Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

Four years earlier than scheduled It's amazing what a little political resolve and adequate funding levels can do.

owais.usmani wrote:

Arrow wrote:Will it be possible to build aircraft carriers at this dock? Is it too shallow?

It is mentioned that it is one of the largest docks in the world. Gas and Oil tankers similar in size to an aircraft carrier will be built there.

Well humanity never fails to dissapoint, at this rate we will never get 500km long space battleships.

That crane though, why is it so tall, it looks absurd for something of it's size.

LMFS wrote:

Arrow wrote:Will it be possible to build aircraft carriers at this dock? Is it too shallow?

You could build not one but two carriers of the Kuznetsov's size there at the same time

If they build a new carrier it will be wider than Kuznetsov.

But a carrier will take time to build and occupy the dock for a long time.

They will prefer to use it for civilian vessels.

The dock is capable of building ships up to 350K ton, so a 70-90K ton carrier should not be a huge problem.

There is more than one dock this size being made AFAIK... this one is close to Vladivostok, but there is another in the far north of the far east if you get my meaning....

In what town is that second dock?

GarryB wrote:The dock is capable of building ships up to 350K ton, so a 70-90K ton carrier should not be a huge problem.

There is more than one dock this size being made AFAIK... this one is close to Vladivostok, but there is another in the far north of the far east if you get my meaning....

I wonder what could be achieved with a 350,000 ton aircraft carrier, perhaps the ability to launch medium bombers, perhaps even a newer and smaller medium bomber based on the TU-22M3.

The-thing-next-door wrote:

GarryB wrote:The dock is capable of building ships up to 350K ton, so a 70-90K ton carrier should not be a huge problem.

There is more than one dock this size being made AFAIK... this one is close to Vladivostok, but there is another in the far north of the far east if you get my meaning....

I wonder what could be achieved with a 350,000 ton aircraft carrier, perhaps the ability to launch medium bombers, perhaps even a newer and smaller medium bomber based on the TU-22M3.

It's just a not realistic figure to show how big it is...

It will be used to build 2 long ships with 2 more smaller in the same time rather than a super heavy.

The-thing-next-door wrote:

GarryB wrote:The dock is capable of building ships up to 350K ton, so a 70-90K ton carrier should not be a huge problem.

There is more than one dock this size being made AFAIK... this one is close to Vladivostok, but there is another in the far north of the far east if you get my meaning....

I wonder what could be achieved with a 350,000 ton aircraft carrier, perhaps the ability to launch medium bombers, perhaps even a newer and smaller medium bomber based on the TU-22M3.

a 350k tons CV?.......That would be sunk with so much ease and the amount of money you could lose as a result and the manpower for one ship would be catastrophic.

owais.usmani wrote:

GarryB wrote:but there is another in the far north of the far east if you get my meaning....

Which dock you are referring to?

I think he is referring to the Kola shipyard being built by Novatek but it is only for LNG platforms, very unlikely place for CVN construction, THOUGH it could perhaps fabricate blocks then tow them to another shipyard to decrease construction time and avoid taking up dockspace.


Edit: photo

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

The-thing-next-door wrote:

GarryB wrote:The dock is capable of building ships up to 350K ton, so a 70-90K ton carrier should not be a huge problem.

There is more than one dock this size being made AFAIK... this one is close to Vladivostok, but there is another in the far north of the far east if you get my meaning....

I wonder what could be achieved with a 350,000 ton aircraft carrier, perhaps the ability to launch medium bombers, perhaps even a newer and smaller medium bomber based on the TU-22M3.

a 350k tons CV?.......That would be sunk with so much ease and the amount of money you could lose as a result and the manpower for one ship would be catastrophic.

It would be even easier to sink a 70k ton CV and they cost enough money and resources already.

In fact the US aircraft carriers are incredibly vulnerable to something like the Zirkon, Kinzhal or even just Kh-32.

But the Zirkon can just be launched by a sub from 200km away and its bye-bye AC.

As I heard NATO is very concerned by the missile; and have pretty much switched all resources to collapsing Russia now to mitigate the threat.

x_54_u43 wrote:

owais.usmani wrote:

GarryB wrote:but there is another in the far north of the far east if you get my meaning....

Which dock you are referring to?

I think he is referring to the Kola shipyard being built by Novatek but it is only for LNG platforms, very unlikely place for CVN construction, THOUGH it could perhaps fabricate blocks then tow them to another shipyard to decrease construction time and avoid taking up dockspace.


Edit: photo

Well, the Kola shipyard is going to have two dry docks with dimensions of 400×185×15.7 and 400×205×15.7 meters...

However it is not in the far east!  It is near Murmanks, not that far away from Finland!


Edit: as far as I know there is a ship repair yard (that also used to repair nuclear subs) in the town of Vilyuchinsk in Kamchatka, but I do not know if they are expanding its capacities


In addition there was the plan for the vostok-raffles shipyard (now as a further expansion of Zvezda)

The project to create a shipyard of Vostok-Raffles JSC is the third stage of construction of the Zvezda shipyard (the planned construction period is 2021-2024).

The project is being implemented in 3 stages.

Stage 1 - Block of hull-processing industries and painting chambers.

Stage 2 - Open outfitting heavy slipway with saturation shops, dry dock and outfitting shops.

Stage 3 - Block of workshops and dry dock in Mysovaya settlement (site of Vostok-Raffles JSC)

This should be in the Pyati Okhotnikov Bay, in Mysovoye (south of Bolshoi Kamen, where Zvezda shipyard is located).

In what town is that second dock?

My mistake, I mistook this yard:

http://dcss.ru/en/predpriyatiya/north-eastern-repair-center-jsc/

As being a separate entity to Zvezda...

I wonder what could be achieved with a 350,000 ton aircraft carrier, perhaps the ability to launch medium bombers, perhaps even a newer and smaller medium bomber based on the TU-22M3.

It would be too big... it would probably cost 50 billion or more for the Russians to make... 1 trillion for the Americans... and it would probably cost 5-10 billion a year just to operate...

To justify it you would have to invade countries all the time, which would make it pretty useless for the Russians again...

It will be used to build 2 long ships with 2 more smaller in the same time rather than a super heavy.

Indeed, instead of making one super huge boat that would be mostly useless, you could make 2 or 3 that were useful.

BTW 350KT tankers are not that much bigger than normal super carriers so it probably still wouldn't be anywhere near big enough for aircraft much different from those already deployed.

I think he is referring to the Kola shipyard being built by Novatek but it is only for LNG platforms, very unlikely place for CVN construction, THOUGH it could perhaps fabricate blocks then tow them to another shipyard to decrease construction time and avoid taking up dockspace.

No, simply mistaken....

It really wouldn't make much sense for Russia to build a lot of huge shipyards... they are never going to build large numbers of very large ships... their new build cruisers will probably be 20K tons or thereabouts... and two new CVNs at 70-90K tons and these new helicopter carriers at about 30K tons would be about as much as they would be wanting... the really big ships like oil tankers and gas tankers will be more immediately profitable anyway...

It would be even easier to sink a 70k ton CV and they cost enough money and resources already.

Do you think the PVO with all its planes and airborne radars including fighters improved the air defence capacity of Russia or made it more vulnerable with all those big exposed 3km and even 5km long runways...

The whole purpose of Zircon and other high speed missiles is because the air defences of a US carrier group are stronger than the air defences of the US or any HATO country... or even all the HATO countries combined.

Why do you think the Russian Navy should not have air defence capacity?

I mean if an aircraft carrier is vulnerable then so are destroyers and cruisers and once they are all gone subs are horribly vulnerable on their own too so how about a fleet of Corvettes, Frigates, and some SSKs and SSBs... if they stay in close to shore the army can protect them wiht their SAMs... and the Air Force can make all those bad enemy ships and subs go away with Kinzhals and Kh-32s and other air launched missiles... of course with no way of getting military power to Venezuela they will be invaded and asset stripped and so will Cuba and any other central and south american country that steps out of line... why should Russia care? Trading partners for Russia will be the difference between prosperity and isolation and poverty...

In fact the US aircraft carriers are incredibly vulnerable to something like the Zirkon, Kinzhal or even just Kh-32.

They are... but only if they piss off Russia and come to her land borders... if they sailed near Israel and Israel mistook them for an Egyptian transport ship and tried to sink her they would probably also have to smile and take it, because Israel is Americas ally...

As I heard NATO is very concerned by the missile; and have pretty much switched all resources to collapsing Russia now to mitigate the threat.

And the quickest way to collapse Russia is to block all access to trading partners and make you do business through the EU...

This is correct that the shipyard was primarily financed by Rosneft for construction of Oil and Gas tankers. However that does not mean that the Russian MOD can't place an order there in future and nobody in Zvezda management would be foolish enough to refuse such an order. Having said that, I don't think MOD is really thinking about aircraft carriers at the moment, I would be surprised if any aircraft carrier order is placed before 2030 at the earliest. .

Would agree if you said 2025-7 as the earliest date... as that will be when the K will be likely in good shape with everything working as it should and the two new helicopter carriers will be hitting the water and getting fitted out...

GarryB wrote:They are... but only if they piss off Russia and come to her land borders... if they sailed near Israel and Israel mistook them for an Egyptian transport ship and tried to sink her they would probably also have to smile and take it, because Israel is Americas ally...

They're going to have to spend a great deal of money to establish parity in this regard; by which I mean viable defensive systems
That's the first danger

The second danger is that other players will get ahold of these missiles, and really it's high time for Russia to move towards this.
Sponsoring Navalny in Russia, encouraging the collapse of Russia by proxy through the use of Ukrainian and Kazakhstani Nazis now actively trying to stoke the flames of ethnic tension in Russia, not to mention organizing the revolution in Belarus - well enough is enough quite honestly. They've practically declared war.

Wait for November, then when Trump is cheated in elections or simply overthrown, the globalists will have seized full power, and there would be nothing holding Russia back, from supplying MiG-31s and Kinzhals, as well as new vessels with Zirkons to North Korea, Iran, Venezuela at the minimum
That will give the globalists something to worry about in terms of maritime security.

They're going to have to spend a great deal of money to establish parity in this regard; by which I mean viable defensive systems
That's the first danger

They don't need parity. They will be sinking US carriers and US ships using missiles not carrier based aircraft, so whether one Russian carrier group is facing one US carrier group or all 10 it makes no difference... there will be more aircraft in the air for them to deal with, but assuming it is a 70-90K ton carrier with a decent number of fighters and AWACS platforms that will be cooperating together with cruise based heavy SAMs in enormous numbers... on paper you might say 10 US carrier groups will eventually break through but after the third US carrier is sunk and dozens of AEGIS class cruisers are sunk... how long will the US forces keep fighting against an enemy whose missiles they can't stop?

I mean lets turn it into a land battle and have 10,000 US Abrams tanks invading Russia and Russia defending itself with Kornet-EM ATGMs that can destroy Abrams tanks from the front at 8.5km range... you would say that if every single Abrams tank commits to the job at hand and rushes forward and attacks that the Russians might locally run out of missiles and they can progress to the next layer of the defence... but the real question you have to ask yourself is... does the US have the balls to take those sort of casualties just to engage a group of Russian ships at sea?

A Russian group of ships without carrier support is vulnerable but very well armed... they might be able to surprise it but those ships are very well defended.

With carrier support those ships will be even better defended but also much better able to see attacks as they form... they will be able to send out aircraft to investigate suspicious groups of ships or aircraft... which will tell them early on they are under attack, which means they can prepare radar and SAM systems and gun systems.

No. I don't think Russia should send their fleet out during WWIII to hunt western shipping... I would think most of the time in times of increased tension they will likely send a carrier group to any specific location where the tension is... and the other group would probably operate in the arctic...

The point is that a couple of CVNs will be enormously valuable in peacetime ensuring other countries don't interfere in smaller countries ability to trade openly and fairly with Russia.

The US doesn't want the rest of the world to realise there is an alternative to the 10% that the west represents... they run the international organisations and they control international commerce... why? Because they have the military power to enforce it...

But the Soviets had military power... why weren't they an important part of those int orgs... because their navy... like their air force and their army were optimised for defence and were never intended for global domination like western air forces and armies and navies... western militaries were always optimised for going somewhere else to fight, which made them useful for colonial duties which continue to this day.

And I am not saying Russia has to become like the west... if I was they would need 100K CVNs with strike planes and at least 6 of them so they could have a real presence out in the world.... But Russia has to expand out into the world and the easiest and cheapest way to do that is with their navy... Army bases and Airfields around the world would be more expensive and subject to loss in the event of regime change... and if Russia had large military bases in say somewhere like Syria would that increase or decrease the chances the west would support regime change?

The second danger is that other players will get ahold of these missiles, and really it's high time for Russia to move towards this.

Other countries are going to get these missiles.... which will put not just Russian ships but also buildings and facilities in Russia in danger... the solution is never to eradicate spending on the air force... Russia can use its skills with scramjets and start making scramjet powered anti scramjet powered missile missiles.

There are plenty of solutions that need investment and a combination of several of those will be best... but when you arrive at that then you will suddenly realise the best protected ships are the biggest ones that can carry the heavy air defence systems in numbers enough to make them useful... while the US and the west have probably decided to go for little boats in huge numbers... having too many targets never bothered the Japanese when they slaughtered millions of Chinese soldiers, or the Germans when they were shooting millions of Soviet soldiers... the western term is a turkey shoot... and it probably stops being fun after a while for the shooter, but in this case they will continue because its their job... imagine what it is like for the turkey...

Sponsoring Navalny in Russia, encouraging the collapse of Russia by proxy through the use of Ukrainian and Kazakhstani Nazis now actively trying to stoke the flames of ethnic tension in Russia, not to mention organizing the revolution in Belarus - well enough is enough quite honestly. They've practically declared war.

Communication is an important thing but sometimes the others don't listen, so reciprocal action is needed... I am sure a few hours of hacking into the US intel servers will reveal all their deepest fears... it doesn't actually take that much to get some people going... a lot of groups just need a bit of direction and minor funding... they are already nuts and ready to do everything for their cause...

Wait for November, then when Trump is cheated in elections or simply overthrown, the globalists will have seized full power, and there would be nothing holding Russia back, from supplying MiG-31s and Kinzhals, as well as new vessels with Zirkons to North Korea, Iran, Venezuela at the minimum

Actually I would think that would be counter productive... imagine a defecting pilot...

Selling Iran the licence to produce MiG-29M2s and Su-30s, which Iran could pay for in oil or stakes in oil fields or as investment etc...

The Democrats used to be the party of peace but now they are more blood thirsty than the Republicans... if Russia sold MiG-31s and Kinzhals to Venezuela Biden would probably fabricate an excuse to "invade" to save the Venezuelan people and give them democracy by removing the person they elected to rule them and replace him with a US friendly puppet that they nominate... What could Russia actually do? Send a frigate?

That will give the globalists something to worry about in terms of maritime security.

Honestly I don't think it matters who wins... there is going to be more wars... I think Trump might try to attack Iran... I suspect Biden will be more interested in Venezuela for their oil reserves and their close proximity... there is no chance of a Vietnam in America... is there?

If Trump wins I suspect the riots from the democrats will be terrible and people are going to die and lots of property damage is going to result because the democrats are sore losers in their ivory towers...

They blame everything and everyone else for their failures without looking at what they did and what they should have done... the US news media and the TV and movie people and of course all the liberal elite suffered from yes man syndrome... they weren't interested in any information that didn't suit their views and thought everyone agreed with them.... urbanisation does it... it separates you and isolates you into a little bubble.... you know the regulars at the coffee shop near where you work but you have no idea who your neighbours are... and when they get the shock that they are wrong an not everyone thinks the way they do there has to be a good reason.... Russian Hackers.

https://flotprom.ru/2020/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F%D0%92%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%84%D1%8C29/

New contract for the building of new production facilities and modernisation of the shipyard Severnaya Verf (Northern Yard) in Sankt Petersburg. The company, Domestic Systems and Technologies LLC, is one of Rostec suppliers.

Severnaya Verf signed a contract with a new contractor for the implementation of the first stage of modernization of the enterprise's production facilities in the amount of 7.8 billion rubles. According to Kommersant , the deal was concluded with Domestic Systems and Technologies LLC. According to the newspaper, this company, which is one of the suppliers of Rostec, has never been involved in such projects before.


The first stage of modernization of the Severnaya Verf production facility envisages the commissioning of a new slipway and a slipway, which will make it possible to build ships and ships up to 250 meters in length and with a displacement of up to 75 thousand tons.

I would think two narrower ships would be better... preferably new frigates to start with to help get their numbers in service up and then follow that up with some destroyers perhaps, and then move on to cruisers maybe.

250m is almost big enough to make new Orlans (Kirovs)... but I suspect new cruisers wont be quite as big or as heavy as their old Cold War Cruisers, but in terms of weapons and endurance they should be much better armed and equipped...

I've always wondered if it would take a decade for Russia to produce gas turbines and marine diesels, wouldn't it have made more sense to produce nuclear powered warships from the get go since there would be no delay in engine production because russia has extreme expertise in making marine NPPs? I think at this point lider or a nuclear powered super gorshkov would've been completed faster if their construction was started around 2010.

Also whats the current info on the zvezda snafu? Is it due to corruption and sabotage that the plant doesn't want to produce enough diesels?

limb wrote:I've always wondered if it would take a decade for Russia to produce gas turbines and marine diesels, wouldn't it have made more sense to produce nuclear powered warships from the get go since there would be no delay in engine production because russia has extreme expertise in making marine NPPs? I think at this point lider or a nuclear powered super gorshkov would've been completed faster if their construction was started around 2010.

Also whats the current info on the zvezda snafu? Is it due to corruption and sabotage that the plant doesn't want to produce enough diesels?

well they had also delays with reduction gears for the Gorshkov frigates , not only for the diesel engines...
One of the issue could also be that the plant did not receive a sufficient amount of orders for many years, and so lost human and material capabilities of maintaining a large scale production. In addition the problems can also be related to the suppliers of parts and materials used in the production of the engines... if they need some specific parts and those are produced by a firm that is not capable to increase production, than that is the bottleneck...

Anyway from what I understand some other companies in Russia may have the capability to produce those engines as well, and maybe they may have alternative suppliers as well... we will see


Concerning a nuclear propelled destroyer... many of the weapon systems now used in Gorshkov were still in development or testing in 2010... they would have only obtained either a very expensive sailing test bed, or a ship equipped with half of the internal and weapon systems from late soviet technology