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    Libyan Crisis #2

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:43 pm

    The US Marine task force LHD5 has been in the Med somewhere off Libya for a week now. Its Harriers are probably just about the best 'air force' in the area and its DDGs a capable SAM operation.

    Looks like it will stay there a while, just in case.
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    Post  AbdulhamidtheSecond on Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:26 pm

    https://twitter.com/VivaRevolt/status/1276127061292318721?s=20

    A report of bombing of Jufra from an Arab source. Needs confirmation
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    Post  AbdulhamidtheSecond on Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:37 pm

    Libyan Crisis #2 20200610

    Also capt the target side of whom consists countries like above
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:22 pm

    Keep up, I have posted it here a couple of times.

    Its a major reason Ghadaffi copt it, he wanted to pay off all the 'ex' French colonies in Africa's debts in the BoF, relieving them of about 750M Euro interest and a lot of power. Its why the French were in the front of the queue to attack.

    The other reason was that he wanted to abandon selling oil in $ as virtually all his customers wanted to pay in Euro. No way the US would allow that so, like Saddam who was OK to the US until he tried the same stunt, he was eliminated.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:42 pm

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    Post  George1 on Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:58 am

    Joint Statement by France, Germany and Italy (25 Jun. 2020)

    In light of the growing risks of a deterioration of the situation in Libya and regional escalation, France, Germany and Italy call on all Libyan parties to immediately and unconditionally cease fighting and to suspend the ongoing military build-up throughout the country.

    They also urge foreign actors to end all interference and to fully respect the arms embargo established by the United Nations Security Council. They encourage the swift conclusion of negotiations within the 5+5 military working group under the auspices of UNSMIL to enable the signature of a sustainable and credible ceasefire agreement.

    This is an essential element to create the necessary climate for the concrete resumption of inter-Libyan political dialogue which will enable a sustainable resolution to the conflict. All efforts in this regard, including the Egyptian initiative announced on 6 June, must be encouraged. Any initiative in support of a cease-fire agreement and of negotiated political settlement of the Libyan crisis must be fully inclusive and be firmly anchored to the architecture of the Berlin Process which remains the only viable framework.

    https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/country-files/libya/news/2020/article/libya-joint-statement-by-france-germany-and-italy-25-jun-2020
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:34 pm

    LHD5 off Libya. The USS Bataan Amphibious Ready Group (ARG) with embarked 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU)

    Libyan Crisis #2 SJ-qc1xu?format=jpg&name=small
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:06 pm

    UAE Pantsir? Can they fire when they are on the back of a moving transporter?

    MiddleEastWatch
    @MiddleEastWatc1
    ·
    11h
    Video showing 2 Russian pantsir systems in Ajdabiya on their way toward Sirte. One of the systems seem to be activated to be used as a protection for the road due to fear of being targeted by Turkish UAV as it happened previously.


    https://twitter.com/MiddleEastWatc1/status/1276727834199851011 (VIDEO embedded here)


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    11h
    There are reports that the “Mercenaries” that are taking over the Libyan fields in Libya are not the Russian Wagner group, but Russian military personal that have been deployed to Libya in the last previous days. This is a huge escalation in the Libyan conflict.
    ·
    13h

    If we are to see a direct involvement in Libya, GNA and Turkey will have to convince America that they will be getting a big benefit by hiring their companies etc.. Air bases will not be enough to get the US involved, because Trump will only see it as a waste of money.

    Even though American intelligence agencies have informed the White House of Russia’s threat due to their mission to expand into the African continent, Trump have stayed in strict policies to not get involved unless there is a direct benefit. It is important to remember on who is in charge in the White House today. US president Trump’s foreign policy have always been to not intervene in other countries unless the US interests are under threat or they get paid to do so. Russia has never been a threat to him.

    The US State Department:
    Al-Sarraj was informed of our rejection of the attack, to which the Accord and Turkish government is preparing on Sirte.

    The US hypocrisy re Syria is palpable

    MiddleEastWatch
    @MiddleEastWatc1
    ·
    21h
    The US Embassy: The longer it takes to keep the Libyan oil hostage to foreign interests, the longer it takes for Libya to be able to recover economically and pay public sector salaries.

    The American Embassy: Enabling the National Oil Corporation to resume its operations is a prerequisite for the Libyan consensus, which has become an urgent need about the equitable distribution of the country's wealth.

    Allowing the National Oil Corporation to immediately resume its operations is a critical step to re-establishing Libyan sovereignty and a decisive guarantee to prevent further external manipulation and military action.

    22h
    Breaking: The American Embassy in Libya expresses its deep concern about the "shameful" interference of Wagner and other foreign mercenaries against the facilities and staff of the Engineering oil fields in Libya.



    Two events probably related

    MiddleEastWatch
    @MiddleEastWatc1
    ·
    Jun 26
    A spokesman for the Libyan GNA forces:
    More than 11 flights of Russian cargo planes landed at Qardabiya airport, south of Sirte.

    GNA spokesperson: 6 Pantsir vehicles arrived to Sirte from Russia.


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    Libyan Crisis #2 EbejI0UXgAMdv_b?format=jpg&name=medium

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    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:31 pm

    Man you people are so easily fooled by twitter.

    No, no Russian forces in Libya.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:09 pm

    That's a pro-GNA account. Nothing reliable there.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:13 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Man you people are so easily fooled by twitter.

    No, no Russian forces in Libya.

    Just reporting what is said out there. Not sure how you can be so emphatic about it tho'. I'd say that there is a very high probability that Russians there, too good an opportunity to miss, but who and what they are up to is just something we may never find out.

    Anyway, good if everyone believes it. Less chance of war.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/libya-oil-russia/libyas-noc-says-russian-mercenaries-entered-oilfield-blocked-restart-of-output-idUSD5N2BW02F

    UAE Pantsir?


    Last edited by JohninMK on Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Link added)
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:14 pm

    Isos wrote:That's a pro-GNA account. Nothing reliable there.

    Yes I know that, but its what they say and there nmay be truth in it, the best propaganda always does..
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:57 pm

    What would be the point to send your soldier without acknowledging it and risking their life to turkish drones ?

    Russian MOD never risk its soldiers lifes. They do things correctly.

    If they go there they will set up a base, coordinate it with egypt to connect their stuff with their radars and launch some cruise missiles to make it official...
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:54 pm

    Isos wrote:What would be the point to send your soldier without acknowledging it and risking their life to turkish drones ?

    Russian MOD never risk its soldiers lifes. They do things correctly.

    If they go there they will set up a base, coordinate it with egypt to connect their stuff with their radars and launch some cruise missiles to make it official...

    Yes they do lol, No military is innocent in that fact.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:07 pm

    Isos wrote:What would be the point to send your soldier without acknowledging it and risking their life to turkish drones ?

    Russian MOD never risk its soldiers lifes. They do things correctly.

    If they go there they will set up a base, coordinate it with egypt to connect their stuff with their radars and launch some cruise missiles to make it official...

    Best laugh of the day. Thanks
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:28 pm

    Special ops apart, when they deploy soldiers they don't hide it and make it clear they are russian soldiers so that no one touches them.

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:36 am

    And yes, TOR and Pantsir can fire and operate while moving... not quite as accurate with gunfire, but missiles accurate enough...



    BTW Amusing image with the Russian flags on the map... unusual there are no French or German or UK or American flags there...
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:25 am

    Isos wrote:Special ops apart, when they deploy soldiers they don't hide it and make it clear they are russian soldiers so that no one touches them.

    That doesn't stop them from being killed from time to time. You gotta be naive to think the only time soldiers from any country die is when they are reported by the host government. Russia much like other stuff conceals that information.

    Hell, the Russians still won't come clean about their real causality numbers from WW2 and that was over 70 years ago and you think they are being honest about modern times?. Again all countries do this not just Russia. This isn't something unique to anyone.

    Now, this doesn't mean Russia sends its guys into a meat grinder, but they do put their men in iffy situations if they deem it's worth the risk and guess what that's normal for every country.
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    Post  Isos on Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:51 am

    I'm not saying they hide deaths. I say when they deploy official troops they don't hide that fact.

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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:54 am

    Isos wrote:I'm not saying they hide deaths. I say when they deploy official troops they don't hide that fact.

    You seem to be hung up on "official" troops whilst Serg and I are not and I don't know where you got it from.

    All my quoted Twitter post said was "Russian military personal" and I stand by my statement that they could well be there, indeed we should expect them to be there, in the background, advisors etc.
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    Post  Isos on Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:03 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    Isos wrote:I'm not saying they hide deaths. I say when they deploy official troops they don't hide that fact.

    You seem to be hung up on "official" troops whilst Serg and I are not and I don't know where you got it from.

    All my quoted Twitter post said was "Russian military personal" and I stand by my statement that they could well be there, indeed we should expect them to be there, in the background, advisors etc.

    That would special ops doing secret ops and not in the spotlights... whuch very likely.

    But they don't take oil fields in a country where their governement said they have no troops.

    Anyway US would be the first to signal such movement of russian military if they happened. And they didn't so the source is totally biased.

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:17 pm

    I remember plenty of American citizens in America openly volunteering to go and fight Serbia to save Kosovo... but when they realised that is against international law they stopped reporting it... I suspect the internet will be purged of such stories by now... the point is that despite US contracts with mercenaries, it is generally a pretty seedy and secret area of conflict.

    Russia might have special forces in Libya, and you can put all the Highly Likely sauce on that that you like, but you need more evidence than that for it to be fact.

    The facts are that the west fucked that country up and ram raided it from a modern almost western society to a rat infested shithole where ISIS and Al Quada are in charge in most places.... and that Russian and Iranian forces openly went to Syria to solve a similar war crime perpetrated by the west, so it is possible they might have some forces there investigating what is happening on the ground, but to call them Russian forces is a huge leap and you need proof to back that up.

    Suggesting some mercenaries constitute Russian forces is bullshit. Blackwater had all sorts of nationalities working for them and when they screwed up... either committing war crimes or getting caught and heading home in a body bag there was no mention of them being US military forces and their deaths were never included in any US forces stats...
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:12 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Isos wrote:I'm not saying they hide deaths. I say when they deploy official troops they don't hide that fact.

    You seem to be hung up on "official" troops whilst Serg and I are not and I don't know where you got it from.

    All my quoted Twitter post said was "Russian military personal" and I stand by my statement that they could well be there, indeed we should expect them to be there, in the background, advisors etc.

    Difference is that we are correct and you and Sieg are not.  Sieg is a known liar and we all called him out on it.  You can believe whatever BS you want but so far, we are all aware of it and Russia admits to what they do unlike certain players (UK, US, etc).

    If Russian troops were actually in Libya, we would know. Much like how Russian troops moved around in Crimea quickly and we all knew about it. But all of a sudden with this, its silence. No pictures, no insignias, nothing. In an age were cameras catch nearly everything.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:44 pm

    GarryB wrote:I remember plenty of American citizens in America openly volunteering to go and fight Serbia to save Kosovo... but when they realised that is against international law they stopped reporting it... I suspect the internet will be purged of such stories by now... the point is that despite US contracts with mercenaries, it is generally a pretty seedy and secret area of conflict.

    What's humorous is there's Yugoslob bootlickers on this forum that praise and cape for Uncle Sham every chance they get, and shit on Russia every chance they get, Hell they even outright whitewash Reagan's failed legacy....yes the same guy who supported beta-Al Qaeda/ISIS (Afghan Mujahadeen), which would find their way to Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo. I call their mental illness bottom-bitch (gimp) Stockholm syndrome (BBSS) or BS in stereo. Embarassed  Razz

    miketheterrible wrote:If Russian troops were actually in Libya, we would know. Much like how Russian troops moved around in Crimea quickly and we all knew about it. But all of a sudden with this, its silence. No pictures, no insignias, nothing. In an age were cameras catch nearly everything.

    There was a full fledged base in Sevastopol, which predated the Maidan Crisis by 14 years (the military base agreement at the time was signed in 1997), the Russian military had some sort of military base of operation in Crimea for at least 200 years up until that point.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:46 pm

    yes, but even in cases of Syria and what not, they were not shy of moving troops there. Actually, in Russia's history since end of Soviet Union, they were open about their operations. The rest is hearsay with no actual evidence but claims from "Sources".

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