pm

    https://fighterjetsworld.com/latest-news/french-rafale-jets-allegedly-attack-and-destroyed-turkish-air-defense-system-in-al-watiya-airbase/22648/

    As we have reported yesterday that Unknown Foreign Airforce Rafale Jets Allegedly Attack Turkish Targets In Al-Wataya Airbase.

    France and Egypt are the two countries within the range of the base that possess this type of aircraft.

    Now according to 218News, French Rafale destroyed Turkish air defense system in Al-Watiya airbase.

    218News learned from an informed source that a series of strikes targeting Al-Wataya Airbase on Saturday night were carried out by a French Rafale fighter from about 70 km away.

    The same source revealed that the airstrikes targeted two Turkish defense systems that were inside the base, one of which was completely destroyed, while the other wasn’t, indicating that the range of these air systems is 40 km, a difference of 30 km from the range that the base was bombed at.

    Satellite images from Sentinel-2L1C show signs of destruction probably resulted from the recent airstrikes targeted Turkish military equipments including MIM-23 Hawk AD systems in al-Watiya air base in Western Libya.

    This becoming even more interesting. Now it becoming clear, that it was not LNA and not even UAE, who attack Turkish base, but France. So it was a NATO member who bomb a base of another NATO member in Libya. Now we only have to wait, that Greece send their contingent to Libya, to support LNA against Turkey.

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    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire on Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:17 pm

    But France has denied any responsibility over that operation .
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:35 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:But France has denied any responsibility over that operation .

    It does seem very unlikely they were French. Note the "allegedly".

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:39 pm

    Your source is questionnable.

    French have no interest in attacking Turks directly when Egypt or UAE can do the job. The HAWK is an outdated system, any modern jet with stand off munitions can destroy it.
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:49 am

    It was probably SAA who destroyed Turkish Hawk battery at Watiyah. SAA deployed MiG-29 and Su-24 to Jufra. From there they shoot stand off missiles which out ranges Hawk. S
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    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:09 am

    According to a Turkish newspaper...

    Turkey is proposing to deploy the S400 anti-aircraft weapon system in Libya
    https://twitter.com/GeopoliticsN/status/1281214350703890433


    The S-400 seems unlikely at this stage, but they have brought in fresh stuff in the past couple of days

    #Turkish military equipment leaving Mitiga airport in #Tripoli.

    Libyan Crisis #2 - Page 6 Ecb-raVX0AE_XRU?format=jpg&name=900x900
    Libyan Crisis #2 - Page 6 Ecb-raaXkAE3TSf?format=jpg&name=medium

    https://twitter.com/alkaraisili/status/1280991175776841730
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:32 am

    Cyberspec wrote:According to a Turkish newspaper...

    Turkey is proposing to deploy the S400 anti-aircraft weapon system in Libya
    https://twitter.com/GeopoliticsN/status/1281214350703890433


    The S-400 seems unlikely at this stage, but they have brought in fresh stuff in the past couple of days

    #Turkish military equipment leaving Mitiga airport in #Tripoli.

    Libyan Crisis #2 - Page 6 Ecb-raVX0AE_XRU?format=jpg&name=900x900
    Libyan Crisis #2 - Page 6 Ecb-raaXkAE3TSf?format=jpg&name=medium

    https://twitter.com/alkaraisili/status/1280991175776841730

    Turkey will never activate S-400. If Erdogan does that he has no more leverage over Russia. Russia would go after Idlib city again. As long as Erdogan don't activate S-400 he has Putin by the balls by dangling S-400 over Putin's face as a low hanging fruit.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:18 am

    Turkey will never activate S-400. If Erdogan does that he has no more leverage over Russia. Russia would go after Idlib city again. As long as Erdogan don't activate S-400 he has Putin by the balls by dangling S-400 over Putin's face as a low hanging fruit.

    Why do you keep repeating this bullshit?

    Turkey bought the S-400 system from Russia... Putin could care less whether they activate it or not... why would that make any difference to Putin... Russia has been paid for the S-400 systems Turkey took delivery of (take note France... when someone buys something you are supposed to deliver it to them for their use)...

    Turkey could do what they like with the S-400 systems they bought... they might use the individual missile warheads as paperweights for their offices, or they might form them in a circle and play cowboys and indians with them... I doubt Putin could care less... the sale has been made and the products have been delivered... and the damage has been done... Turkey is not getting the F-35s they paid for and relations with the US are shit.

    Whether the missile systems are operational or not is irrelevant, but they tested them and said their performance was better than promised.

    What is stopping Turkey from using S-400s?

    What are you thinking is going to happen when Turkey activates their S-400s? Does Putin get a cookie?

    The money Turkey paid for the S-400s is already in Russian bank accounts and they are talking about follow up agreements regarding new missiles and other things...
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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:25 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Turkey will never activate S-400. If Erdogan does that he has no more leverage over Russia. Russia would go after Idlib city again. As long as Erdogan don't activate S-400 he has Putin by the balls by dangling S-400 over Putin's face as a low hanging fruit.

    Why do you keep repeating this bullshit?
    He sees it as his role in life. Wish he would inflict it somewhere else.

    Unless Erdogan can give the S-400 some decent SORAD its going to be vulnerable in Libya. Much more valuable back home and anyway it seems to have been activated.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:03 pm

    S-400 protect Erdogan. He will never send them to protect its puppets in Lybia.

    Like I said before s-400 has 24 ready to launch missiles which is very easy to overwhelm with drones and missiles for the LNA side if they don't destroy it before they deploy it.
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    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:47 am

    There is some speculation that Turkey might try an amphibious landing in the rear of Sirte with air support from bases on the Turkish mainland and airbases in Northern Cyprus to break the deadlock. If successful, it would negate a potential Egyptian intervention to keep Sirte in LNA hands

    BTW, Egypt has ordered the Bastion Coastal Defence system but it hasn't arrived yet
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:30 am

    Cyberspec wrote:There is some speculation that Turkey might try an amphibious landing in the rear of Sirte with air support from bases on the Turkish mainland and airbases in Northern Cyprus to break the deadlock. If successful, it would negate a potential Egyptian intervention to keep Sirte in LNA hands

    BTW, Egypt has ordered the Bastion Coastal Defence system but it hasn't arrived yet

    Sirte / Jufra / Sabha front is Egypt's red line. Even if Turkey takes Sirte, that will trigger a war between Turkey and Egypt and it won't be pretty. Turkey has a young war age population and staggering inflation. The only way out for Turkey is war. And war it will be. The nomad war blood flows in the veins of Turks. Turks may dress modern clothes, but deep down they are still the nomad warriors.
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:32 am

    Cyberspec wrote:There is some speculation that Turkey might try an amphibious landing in the rear of Sirte with air support from bases on the Turkish mainland and airbases in Northern Cyprus to break the deadlock. If successful, it would negate a potential Egyptian intervention to keep Sirte in LNA hands

    BTW, Egypt has ordered the Bastion Coastal Defence system but it hasn't arrived yet

    SAA has Bastion and SAA is at war with Turkey. IMO Egypt already got Bastion from SAA but kept it secret. There's been plenty of Il-76 flights between Syria and Egypt recently.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:27 am

    Like I said before s-400 has 24 ready to launch missiles which is very easy to overwhelm with drones and missiles for the LNA side if they don't destroy it before they deploy it.

    Even when it has run out of ready to fire missiles, the sensors and equipment that come with it make it a very capable system when used with other systems... the HAWK missiles might not be very modern but a lot of targets don't need modern missiles to destroy... they just need modern systems that can track the targets and direct older missiles to hit the targets.

    S-400 is very mobile too...
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:23 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Like I said before s-400 has 24 ready to launch missiles which is very easy to overwhelm with drones and missiles for the LNA side if they don't destroy it before they deploy it.

    Even when it has run out of ready to fire missiles, the sensors and equipment that come with it make it a very capable system when used with other systems... the HAWK missiles might not be very modern but a lot of targets don't need modern missiles to destroy... they just need modern systems that can track the targets and direct older missiles to hit the targets.

    S-400 is very mobile too...

    Hawks are already destroyed. S-400 would be alone. Its mobility would be nice if there was other AD systems to protect it while reloading but if the enemy is attacking it, if it fires all the 24 missiles the next minute they will just send a su24 armed with dumb bombs.
    medo
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    Post  medo on Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:15 am

    Why on Earth you think, that Turkey will deploy S-400 alone in Libya? If Turkey deploy S-400, there will be a lot of Hawks, Hisars, Korkuts, Zipkins, Atilgans,... around them. Turkey have layered IADS.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:55 am

    medo wrote:Why on Earth you think, that Turkey will deploy S-400 alone in Libya? If Turkey deploy S-400, there will be a lot of Hawks, Hisars, Korkuts, Zipkins, Atilgans,... around them. Turkey have layered IADS.

    S-400 is not connected to their IADS. HAWKS are destroyed. Hisars are not even in production. The rest would be useless against low rcs targets like missiles or suicide drones.

    The projection capability of Turkey is very low. They can't send half of their AD in Libya. Also they don't have Nebo radars that increase the effectiveness of s-400. They don't even have a good radar picture of the zone because they mainly use their ships to monitor Libya.

    If you want to protect S400 against PGM/drones you need pantsir or tor connected to the s-400.
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    Post  medo on Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:11 pm



    Korkut is operational and first batteries are already in Libya.

    Libyan Crisis #2 - Page 6 Hisar-10

    Libyan Crisis #2 - Page 6 Hisar-11

    Hisar-A SHORAD and Hisar-O medium range SAM are operational and Hisar-U long range SAM is in development. Turkey already deploy Hisar-A and Hisar-O in Syria.

    http://en.c4defence.com/Archive/demir-hisaro-is-deployed-in-syria/10163/1

    President of Defence Industry Dr İsmail Demir announced that Hisar-O Medium Altitude Air Defence Missile System is deployed in Syria.

    Demir speaking to M5 Magazine said, “ We are deploying it in Syria because we have the opinion that HİSAR-O will be more effective due to the range.”.

    Demir shared detailed information about the process in the live broadcast of C4Defence in early May. In summary, the deliveries of Hisar-O, which is developed to defeat the medium-altitude threat.

    Demir said Hisar-O started to enter the Turkish Armed Forces inventory and to be used partially. The Hisar-A and Hisar-O procurement plan, which is aimed to be supplied in equal quantities, has also changed due to the experience gained from the field. Your need in the field focused on the medium-altitude air defence system. Priority will be given to Hisar-O, whose deliveries have already begun during the procurement process. ”

    What is Hisar O?

    To meet the medium-altitude air defence needs of the Land Forces Command, it will fulfil the task of making the threat ineffective at medium altitude within the scope of point and regional air defence. HİSAR-O will be used in distributed architecture, battalion and battery structure.

    HİSAR-A is designed to neutralize fixed and rotary-wing aircraft, cruise missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles and air-to-land missiles up to 15 km range for air defence of moving units and critical facilities.

    Within the scope of the air defence of fixed troops and critical facilities, HİSAR-O ensures that fixed and rotary-wing aircraft, cruise missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles and air-to-land missiles within a range up to 25 km.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:12 pm

    They started hisar production this year and have few of them.

    The rest are guns. I wouldn't bet on them for shooting down small missiles. Just look how their upgraded hawk didn't see anything during the attack, what do you expect of those SPAAG ?

    Hisar is also their first AD locally made. I wouldn't trust it neither to protect an S-400 against missiles too. That's a 500 million $ system. To use it you better have 12-24 fighters connected with it in a base next to it and proven systems that can destroy PGM around. Right now only tor and pantsir are proven to do that.
    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire on Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:17 pm


    If they deployed S-400 , Egypt will send 50 or 100 armed drone and will follow that with a squadron of fighters to destroy it , no time to re-load the system .
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    Post  ahmedfire on Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:21 pm

    The army just released a video of the naval part of Hasm-2020 maneuver on the west coast near to Libya , Ka-52 is in action .

    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:21 pm

    medo wrote:

    Korkut is operational and first batteries are already in Libya.

    Libyan Crisis #2 - Page 6 Hisar-10

    Libyan Crisis #2 - Page 6 Hisar-11

    Hisar-A SHORAD and Hisar-O medium range SAM are operational and Hisar-U long range SAM is in development. Turkey already deploy Hisar-A and Hisar-O in Syria.

    http://en.c4defence.com/Archive/demir-hisaro-is-deployed-in-syria/10163/1

    President of Defence Industry Dr İsmail Demir announced that Hisar-O Medium Altitude Air Defence Missile System is deployed in Syria.

    Demir speaking to M5 Magazine said, “ We are deploying it in Syria because we have the opinion that HİSAR-O will be more effective due to the range.”.

    Demir shared detailed information about the process in the live broadcast of C4Defence in early May. In summary, the deliveries of Hisar-O, which is developed to defeat the medium-altitude threat.

    Demir said Hisar-O started to enter the Turkish Armed Forces inventory and to be used partially. The Hisar-A and Hisar-O procurement plan, which is aimed to be supplied in equal quantities, has also changed due to the experience gained from the field. Your need in the field focused on the medium-altitude air defence system. Priority will be given to Hisar-O, whose deliveries have already begun during the procurement process. ”

    What is Hisar O?

    To meet the medium-altitude air defence needs of the Land Forces Command, it will fulfil the task of making the threat ineffective at medium altitude within the scope of point and regional air defence. HİSAR-O will be used in distributed architecture, battalion and battery structure.

    HİSAR-A is designed to neutralize fixed and rotary-wing aircraft, cruise missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles and air-to-land missiles up to 15 km range for air defence of moving units and critical facilities.

    Within the scope of the air defence of fixed troops and critical facilities, HİSAR-O ensures that fixed and rotary-wing aircraft, cruise missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles and air-to-land missiles within a range up to 25 km.

    Turkey don't have technology. Hell, even their TB2 drones have to import EO from Canada. Turkey made things don't work. Have you ever seen a Turkey made smartphone or car? No you haven't.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:12 pm

    Sources in the African Command of the US Armed Forces (AFRICOM) provided exclusive information and confirmed the information that on July 5, 2020, the Al-Vatiya base in Libya was attacked. The facility is located 130 km south-west of Tripoli and Turkish radars, air defense systems and electronic warfare systems were based there.

    According to sources, the operation was carried out by the UAE Air Force and supported by Egypt and France. Cairo provided its airfield to Abu Dhabi aviation. At the same time, Paris refused to direct its Air Force to strike directly because of the already tense relations with Ankara, because France and Turkey are NATO allies and this could greatly harm the Alliance. But the French assisted the operation with their intelligence, and also insured UAE pilots with search and rescue teams in helicopters located at the junction of the borders of Libya, Tunisia and Algeria.

    Three days before the operation, the UAE transferred the A330-243 MRTT tanker to Al-Nagib base in Egypt, where there were already four fighters of this country's air force.

    As a result of the air strike, the infrastructure of the Al-Vatiya base was seriously damaged. The Turks lost their radar, MIM-23 Hawk air defense systems and Koral electronic warfare systems. 3-4 people were injured. There were no drones at the time of the attack. UAE Air Force used missiles with a range of more than 90 km.

    The blow was delivered at a time when the military of Tripoli and Ankara were developing a plan to take control of the port city of Sirte and the Al-Jufra base in central Libya. Moreover, the base "Al-Vatiya" was given primary importance to ensure the offensive.

    https://topcor.ru/15530-francuzy-prinjali-uchastie-v-nalete-na-tureckuju-pvo-v-livii.html
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:29 pm

    Which missile did they use ? Only one with such range would be the Scalp.

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