But Su 57 unlike the Su 35 doesn't have super cruise engines.
First of all the definition of supercruise is just bullshit... the key feature of supercruising is being able to fly at supersonic speeds without needing continuous afterburner to maintain speed... whether you need to use AB to get to supersonic speed or not is immaterial because the real key is being able to fly supersonic speed at dry thrust increasing your speed but not doubling your fuel consumption like you would if you had to keep your AB on all the time.
AFAIK both the Su-35 and Su-57 can fly at supersonic speed without needing afterburner to maintain supersonic speed... which is no shock because the MiG-25 and MiG-31 can both do that too... they do need after burner to break the sound barrier but can return to dry thrust if they are not trying to get anywhere as fast as they possibly can.
The test plane Tu-144 with the NK-32 engines from the Blackjack can also supercruise effectively giving it flight performance better than Concorde (it was always faster but was less efficient because it needed AB to maintain supersonic speeds unlike the western aircraft).
Most Long - medium range AAM's will follow a "Low-high-low" profile - ie. from their fired altitude (low), immediately climb to a much higher altitude (high) and then dive down on their target from height trading altitude for speed since by this time the rocket motors have burnt out during the climb phase (low) - ie. they coast to target. The only exception are missiles like the MBDA Meteor which have a turbofan motor giving them power flight all the way until impact with the target. This gives them much higher pk with a single engagement. Modern short range AAM's are extremely manuveorable (50 g+ turns), have a high bore-sight (90 degrees+ from the central line) and using IIR (Image Infra-Red) together with a UV co-linked system which collectively are extremely difficult to fool with flares and other decoys. This tends to give them extremely high pk's (0.9+) even against a highly manuveorable jets like the Su-27 series (read Su-35) and Su-57.
Firing a long range AAM from low or medium altitude would be a bit of a waste... most pilots launching a long range AAM shot would give their missile the most possible energy by climbing and accelerating as much as they can before launching the missile.
When the target is close... ie a 20km shot at a target using an AMRAAM or R-77 then the missiles will likely go active radar straight away and not bother climbing very much at all.
Thus a Su-35 and Su-57 may dodge a single AIM-9X or Phyton-5 (less than 50 - 50 chance), but after that he will be either very slow or low in height or both.
Their DIRCMs lasers will blind the seekers of IR and IIR guided missiles, so such optically guided weapons would be relatively useless most of the time, which makes manouver performance and the number of shells carried for the gun important...
The second AAM launched will then most likely get him. If such misslles are salvoed in a volley, the opponent is pretty much toast.
If the DIRCMs defeat the first missile they should also defeat the rest too... besides the 9M100 is supposed to be a small compact self defence anti missile missile used as a CIWS for ships in Redut launchers, and on land in S-350 launchers and by aircraft as a short range self defence AAM. Carrying a dozen of those means you could shoot down the entire payload of any F-22 or F-35 and still have plenty to deal with the launch platforms, but as I said eventually DIRCMS will defeat all IIR guided weapons so again it is guns.
Add to that a Helmet Mount Display sighting system (HMD helmet) and the shooting pilot can look anywhere (even back over his shoulder), shooting his missile at any angle from the plane towards the opponent.
Does the F-22 or F-35 even have high off boresight capability... neither are intended for dogfighting... they are stand off snipers in camouflage that is supposed to make them invisible.
Shooting a missile over your shoulder merely reduces the energy it has to attack the target.. if the first thing your missile has to do is a 180 degree turn to attack an enemy behind you all of a sudden that 20km range missile is now a 2km range missile because all the time it was supposed to be accelerating and climbing to attack its target it has just been executing a hard high g turn which burned up most of its speed.
Missiles are small and rely on velocity for performance... a sidewinder or an archer has tiny control surfaces so if it was flying at 600km/h it wouldn't be able to complete a 180 degree turn without stalling and falling... it needs to have completed its 180 degree turn before it runs out of rocket propulsion... the Archer would do this much better than the sidewinder would because the archer has a thrust vectoring rocket motor so it can turn at low speeds much harder than any physical control surfaces could turn it without stalling and just creating drag...
Even still it is much better to pull hard on the flight stick and point your nose at the target before launching the missile because then it will accelerate directly at the target and have much more energy and speed and if the target tries to out turn it it has free movement of turn to follow them... imagine you are pulling a hard turn to get into position to face a target and they turn so you have to turn even harder to follow them... it is their best chance of avoiding your attack most of the time...
Given that these modern short range AAM's are all-aspect (ie. do not need to be fired from behind an opponent, but also from front with a high pk value) this all combines to mean that when two so equipped jets get into a short range fight are likely to mutually down each other within the first 10-15 seconds - no matter how manuveorable they are. Hence USA and NATO's focus on BVR (Beyond Visual Range) and stealth. This combination really works
During tests against East German MiG-29s western pilots that did not have high off boresight missiles lost every time... forget all aspect missile seekers... when you have a heat seeking missile you get on the tail of the target before launch when you can to maximise kill probability. Even though the lightly loaded F-16s managed to get on the tails of the German MiG-29s forced to carry centreline tanks for the tests which reduces their g manouverability to 6 g about 60% of the time the MiGs were still winning because by the time the F-16s got to a fire position the MiGs were judged to have already launched their missiles and were judged to have shot down the western aircraft... of all types (the F-16s did the best with getting to the best shooting position 60% of the time, but all the other types were beaten by the MiG).
The simple fact is that the thrust vectoring R-73 can turn its nose to follow even a crossing target or a head on target about to blow past the MiG-29 and keep its nose pointed at the target and keeping the lock while the rocket motor powers it towards the target.... making it a very capable dog fight missile...
Of course these days its IR sensor could be blinded by DIRCMS, but you never know what tricks they perform...
And the missile has been upgraded multiple times with the current model being all digital...
I'm a little bit confused. I didn't say their idea is stupid. It's the opposite actually. I answered to his statement that there is no solution to make poded engines stealth and said they found a simple and effective solution.
My apology was not directed at you LSOS... after rereading my response to Jhelb I felt I was being a bit harsh with my responses...
You on the other hand were making perfect sense to me...
From what I see the su-57 is facing upward and the missile goes at 90° and under the aircraft. The position seems to not allow the pilot to aim with helmet mounted sight at the target because it is under its belly.
R-73 has very good manoeuvrability and can lock at high angles but in this position the pilot can't see the target. Maybe it already lock before going up or maybe they use some sort of camera to target under the plane.
French pilots use the Mica IR detector as a cheap irist maybe they do the same with the r-37.
The Su-57 has a distributed optic system that allows targets to be shared between optics and radar system, so a target out of direct vision of the pilot could still be tracked by the IRST or radar with the target location being passed to the missile. Note the R-73 is not ideal for the Su-57 because the original model needs a lock on target before it can be launched which is difficult with internal carriage... perhaps those wing mounts are designed to lower IR guided missiles down so they can see the target and get a lock before launch?
The 9M100 has a datalink and an IIR seeker so it can be launched and then fly towards the target before getting its own lock... the TOR missile is launched vertically and then commanded to roll toward the incoming targets direction and then accelerate away, though it is command guided so it never actually gets a lock on the target anyway.
Yes. I've seen that. But that seems to be an artist's rendition. I was wondering if you have an image of the entire aircraft that shows the radar blockers. I did carry out a Google search but couldn't find one.
Do you want the schematics for the internal computer network they use too?
These are secret features they will have no interest in sharing with the world any time soon.
IIRC, Boeing lost out in the F 22 competition because their prototype the Y 23 was using radar blockers. USAF didn't like that idea.
The F-22 won because it is effectively a stealthy F-15 and therefore it is just a stealthy MiG-25... the American military might pretend to be pro high tech but ultimately they are ultra-conservative... the F-23 was too radical for them to consider... ironic really because the FCS and Zumwalt were probably too radical.
TURBOFAN ENGINE on Meteor!
The problem with a ramjet is its speed restrictions keep it roughly on par with rocket motors... scramjet motors opens the door to much higher speeds and smaller missiles than you could manage with solid rocket fuel... even high energy stuff... because high energy rocket fuel can be translated to high energy scramjet fuel too...
The point is YF-23 has a lower RCS than F-22 even it has partial serpentine shape like SU-57 , if they didn't like something it doesn't mean everyone should do the same .
More to the point at one point they claimed the round engine exhausts were not stealthy, which was why the F-22 has rectangle shaped engine exhausts... but the reality is much more mundane... the F-35 shows round nozzles can be stealthy, but when they made the F-22 they couldn't make them round AND thrust vectoring so they made a choice.
Their poor expertise with thrust vector control jet engines means they put both engines together like the F-15 and F-22, but by spacing them out on the MiG-29 and Su-35 and Su-57 you get much better performance in roll control with TVC engines using differential roll control of the nozzles... even the Typhoon and Rafale have their engines together.... and the Gripen and F-35 only have one engine so roll rate can't be achieved when stalling even with TVC engines fitted...
Whether a target is stealthy or not it comes down to what do you kill it with... and with modern ESM and ECM and decoys and jammers and DIRCMs odds are the missiles are going to do as their name suggests and miss and it will come down to guns and my money is on Russian fighters in terms of manouver and gun performance...