Podlodka77 wrote:The Russians should give up landing ships and instead build corvettes and frigates at Yantar. The best Russian shipyard for building surface warships is Baltic, but that shipyard is busy with the construction of nuclear icebreakers. Sevmash is not a problem, only money is needed. For God's sake, Sevmash has 30,000 workers.
The only thing I care about is speeding up the construction of Multipurpose Nuclear Submarines (SSGNs) while everything else is priority #2.
I cannot figure out why they decided to spend money on the landing ships at Yantar either. Maybe they were unhappy with the Ivan Gren design and wanted to figure out a new design which is more suitable? At the same time they did not even have gas turbines to put in frigates back then. They had several frigate hulls waiting for engines at Severnaya Verf as it was. The only viable alternative would have been to build corvettes I think.
Podlodka77 wrote:To Lancelot.....
Well, my friend, of all the bad decisions, the decision to build the project 11711 landing ships in Yantar is the worst.
Considering that I don't see at all in which campaign any Russian fleet will participate, I would build landing ships at some other time.
Russia needs corvettes, frigates and above all nuclear submarines - everything else can wait.
I am replying to a discussion from the 20380 thread and posting it here because this is a more appropriate thread for the discussion.
Hi Podlodka77, again I disagree. It is another interesting topic however.
First of all landing ships are fundamental and very useful Soviet union had many. Russia produced only a couple of them in the last 30 years and most of them were retired and the remaining ones are very long in the tooth.
A navy does not need only cool expensive ships. It needs also workhorses.
Yantar was the only shipyard in Russia with experience in building landing ships as there, in addition to destroyers also many landing ships of the alligator class (project 1171, about 4000 tons full load displacement) and 3 ships of the much larger Ivan rogov class (project 1174, up to 14000 tons full load) were built.
So it made perfectly sense to build landing ships there.
The problem with Ivan green class was also that the customer (Russian navy) changed the requirements many times after the ship was being built.
Anyway, most of the landing ships that were built in Yantar are now retired. Now only 3 remains. In addition there are about 15 project 775, ropucha class still in service. Those had similar size and displacement as alligator class, but were built in Danzig (Poland).
I believe the new modified Ivan gren class (3rd and 4th ships of the series) should be comparable in characteristics and displacements to the Italian San Giorgio class (around 8000 tons).
If so a few of those would complete very well the amphibious needs of russian navy, together with the new amphibious assault ships/helicopter carriers being built in Kerch and ideally a decent number of a modern equivalent to Alligator class or ropucha class with about 4000 tons displacement.
Those amphibious ships could also built in Nikolaev while they re-learn how to build navy ships.
So after Novorussia is fully liberated a rebuilt (hoping that its modernisation/rebuilding is better managed than what happened to severnaya verf) 61 Communara (Nikolaev north shipyard) could restart building large corvettes, before being promoted to larger ships.
The black sea shipyard, after removing the remains of the grain terminal can also be rebuilt/ modernised (they probably can still use a part of it to build smaller ships while the large drydocks are rebuilt).
In that case a new landing ship like a modern equivalent of ropucha class could be a good starting point since it is something that the navy needs and should not contain too much difficult technology.
That shipyard had several bad periods (after the soviet revolution it was derelict for several years, until the soviet decided to rebuild their fleet, and again after WW2 it was badly damaged, but I think that the worse had been peacetime independent Ukraine), so I believe it will rise again like a phoenix.