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Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Rodion_Romanovic

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Post n°826

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Rodion_Romanovic on Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:18 am

GarryB wrote:
For Russian aircraft and ships however it is evidence they don't know what they are doing... even more ironic is that the RD-33 is a very solid engine that can cope with regular airflow changes including reverse airflows in tail slides and other high angle manouvers... but all that is mentioned is that they put out a little smoke in max dry thrust...

Actually the latest version of that engine the RD-33MK, the one that is on the Mig29K, mig35 and possibly in the newly built Mig29M/M2, in addition to having longer service life, higher thrust and being digitally controlled, should also have solved the black smoke problem of the earlier mig29

GarryB

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Post n°827

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

GarryB on Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:28 am

Actually the latest version of that engine the RD-33MK, the one that is on the Mig29K, mig35 and possibly in the newly built Mig29M/M2, in addition to having longer service life, higher thrust and being digitally controlled, should also have solved the black smoke problem of the earlier mig29

Agree... but my comments are directed at trolls that think smoky engines mean anything at all.

When it comes to performance making the engines not smoke any more would be pretty low on my list and I suspect on theirs too.

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°828

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Tsavo Lion on Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:31 pm

Some USN ships also smoked heavily, but still beat the IJN:
https://www.thoughtco.com/uss-north-carolina-bb-55-2361550

https://www.amazon.com/Trumpeter-Maryland-BB-46-1945-Building/dp/B010LWKN30

Even if Adm K. will continue to smoke, if if it's not taken out of action by the Covid-19/20/21 like the CVN-71 was, it won't make much of difference for its potential enemy.

Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:28 am; edited 1 time in total

JohninMK

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Post n°829

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

JohninMK on Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:21 pm

Just for smiles, a pair of Luftwaffe F-4F Laughing

Reminds me of a destroyer laying a smoke screen.

Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 34 Ebl8dBfWoAUeinS?format=jpg&name=large

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Big_Gazza

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Post n°830

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Big_Gazza on Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:58 pm

Given the BS from Yankistani sources over the recent tribulations with the Kuznetsov (sinking of PD-50 & subsequent fire) it is pleasing to see a little karma hitting them in the teeth...

Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 34 54166205_303

Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 34 54166205_303

RIP USS Bonhomme Richard, I wonder if the USN will bother trying to repair her after this. It looks bad but maybe, like the K, the damage will be less than widely expected (IMHO however, this is the second day of the fire and I expect she may be a right-off).

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owais.usmani

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Post n°831

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

owais.usmani on Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:10 pm

Big_Gazza wrote:
RIP USS Bonhomme Richard, I wonder if the USN will bother trying to repair her after this. It looks bad but maybe, like the K, the damage will be less than widely expected (IMHO however, this is the second day of the fire and I expect she may be a right-off).

Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 34 Firesh16

LMFS

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Post n°832

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

LMFS on Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:15 pm

Just look how it is melting away Embarassed

Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 34 Ec35YmbWsAE3rSA?format=png&name=900x900

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walle83

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Post n°833

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

walle83 on Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:00 pm

Well in pure number of vessels a singel Wasp isnt that a big deal for the us navy. Not a single Wasp has so far been retired and 2 America class has been added since 2014.
I gess they could even reactivate the two Tarawana they still have in reserve, the USS Nassau and the USS Peleliu. The Peleliu was placed in reserve just in 2015 and should be in a ok state.

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°834

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Tsavo Lion on Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:36 pm

Well in pure number of vessels a singel Wasp isnt that a big deal for the us navy. Not a single Wasp has so far been retired and 2 America class has been added since 2014. I guess they could even reactivate the two Tarawana they still have in reserve, the USS Nassau and the USS Peleliu. The Peleliu was placed in reserve just in 2015 and should be in a ok state.

Ditto. But Trump may just say: to save $, deploy the rest of them less.
https://ria.ru/20200714/1574333421.html
https://vz.ru/world/2020/7/14/1049787.print.html

Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

Singular_Transform

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Post n°835

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Singular_Transform on Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:26 pm

The amphibious assault ships and carriers has minor utility anyway.

They are nive for the show, but has next to 0 usage in real war.

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°836

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Tsavo Lion on Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:42 pm

If it was true, China, Japan & Russia wouldn't be building them.

GarryB

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Post n°837

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

GarryB on Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:59 am

They are nive for the show, but has next to 0 usage in real war.

In a war that is an invasion of Venezuela it would be very useful, but against Russia/China not much use at all as it would be too vulnerable.

I would normally remove the posts regarding this US ship from this thread but I find it rather interesting as a contrast... when it was a Russian ship burning it was the end of the world and bad procedure and this sort of thing should never be allowed to happen, and why are Russians so useless when it comes to safety procedure and prevention of mistakes... but when it happens in China... they are making heaps so losing one isn't really a problem, and with the US the damn thing is going to be left to burn to the water line but it is all they can afford it, and they are all the navy is still very strong blah blah blah.

Now these were different situations on totally different ships, but the Russians and Chinese seem to have gotten their blazes under control...

Perhaps on the American thread about this fire we could discuss fire control methods and why they failed leading to the ship becoming a writeoff.

https://www.russiadefence.net/t7951p300-us-navy-and-naval-aircraft-news

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hoom

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Post n°838

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

hoom on Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:46 am

The irony is quite delicious.

Also interesting that the Russians apparently managed to contain their fire to relatively small volume vs the much vaunted US DC has apparently allowed the whole ship to be gutted.
Note also relevant to K this ship visibly sitting low & listing vs K which was sitting high & even keel after the dry-dock issue.

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°839

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Tsavo Lion on Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:16 am

350M Rubles, or 4.723,353.2 USD on repairs:
https://www.gazeta.ru/army/news/2020/08/23/14835559.shtml

https://www.vbr.ru/banki/kurs-valut/converter/rub-usd/350000000/

Big_Gazza

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Post n°840

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Big_Gazza on Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:45 pm

Tsavo Lion wrote:350M Rubles, or 4.723,353.2 USD on repairs:
https://www.gazeta.ru/army/news/2020/08/23/14835559.shtml

https://www.vbr.ru/banki/kurs-valut/converter/rub-usd/350000000/

Chicken feed.... So much for the K being gutted by fire and facing the scrap heap Laughing

GarryB

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Post n°841

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

GarryB on Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:59 am

4 million USD... a quarter the price of one lead in fighter trainer (LIFT) certain members wanted to scrap the ship....

LMFS

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Post n°842

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

LMFS on Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:01 am

Can someone of you make sense of this? What system are they talking about?

Another development presented at the Army-2020 International Military-Technical Forum is a device for launching carrier-based aircraft. It was originally created for the Indian Armed Forces. But very soon the device can be found on the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov". The contract has already been signed. The unit is virtually indestructible: it consists of 20 conversion units. It only takes 30 seconds to replace each one.

“It provides all the characteristics declared even if two units fail. It will take no more than 30 seconds to replace a failed unit, ”explains Alexander Ivanovskiy, deputy director of the design bureau - head of the converter technology department at New ERA JSC.

Еще одна представленная на Международном военно-техническом форуме «Армия-2020» разработка - устройство для запуска самолетов палубной авиации. Изначально его создавали для индийских Вооруженных сил. Но уже совсем скоро устройство можно будет встретить на авианосце «Адмирал Кузнецов». Контракт уже подписан. Агрегат фактически неубиваемый: состоит из 20 преобразовательных блоков. Для того чтобы заменить каждый из них, уходит всего 30 секунд.

«Все характеристики заявленные он обеспечивает даже при выходе из строя двух блоков. Для замены вышедшего из строя блока потребуется не более 30 секунд», - объясняет заместитель директора конструкторского бюро - начальник отдела преобразовательной техники АО «Новая ЭРА» Александр Ивановский.

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/20208252040-0rrXu.html

GarryB

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Post n°843

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

GarryB on Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:15 am

New Era seem to be the company that is doing the electrics in ships, vessels and subs for the Russian Navy.

Sound to me like they are offering some sort of electrical catapult system.... dare I say an EMALS that can be fitted to the Kuznetsov even though when it was designed and built it was believed to be too small to have a catapult system... mainly because there would not be enough room to carry an AWACS type fixed wing aircraft that would require a cat system to launch it.

Perhaps a cat system could be used to launch an AEW drone with fixed wing performance in a smaller package and longer endurance and altitude performance than a helicopter?

Should be interesting.

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Post n°844

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

mnztr on Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:54 pm

The whole concept of AWACs is evolving. Its very likely rather then the Hawkeye concept, there will be drones which are much lighter and they will just act as radar antennas. These will transmit telemetry back to the ship where the sector radar operators and computers will work to identify and cataogize threats. This can provide much greater coverage at a fraction of the operating cost. It will not need catapults. Its possible they will install CATs to increase payload of the planes.

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Post n°845

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

SeigSoloyvov on Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:30 am

Oh that system, its a type of STOBAR catapult.

It wouldn't make sense to put emails on this ship and the Russians do not have functional EMALS catapults.

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Post n°846

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:12 am

a type of STOBAR catapult

what is it exactly, can u define it? A STOBAR CV doesn't have it, but a CATOBAR does.

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Post n°847

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

SeigSoloyvov on Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:30 am

Tsavo Lion wrote:

a type of STOBAR catapult

what is it exactly, can u define it? A STOBAR CV doesn't have it, but a CATOBAR does.

It's based on a STOBAR system with tweaks

It's not a purpose-built catapult system but a makeshift system similar to the Indian carrier they did, it's based on that concept, there is no proper term for it.

Carrier launch systems need to be designed as the ship is being designed, they are not about to go back and waste time and money developing a catapult system for this ship, so they are borrowing on data from the conversion project they did for India to make a STOBAR type system for the Kuz. Which makes far more sense.

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°848

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:30 am

AFAIK none of the Indian CVs have it. Pl. post a source showing it.

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Post n°849

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

SeigSoloyvov on Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:08 am

Tsavo Lion wrote:AFAIK none of the Indian CVs have it. Pl. post a source showing it.

the Vikramaditya is a STOBAR....

if you don't know that much, really not going to argue.

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Post n°850

Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:27 am

INS Vikramaditya design and features

The refurbished aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya is equipped with 234 new hull sections constructed using 2,500t of steel. It has an overall length of 284m, a maximum beam of 60m, height of about 60m and a displacement of 44,500t.The warship features 22 decks and 2,500 compartments, of which 1,750 were completely re-built. It can carry more than 1,600 personnel including crew. Sponsons are installed to increase the breadth at the flight deck.The modernised ship is also equipped with flight deck lighting systems, new AC plants, refrigeration plants, 14° sky jump, 30m wide arrester gears, three restraining gears, and two reverse osmosis plants for producing 400t of fresh water per day.The modifications also included replacement of 2,300km of old electrical cables with new cables, upgrades to bulbous bow, and replacement of distilling plants. The aft aircraft lift and ammunition lifts were also upgraded. [size=18]https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/ins-vikramaditya-aircraft-carrier/[/size]
The new giant warship of the Indian Navy also features a state of the art launch and recovery systems, for the smooth operation of the aircraft. It includes the LUNA Landing system for MiGs, Flight deck lighting systems and DAPS Landing system for Sea Harriers.Also, there are three arrester wires on board to help pilots for landing on the carrier. In addition, the warship is the first Indian aircraft carrier of the Short Takeoff but Assisted Recovery (STOBAR) category since it has the capacity to position the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) on its board. https://www.marineinsight.com/types-of-ships/ins-vikramaditya-%E2%80%93-the-new-air-craft-carrier-of-indian-navy/

There's no mention of any catapult. If there was, those F-18s wouldn't need to be tested for ski jump compatibility: While both France and the US have offered their fighters, the key issue is that the western jets are designed to operate from a flat deck with the assistance of a catapult. The Indian ships do not have the catapult and rely on a ski jump for take-off.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/f/a-18-super-hornet-is-compatible-with-indian-aircraft-carrier-ski-jump-tests-soon-boeing/articleshow/73983270.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Also, I edited this post with more links, as a coup de grace for u.

Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:35 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add a quote)

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Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

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