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    VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:49 am

    Nice - new contract expected in 2014 and 2015

    KLA and the Ministry of Defense in 2015, sign contracts for another 170 aircraft
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    Post  mack8 Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:30 am

    Viktor wrote:Nice - new contract expected in 2014 and 2015

    KLA and the Ministry of Defense in 2015, sign contracts for another 170 aircraft

    OK, some number crunching, corrections welcomed: estimated perhaps 30-50 Yak-130, 30-50 Su-30SM, 48-64 Su-35S, another 24? MiG-29KR/KUBR, 16-20 MiG-29SMT, and perhaps the first 10 pre-production T-50, or perhaps a full order for 48-60 if orders for the other types are on the lower side? Plus the MiG-35 contract (24-48?) seems to be in addition to these 170-180 aircraft, no?
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:55 am

    More Yaks; the mentioned the new batch would be bigger than the last one, and that is just VVS.
    MiG-29SMT depends on MiG-35 status.
    New K/KUB orders is a surprise to me honestly.
    New SMs will probably be to fulfill the VMF wanting 50 birds.
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:02 am

    mack8 wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Nice - new contract expected in 2014 and 2015

    KLA and the Ministry of Defense in 2015, sign contracts for another 170 aircraft

    OK, some number crunching, corrections welcomed: estimated perhaps 30-50 Yak-130, 30-50 Su-30SM, 48-64 Su-35S, another 24? MiG-29KR/KUBR, 16-20 MiG-29SMT, and perhaps the first 10 pre-production T-50, or perhaps a full order for 48-60 if orders for the other types are on the lower side? Plus the  MiG-35 contract (24-48?) seems to be in addition to these 170-180 aircraft, no?

    I think it is still prematurely to speak about on what might those numbers reffer to but I think this info will make worthy addition once singing of contracts starts. Imagine if all

    the things you just mentioned are signed during 2014 leaving 170 contract planes to be signed in 2015  Very Happy  Very Happy 


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    Post  Austin Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:13 am

    Jabs: AN-70 does not need the Russian Federation, as Ukraine does not eliminate its shortcomings

    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20140628/1013986492.html


    "I policy in this matter was not engaged, but when I took the Air Force AN-70 was recommended for mass production, but I looked at the act - there are four defects, which is impossible because even if one of them to recommend serial production ", - said Mikhailov in the" General Staff "radio RSN .

    Former commander explained that he demanded the removal of the four gaps and complete a full test cycle. "There were conflicts with the documentation, they are not allowed to this day, although Serdyukov money pumped into this program again, quite a lot. Now they're buried and useless again, so you need to anticipate and feel with whom you work, and do not give them any money before time. Flirting in this matter is unacceptable, "- he added.


    Mikhailov said that, if we compare the AN-70 and IL-476 in terms of efficiency, cost, and other parameters, "476 car two to three times better in all respects than the An-70."
    TheArmenian
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    Post  TheArmenian Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:29 am

    Interesting recent TV program.

    From 2:45 watch the remont/restoration/modernization of Su-25 and other warplanes in the factory.
    There are alos other interesting bits in the 20 minute program: Peter the Great cruiser, Space rockets and Terminator.

    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:25 am

    http://russianplanes.net/id140153
    http://russianplanes.net/id140157
    http://russianplanes.net/id140157

    The new camo for the attack helos. Don't like the Mi-35 one. The Mi-28 actually looks nice.
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:00 pm

    Something new is coming our way  Very Happy  thumbsup 

    SERIAL PRODUCTION OF MODERNIZED MI-28N HELICOPTERS PREPARING TO RUSSIA
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    Post  Austin Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:21 pm

    They says its for Su-35

    http://www.npk-spp.ru/deyatelnost/avionika/126-optiko-elektronnaya-razvedka-.html


    Wonder how it works ?

    Does this have IR and TV channel or one of them ?

    Does it aid weapon system like A2A missile ?

    Any one who understands russian can translate ?
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:49 pm

    The SU 35S & the PAK FA will need to find a replacement for the R-37M .

    As far as I can tell there are two replacements for R-73M... the R-73M2 which will have an upgraded seeker and lock on after launch capability but similar range performance to the R-73 with a kinematic range of up to 45km in a high speed high altitude engagement in the head on aspect.

    the other missile is called Morfei and will be a much shorter range weapon with full thrust vectoring rocket engine, very few external flight surfaces and an IIR seeker using a QWIP sensor... it will have a range of about 10-15 km in the air to air model and half that for the ground launched or sea launched models.

    it will be a fairly high acceleration missile with very accurate guidance and will likely be used as an anti missile missile by both aircraft and ships and ground forces.

    Compared to missiles like the IRIS - T the R37M has less G and lacks Lock-On After Launch .

    But it does have a much longer range... 300km for the R-37M and 45km for the R-73M, which I think you are really talking about.

    That's not to say that the R 37M is not a good missile . It of course has good range and good HOBS capability but the Russian philosophy has always been to defeat enemy fighters at WVR ( something that NATO is realizing of late) . And for this high G and LOAL are an absolute must .

    With thrust vectoring aircraft and helmet mounted sights it is less of an issue to be honest. In normal combat the first thing you want is to maximise your kill probability by getting on the other guys tail before locking and firing. With R-73 the pilot really just needs to look, lock and fire, with Seeker sensitivity and ECCM being good enough to get a lock from any angle to the point where getting your shot off early becomes important because the missile closes on the target far faster than an aircraft can get on the tail of an enemy aircraft... Tests in the 1990s where MiG-29s with R-73s fought F-16s about 62% of the time the Falcons got on the tail of the MiGs but 100% of the time the F-16s were shot down already before the Falcons got into a position to shoot.

    Up until then the west was paying lip service to the next generation AAMs... AMRAAM and ASRAAM. Once they realised what a threat R-73 was they shifted focus from Sidewinders to AMRAAMs in a big way because even with Uber ASRAAM short range AAMs if the target could launch an R-73 even after you have launched your ASRAAM or IRIS-T or whatever then there was a good chance he was going to get you even if you got him... much better to stand off 20km and fired AMRAAMs.


    Wonder how it works ?

    Does this have IR and TV channel or one of them ?

    The top part is like DAS and is a distributed IR/EO sensor to detect and track targets all round the aircraft.

    The lower part is DIRCMs... laser directed dazzler to blind optically and IR and laser guided weapons.
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    Post  Austin Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:57 pm

    Thanks Garry , So when you say EO you mean video channel or something else.

    How does the EO picture looks like ?
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    Post  RTN Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:32 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    But it does have a much longer range... 300km for the R-37M and 45km for the R-73M, which I think you are really talking about.

    Yes , but you need to guide such missiles that have such great range .

    The MIG 29 used the LAZUR data link but the Su 35S does not use LAZUR .

    So obviously the Su 35S ( and PAK FA ) will need a cutting edge Data Link system like NATO's Link 16 in order to share information with other Su 35S (PAKFA) , MIG 31 or even A 50 .

    Legacy Su 27 used the TKS-2-27 . But that is only for intra flight datalink and compared to LINK 16 it had inferior bandwith .


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    Post  TR1 Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:48 pm

    The thing Austin posted is just optical missile and aircraft tracking and warning systems. No DIRCM.

    And yes, it has been on Su-35 for a while.
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    Post  Viktor Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:31 am

    New Tu-214ON  thumbsup 

    Second Tu-214ON was handed the Russian Air Force
    George1
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    Post  George1 Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:51 am

    Viktor wrote:New Tu-214ON  thumbsup 

    Second Tu-214ON was handed the Russian Air Force

    this type is for open skies project between countries
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    Post  Austin Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:23 am

    TR1 wrote:The thing Austin posted is just optical missile and aircraft tracking and warning systems. No DIRCM.

    And yes, it has been on Su-35 for a while.

    So TR1 , This is optical and IR missile/aircraft tracking or just Optical.

    Does it provide  firecontrol tracking for weapons like AAM
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:54 am

    The lower part is DIRCMs... laser directed dazzler to blind optically and IR and laser guided weapons.

    Oops, not, it is a laser marker detector to detect enemy laser target marking systems.

    So when you say EO you mean video channel or something else.

    How does the EO picture looks like ?

    It would include IR spectrum to scan for heat plume of incoming rocket or missile and heated nose tip of incoming rocket or missile, or moving IR signature to detect targets or threats.

    the system does not produce and image for the pilot, it collects data on threats and likely passes data to the self defence suite which will then automatically act to defend the aircraft.

    Yes , but you need to guide such missiles that have such great range .

    No it doesn't. As long as the radar is powerful enough to detect targets at long range it can compute an interception solution and transmit that solution to the missile while it is still in the weapon bay. Upon launch if the target changes speed or direction or both course corrections can be sent via radar link.

    The MIG 29 used the LAZUR data link but the Su 35S does not use LAZUR .

    So obviously the Su 35S ( and PAK FA ) will need a cutting edge Data Link system like NATO's Link 16 in order to share information with other Su 35S (PAKFA) , MIG 31 or even A 50 .

    Aircraft operated by the PVO used digital datalinks since the early 1980s... 1977 for the MiG-31.

    the R-37M has been intended for use by the MiG-29M, Su-27M, and Pak Fa since the 1980s. Do you think they would forget to include the necessary hardware?

    BTW the first test of R-37M used an Su-30 to track the target and pass back target data to the MiG-31M with the old model Zaslon radar, so it never even saw the target when it launched its missile.

    More importantly such a large powerful missile is valuable over shorter ranges as it can be launched from lower altitudes and still outrange most enemy missiles while its higher average speed will get it to enemy targets faster than their shorter range missiles can manage.

    But that is only for intra flight datalink and compared to LINK 16 it had inferior bandwith .

    Why do you think bandwidth is important? Target coordinates, speed and current course is all that is needed to do the calculations.

    Does it provide firecontrol tracking for weapons like AAM

    It is not part of the fire control system and does not use the IRST or radar... it is MAWS.
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    Post  medo Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:54 am

    Austin wrote:
    TR1 wrote:The thing Austin posted is just optical missile and aircraft tracking and warning systems. No DIRCM.

    And yes, it has been on Su-35 for a while.

    So TR1 , This is optical and IR missile/aircraft tracking or just Optical.

    Does it provide  firecontrol tracking for weapons like AAM

    It depend on missiles. If new R-73 or other missile have lock on after launch capabilities, than this complex could easily give azimuth of target to missile to engage it. But anyone, in central computer all datas from all sensors are collected and presented, so through those sensors protection complex will be activated and engagement complex will be activated against those targets. So either pilot will turn plane against it or computer will send a missile against it without turning the airplane.
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    Post  RTN Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:44 am

    GarryB wrote:
    the R-37M has been intended for use by the MiG-29M, Su-27M, and Pak Fa since the 1980s. Do you think they would forget to include the necessary hardware?

    Ok , so you are saying that Su 35S & PAK-FA will be using a different data link and not Lazur ?
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:21 pm

    Ok , so you are saying that Su 35S & PAK-FA will be using a different data link and not Lazur ?

    They are both supposed to be fitted with L band AESA arrays in their wing roots. L Band is commonly used for datalinks including Link 16.

    Mindstorm probably has more information on the subject, but the PVO have been using long range datalinks for decades... and the PVO had plenty of Su-27s in service, and indeed was the primary user of the Su-30.
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    Post  Austin Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:17 pm

    GarryB wrote:It would include IR spectrum to scan for heat plume of incoming rocket or missile and heated nose tip of incoming rocket or missile, or moving IR signature to detect targets or threats.

    the system does not produce and image for the pilot, it collects data on threats and likely passes data to the self defence suite which will then automatically act to defend the aircraft.

    How is this different from DAS ?

    Does DAS produce 360 * image for the pilot ?
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    Post  Sujoy Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:14 pm

    RTN wrote: Ok , so you are saying that Su 35S & PAK-FA will be using a different data link and not Lazur ?

    Lazur is generall used by Mig 29 .

    Sukhoi uses the POLYOT-built K-DlAE and K-DlUE communications/data-link suite . This data link system is at par with Link 16 .
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:27 pm

    How is this different from DAS ?

    Does DAS produce 360 * image for the pilot ?

    It is not different from DAS. Both scan the skies looking for threats or targets and feed the data they collect into the ESM/ECM suite.

    Neither produce visuals for the pilot.

    On the MiG-35 there will be an upper IRST and lower IRST optical system that will provide optical imagery for the pilot for engaging both ground and air targets.

    A targeting pod like Damocles can offer the same, though the IRST system of the MiG-35 is full 360 degree.

    Ok , so you are saying that Su 35S & PAK-FA will be using a different data link and not Lazur ?

    Pretty much all new Russian gear will have datalink equipment... from MBTs and IFVs through to helos and air defence systems... even ships will use the Sigma-S system of data sharing that can be used for targeting and guidance.

    Network in A-100 AWACS and even satellites and ground radar and datalinks will be every where.
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    Post  RTN Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:On the MiG-35 there will be an upper IRST and lower IRST optical system that will provide optical imagery for the pilot for engaging both ground and air targets.

    A targeting pod like Damocles can offer the same, though the IRST system of the MiG-35 is full 360 degree.

    Currently the IRST on any aircraft does not offer any significant benefit in the visual bubble other than in the F-35 (probably) where the coverage is 360 degrees.

    Essentially, coverage of IRST is similar to radar albeit in azimuth only. While the IRST has the inherent advantage of a passive sensor, an alternate source is required for ranging (essential for enabling missile launch solutions).

    The advantage that it mainly offers is of a silent launch of a passive guided missile once the target ac is within the IRST envelope.
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    Post  Austin Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:48 am

    I think from what I read its both an IR and Optical System combined.

    It mentions spherical Video environment i.e EO and IR based 3-5 microns

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