Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic

    Posts : 1001
    Points : 999
    Join date : 2015-12-30

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:35 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov - cannot be repaired? https://regnum.ru/news/economy/2859021.html


    https://regnum.ru/news/economy/2859021.html

    As for the expediency of returning Kuznetsov to service, despite the significant cost of repairs, he will be able to significantly enhance the potential of the Navy. By the time the Kuznetsov repair is completed, at least one more frigate of project 22 350 (in addition to the frigates of this project already available in the Northern Fleet) should be operational, and the modernization of the heavy nuclear missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov will be completed. This, in combination with other ships of the Northern Fleet, will allow the formation of a powerful multi-purpose ship group. At the same time, the combat potential of Admiral Kuznetsov will increase significantly. In particular, the ship will be based on a full-fledged air group of two squadrons of Su-33 and MiG-29K fighters, which is already available at the moment.


    The cost of repairing Kuznetsov is high and actually corresponds to the cost of building a new multipurpose nuclear submarine. However, this money is well worth it for the Russian Navy to receive a full-fledged aircraft carrier that can serve for a very long time and significantly enhance the potential of an entire naval formation, especially considering that the number of large warships in the Russian Navy leaves much to be desired. In addition, the overhaul of Kuznetsov will make it possible to get an aircraft carrier in the foreseeable future, as well as preserve the school of carrier-based aviation, while the construction of a new ship of this class costs many times more money, despite the fact that the Russian industry is currently hardly ready to carry out such large-scale project.

    From the title i believed it was some idiocy, but maybe it was a problem with the automatic translation.
    I tend to fully agree with the reported conclusion.

    In addition there is a huge need of large drydocks in the north and in the far east capable of building and repairing aircraft carriers, cruisers, icebreakers, LNG tankers, etc...

    Those floating dry docks were probably just a stopgaps, and where also in need of being decommissioned and getting a replacement.

    So the cost of the investment for new infrastructure cannot be included in the repair cost of admiral Kuznetov, since they are needed anyway...

    Unfortunately this is what happen when you neglect something for a long time... you save money on the short term, but the long term consequences are huge.... and the cost remains, but you have to pay it all at once...
    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 2006
    Points : 2008
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:04 am

    A deliberately misleading heading, probably just a click-bait ploy.

    The article seems balanced but the cost of Kuznetsovs repair and modernisation is still being exaggerated - equal to the cost of a multi-purpose nuclear submarine?? I presume they are referring to a Yasen-M, and if so, this is an absurd claim. I'll need to see some (believable) cost data before i'll believe this steaming pile of 5th columnist lies.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25338
    Points : 25884
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:20 am

    Equally the claims of costs and what it would buy instead don't take in to account the obvious... if they were going to use the money they would spend on fixing the K to buy another two Frigates it doesn't mean that translates directly into having two new frigates right now... it means in 15 years time when they have made the 20 odd frigates they might have wanted they could then make two extra ones, but of course in the 15 years time that money would be diverted elsewhere rather than sitting waiting to be spent.

    And diverting the money means writing off a carrier that cannot be replaced any time in the next decade which renders a lot of things useless including two land based carrier deck simulators (the original soviet one and the one they built when the Ukraine said they couldn't use that one...).
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 14769
    Points : 15268
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:41 pm

    The deadline for the completion of the repair of Admiral Kuznetsov has moved to the end of 2022

    https://www.korabel.ru/news/comments/srok_zaversheniya_remonta_admirala_kuznecova_sdvinulsya_na_konec_2022_goda.html
    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 2006
    Points : 2008
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat May 09, 2020 4:10 am

    Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier planned for sea trials in fall 2022

    https://tass.com/defense/1154431
    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 430
    Points : 456
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  mnztr on Sun May 17, 2020 9:52 pm

    Its hard to say what this really means. It could mean a) the fire and drydock incidents cause the delays b) the lack of a drydock is the delay or c) the refurb has become more ambitious and extensive. Maybe they decided t put 4 caliber missile in each silo to replace Granit which would be a withering 48 cruise missiles. Imagine the ship launches 48 missiles and then its air wing as a second wave...OMG!!!
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9248
    Points : 9330
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun May 17, 2020 10:04 pm

    mnztr wrote:Its hard to say what this really means. It could mean a) the fire and drydock incidents cause the delays b) the lack of a drydock is the delay or c) the refurb has become more ambitious and extensive. Maybe they decided t put 4 caliber missile in each silo to replace Granit which would be a withering 48 cruise missiles. Imagine the ship launches 48 missiles and then its air wing as a second wave...OMG!!!

    It just means that they will keep throwing money on this white elephant

    There will be no ambitious refurb or 48 UKSK or air wing (which never worked to begin with, Yak-38s had vastly more reliable track record)

    Only OMG is that this disaster still hasn't been cut up for scrap while several air squadrons and enough crewmen for fleet of frigates wastes away on it


    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4172
    Points : 4168
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun May 17, 2020 10:53 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:It just means that they will keep throwing money on this white elephant.
    even if it is a white elephant, it's better to keep it than having no elephant at all. By ur logic, the US need to scrap the Ford CVN instead of fixing it.
    ..Yak-38s had vastly more reliable track record..
    than the Su-33 or MiG-29K? Compared to them, it lacked range, war load & was a widowmaker worse than the Harrier.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9248
    Points : 9330
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun May 17, 2020 11:30 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:..even if it is a white elephant, it's better to keep it than having no elephant at all. By ur logic, the US need to scrap the Ford CVN instead of fixing it.

    Forc is brand new, has decades of use left in it and it can be fixed

    Kuznetzov is ancient and was useless even when it wasn't broken

    How many patrols did Kuznetzov complete in it's existence?



    Tsavo Lion wrote:..
    ..Yak-38s had vastly more reliable track record..
    than the Su-33 or MiG-29K? Compared to them, it lacked range, war load

    And was able to fly off the ship and do the job it was designed for

    How many times Su-33 or MiG-29K did the same?



    Tsavo Lion wrote:.. & was a widowmaker worse than the Harrier.

    Numbers disagree


    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4172
    Points : 4168
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun May 17, 2020 11:49 pm

    Kuznetzov is ancient and was useless even when it wasn't broken How many patrols did Kuznetzov complete in it's existence?
    It was useful as a training platform for maintainers, shipyards, sailors & pilots; there was not much need for many patrols since 1989- less patrols, less wear & tear on the haul.
    How many times Su-33 or MiG-29K did the same?
    their time will come. If they r good for the PLAN's (as the J-15s) & the Indian Navy, the VMF shouldn't be complaining of not having Yak-38s anymore.
    Numbers disagree
    Still, they were tried in Afghanistan as ground attack planes w/o much success. Harriers & F-18s were used from land bases by the US Marines & others, incl. in Afghanistan & the ME with as much success as from ships.
    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 430
    Points : 456
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  mnztr on Mon May 18, 2020 12:42 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:Its hard to say what this really means. It could mean a) the fire and drydock incidents cause the delays b) the lack of a drydock is the delay or c) the refurb has become more ambitious and extensive. Maybe they decided t put 4 caliber missile in each silo to replace Granit which would be a withering 48 cruise missiles. Imagine the ship launches 48 missiles and then its air wing as a second wave...OMG!!!

    It just means that they will keep throwing money on this white elephant

    There will be no ambitious refurb or 48 UKSK or air wing (which never worked to begin with, Yak-38s had vastly more reliable track record)

    Only OMG is that this disaster still hasn't been cut up for scrap while several air squadrons and enough crewmen for fleet of frigates wastes away on it



    All navies are mostly white elephants..When you have submarines that can lay waste to the planet, whats the real point of surface ships anyway. They are all there to show the flag.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9248
    Points : 9330
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon May 18, 2020 3:52 am

    mnztr wrote:...All navies are mostly white elephants..When you have submarines that can lay waste to the planet, whats the real point of surface ships anyway. They are all there to show the flag.

    Kuznetzov only showed flag once in it's entire existence and all it accomplished was exposure of aforementioned flag to avalanche of ridicule

    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 4572
    Points : 4550
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon May 18, 2020 4:03 am

    They gonna keep it as a short time frame need for training and what not. Over time they will just phase it out when a new jump jet is made and we already know they are working on one. Once it's out, new ideas for carriers will be made.

    This is just to keep some kind of training regime in place.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4172
    Points : 4168
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon May 18, 2020 5:42 am

    mnztr wrote:...All navies are mostly white elephants..When you have submarines that can lay waste to the planet, whats the real point of surface ships anyway. They are all there to show the flag.
    SSBNs r insurance against 1st strike; surface ships have many classes & missions besides just showing the flag. There r many navies that don't/seldom send ships outside of their home regions, but they r not sitting idle.
    Kuznetzov only showed flag once in it's entire existence and all it accomplished was exposure of aforementioned flag to avalanche of ridicule
    It had 1 exercise in the N. Atlantic & 5 Med. Sea deployments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_aircraft_carrier_Admiral_Kuznetsov#1990s

    Not bad for a training/combat ship!
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9248
    Points : 9330
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon May 18, 2020 6:03 am


    One exercise and five "deployments" (which it barely survived) over period of 30 years?

    You call that not bad? You are right it's not bad, it's hilarious.

    And have you read that wiki page? It reads like list of breakdowns, fires and other assorted disasters with couple of exercises sprinkled in for decoration.

    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4172
    Points : 4168
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon May 18, 2020 6:34 am

    It's better than nothing. If the Kursk SSGN didn't sink, there would be 1 more Med. Sea deployment. The FN sole CVN also had many breakdowns- does it mean it's useless?
    The RTN keeps its carrier, even though its past disaster relief missions could be done by other ships; it hasn't done much else besides being a a flagship & Royal yacht. The VMF has a lot more on its plate than the RTN & RN; it has more complex threat matrix/geography to deal with while training for more contingencies.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9248
    Points : 9330
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon May 18, 2020 7:32 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:It's better than nothing. If the Kursk SSGN didn't sink, there would be 1 more Med. Sea deployment.

    1 more deployment? It should have had 30 by now, 1 more or less is nothing



    Tsavo Lion wrote:The FN sole CVN also had many breakdowns- does it mean it's useless?

    French one had dozens more deployments than breakdowns and it took part in actual wars

    Yes, French military are just backbiters and their involvement is inconsequential in overall proceedings because USA does all the work and French just pick up scraps under US protection but at least that CVN was there

    When did Russian carrier go anywhere or was even available when needed?
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4172
    Points : 4168
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon May 18, 2020 7:48 am

    This is their 1st true carrier, although still designated as TAKR. After the refit it'll spend more time at sea.
    If they really needed a CV that was ready more often, the Adm. Gorshkov would be refitted & kept instead of being sold to India.
    They could also buy back the Kiev &/ Minsk from China & refit them.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-14594812/china-turns-aircraft-carrier-into-a-luxury-hotel
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_aircraft_carrier_Minsk#Shenzhen_Minsk_World,_China
    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 2006
    Points : 2008
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon May 18, 2020 10:37 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Kuznetzov only showed flag once in it's entire existence and all it accomplished was exposure of aforementioned flag to avalanche of ridicule

    Kuznetsov was only required to show the flag once. Unlike the US (or ex-Imperial sore losers like France), Russia desn't have a perchant for gunboat diplomacy or dropping bombs on foreign nations simply because they say NO.

    Avalanche of ridicule?  By Russias enemies that ridicule everything she does, regardless? NATOstani sock puppets ridiculed Russia air operations until it became undeniable that they were efficient and delivering far more damage per sortie than US/NATOista efforts.

    So the K had issues with a dodgy powerplant due to shoddy Ukropi boilers and a general lack of maintenance for 20 years?  You keep harping on about this but its all BS and doesn't say anything about the ships organic value. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the K that a repair and refit won't fix.  Critics said the same about the 1143 Baku/Gorshkov but now only a fool would claim that the Vikramadatiya is worthless junk.

    Tsavo Lion wrote:They could also buy back the Kiev &/ Minsk from China & refit them.

    Wut? they are 50 year old hulls...   Suspect  Rebuilding them would be far more expensive than building brand new ships, and would, quite frankly, be rather humiliating.  If Russia was really needing a new carrier in the next decade they could simply order a "next-gen" Kuznetsov from the Chinese.
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 5800
    Points : 5792
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Isos on Mon May 18, 2020 10:58 am

    They are developping weapons that make carriers totally useless and other countries will come up with similar weapons soon.

    However having a carrier is a good deterrence tool in high seas or for gunboat diplomacy. A kuznetsov with 20 mig-29K is enough for that.

    Indians and chinese are getting their carriers but what are they doing with them ? Nothing more than russians do with the Kuznetsov.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25338
    Points : 25884
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 18, 2020 12:10 pm

    Its hard to say what this really means. It could mean a) the fire and drydock incidents cause the delays b) the lack of a drydock is the delay or c) the refurb has become more ambitious and extensive. Maybe they decided t put 4 caliber missile in each silo to replace Granit which would be a withering 48 cruise missiles. Imagine the ship launches 48 missiles and then its air wing as a second wave...OMG!!!

    To be honest I think it would be better use of the space on the ship where the 12 Granits were located to fill it with Aviation fuel so they could operate their aircraft for longer patrols... most of the ships the K will be operating with will have Zircon which will be much more capable at a fraction of the size and weight... a tiny corvette could use its small size and high speed to zoom up and launch from closer range and then zip back under the air protection provided by the K to get away safe.

    It just means that they will keep throwing money on this white elephant

    It is their only working fixed wing aircraft carrier and will be for the next decade... its aircraft can get airborne from her deck even in port... can't say the same about the Ford class helicopter carrier.

    air wing (which never worked to begin with, Yak-38s had vastly more reliable track record)

    Stop being silly.... the Yak-38 has a war load on four weapon pylons of two gun pods and two R-60 AAMs, or two 32 shot 57mm rocket pods and two gun pods. Its most potent air to air payload was four R-60s. It could carry two AS-7 command guided missiles but they were not particularly accurate or effective.

    The Yak-38M had more powerful engines but was still subsonic which effectively meant it had a much shorter range because of the increased thrust but couldn't fly any faster...

    The Su-25 model aircraft on the Kuznetsov has no capacity to carry weapons but has better flight range and speed than the Yak-38M... put the 30mm gun back on it and it would fly rings around the old plane.

    The MiG-29KR and Su-33 are orders of magnitude better than any model Yak VSTOL fighter ever designed and made... which is why they are gone and the MiG and Su-33 are in service.

    Only OMG is that this disaster still hasn't been cut up for scrap while several air squadrons and enough crewmen for fleet of frigates wastes away on it

    Yeah.... wasn't that long ago you were demanding the same for the Ivan Gren.... now you want more built... do you not think it is possible that with its problems sorted out that having the Kuznetsov is much better than not having any fixed wing naval aircraft carrier for the next decade?

    By ur logic, the US need to scrap the Ford CVN instead of fixing it.

    They need to take the major problems seriously and fix them ASAP...

    than the Su-33 or MiG-29K? Compared to them, it lacked range, war load & was a widowmaker worse than the Harrier.

    The Yak-38 and Yak-38M were terrible aircraft... much worse than the Harrier, and a lot more Yaks crashed than Harriers even when you take in to account the Harriers went in to war zones and they only tested a couple of Yaks in Afghanistan... but the Yaks were not widow makers... lots more crashed and were destroyed than with Harriers but far fewer pilots and crew died in them because of their automated ejection system.

    Forc is brand new, has decades of use left in it and it can be fixed

    Ford is brand new and fundamentally does not work... it does not perform the function required of carrying about fixed wing aircraft for their deployment world wide... fixed wing aircraft cannot operate from the Ford... certainly not the fixed wing aircraft they currently carry.

    Kuznetzov is ancient and was useless even when it wasn't broken

    It was built in the 1980s... if you put it in the US Navy it would fit inn the upper part of the Nimitz class... there would be 6 American Nimitz class carriers older than it and 4 launched after it...

    How many patrols did Kuznetzov complete in it's existence?

    Why do you think the previous number of patrols during a long period or economic turmoil, has anything to do with Russias future need for air power at sea?

    You do know that before the US built aircraft carriers they didn't have any... so why build them because they never used them before?

    And was able to fly off the ship and do the job it was designed for

    How many times Su-33 or MiG-29K did the same?

    A hell of a lot more often than the Yak-38 or Yak-38M ever did...


    Numbers disagree

    It crashed a lot more than the Harrier did, but did not kill as many crew, but it could still fairly be called a widow maker, because it was not made or used in large numbers but there were a lot of crashes.

    You could argue that the auto ejection system doomed the aircraft to a crash in situations the pilot might have managed to recover from, but I doubt the number of aircraft that would have saved would compensate for the extra lives that would have been lost in the process of trying to save the aircraft.

    the VMF shouldn't be complaining of not having Yak-38s anymore.

    Ignore PD, the VMF chose to replace the useless Yak-38s with Su-33s.

    When they got the chance to buy MiG-29KRs they took that opportunity too.

    They gonna keep it as a short time frame need for training and what not. Over time they will just phase it out when a new jump jet is made and we already know they are working on one.

    No. They were mentioning the obscure possibility that a new aircraft that can take off vertically might be considered... I would not bet my house on that though.

    Unless there is an amazing breakthrough a VSTOL fighter is terribly inefficient and weak as an asset.

    Once it's out, new ideas for carriers will be made.

    The purpose of an aircraft carrier for Russia is to provide air support for surface ship groupings... it does not need to strike land targets or sink enemy ships.... they are working on long range cruise and anti ship and land attack missiles to do all that... all they need is a CAP component to protect the ships from attack.

    I suspect their first CVN will include a lot of drone technology and other exotic and clever ideas... they are not limited by the western rigid ideology regarding Nimitz type 100K ton carriers.

    Remember that... the Russian aircraft carrier is merely to bring land based air power support for ships along for the ride no matter where they go.... not a huge priority at the moment because they are not sending large groups of ships on long duration voyages... in 5-10 years time however they will want to start to roam and find new customers and partners... for which an aircraft carrier would be useful.

    If Russian aircraft carriers were only for fighting HATO and the US then I would agree they are pointless... for WWIII they will make little to no difference in the result... but for peace time use and for use in small conflicts that go on all the time they are USEFUL.
    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 430
    Points : 456
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  mnztr on Mon May 18, 2020 5:29 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:It's better than nothing. If the Kursk SSGN didn't sink, there would be 1 more Med. Sea deployment.

    1 more deployment? It should have had 30 by now, 1 more or less is nothing



    Tsavo Lion wrote:The FN sole CVN also had many breakdowns- does it mean it's useless?

    French one had dozens more deployments than breakdowns and it took part in actual wars

    Yes, French military are just backbiters and their involvement is inconsequential in overall proceedings because USA does all the work and French just pick up scraps under US protection but at least that CVN was there

    When did Russian carrier go anywhere or was even available when needed?



    Fact is Russia does not attack as many countries as the USA and isn't bombing 7x24x365. The TU-95, TU-160 and TU-22 all fired their first weapons in anger in Syria... the TU-95 after how many decades in service?Yet no one would  ever argue its anything less then an absoutely iconic platform.

    Kuznetesov will be rebuilt for all the reasons people mentioned, but also to rebuild and industrial base that has completely eroded. For that same reason they are rebuilding the Kirov. The collapse of the Soviet Union let to incredible supply chain and skills erosion. They have no capability to build a carrier today. Refurbing the Kuz will bring them closer to restoring that capability. The ship can easily last another 20 years.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4172
    Points : 4168
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon May 18, 2020 6:09 pm

    Wut? they are 50 year old hulls... Suspect Rebuilding them would be far more expensive than building brand new ships, and would, quite frankly, be rather humiliating.
    Russia could also buy back & finish the Varyag at Nikolayev shipyard.
    But getting some of the Tu-95s/160s from Ukraine was more important at the time.
    for WWIII they will make little to no difference in the result...
    not if it is going to be fought with conventional &/ tactical nuclear arms only.
    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 430
    Points : 456
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  mnztr on Mon May 18, 2020 8:10 pm


    for WWIII they will make little to no difference in the result...


    Russia seeks to prevent WWIII, only the US tries to find ways to "win" WWIII. Imagine if in the current context Kuz was ready to go, and Russia decided to sail a convoy of ships to deliver aid to Venezuela and Kuz went along to support the convoy. I don't think anyone would dare to mess with it, esp knowing a Yassen class was probably prowling within a few hundred KM. Anything that came within a few hundred KM would be visited by MIG-29 with KH-31.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 4172
    Points : 4168
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon May 18, 2020 8:19 pm

    Imagine if in the current context Kuz was ready to go, and Russia decided to sail a convoy of ships to deliver aid to Venezuela and Kuz went along to support the convoy.
    Iran could pay for escorting its tankers on their way there now!
    https://vz.ru/world/2020/5/18/1039836.print.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon May 18, 2020 9:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)

    Sponsored content

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 32 Empty Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:55 pm