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    Fate of Russia's old birds.

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    walle83

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    Post  walle83 Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:58 pm

    Isos wrote:
    It is a bit like tanks... who is going to buy new optics and new engines and new computer systems and put them in a T-54. It makes more sense to start from a T-90 as a basis because it is a newer and better tank to start with and the improvements make it better.

    Upgrading hundreds of t-54 or buying tens of t-90. I would choose the t-54.

    Depends what enemy you are fighting. 100 t-54s against 15 abrams, i would bet on the abrams. Better buying 30 T-90s, then you would have a better chance.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:05 pm

    An upgraded t-54 would get 100mm APFSDS and new thermals and FCS. With 3-4 times more t-54 you just flank the abrams and destroy them.

    Same with mig-23. They have a good acceleration and good speed to launch r-77 even better than a mig-29.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:30 am

    There are a lot of implications, for instance with 100 T-54s you need four hundred men for crews, and the cost of moving 100 tanks around would probably make newer tanks cheaper.

    Of course you could argue it would take 100 shots to take them out at the minimum but it really depends on your situation and who you might be facing... modern ERA and APS systems might actually render them as effective as better armoured vehicles.

    New types of ceramic armour could potentially be fitted to improve protection without increasing armour weight, so a new more powerful engine might give it impressive mobility.

    Having said that a wheeled vehicle like Boomerang might give you much cheaper operational and maintenance costs with better fire power and comparable protection.

    Uran-9 with Kornet missiles and Bulat missiles and Ataka for surface to air use might work out more effective.

    It rather comes down to what you already have and what you think you need.

    You can upgrade old stuff forever but eventually it reaches a limit.

    I would suggest for example a poor country with lots of T-55s might consider buying upgraded T-72s and also apply the upgrades to the T-72s to their T-55s as well for standardisation and performance improvements across the board.

    In terms of fighter planes I would approach an existing user of MiG-29s and perhaps work out a deal where you buy their old upgraded MiG-29s and they can use that money to buy brand new build MiG-29M2s.

    Continuing to use old aircraft only makes sense if it is still being used by the original owner. Otherwise you fund all development yourself so the next generation product up is what you should be looking at...

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:24 am

    I am going to see this Yak 110 stunt plane this weekend. Cool to see a Russian aircraft a fixture on the n. american airshow circuit.

    The Yak-110 is a twin-fuselage aircraft made from two Yak-55s, fitted with a new wing center section supporting a single General Electric J85 turbojet engine in addition to the Vedeneyev M14P propeller engines. In 2013 pilot Jeff Boerboon and mechanic Dell Coller came up with the idea of the Yak-110. Chad Bartee owns one half, Boerboon the other. The plane is flown with the pilot in the left Yak-55 and is the only trimotor certified for unlimited aerobatics. Its first airshow was the Gunfighter Skies in 2018 at the Mountain Home Air Force Base in Idaho.

    Fate of Russia's old birds. - Page 4 2019_Fort_Worth_Alliance_Air_Show_139_%28Jeff_Boerboon%27s_%22Yak-110%22%29


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    Russian_Patriot_
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:58 pm

    An abandoned military airfield in the Murmansk region near the village of Kilpyavr
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    Russian_Patriot_
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:22 pm

    The I-16 fighter, restored by the employees of the Avialift Vladivostok company
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    Russian_Patriot_
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:28 pm

    The restoration of the MiG-17 monument aircraft has been completed in Nizhny Novgorod. 
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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:38 pm

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:The restoration of the MiG-17 monument aircraft has been completed in Nizhny Novgorod. 

    Was she restored back into flying condition?
    Russian_Patriot_
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:42 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:The restoration of the MiG-17 monument aircraft has been completed in Nizhny Novgorod. 

    Was she restored back into flying condition?
    As far as I know, no. The plane will send to the museum
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:05 pm

    Pitty. It would be great to see some of these old birds fly again!

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    Finty
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    Post  Finty Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:09 am

    Mir wrote:Pitty. It would be great to see some of these old birds fly again!

    Aye. Glad I was able to see a MiG-15 flying at Eastbourne airshow in England of all places. Not enough Russian aircraft at British airshows for obvious reasons!

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    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:44 am

    Finty wrote:
    Mir wrote:Pitty. It would be great to see some of these old birds fly again!

    Aye. Glad I was able to see a MiG-15 flying at Eastbourne airshow in England of all places. Not enough Russian aircraft at British airshows for obvious reasons!

    Try US ones! Interestingly enough, prior to the pandemic just screwing everything up, we attended the same airshow ever year for almost 20 years and this ex-Polish MiG-17 which was part of a private collection I believe, would show up every once in a while in the few years prior to 2020. Always enjoyed seeing such a rarity for up this way!

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:05 am

    Gomig-21 wrote:
    Finty wrote:
    Mir wrote:Pitty. It would be great to see some of these old birds fly again!

    Aye. Glad I was able to see a MiG-15 flying at Eastbourne airshow in England of all places. Not enough Russian aircraft at British airshows for obvious reasons!

    Try US ones!  Interestingly enough, prior to the pandemic just screwing everything up, we attended the same airshow ever year for almost 20 years and this ex-Polish MiG-17 which was part of a private collection I believe, would show up every once in a while in the few years prior to 2020.  Always enjoyed seeing such a rarity for up this way!

    Fate of Russia's old birds. - Page 4 Img_0269-jpg

    Always loved the mig-17. As a kid I didnt care about the mig-15 but loved the wings and afterburner of the mig-17. attack

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    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:58 am

    TMA1 wrote:Always loved the mig-17. As a kid I didnt care about the mig-15 but loved the wings and afterburner of the mig-17. attack

    Funny you mentioned the MiG-15 since there's one in the next town over from me as a static display at a small, local airport lol. The airport mostly has Cessnas and other small aircraft flying in and out and also has a flight school which is what makes it more busy than routine flights in and out.

    But How this all-black with red stars and two winged fuel tanks MiG-15 UTI (two-seater) is doing there as a static display is quite interesting. It used to belong to a mafiosi who obviously got taken out and raided and all his possessions confiscated including this toy of his. The story is that he would take his friends and family out on rides LOL. I can only imagine sitting in that back seat and this guy flying that thing lmao. But I think those older Russian jets from the 15 to the vaunted 21 are super collectible here in the US, if you can afford to purchase one, have all the legitimate paperwork and licenses and be able to store and maintain it. They seem to be much more wanted than let's say US or European aircraft from the same time period.

    I used to have a lot of excellent pics of it up close etc. but lost them in my older computer. So I had to get this one from Google and I can't believe this is the only pic of that aircraft on Google!? I haven't been there in a few years despite it being 12 minutes away loool, but now I might have to go and get more pics but I hope it's still there and the airport didn't get rid of it during the pandemic! That would suck. But she's a beauty in that all-black with the bright red stars. Sorry the pic is so tiny. I'll definitely get there and take better ones. Hopefully they didn't get rid of it since it's been there for at least 18 years that I know of. A Russian MiG-15 in a small, local airport of a New England suburban town LOL!

    Fate of Russia's old birds. - Page 4 220px-Beverly_Airport_-_MiG-15UTI_Trainer_Jet

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:38 am

    In 1981 Mozambique Air Force Lieutenant Bomba defected in a Mig-17 to South Africa. He was intercepted by a Mirage F1AZ and proceeded to land at Hoedspruit Air Force Base. He was granted political asylum. The Mig was extensive examined, flight testing and even made an appearance at an air show! The Mig-17 was later returned to Maputo by road.

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    In 1988 an Angolan pilot Lieutenant Vinez made a perfect emergency landing inside Namibian territory after he got lost and ran out of fuel. The only Map he had on him was a standard Shell Road Map!

    The then National Party Government propaganda and state owned media in South Africa turned this event into a “defection” to South Africa – in much the same way that Soviet and Cuban Communists defected to the “West” during the Cold War. The Mig-21bis was displayed at the SAAF Museum which was just around the corner from where I grew up. A great sight to behold! With the end of Appartheid the Mig was returned to Angola.

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    There was also an Algerian Air Force Mi-24A on display in Soviet colours! I have no idea what happened to it but it was in perfect condition.

    Fate of Russia's old birds. - Page 4 Mi-24a10


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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:09 am

    We have a Warbirds over Wanaka airshow every other year and they have some excellent old Russian birds like the old Polikarpovs (I-15 and I-16) and Yaks.

    The I-16 sounds really weird in the flesh so to speak... if you can imagine an old lawnmower engine.... but attach it to a piece of string about 20m long and swing it round your head... that is what it sounds like....

    Just do a search of Warbirds over Wanaka for their website and lots of images... like this:

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:27 am

    Before the SAAF Museum came into being a great many very rare war birds ended up as scrap metal in South Africa. As a young boy living near two Air Force bases I personally saw rows of Spitfires, Hurricanes and Mustangs being scraped and literally torched! You are very fortunate indeed to see those old Soviet fighters flying!

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:30 pm

    I would love to see at least one of each of these majestic Soviet birds back in the air Exclamation

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:36 pm

    Not to mention this! In my view the ultimate in Soviet design Smile

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    Maximmmm
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    Post  Maximmmm Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:04 pm

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:The I-16 fighter, restored by the employees of the Avialift Vladivostok company
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    Honestly, one of my favorite planes ever. I had a small, broken (it was missing at least a wing) diecast model when I was a kid and I just dunno why but I fell in love with the plane.
    If anybody knows a good place to grab a diecast, either old stock or new, let me know (maybe I'll just go on ebay now and look).

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:26 pm

    Mir wrote:I would love to see at least one of each of these majestic Soviet birds back in the air Exclamation

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    Actually they are still in service with the chinese air force and naval air force. They have like 150 of them called H-6.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:35 pm

    Isos wrote:

    Actually they are still in service with the chinese air force and naval air force. They have like 150 of them called H-6.

    Hahaha very funny!

    BTW the first one is the tanker version of the M4 bomber from the Myasishchev OKB - so no Tupolev or Tu-16 (H-6) relation there!
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:00 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    Actually they are still in service with the chinese air force and naval air force. They have like 150 of them called H-6.

    Hahaha very funny!

    BTW the first one is the tanker version of the M4 bomber from the Myasishchev OKB - so no Tupolev or Tu-16 (H-6) relation there!

    My bad then.

    Well they look the same.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:17 pm

    Isos wrote:
    My bad then.

    Well they look the same.

    It's a bit like saying all Chinese people look the same Laughing

    Well at least there are some static displays of both these bombers in Russia but who knows, maybe Russia can buy one of the original H-6 bombers from China and restore it back to a flying Tu-16A?

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    Finty
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    Post  Finty Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:57 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    My bad then.

    Well they look the same.

    It's a bit like saying all Chinese people look the same Laughing

    Well at least there are some static displays of both these bombers in Russia but who knows, maybe Russia can buy one of the original H-6 bombers from China and restore it back to a flying Tu-16A?

    Lol with tonight's AUKUS announcement, China will want all the bombers they can get, and keep!

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