Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

Arrow wrote:Even the USSR did not have such a powerful shipyard

From what I can understand, once completed it will be more or less equivalent to the sum of the 3 large shipyards in Nikolaev

With pictures:






https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2335536.html

It looks like a war zone but at least they are moving their asses a bit...

I am assuming the crane used to run along the central area that they are currently demolishing... would think their last step would be to get a large ship mounted crane to lift it over on to the side of the new much wider slip... or dismantle it and move it over in pieces.

Will they be able to build 60-80,000 ton carries here in the future ?

Backman wrote:Will they be able to build 60-80,000 ton carries here in the future ?

No. To be able to do that they need to invest billions in a dry dock.

JeremySun wrote:

Backman wrote:Will they be able to build 60-80,000 ton carries here in the future ?

No. To be able to do that they need to invest billions in a dry dock.

Yeah but could a dry dock and shipyard be built in this space in the future ?

I thought raw water frontage/space was the main factor in building a shipyard.

My understanding is that the Zvezda shipyards they have invested billions into already are intended for building big ships, though much of its time will be spent building 350K tankers for gas or oil, they are reportedly designed to allow the production of military vessels that use nuclear power and are up to about 400m long and 350K ton weight limit so a 70-90K ton carrier should not be a problem... but they need destroyers and new cruisers first which can be made in other shipyards along with Corvettes and Frigates and other support vessels.

The new ships are multifunction and sophisticated vessels, but once they are tested to work as expected and there are no obvious design problems then their modular design and sharing of components and systems across the fleet... ie the UKSK launcher is the same in any ship, though it might be replaced with a UKSK-M if that moves forward, so once they give a shipyard an order for 8-10 ships then they should be able to crank them out rather much faster because the whole concept of serial production requires modularity and standardisation, so material can be ordered in larger volumes and you can get up a rhythm to get the job done faster and more efficiently.

Maintenance docks are probably more important than production drydocks in shipyards.... such ships will spend a lot of time in a maintenance dock getting maintenance and upgrades throughout its life.... you will note that the Kuznetsov and Kiev class ships were made in Mordor, but did not go back to Mordor for maintenance... that was done in the northern fleet facilities... including a floating dock that later sank.

Taking them back to the place they were made for maintenance was not possible because it became a foreign country... plus it is not a good use for such facilities.

The Far East Zvezda shipyards will likely make the new CVNs, but they will want to take the Kuznetsov out for a spin to check new upgrades and improvements first and will certainly also want to get more new ships into the water that could support the new carriers before adding to their carrier fleet numbers.

The shipyards in the mean time will be building large tankers in the mean time because they will likely make good money on those projects, and it will depend on the final design for the new build cruisers as to whether they make them in a northern fleet shipyard or not... I rather suspect the new cruisers will have amazing armament but will probably be smaller and lighter than the Kirovs... though bigger than the Slavas.

Given the new carriers will be laid, at best and being quite optimistic, in 10-15 years, Zvezda can be through by then with the bulk of their civilian shipbuilding program to use the NSR and have some slot at the dry dock for the carrier. Plus the modular construction strategy may allow for it to be built in pieces and only occupy the dry dock for less time than with current building techniques. On top of that, the dry dock is so big, that they may build it together with another big ship in parallel and some smaller ones in the space that remains.

The other vessels will be built at Severnaya, Baltic shipyards and maybe other in the East, going into the future. Capability to handle the NPP is not going to be everywhere, and Sevmash is and will remain very busy with subs. The 35th SRZ will remain a maintenance dock probably, those are needed too.

I think it will  be more like 8-10 years. 10-15 is on the pessimistic side.

Backman wrote:I think it will  be more like 8-10 years. 10-15 is on the pessimistic side.

Before laying the carriers they need to, IMHO:

- Get a serious force of 22350
- A decent amount of 22350M
- Have enough attack subs
- Have at least tried some Lider or similar ship.

Maybe they go ahead before having tested the head of the Lider, if they feel confident enough and in order to have a new carrier before 2040, but there is a long way to go yet. They need to develop the capabilities one after the other to avoid major mistakes, that takes lots of time.

LMFS wrote:

Backman wrote:I think it will  be more like 8-10 years. 10-15 is on the pessimistic side.

Before laying the carriers they need to, IMHO:

- Get a serious force of 22350
- A decent amount of 22350M
- Have enough attack subs
- Have at least tried some Lider or similar ship.

Maybe they go ahead before having tested the head of the Lider, if they feel confident enough and in order to have a new carrier before 2040, but there is a long way to go yet. They need to develop the capabilities one after the other to avoid major mistakes, that takes lots of time.

According to reports out of the last Procurement Planning meetings covering up until the end of the decade, carriers are not a priority. Frigates and corvettes are.

franco wrote:According to reports out of the last Procurement Planning meetings covering up until the end of the decade, carriers are not a priority. Frigates and corvettes are.  

In the new arms program they will establish the plans for the carriers, but not build them. As said above, they need to see how the rebuild of the navy pans out and make sure the have their shipbuilding processes and schedule firmly in control before committing to the effort of building carriers.

There is no point laying new carriers any time soon... they have made changes and upgrades to the Kuznetsov... they need to get that back into the water and test it to see what works and what does not, but they need destroyers and cruisers in service to create ocean going naval groups that would require carrier support, plus all the land and sea infrastucture to support carrier ops.

I would think by 2030 they should be laying a hull of a carrier and will have finished corvette and frigate production with destroyers and cruisers in production too.

They don't want to end up like the British with two carriers and no serious support ships to operate with...

Carriers take time to get right and if you think you know what you are doing and know everything you can end up with a white elephant like the Ford Class.

It will be interesting to see how these 40K ton helicopter carriers turn out too... with one being a landing ship for naval infantry and the other appearing to be a helicopter and drone carrying carrier it will be interesting.

The possibility of other ships based on these being hospital ships could lead to up to 6 being built but I rather suspect like the Mistrals the ultimate plan is for four ships based in the Pacific and Northern Fleets... with Ivan Gren types in the Black Sea and Baltic Seas as well as the Med.

They will need destroyer and cruiser escorts too...

If sort out corvettes, frigates and subs then fiddling with carriers down the road will not be an issue because actually important things will have been sorted out

They have deployed MiG-31K aircraft with Kinzhal missiles... the important stuff is sorted already.

New Corvettes and a few Frigates will enable them to retire some old obsolete ships, but I don't think they will make a lot of new Frigates.... I suspect their improved Gorshkov will essentially be a light destroyer... well at 8K tons it might just be a destroyer that they could make 20-30 of to form the bulk of their different fleets.

An enlarged Cruiser type would be a natural evolution of that after they get some experience with them and everything would be good.

Note their reason for leaving that crane is that they had to demolish the join that way because the wall at that end supports the doors that keep the ocean out, and having a crane there would be useful to allow things to be put in or taken out.

I rather suspect they might put in a giant crane that has a gantry that goes right across the top that could then be used to lift out that middle crane as the ground under it will have to go eventually anyway.

Whether they keep those two small cranes or not will be interesting... a gantry crane right across the top would mean small cranes on the side would get in the way... so put them both on a ship and sail them to another dock and install them there for use.

Corvettes are little workhorses that are cheaper than bigger ships and their corvettes are rather capable ships with multirole potential well beyond previous generation corvettes or even previous gen frigates.

These little boats could be used for anti piracy roles where previously a much larger more expensive ship would be needed and tied up for a long time.

A Karakurt corvette with a support ship could remain on station for very long periods and would be cheaper to keep there than bigger ships but its helicopter and fast boats make it ideal for the job.

Idk if this is the right place for this but, what is with the news of a Turkish shipyard wining a contract for building a dry dock for Russia's Project 22220 Ice-breakers ?

A short topwar article mentioned it again today, they even claimed that if Russian shipyards competed for the contract they wouldn't have won due to "Inflated prices" and that it would cost 8-9 billion rubles as opposed to 5 billion for the Turkish company.

Edit: first time i've seen this was in a Turkish site if my memory doesn't betray me

GarryB wrote:There is no point laying new carriers any time soon... they have made changes and upgrades to the Kuznetsov... they need to get that back into the water and test it to see what works and what does not, but they need destroyers and cruisers in service to create ocean going naval groups that would require carrier support, plus all the land and sea infrastucture to support carrier ops.

I would think by 2030 they should be laying a hull of a carrier and will have finished corvette and frigate production with destroyers and cruisers in production too.

They don't want to end up like the British with two carriers and no serious support ships to operate with...

Carriers take time to get right and if you think you know what you are doing and know everything you can end up with a white elephant like the Ford Class.

It will be interesting to see how these 40K ton helicopter carriers turn out too... with one being a landing ship for naval infantry and the other appearing to be a helicopter and drone carrying carrier it will be interesting.

The possibility of other ships based on these being hospital ships could lead to up to 6 being built but I rather suspect like the Mistrals the ultimate plan is for four ships based in the Pacific and Northern Fleets... with Ivan Gren types in the Black Sea and Baltic Seas as well as the Med.

They will need destroyer and cruiser escorts too...

An 8,000 ton destroyer would have to be at least 155 meters long, preferably over 160 meters. Hell, not even Type 052D is 8,000 tons. It would take a major redesign and has very little resemblance to Gorshkov frigate.

An 8,000 ton destroyer would have to be at least 155 meters long, preferably over 160 meters. Hell, not even Type 052D is 8,000 tons. It would take a major redesign and has very little resemblance to Gorshkov frigate.

It does not need to resemble it... the point is to shift around the bits and pieces of the puzzle to make them fit better and work together better to allow more missiles to be carried for instance.

Turks made the best offer and won, pretty simple

Sounds fine to me. If they can do it on time and on budget then that is all good in my book... did that shipyard have experience or a model design ready to go do you know?