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    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:19 pm

    they probably exhaust above the waterline, perhaps some work needs to be done to ensure the exhaust is mixed with water so the soot does not fly
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    Post  ult Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:21 am

    Pavlovsk has been laid down.

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 35 IMG_20200729_113831_d_850

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/2020729624-SdTvC.html

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:58 am

    Don't think I have ever seen a clean burning diesel engine...
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    Post  hoom Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:06 am

    Finally some good clear shots of Odintsovo with the Pantsir-M
    As ever pics via Balancer forum
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 35 28-8885013-22800-odintsovo-morkanal-28.07.2020-01
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 35 28-8885017-22800-odintsovo-morkanal-28.07.2020-02
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 35 28-8885025-22800-odintsovo-morkanal-28.07.2020-03
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    Post  kumbor Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:27 pm

    What type are chaff launchers aft?
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:59 pm

    hoom wrote:Finally some good clear shots of Odintsovo with the Pantsir-M
    As ever pics via Balancer forum
    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 35 28-8885025-22800-odintsovo-morkanal-28.07.2020-03

    Well this should provide the ship with some decent air defence, good to see that they have not dropped the below dexk autoloader for the missiles.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:27 am

    What type are chaff launchers aft?

    PK-10 I think...

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/shipborne-weapons/pk-10/

    Or it could be the PK-16 with the fairing removed...
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    Post  hoom Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:32 am

    Well this should provide the ship with some decent air defence
    Literally 'without foreign analogues'.
    32* proven 20km ranged SAMs explicitly designed for taking out inbound supersonic missiles & 8* either 2500km ranged cruise-missiles or supersonic anti-ship missiles.

    Add to that they can mix in multi-purpose Sosna missiles for the Pantsir, expected future upgrades to 40km SAMs, smaller quad-pack anti-drone missiles & hypersonic Zirkon.

    All on an offshore optimised 800ton hull.
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    Post  Hole Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:42 am

    Don´t forget the nice gun.
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    Post  Isos Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:32 am

    Karakurt is proposed for export :

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/surface-ships-ships-and-boats/project-22800-karakurt/

    Pozitiv-ME 1.2 3D radar:
    Detection range of an air target, km – 150.

    Mineral-ME radar:
    Detection range of a sea-surface target, km – up to 450.

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    Post  marat Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:34 am

    Hole wrote:Don´t forget the nice gun.

    But does it have engine?
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:52 pm

    marat wrote:
    Hole wrote:Don´t forget the nice gun.

    But does it have engine?

    Asking the right questions

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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:01 am

    The one with the Pantsir system above is clearly underway... so I would say yes.
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    Post  Arrow Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:41 am

    Will the Karakut be equipped with new 40 km range Pantsir missiles?
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    Post  marat Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:51 am

    GarryB wrote:The one with the Pantsir system above is clearly underway... so I would say yes.

    Yes she has but what is situation with 3-4 others which were launched, will they be finished this year?
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:48 am

    If they have not plans to continue to build them then it would make sense to make the ones they have into export designs and sell them to foreign customers who have not problems sourcing engine parts.

    The fact that they are continuing to build them suggests they have plans regarding propulsion options...
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    Post  hoom Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:16 pm

    There is definitely still major problems with engine production & no particular sign of improvement from what various Russian language sources have to say.
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    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 35 Empty Engines

    Post  calripson Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:33 pm

    I can't believe the Chinese can't produce engines of this type. Just source them from China.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:35 pm

    hoom wrote:There is definitely still major problems with engine production & no particular sign of improvement from what various Russian language sources have to say.

    Careful your speaking against the narrative.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:58 am

    I can't believe the Chinese can't produce engines of this type. Just source them from China.

    They already bought some from China to replace the German diesels, and they were terrible.

    They broke down repeatedly... almost as if they were shoddy copies instead of licence produced.

    Careful your speaking against the narrative.

    Yeah, I might ban him for not being positive enough like the 20 times I have banned you for not being positive and pro Russia... today. Rolling Eyes

    Things take time... there are very sensible and very real reasons why they used foreign engines in the first place, but because the Ukraine and the Germans are total censored and have let Russia down, Russia finds itself in the position of needing to develop its own alternative engines.

    It never made them before because in the Soviet Union that was what the Ukraine did... it made marine engines.

    Well now that the Ukraine has cut Russia off completely and Germany has done the same Russia is having to develop and build engines to replace the ones they can't get from the Ukraine and Germany.

    They are not going to spend money and time just making the same engines... they need to build a new factory able to handle the job and to hopefully make other sized engines as well, but they will start by looking at the original design and then working out how to make it better... both making a better performing engine, but also making it quickly and cheaply from materials that are not expensive. Once they have that sorted out they need to thoroughly test the design and check it works and will work for a reasonable period of time without problems... in warm waters and in cold waters...

    Once they have got viable engines they can start making them in volume and also offer to sell them to the Chinese too, and perhaps even the Germans.

    There is no point in trying to sell to the Ukraine because they wont have any ships big enough to need them.

    Even if the Ukraine or Germany said sorry... it was all a big misunderstanding why can't we just get along Russia should say thanks but no thanks... you did it once, you could do it any time in the future without warning... we don't trust you... you are not reliable... we can make these things ourselves and probably make a better product in the end.

    It also means we can build up our military buy making a lot of these useful little ships without sending our money to a foreign countrys economy.

    This is a very good thing even though it is annoying right at the moment... it is not just about buying engines it is about maintenance and support and spare parts... Germany and the Ukraine would likely demand payment in US dollars or perhaps Euros, so this means they can save money by not having to convert to foreign currencies for payment too...

    Diesels this size are also often used as backup power supplies in large businesses too...

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    Post  medo Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:14 am

    Arrow wrote:Will the Karakut be equipped with new 40 km range Pantsir missiles?

    Considering, that naval Pantsir-M is equipped with engagement radar and EO complex from Pantsir-SM, than I would say yes.

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 35 19035310

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 35 Pantsi10

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    Post  LMFS Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:26 am

    GarryB wrote:Well now that the Ukraine has cut Russia off completely and Germany has done the same Russia is having to develop and build engines to replace the ones they can't get from the Ukraine and Germany.

    In fact I think the West has badly overplayed their hand and wasted their best cards too early, when they should have kept Russia vulnerable to Western military supplies for the case of a real conflict (not to talk about avoiding creating a new competitor and loosing billions in revenue...). The only thing they have achieved is to make sure Russia becomes watertight to their blackmail, at the cheap price of slightly delaying their naval construction plans. Who cares they have a 5-years delay for some ship classes, if they can still deter the West from attacking them?
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    Post  LMFS Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:28 am

    I had not realized how similar the radar in Pantsir is compared to the one at the mast of the Odintsovo:

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 35 EeaHvAWWkAA05ng?format=jpg&name=small

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 35 EeaTR-UXoAAS67l?format=jpg&name=small

    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship - Page 35 90a2678d-5711-4df2-8f8c-748978db42211-500x275

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    Post  hoom Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:13 am

    Yes the mast is clearly 4* the Pantsir-S2 radar.
    Supposedly 2* Pantsir-S2 can operate with their radars non-rotating at 90deg to each other with 360deg coverage.
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    Post  LMFS Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:41 pm

    hoom wrote:Yes the mast is clearly 4* the Pantsir-S2 radar.
    Supposedly 2* Pantsir-S2 can operate with their radars non-rotating at 90deg to each other with 360deg coverage.

    I can only think this is a very smart way to bring very reasonable AD capacity at a reduced price to a 800 t vessel. And if that was not enough, we saw a further evolution of the class, just slightly bigger but with 16 UKSK cells and Redut on it. In view of the current construction times for bigger ships, they can use the 22800 to ramp up the military potential of the VMF considerably in half a decade or so...

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