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Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

GarryB: Posts : 24543
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Post n°801

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

GarryB on Tue May 19, 2020 12:03 pm

Russia could also buy back & finish the Varyag at Nikolayev shipyard.
But getting some of the Tu-95s/160s from Ukraine was more important at the time.

Russia would not have tried to do that because at the time they weren't even using the Kuznetsov... where would they get the money to complete the Varyag?

The Bears and Blackjacks were and are much more important.

They don't need two Soviet era aircraft carriers... just one to maintain skills and to perform duties until a proper replacement is ready in the form of a new design CVN.

It might be smaller than the Varyag, but it will be vastly more capable.

not if it is going to be fought with conventional &/ tactical nuclear arms only.

If it earns the title WWIII then there is little chance nuclear weapons will not be used...

Russia seeks to prevent WWIII, only the US tries to find ways to "win" WWIII. Imagine if in the current context Kuz was ready to go, and Russia decided to sail a convoy of ships to deliver aid to Venezuela and Kuz went along to support the convoy. I don't think anyone would dare to mess with it, esp knowing a Yassen class was probably prowling within a few hundred KM. Anything that came within a few hundred KM would be visited by MIG-29 with KH-31.

Exactly... in a WWIII scenario how long would any ship last anyway? During "peace time" having air power to cover your surface ships is critical...

Air power adds a layer of defence that is fast and flexible, and also boosts protection by putting radar into the air so sneak attacks are no longer possible and aircraft can deliver anti aircraft missiles to where they are needed at near supersonic speed, so if you want to overwhelm some ships with missiles you need a rather large number of extra missiles for that to even be likely.

Iran could pay for escorting its tankers on their way there now!

Cheaper to send a small ship like a Corvette... you don't need to sink the US fleet in such a situation, but having an armed presence that may or may not include Onyx and soon Zircon missiles really sends a message.

The imminent threat of a US invasion in Venezuela would mean a Russian presence could blunt that threat... but how long could a corvette stay?

The Kirov with the Kuznetsov and a couple of Udaloys and a new frigate could paddle around there for a month doing exercises and showing the flag and escorting vessels to and from the country...

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°802

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Tsavo Lion on Tue May 19, 2020 5:03 pm

Russia would not have tried to do that because at the time they weren't even using the Kuznetsov... where would they get the money to complete the Varyag? ..They don't need two Soviet era aircraft carriers... just one to maintain skills and to perform duties until a proper replacement is ready in the form of a new design CVN.

Agree, but they could at least taken it to Sevmash & preserve it till better times. A 2nd CV would allow for extra training, deploymens, & naval diplomacy.
Now the PLAN will use it & her sister ship to defend E. Eurasia maritime approaches & make the US & their allies' lives miserable- payback for using China's card against the USSR during the Cold War.

The Kirov with the Kuznetsov and a couple of Udaloys and a new frigate could paddle around there for a month doing exercises and showing the flag and escorting vessels to and from the country...

only if they have the $ to pay for it. Iran could also get those tankers under its naval flag & put marines/soldiers on board. Stopping them would be an act of war, with all bad outcomes for the US in the Gulf, Iraq, Afghanistan, & Syria.

GarryB

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Post n°803

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

GarryB on Wed May 20, 2020 8:06 am

Agree, but they could at least taken it to Sevmash & preserve it till better times. A 2nd CV would allow for extra training, deploymens, & naval diplomacy.

The problem I would see is that the Varyag, being about 68% complete might just have been picked for parts to keep the Kuznetsov operating, improving the Kuznetsovs performance but also making the Varyag less viable.

In their current situation I think having a second carrier would drive more pressure to reviving more Kirov cruisers and more push for the Slava class cruisers to be upgraded, but ultimately I think the extra cost of a second carrier would actually slow progress in more areas than it benefited Russia to have two carriers.

I think China will get better use out of her than Russia will... the obvious issue for Russia is that they wont need dozens of carriers so just having one CV means they will likely build 2 or more CVNs when the time comes... because there will be more money available for it...

Now the PLAN will use it & her sister ship to defend E. Eurasia maritime approaches & make the US & their allies' lives miserable- payback for using China's card against the USSR during the Cold War.

Well exactly... I think it will benefit China rather more than it would benefit Russia.... it was a chance for them to learn a lot, and I don't like to think what price the Ukrainians would have demanded from Russia if they were to buy it... if they would have even sold it to them in the first place...

only if they have the $ to pay for it. Iran could also get those tankers under its naval flag & put marines/soldiers on board. Stopping them would be an act of war, with all bad outcomes for the US in the Gulf, Iraq, Afghanistan, & Syria.

In terms of exercises they would benefit both sides and boost confidence in the ability of Russia to help when the US or the west decides to go all colonial on them... for escorts then relatively small corvettes could be used so it does not cost more than it is worth but I am sure Iran or Venezuela would compensate Russia for the service if everyone was reasonable about it...

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°804

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Tsavo Lion on Wed May 20, 2020 8:26 am

..for escorts then relatively small corvettes could be used..

Iran too has such ships but they have less endurance & seakeeping ability; better to arm a large merchant ship, sail it under St. Andrew's flag, add a few UAVs/helos & SSNs to escort the tankers.
As they approach S. America, Tu-95/142s, IL-38s & Su-30s could assist the convoy to keep the wolves away.

Drydock construction hurles: https://www.rbc.ru/business/21/05/2020/5ec285979a794788db079940

Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Thu May 21, 2020 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)

owais.usmani

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Post n°805

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

owais.usmani on Sat May 23, 2020 8:01 pm

https://ria.ru/20200521/1571789287.html

USC terminated the contract for modernization of Admiral Kuznetsov with the contractor

MOSCOW, May 21 - RIA News. United Shipbuilding Corporation (OSK) terminated the contract with the company Investments. Engineering. Construction JSC (I.I.S. JSC) for the construction of a dry dock for the repair of the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov , but this is not will affect, told RIA Novosti on Thursday the head of the corporation Alexei Rakhmanov .
Earlier in the media, information appeared that the company I.I.S. filed a complaint with the Prosecutor General against customers of the Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center construction site and the USC, who allegedly created impossible conditions for the continuation of the dock construction.

"The agreement with I.I.S. JSC was canceled the day before. We are now discussing the choice of a new contractor. There is a choice of three large Russian companies owned by responsible Russian businessmen. The need to start docking the ship was agreed with each of these potential contractors - summer 2021, in order to be in time to deliver it to the customer in 2022, "Rakhmanov said.

In addition, he noted, the previous contractor should report for the spent 900 million from the advance of 2.6 billion rubles.
"The financial condition of the company is unsatisfactory, they took an advance much more than they completed the work. This is not more than 1 percent of the first stage, worth seven billion rubles out of 24," said the head of USC.

As an example, he said that the contractor scored a total of 145 piles out of 728 necessary for the device jumpers and pumping water, in order to subsequently begin work in the dry dock.
At the same time, JSC I.I.S. complains about USC that the customer has created conditions in which reconstruction of the dock becomes impossible. In particular, "I.I.S." received an advance of 2.6 billion rubles from the promised advance of 7.1 billion rubles, and Zvezdochka did not pay approximately 800 million rubles for actually completed work. Also, Zvezdochka delayed the provision of design estimates for the first stage of reconstruction for more than six months, and the second - has not yet been sent, the contractor complained.
In December last year, the “Admiral Kuznetsov” ignition occurred in the first power unit as a result of a spark from welding work entering the hold where fuel was spilled. The fire was extinguished for nearly a day, two people were killed, more than ten were injured. The damage was estimated at 500 million rubles. The head of USC told RIA Novosti that the fire will not affect the deadline for the ship to the fleet in 2022 after repair and modernization. Now the ship is under repair in Murmansk .

Rodion_Romanovic

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Post n°806

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Rodion_Romanovic on Sat May 23, 2020 9:16 pm

Unfortunately it is not the first time that there are problems with the companies involved with expansions or modernisations of shipyards. Also the first company that was working on the expansion of Severnaya Verf in saint Petersburg had issues, and did not perform the work...

I do not know if it is a larger problem due to people and companies to embezzling state money, to the state or USC not planning the work properly or if they are just unfortunate cases.
I just hope that this kind of situation will not continue to happen and that they already found good replacement company that will perform the requested work with the required time and money spent...

Btw, about wasting state money... in Berlin they are finally planning to open the new airport this fall (after at least 9 years of delays and several billions euro wasted) ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/29/world/europe/berlin-brandenburg-airport-opening.html

GarryB

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Post n°807

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

GarryB on Sun May 24, 2020 8:03 am

A wee bit deceptive that title... when I read it I thought the company doing the repairs on the Kuznetsov had been fired, but according to the article it is the company that was going to build the dry dock the Kuznetsov is going to be repaired in has been let go... really not the same thing...

Regarding escorts for those tankers... Oil tankers are huge and normally have cabin space for some passengers who don't like flying or love the sea, so rather than send ships to escort it would make sense to just send a two dozen squad for each ship armed with small arms like SVD sniper rifles and 12.7mm sniper rifles and of course PKP MMGs and Kord HMGs and of course a few boxes of RPGs and Iglas to defend the ships from sea or air attack or from boarding parties...