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    US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:03 pm

    Ah KVS for a guy who talks about propaganda you love to post your own.

    1. Iranian Anti-Aircraft batteries were on high alert and a general alert was in fact issued to all civilian airliners in Iran. So yes Iranian Anti Aircraft crews were on post and activating looking for any potential targets.

    2. Not really you have to braindead and a propagandist on the Russian side to say something so idiotic. There are a number of scenarios a missile could have hit the plane.

    3. Also, you clearly don't know shit, The Iranians comb and check aircraft leaving and coming in. So while it is possible some CIA guys managed to set a bomb up the problem with that retarded theory is.

    If a bomb exploded in a pressured air cabin the plane would have literally imploded completely in the air, the plane was spotted going down intact but on fire into the ground.

    Nevermind that was a 787 those things aren't the 737 Model, they can return to Airport with one intact engine and consider the plane was about four minutes away from the Airpot mechanical failure doesn't seem likely. 787's have redundancy systems that eliminated all of the 737's problems.  

    4. Data and reports so far are showing Iranian by mistake shot it down, the plane should not have been in the air Iran ordered all civilian aircraft to be grounded, Trump said, he thinks Iran took it out by mistake and given what's known so far that does seem to be the case.

    5. No MH17 was Shot down by the rebels but Ukraine did knowingly send the plane to their deaths hoping the rebels would shoot it down. So I will agree and say the ultimate blame rests on Kiev.

    6. Perhaps but that is nothing but conjecture.

    To date it seems Iran thought it was a US military aircraft and attacked it, again the plane should not have been airborne and Iran stated "they told the plane to divert back to the airport but it never arrived". This supports the fact really, they realized a civilian airliner was in the air and told it to return right away but sadly the SAM crew didn't know this and acted.

    It was an accident, an unfortunate one yes but Iran did not purposly take the plane out. Someone in Iran fucked up and it resulted in this, Accidents happen. I do not hold it against Iran.
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:45 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:5. No MH17 was Shot down by the rebels but Ukraine did knowingly send the plane to their deaths hoping the rebels would shoot it down. So I will agree and say the ultimate blame rests on Kiev.

    Bullshit.  Putting the Iran crash aside for a minute, this MH17 crap is a propaganda claim and there is plenty of evidence to show that its just another of a long line of US/NATOista lies.  Ukropi BUK were active in the area and the missile debris recovered is from a missile that has been stored in Ukro warehouse since manufacture.  The Russians don't use this model anymore so the idea of a Russian BUK TEL trundling across the border, firing a single shot, and then trundling back again is FUCKING NONSENSE, despite what fabricated photo "evidence" the Banderites choose to concoct.

    Ukros shot down MH17 and these lies are a pathetic attempt at diverting blame on to Russia & Ukr rebels.  Add it to the long list of agitprop BS concocted by the West and pointed at Russias way (like the Skripal affair, "state sponsored" sports doping and CW use in Syria).
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:48 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:5. No MH17 was Shot down by the rebels but Ukraine did knowingly send the plane to their deaths hoping the rebels would shoot it down. So I will agree and say the ultimate blame rests on Kiev.

    Bullshit.  Putting the Iran crash aside for a minute, this MH17 crap is a propaganda claim and there is plenty of evidence to show that its just another of a long line of US/NATOista lies.  Ukropi BUK were active in the area and the missile debris recovered is from a missile that has been stored in Ukro warehouse since manufacture.  The Russians don't use this model anymore so the idea of a Russian BUK TEL trundling across the border, firing a single shot, and then trundling back again is FUCKING NONSENSE, despite what fabricated photo "evidence" the Banderites choose to concoct.

    Ukros shot down MH17 and these lies are a pathetic attempt at diverting blame on to Russia & Ukr rebels.  Add it to the long list of agitprop BS concocted by the West and pointed at Russias way (like the Skripal affair, "state sponsored" sports doping and CW use in Syria).

    Call it BS all you want but the facts don't support that.

    I know Russia had anything to do with Skirpal btw.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:16 am

    kvs wrote:Washington once again used some civilian aircraft to frame up a demonization of Iran.   It is now being claimed that an Iranian Tor missile
    shot down the Ukrainian airliner.

    1) There was no aerial assault on Iran when it launched the attack on US bases in Iran.   Why would Tor missiles be on hair trigger
    alert?  

    2) The only way an Iranian Tor missile would be launched at the airliner is if there were CIA stooges operating it following
    Washington's orders.  

    3) It is much more likely that there was a bomb on board the Ukrainian airliner planted by the CIA directly or indirectly through
    the use of its Kiev regime stooges.

    4) Washington has a clear motive to frame Iran with an attack on a civilian airliner to dilute the US crime of shooting down
    Iran Air flight 655.  Trumpy is already talking about the poor civilians.  POS.  Trumpy's predecessors gave awards to the
    clowns who shot down flght 655.

    5) It is now beyond any doubt that MH17 was shot down by Kiev regime forces.   There is a clear propaganda war pattern
    where "poor civilians in a poor civilian airliner" are created and then used as war and hate propaganda.  Recall all the demonic
    portrayals of Putin for supposedly shooting down MH17 (without motive and in a ludicrous fashion).

    6) The hate propaganda using civilians is nothing new: "remember the Lusitania!" is the same BS.  The US has a motive to
    smear Iran with a faked up killing of civilians to dilute its own murder of Soleimani which is not popular around the world.




    Well the typical deinformation campeign somtypical of dictatorships collapses, when you have angry civilians postimg rocket debris from the crash site on Instagram...

    The aircraft was shot down.
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    Post  par far on Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:46 am

    The US did not get the response from Iran it was looking for, so they did this fake attack to blame Iran or maybe it was already planned, regardless of what happened.

    Iran has nothing to gain with shooting down a civilian aircraft, Iran will most likely lose money from this because now civilian aircraft will avoid Iranian airspace.

    It was also Ukrainian airline and Ukraine is a US vassal state so it will do, whatever the US tells them to say and do.
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    Post  par far on Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:51 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Ah KVS for a guy who talks about propaganda you love to post your own.

    1. Iranian Anti-Aircraft batteries were on high alert and a general alert was in fact issued to all civilian airliners in Iran. So yes Iranian Anti Aircraft crews were on post and activating looking for any potential targets.

    2. Not really you have to braindead and a propagandist on the Russian side to say something so idiotic. There are a number of scenarios a missile could have hit the plane.

    3. Also, you clearly don't know shit, The Iranians comb and check aircraft leaving and coming in. So while it is possible some CIA guys managed to set a bomb up the problem with that retarded theory is.

    If a bomb exploded in a pressured air cabin the plane would have literally imploded completely in the air, the plane was spotted going down intact but on fire into the ground.

    Nevermind that was a 787 those things aren't the 737 Model, they can return to Airport with one intact engine and consider the plane was about four minutes away from the Airpot mechanical failure doesn't seem likely. 787's have redundancy systems that eliminated all of the 737's problems.  

    4. Data and reports so far are showing Iranian by mistake shot it down, the plane should not have been in the air Iran ordered all civilian aircraft to be grounded, Trump said, he thinks Iran took it out by mistake and given what's known so far that does seem to be the case.

    5. No MH17 was Shot down by the rebels but Ukraine did knowingly send the plane to their deaths hoping the rebels would shoot it down. So I will agree and say the ultimate blame rests on Kiev.

    6. Perhaps but that is nothing but conjecture.

    To date it seems Iran thought it was a US military aircraft and attacked it, again the plane should not have been airborne and Iran stated "they told the plane to divert back to the airport but it never arrived". This supports the fact really, they realized a civilian airliner was in the air and told it to return right away but sadly the SAM crew didn't know this and acted.

    It was an accident, an unfortunate one yes but Iran did not purposly take the plane out. Someone in Iran fucked up and it resulted in this, Accidents happen. I do not hold it against Iran.

    I don't know how exactly air defence system works but would it not be able to tell the difference between a civilian aircraft and something else?
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    Post  kvs on Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:03 am

    par far wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Ah KVS for a guy who talks about propaganda you love to post your own.

    1. Iranian Anti-Aircraft batteries were on high alert and a general alert was in fact issued to all civilian airliners in Iran. So yes Iranian Anti Aircraft crews were on post and activating looking for any potential targets.

    2. Not really you have to braindead and a propagandist on the Russian side to say something so idiotic. There are a number of scenarios a missile could have hit the plane.

    3. Also, you clearly don't know shit, The Iranians comb and check aircraft leaving and coming in. So while it is possible some CIA guys managed to set a bomb up the problem with that retarded theory is.

    If a bomb exploded in a pressured air cabin the plane would have literally imploded completely in the air, the plane was spotted going down intact but on fire into the ground.

    Nevermind that was a 787 those things aren't the 737 Model, they can return to Airport with one intact engine and consider the plane was about four minutes away from the Airpot mechanical failure doesn't seem likely. 787's have redundancy systems that eliminated all of the 737's problems.  

    4. Data and reports so far are showing Iranian by mistake shot it down, the plane should not have been in the air Iran ordered all civilian aircraft to be grounded, Trump said, he thinks Iran took it out by mistake and given what's known so far that does seem to be the case.

    5. No MH17 was Shot down by the rebels but Ukraine did knowingly send the plane to their deaths hoping the rebels would shoot it down. So I will agree and say the ultimate blame rests on Kiev.

    6. Perhaps but that is nothing but conjecture.

    To date it seems Iran thought it was a US military aircraft and attacked it, again the plane should not have been airborne and Iran stated "they told the plane to divert back to the airport but it never arrived". This supports the fact really, they realized a civilian airliner was in the air and told it to return right away but sadly the SAM crew didn't know this and acted.

    It was an accident, an unfortunate one yes but Iran did not purposly take the plane out. Someone in Iran fucked up and it resulted in this, Accidents happen. I do not hold it against Iran.

    I don't know how exactly air defence system works but would it not be able to tell the difference between a civilian aircraft and something else?

    You bet your sweet patootie that it can. But yanqui propaganda relies on peasant ignorance in the west, especially in the "exceptional" USA (i.e. special needs) where only
    28% of the people can find Iran on a map.'

    Yanqui chest thumping chauvinists want everyone to believe that Iran can't integrate its civilian air traffic control system with its military one. That somehow such super duper
    high tech is beyond the "rag heads". This is in the face of two decades of US drone terrorism in the Middle East. By now advanced countries like Iran can track US drones
    and pretty much any flying object in their immediate airspace. Iran has both bough Russian missile systems and their associated tracking tech as well as developing its own.
    It is not Haiti and that is why the yanqui terrorists have not been taking out Iranian "terrorist" generals in Iran using their drones.

    And the cherry on top of the yanqui blood libel cake is that civilian airliners have ID transponders. Unless the CIA or its stooges turned off the transponder in the
    737 that "crashed", Iran and anyone with the available civilian equipment would have been able to tag it. There was no training exercise in Iran with anti-aircraft
    missiles being fired for any Tor to shoot down the Ukrainian jetliner. So any accidental shootdown is excluded.

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:43 am

    @Par-far

    Generally, civilian aircraft do transmit codes that say, civilian.

    The problem is the SAM crew doesn't really have the ability to receive them in most cases and other issues could complicate that. Add that in with the fact they were told all Civilian airlines where grounded and well there comes the problem. I expect some idiots will say "The plane has a transponder Iran would know it was civilian" and a statement like that is a baseless assumption, that assumes the SAM crew could get the transponder signal and then know what it is it also makes about a dozen other assumptions.

    I expect propagandists to use that excuse until they are blue in the face

    The SAM crew chances thought

    "Oh oh shit, a large military plane is near an airport where we have civilians. It Must be a bomber! we have to shoot it down now"

    That is why I believe they fired without checking with command first, in the operator's mind if they waited that long something terrible could have happened and so made a decision.

    We don't know what Launcher was used, it may have been an older system that picked up a B-52 sized blip and thought it was a bomber.

    We did scramble aircraft from the UAE so the SAM crew had reasons to believe it would have been a plane that somehow penetrated airspace.

    Again I am not blaming the Iranian military, the government told all civilians planes to ground themselves just someone somewhere fucked up and that plane got the message after it took off or hey maybe it was taking off as the alert was issued and the order only just got to that airport.

    But considering Iranian warned us an hour in advance of the missile attacks, the airports would have also gotten an advance notice.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:10 am

    China will keep being friendly with everyone until it reaches the top. Then they will have to destroy anyone who wants to remove them from the top and they will do the same as US or any other empire in history.

    But they will know that is what the US did... and it didn't work.

    If the US had stuck to its principles of truth and justice and been tough but fair it would have a lot more respect than it does now and a lot more support than it does now.

    It is the catholic priest who is not only a paedophile and rapist but he also cheats on his tax returns too... when you first meet him he seems nice and honest but as you get to know him better you start to suspect he is a creep... and saying he should not be replaced because the alternative could be worse is no reason not to kick him out of the job and look for alternatives.

    To be clear the US wanted to dominate the world... it wanted to be top dog and its publicly stated fight was for democracy and peace and freedom, but with the fall of the Soviet Union during which they were happy to have good relations with China and Yugoslavia which were communist countries at the time, shows it was never about communism it was about an economic rival that threatened their position... ie Russia.

    And seeing how they threat muslims in china I hope for the ME they never rule them.

    Why would they want to rule the ME? Why would they want to rule anything other than their own territory?

    The Irony is that the only victims were the many iranians in the Boeing 737 that Iran shot down.

    But surely a Russian BUK did it... it drove from Russia and launched the missile and then drove back... I have photographic evidence...

    Here it is in Iran near the air port... they haven't even driven it back to Russia yet...

    US-Iran standoff 2019- #2 - Page 6 D-iudu10

    Iran warned USA hours infront the attack, no serious damage was done.

    So if they were warned and still didn't shoot down a single Iranian missile... what does that say?

    It basically says that if Iran wants to it can attack any US base in Iraq and presumably Syria and Afghanistan and Yemen and UAE and Saudi Arabia and there is nothing the US can do to stop them... ie the first time ever for the US military that their rear areas can't be defended and are vulnerable to attack...

    That's what happens when you forget that revenge is a dish best served cold.

    Bunch of own goals.

    If they had killed 200 Americans then Trump would have no choice but to basically start a war... which is really not in the interests of Iran or the US.

    What they basically did was show the Americans was that their bases are not safe... targets were hit on the ground... those missiles were not shot down like they would have if they were Russian bases in Syria...

    I am sure the Pentagon is shitting itself... its rear areas are no longer safe... and the only possible response would be to spend trillions getting AEGIS ASHORE built at every US base... and that simply isn't happening...

    This was a home run, game, set, match to Iran... further economic sanctions are meaningless...

    There are more than enough nations for us to judge by what they do do, the US chief among them

    For now China are the good guys

    The fact that they don't go around telling everyone they are the good guys so you should do what they tell you to do makes them even better in my eyes.

    6) The hate propaganda using civilians is nothing new: "remember the Lusitania!" is the same BS. The US has a motive to
    smear Iran with a faked up killing of civilians to dilute its own murder of Soleimani which is not popular around the world.

    Of course there is the other option you have ignored... just another Boeing crash... happens more often these days... maybe made in the US doesn't mean as much today as what it used to...

    If a bomb exploded in a pressured air cabin the plane would have literally imploded completely in the air, the plane was spotted going down intact but on fire into the ground.

    It would only implode if it was thousands of metres under water...

    5. No MH17 was Shot down by the rebels but Ukraine did knowingly send the plane to their deaths hoping the rebels would shoot it down

    Oh please... was James Bond there to figure out how to operate a BUK SAM system and use it... so the obvious question... there were large numbers of aircraft routed over that piece of airspace... why only shoot down one? Surely if it is rebel controlled they would then target any Kiev aircraft sent to investigate...

    To date it seems Iran thought it was a US military aircraft and attacked it, again the plane should not have been airborne and Iran stated "they told the plane to divert back to the airport but it never arrived". This supports the fact really, they realized a civilian airliner was in the air and told it to return right away but sadly the SAM crew didn't know this and acted.

    Hahahaha... yes... these stupid SAM crews who can't tell the difference between a B-2 stealth bomber and a civlian airliner.... even with night vision optics and an IFF system telling them it was a civilian airliner?

    So far all the speculation of a SAM attack is coming from the US, which I wouldn't trust if it told me water was wet.


    Call it BS all you want but the facts don't support that.

    The facts don't support a missile attack either... lets face it... Boeings are shit.

    Generally, civilian aircraft do transmit codes that say, civilian.

    Yeah, flying in the middle east without a civilian code transmitting will get you in to a lot of shit, so you can bet your house they had it on.

    The problem is the SAM crew doesn't really have the ability to receive them in most cases and other issues could complicate that.

    Ah bullshit. TOR is a very sophisticated system with a very power and very capable radar set, as well as optical backup... they would know exactly what they were looking at... besides an aircraft slowly climbing from a civilian airport with no explosions going off suggests at civil aircraft taking off rather than an attack by American planes.

    Add that in with the fact they were told all Civilian airlines where grounded and well there comes the problem. I expect some idiots will say "The plane has a transponder Iran would know it was civilian" and a statement like that is a baseless assumption, that assumes the SAM crew could get the transponder signal and then know what it is it also makes about a dozen other assumptions.

    If civilian airliners were grounded how did this aircraft get permission to take off? Just because aircraft are grounded does not mean there wont be any in the air either arriving or have taken off before the grounding order was given...

    I expect propagandists to use that excuse until they are blue in the face

    The SAM crew chances thought

    "Oh oh shit, a large military plane is near an airport where we have civilians. It Must be a bomber! we have to shoot it down now"

    Wow... and would they be using American english accents or british ones to make them sound more foreign?

    A large four engined plane that is on our radar as being a civilian airliner is heading away from an airport we tracked it fucking taking off from... it must be an American bomber... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

    That is why I believe they fired without checking with command first, in the operator's mind if they waited that long something terrible could have happened and so made a decision.

    My understanding was that the plane crashed near the airport it took off from and was in the process of taking off when it crashed... so why would that operator think that that American bomber that just took off from that Iranian civil air port using a civilian airliners code be anything but a civil airliner taking off?

    We don't know what Launcher was used, it may have been an older system that picked up a B-52 sized blip and thought it was a bomber.

    Older systems still part of their air defence network, still able to determine where it took off from and that it was squawking a civilian code unless it wanted to get shot down crossing in to Iraqi airspace...

    We did scramble aircraft from the UAE so the SAM crew had reasons to believe it would have been a plane that somehow penetrated airspace.

    Penetrated airspace and landed and then took off and was leaving Iranian airspace...

    Again I am not blaming the Iranian military,

    Of course not... it is just their fault... they did it... but I am not blaming them at all...

    But considering Iranian warned us an hour in advance of the missile attacks, the airports would have also gotten an advance notice.

    Yet you still didn't shoot down any of those missiles...
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    Post  nomadski on Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:38 am

    Agree. This is diversionary tactic to make Iranians forget assassination. The BBC reported that people are forgetting about assassination and things cooling down and Iranian commentator Mr. Zeebacalam agreed over phone conversation that this news is what is needed to save us all ( from Iranian retaliation). Also trump and Canada and Bellingcat (  a MI6 outlet) broke the news. This is main aim they follow, but they also want access for their spies in Iran. The Liberal traitors and enemy fifth column must be removed. They are identifying themselves now by their actions.

    Iran should not put this on the news. And talk about killing of soliemani. And Iranian war effert to drive Yanks out.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:14 am

    Garry your entire rant and responses are based on assumptions.

    I'll respond to one to show you what I mean.

    You assume the SAM crew knew the Aircraft took off from the airport, you don't know that at all.

    You also assume they could tell the make and Model, you assume the SAM crew had visuals etc. Your making dozens of assumptions.

    Please don't make baseless assumptions.

    If Transponders were sooooo perfect, we would never have these issues but we do because sometimes humans make errors.

    The facts to date support Iranians accidentally shot it down, now maybe in the future Iran will show that's not the case and I welcome them to show otherwise. Right now however everything lines up a mistake.

    There is a video going around online showing something small and fast maneuvering towards the aircraft.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn1fVDQey3A
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    Post  nomadski on Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:25 am


    The Iranians will be hitting aircraft. No doubt. This is just start of operations. Poor yank pilots!

    https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2020/01/09/2178632/iran-s-missile-attack-on-us-base-beginning-of-major-operation-commander
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:52 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Call it BS all you want but the facts don't support that.

    I just reiterated some facts, and they most definitely undermine the BS narratives from NATOista sock puppets. What a muppet.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:03 am

    Garry your entire rant and responses are based on assumptions.

    Of course... my rant is based on facts and yours is propaganda... where are your facts coming from... are you now on the ground in Iran?

    You assume the SAM crew knew the Aircraft took off from the airport, you don't know that at all.

    You assume a SAM was involved with no evidence to support that claim. There are no reports of emergency calls from the aircraft and it started to turn around to head back to the airport before it crashed.

    You also assume they could tell the make and Model, you assume the SAM crew had visuals etc. Your making dozens of assumptions.

    My assumptions eliminate your assumptions... if the SAM missile crew were operating a TOR system they have optical support to view the target and their 3D radar is probably better than that used in some airports around the world.... but your assumption it was shot down in the first place still has to be proven.

    Bellingcat is not a credible source.

    If Transponders were sooooo perfect, we would never have these issues but we do because sometimes humans make errors.

    Actually if the US didn't turn off their transponders when they were doing naughty things or use false signals there would be less chance of errors...

    There is a video going around online showing something small and fast maneuvering towards the aircraft.

    Wow... that video has convinced me.... but to be fair that Ukrainian aircraft was just asking for it by flying over Iran with its navigation lights turned off...

    Of course I assume it is Iran... for all we know it could be Syria and a Syrian Air Defence missile shooting down an ISIS drone.

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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:13 am

    I have to say that the Ukraine is a very useful US ally... I mean when Kiev shot down a plane and everyone blamed and sanctioned Russia you could call it lucky, but the Trump phone call to Kiev getting impeachment proceedings started is number two, but now another boeing going down they can blame on Iran to make them look silly is just too handy... do you think the CIA forced Boeing to put kill switches on their planes?

    Push a button and the engines catch fire and radio communications go down...
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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:36 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    Nevermind that was a 787 those things aren't the 737 Model, they can return to Airport with one intact engine and consider the plane was about four minutes away from the Airpot mechanical failure doesn't seem likely. 787's have redundancy systems that eliminated all of the 737's problems.  


    That is new news.

    Everyone else is saying that the flight was operated on a Boeing 737-800 NG aircraft (registration UR-PSR).

    Indeed their website says "Ukraine International Airlines' fleet consists of 42 modern airliners: 3 wide-body long-haul Boeing 777-200ER aircraft, 4 long-haul Boeing 767-300ER, 28 medium-haul New Generation Boeing 737, 5 medium-haul Embraer-190 and 2 medium-haul Embraer-195."

    No 787 in sight.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:02 am

    GarryB wrote:I have to say that the Ukraine is a very useful US ally... I mean when Kiev shot down a plane and everyone blamed and sanctioned Russia you could call it lucky, but the Trump phone call to Kiev getting impeachment proceedings started is number two, but now another boeing going down they can blame on Iran to make them look silly is just too handy... do you think the CIA forced Boeing to put kill switches on their planes?

    Push a button and the engines catch fire and radio communications go down...

    Yep and just like in Ukraine US have sattelite images that prove iran lauanched missiles byt they can't share them.

    Ukaine and malasya planes or their government are involved in the last 3 major weired crashes. And everytime US are involved.
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    Post  nomadski on Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:13 am

    This plane story is only story. Until evidence provided. Remains distraction to real story. The war.

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/154385/De-escalation-viable-only-after-US-withdrawal-from-region-Hatami

    Since retreat will not happen, by Diplomacy. Then force is needed. The Americans are reportedly in force build up. Even if not true. Iran suffering from shame and hunger. If we must attack. And we must. Then sooner better than later. Since no plan to build nukes. And no time to build fighters. Then no point in waiting. Must attack now. Now. Now. Now. Better now, since gives Iran more time to shut oil, and cripple the enemy. And allies. With force in place then less time for shut down of oil. Only need shut down for short time of a few weeks. Before they all die of thirst for oil. ( Not China or India........... ).


    Last edited by nomadski on Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:04 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  Isos on Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:20 am

    The companies should have forbiden to their pilots to fly above and near Iran/Iraq borders and above hormuz strait. It was a moment of tensions and they should flown in eastern iran.

    They are the ones who must pay for that.
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    Post  nomadski on Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:42 am

    This hatred is part of American culture. The Iranians who send letter to Moore or Deniro, are stupid. The American people are their enemy. Not just the Liberal elite or corporate interests. Here they celebrate the killing of Soliemani.

    https://youtu.be/D_HvgYKE_Ag

    Death to America. Death to American. The news about casualties is only released by IRGC, but only in Persian language media. Not English language media. True or not, not important. Racist culture can not be reasoned with. Must release same info in English as well as Persian. I translate for racist English speaking world. The IRGC reported hundreds  dead and injured yank troops in missile strike . Transported by 9 transport planes to Usrael and Jordan............

    https://youtu.be/6Ba6k2kFzSA

    Iran's external message by foreign minister or UN envoy, should in no way indicate that this Iranian missile strike was in any shape or form a retaliation for murder of Soliemani. With or without hundreds of dead or wounded. Nor should Iran UN envoy say, if you don't hit, we will not hit. This is a signal of accepting defeat. In face of a blockade and murder of a hero. The only answer is and can only be that this strike was first of many. With the aim of driving Yanks out of region. The Yanks have a choice to go in peace or in pieces. Iranians must guard against the malign influence of liberals in government and any influence they may exercise over decisions of leadership.
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    Post  Aristide on Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:10 pm

    Iran invited France to investigate this event.

    Will be interesting.
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    Post  RTN on Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:20 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:
    The Iranian "attack" was clearly a capability's show and contemporaneously an enemy air defense vulnerability show; it is clear to anyone (in particular the same US military operatives) except ,it seem, some contributor here.......  


    https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/us-iran-news-01-08-2020/h_90bbeda4cb756b93059ca87ffcee8eba


    The impressive accuracy shown against the selected parts of the air bases hit and....one more time.....the total inability by part of US forces to intercept anything aimed at the air bases, had very likely the aim to show that incalculable damages both in terms of material, such as the typical US-made gold plated aircraft and ammo depot full of similarly gold-plated high precision air ammunitions concentrated in those air bases devoid even of the shadow of an air defense umbrella, EW coverage and hardening, and USAF operative's lives can be inflicted in a matter of few minutes and that therefore would be very wise 1) To lower the tones of the menaces 2) To begin prepare an exit plan from the area.

    Given the spread of impacts and the fact that one allegedly missed by over 20 km up north you might have to find a new definition for the word accuracy. If you shoot that small a number and 4 blow up in flight, with at least 4 appearing to land in useless locations...you may have a weapon that's been accurate in testing and limited use, but reliability may be cratering the missile's true effectiveness.

    I'd slow down on the "impressive accuracy" talk, hoping so would you.
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    Post  par far on Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:47 pm

    kvs wrote:
    par far wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Ah KVS for a guy who talks about propaganda you love to post your own.

    1. Iranian Anti-Aircraft batteries were on high alert and a general alert was in fact issued to all civilian airliners in Iran. So yes Iranian Anti Aircraft crews were on post and activating looking for any potential targets.

    2. Not really you have to braindead and a propagandist on the Russian side to say something so idiotic. There are a number of scenarios a missile could have hit the plane.

    3. Also, you clearly don't know shit, The Iranians comb and check aircraft leaving and coming in. So while it is possible some CIA guys managed to set a bomb up the problem with that retarded theory is.

    If a bomb exploded in a pressured air cabin the plane would have literally imploded completely in the air, the plane was spotted going down intact but on fire into the ground.

    Nevermind that was a 787 those things aren't the 737 Model, they can return to Airport with one intact engine and consider the plane was about four minutes away from the Airpot mechanical failure doesn't seem likely. 787's have redundancy systems that eliminated all of the 737's problems.  

    4. Data and reports so far are showing Iranian by mistake shot it down, the plane should not have been in the air Iran ordered all civilian aircraft to be grounded, Trump said, he thinks Iran took it out by mistake and given what's known so far that does seem to be the case.

    5. No MH17 was Shot down by the rebels but Ukraine did knowingly send the plane to their deaths hoping the rebels would shoot it down. So I will agree and say the ultimate blame rests on Kiev.

    6. Perhaps but that is nothing but conjecture.

    To date it seems Iran thought it was a US military aircraft and attacked it, again the plane should not have been airborne and Iran stated "they told the plane to divert back to the airport but it never arrived". This supports the fact really, they realized a civilian airliner was in the air and told it to return right away but sadly the SAM crew didn't know this and acted.

    It was an accident, an unfortunate one yes but Iran did not purposly take the plane out. Someone in Iran fucked up and it resulted in this, Accidents happen. I do not hold it against Iran.

    I don't know how exactly air defence system works but would it not be able to tell the difference between a civilian aircraft and something else?

    You bet your sweet patootie that it can.   But yanqui propaganda relies on peasant ignorance in the west, especially in the "exceptional" USA (i.e. special needs) where only
    28% of the people can find Iran on a map.'

    Yanqui chest thumping chauvinists want everyone to believe that Iran can't integrate its civilian air traffic control system with its military one.   That somehow such super duper
    high tech is beyond the "rag heads".   This is in the face of two decades of US drone terrorism in the Middle East.   By now advanced countries like Iran can track US drones
    and pretty much any flying object in their immediate airspace.   Iran has both bough Russian missile systems and their associated tracking tech as well as developing its own.
    It is not Haiti and that is why the yanqui terrorists have not been taking out Iranian "terrorist" generals in Iran using their drones.  

    And the cherry on top of the yanqui blood libel cake is that civilian airliners have ID transponders.   Unless the CIA or its stooges turned off the transponder in the
    737 that "crashed", Iran and anyone with the available civilian equipment would have been able to tag it.    There was no training exercise in Iran with anti-aircraft
    missiles being fired for any Tor to shoot down the Ukrainian jetliner.    So any accidental shootdown is excluded.



    I believe this is the truth, The US just imposed sanctions on Iran and the investigation is not even over yet. This was about demonizing Iran more than anything else.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:57 pm

    The other weired thing with this story is that the plane was taking off from Teheran near the supposed tor emplacement. So they had it on their radar from the begining and there was like 7 or 8 other take offs the hours before the accident with the same flight path. So it wasn't a surprise for them.

    And another weired thing is that at take off the plane is full of fuel. A missile would have make it explode in the air at the moment it intercepted it. Civilian plane's fuel tanks are not protected likesu-25's to not allow their explosion if I'm not wrong.
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    Post  par far on Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:02 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:@Par-far

    Generally, civilian aircraft do transmit codes that say, civilian.

    The problem is the SAM crew doesn't really have the ability to receive them in most cases and other issues could complicate that. Add that in with the fact they were told all Civilian airlines where grounded and well there comes the problem. I expect some idiots will say "The plane has a transponder Iran would know it was civilian" and a statement like that is a baseless assumption, that assumes the SAM crew could get the transponder signal and then know what it is it also makes about a dozen other assumptions.

    I expect propagandists to use that excuse until they are blue in the face

    The SAM crew chances thought

    "Oh oh shit, a large military plane is near an airport where we have civilians. It Must be a bomber! we have to shoot it down now"

    That is why I believe they fired without checking with command first, in the operator's mind if they waited that long something terrible could have happened and so made a decision.

    We don't know what Launcher was used, it may have been an older system that picked up a B-52 sized blip and thought it was a bomber.

    We did scramble aircraft from the UAE so the SAM crew had reasons to believe it would have been a plane that somehow penetrated airspace.

    Again I am not blaming the Iranian military, the government told all civilians planes to ground themselves just someone somewhere fucked up and that plane got the message after it took off or hey maybe it was taking off as the alert was issued and the order only just got to that airport.

    But considering Iranian warned us an hour in advance of the missile attacks, the airports would have also gotten an advance notice.

    Thanks for the explanation Seig. This plane crashed near Tehran, so I don't think that there is any chance that the SAM crew thought it was a big bomber because it would have not allowed to reach Tehran in the first place, would the Iranians not have picked up the bomber right when it entered Iranian air space?

    And also, why would Iran blow up a civilian aircraft, it has nothing to gain from it(same as the Malaysian airliner that was shot down in Ukraine and blamed on Russia, why would Russia do that, Russia has nothing to gain from it.)

    I think this was to put more sanctions on Iran(which they have done) and to demonize Iran.

    The best thing and the absolute thing that Iran can do, in my opinion, is to invite Russia and China and give them a military base in Iran, the would set off the Zionists. Imagine the Russians and the Chinese having a military base in the Persian Gulf.

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