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    Fate of Russia's old birds.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jul 10, 2023 1:27 pm

    It is a front section of the missile only.
    The catch is, that it can be made almost fully empty, there is nothing more than some electrical wiring, aku, radar suite, steering subsystem and a warhead.
    The only thing there to be left is the steering.
    In different countries and a long time ago, people experimented with hybrids Laughing
    Using the first stage of S-25 or S-75 assembled with S-125 second stage. In most cases, the goal was to create a ballistic missile for a bargain.
    Here if you will add some powerful first stage to get the desired speed, what is left is an empty shell with command block - weight nothing so much easier to speed it up.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:36 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Fate of Russia's old birds. - Page 8 Optim_10

    Now correct me if I am mistaken but the look of the missile on the hoist and the missiles on the ground to the right with their fin configuration....

    But I suspect the new hypersonic target missile is an SA-1.. S-25.

    The missile the guy is keeping steady is the S-75 Dvina.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:56 pm

    During testing they managed to make an S-200 into a hypersonic test vehicle for a scramjet motor... I wonder what propulsive modifications they needed to do to get these older missiles to go this fast...

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:49 pm

    They had a quite potent base, those missiles were making Mach5 anyway.
    I suppose it was the fastest non-strategic SAM ever.
    Stationed in Mrzeżyno were one of the reasons why SR-71 never closed to the Polish airspace over the Baltics.

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    Post  d_taddei2 Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:38 am

    We know that the Houthis with the help of Iran turned Sa-2 into surface to surface missiles with fairly decent success it was called Qaher-1 with a 195kg fragmentation warhead and a range of 250km over 60 were launched, considering that the original SA-2 had a range of 45km upgraded versions up to 66km the range of it being converted to a surface to surface ballistic missile being five times is pretty decent, the speed of the original SA-2 was mach 3.5 no info of Qaher-1 speed but most likely be around the same speed. They went on to develop a bigger version called Qaher-2m which had a range of 400km and 350kg warhead which I wonder if this more likely based on a SA-5 with the tech coming from Iran.

    Iran have also in the past developed the SA-2 into Tondar-69 surface to surface missiles with a range of 150km and a CEP of 50-150m.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:48 am

    Such a range increase makes sense because a SAM has other limitations on its performance including getting to the target directly as quickly as possible but also getting to the target retaining enough energy and speed to perform hard turns without dropping below stall speed.

    Other limitations include the performance of the radars being used and the precision the target is discriminated at that range by the ground based radar to get the missile to manouver to occupy the same air space at the same time.

    In comparison a ballistic missile just need to gain altitude and follow an efficient ballistic path, so as it gains altitude and travels along its weight gets less and its thrust remains about the same so it will likely get faster as it moves till rocket motor burnout and then it just essentially falls the rest of the way to the target.

    Such early missiles were not amazingly accurate and had rather large warheads to help compensate, but also to try to take out more than one bomber with each shot if they were flying in close formation.

    The volume of space for the guidance equipment and brain of the missile would free up plenty of space and also reduce weight.

    Used as a target drone the SA-2, has a solid rocket booster but its main engine is liquid propellent... the old SA-1 had liquid propellent too, and I suspect they held propellent in storage but didn't keep the missiles fuelled that were in storage, so to use them now they would fuel them up with perhaps more modern and more powerful rocket fuels which on its own should create better flight performance.

    There were an enormous number of different SA-2 missile variants, but they have two main training target versions called RM-75MV and RM-75V, the differences are that the RM-75MV is to simulate a low flying target... it can reach 40km range at altitudes of 50m to 500m at speeds of 200-650m/s. The version for higher altitude testing is the RM-75V and it is used at altitudes of 1,000m up to 20,000m, allowing it to reach 40-100km range at speeds of 350-1200m/s.

    Of course extending range is not easy... as Iraq found in the 1990s when you extend the flight range of a missile by making it longer and making the fuel tanks bigger the increased flight speed and range put extra strain on the missile... many of the missiles coming in to hit targets in Desert Storm were already breaking up on their own making the job of interception even harder for Patriot which often went for the biggest parts which was often the engine and fuel tank section, leaving the warhead to fall where it might.
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    Post  Mir Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:22 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:We know that the Houthis with the help of Iran turned Sa-2 into surface to surface missiles with fairly decent success it was called Qaher-1 with a 195kg fragmentation warhead and a range of 250km over 60 were launched, considering that the original SA-2 had a range of 45km upgraded versions up to 66km the range of it being converted to a surface to surface ballistic missile being five times is pretty decent, the speed of the original SA-2 was mach 3.5 no info of Qaher-1 speed but most likely be around the same speed. They went on to develop a bigger version called Qaher-2m which had a range of 400km and 350kg warhead which I wonder if this more likely based on a SA-5 with the tech coming from Iran.

    Iran have also in the past developed  the SA-2 into Tondar-69 surface to surface missiles with a range of 150km and a CEP of 50-150m.

    Very early on the Chinese developed a SSM version with a mighty 500kg warhead with a range of 200kms!

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    Post  Gomig-21 Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:03 am

    Here's the pic of the MiG-15UTI on static display at the Beverly airport here in Massachusetts that I had mentioned to you fellows earlier in this thread.  I must admit I got it from goooooooglygoogoo instead of taking the 15-minute ride from my house and take much better shots of it.  But at least it shows the fate of one of Russia's (Soviet Union in this case) time with all black paint and the good ol' red stars and man, standing close to it brings goose bumps I tell you and I keep asking it questions like how many times did it train new pilots and if it fought in Korea and how many Sabers did it shoot down!  Too bad it never answered back but its aura is gripping! I always stay and stare until the lovely misses starts going off on me!

    Fate of Russia's old birds. - Page 8 5002657149_17abd9dee4

    Next time I'll make it a point to get much closer than this crap and take MUCH better pics.  I did tell the story about its collector previously in this thread if anyone is interested.  Cheers.


    Last edited by Gomig-21 on Mon Jul 24, 2023 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  d_taddei2 Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:56 pm

    I took this while on a trip in North Korea  Note the kill stars lol. Enjoy. Believe they still use these as trainers and ground attack aircraft (most likely strafing runs) this is most likely the case with the rest of the older aircraft such the  Shenyang J-5(Mig-17), Shenyang J-6 (Mig-19), they also still use Su-7.

    Fate of Russia's old birds. - Page 8 Img_2031


    Fate of Russia's old birds. - Page 8 Img_2032

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    Post  Gomig-21 Sat Jul 15, 2023 6:23 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:I took this while on a trip in North Korea  Note the kill stars lol. Enjoy. Believe they still use these as trainers and ground attack aircraft (most likely strafing runs) this is most likely the case with the rest of the older aircraft such the  Shenyang J-5(Mig-17), Shenyang J-6 (Mig-19), they also still use Su-7.



    Awesome shots, Taddle. I have some awesome shots from the Cairo military museum too I'll post them as soon as I get a chancenzee.

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    Post  d_taddei2 Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:08 pm

    Thanks I have some pics from Ukraine as well and got the chance to sit in a Mig-23, Mi-8, Mi-26. Maybe post later,

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