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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    auslander
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    Post  auslander Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:54 pm

    Back when the orcs were here there was 39 airframes stationed at Belbek. We rarely saw or heard one in the air, I'm talking once or twice a year and we can hear every take off up there. When the dust settled 4 of them could fly and were allowed to fly out to Orcland. The other 35 were disassembled and shipped by rail at Mother's expense back to the orcs. Not all of them made it, like the armor and such that was being shipped back all shipments stopped when the fighting in Novorossiya got serious in May of '14. Most of the orc equipment here had been stored outside for so long, and that included the aircraft, that it was nothing but scrap metal anyway.

    Did any of you notice the harness straps in the 'simulator'? Gawd. Only the orcs.....
    KiloGolf
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    Post  KiloGolf Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:59 pm

    auslander wrote:Back when the orcs were here there was 39 airframes stationed at Belbek. We rarely saw or heard one in the air, I'm talking once or twice a year and we can hear every take off up there. When the dust settled 4 of them could fly and were allowed to fly out to Orcland. The other 35 were disassembled and shipped by rail at Mother's expense back to the orcs. Not all of them made it, like the armor and such that was being shipped back all shipments stopped when the fighting in Novorossiya got serious in May of '14. Most of the orc equipment here had been stored outside for so long, and that included the aircraft, that it was nothing but scrap metal anyway.

    Did any of you notice the harness straps in the 'simulator'? Gawd. Only the orcs.....

    How many MiG-29s did Russia manage to ship to the Ukraine?
    franco
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    Post  franco Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:33 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    auslander wrote:Back when the orcs were here there was 39 airframes stationed at Belbek. We rarely saw or heard one in the air, I'm talking once or twice a year and we can hear every take off up there. When the dust settled 4 of them could fly and were allowed to fly out to Orcland. The other 35 were disassembled and shipped by rail at Mother's expense back to the orcs. Not all of them made it, like the armor and such that was being shipped back all shipments stopped when the fighting in Novorossiya got serious in May of '14. Most of the orc equipment here had been stored outside for so long, and that included the aircraft, that it was nothing but scrap metal anyway.

    Did any of you notice the harness straps in the 'simulator'? Gawd. Only the orcs.....

    How many MiG-29s did Russia manage to ship to the Ukraine?

    There are 9 still sitting on the Belbek tarmac.
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    Post  KiloGolf Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:39 pm

    franco wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    auslander wrote:Back when the orcs were here there was 39 airframes stationed at Belbek. We rarely saw or heard one in the air, I'm talking once or twice a year and we can hear every take off up there. When the dust settled 4 of them could fly and were allowed to fly out to Orcland. The other 35 were disassembled and shipped by rail at Mother's expense back to the orcs. Not all of them made it, like the armor and such that was being shipped back all shipments stopped when the fighting in Novorossiya got serious in May of '14. Most of the orc equipment here had been stored outside for so long, and that included the aircraft, that it was nothing but scrap metal anyway.

    Did any of you notice the harness straps in the 'simulator'? Gawd. Only the orcs.....

    How many MiG-29s did Russia manage to ship to the Ukraine?

    There are 9 still sitting on the Belbek tarmac.

    Why Russia allowed that is beyond me.
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    Post  franco Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:47 pm

    90+% of the Ukrainian equipment seized by the Russians was junk so they sent it back to them. Both as a PR move and an insult.
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    Post  Viktor Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:17 pm

    Whats the status of Ukraine economy. Are western powers taking into account economies of DR/LR?
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:36 pm

    Its tanking enough that they are pushing for private healthcare by saying public is soviet legacy.

    Yes, they still account DNR/LNR since they see it as their territory and they occupy some of it.
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    Post  Viktor Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:51 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Its tanking enough that they are pushing for private healthcare by saying public is soviet legacy.

    They are mad. I think its only a matter of time and Russia has time. Its on the right path now.



    miketheterrible wrote:Yes, they still account DNR/LNR since they see it as their territory and they occupy some of it.

    But Novorrosia economy does not contribute to Ukraine? So how does it function? Ukraine takes official Novorossia economy data and adds them to they own? Smile

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:54 pm

    That's a good question as I do not know but would like to.

    Ukraine though is heading to dark days. They are becoming the Rambus of countries where their only method of survival and income is going to court against Russia and demanding billions.

    That is about it. The rest is a growing debt bomb.
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:50 pm

    The who pays what gas fight is slowly drawing to a close in Stockholm. A key date is the final presentation of their cases at the end of the month. Nail biting time for Kiev after that.

    https://sputniknews.com/world/201706061054352219-gazprom-ukraine-arbitration/
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:32 pm

    Nobody noticed anything going on in the Novorossiya lines?? All day fighting from Lughansk all the way down to Azov.
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:46 pm

    Sakhanka near the Sea in DNR, Golubivka and Donetskii in LNR are under attack and at Xholobok in LNR there is fierce fighting in the town. Fighting and bombardments from the orcs have been going on all day all around Donetsk City, now tapered off a little.
    medo
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    Post  medo Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:09 pm

    Anything more serious or small pushes on many locations?
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:20 pm

    Looks like they want Xholobok enough to fight hard for it. Other fights were both arty and infantry attacks supported by the usual tanks etc. No success that I know of beyond penetrating Xholobok but there was enough activity for parts of LNR and DNR to evacuate the children.

    Latest is they may have taken parts or all of Xholobok, map shows LNR lines now south of that tiny village.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:37 pm

    auslander wrote:Looks like they want Xholobok enough to fight hard for it. Other fights were both arty and infantry attacks supported by the usual tanks etc. No success that I know of beyond penetrating Xholobok but there was enough activity for parts of LNR and DNR to evacuate the children.

    Latest is they may have taken parts or all of Xholobok, map shows LNR lines now south of that tiny village.
    Is that village strategically important? Perhaps it was an outcrop in the line as the Orcs seem to have struck from both flanks.

    Maybe they think they can do this kind of operation as the world seems to be focused on the ME. Also no-one in the West seems to care anymore.
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    Post  medo Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:50 pm

    In satellite images from belbek air base there are still 9 ex-UKAF MiG-29 jets. I wonder if Russia could repair them and upgrade to MiG-29SM standard for Novorussia. Sooner or later Novorussia will have to create their own air force. They could station their jets in Lugansk airport, which is south of Lugansk city and far enough from the front line. Novorussian economy is growing, so they will be able to support a small air force in the size of a squadron of fighters and some transport planes.
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    Post  auslander Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:43 pm

    ]
    Is that village strategically important? Perhaps it was an outcrop in the line as the Orcs seem to have struck from both flanks.

    Maybe they think they can do this kind of operation as the world seems to be focused on the ME. Also no-one in the West seems to care anymore.[/quote]

    It's a settlement more than a village and from the looks of it LNR pulled back after some pretty stiff fighting in the village and their lines are now just southwest of the vill, set in a defensive arch around Donetskii which is almost a town. Who knows why but LNR says they took the vill back from the orcs.

    Medo, I don't know if those derelict airframes are still there or not, Google images of Krimea and Sevastopol are often older than dirt, notice you will not see any evidence of the Kerch Bridge being built on Google. Even if they are there and can be rebuilt I doubt Novorossiya will get an air force for the simple reason that they don't need one and if they did acquire some junque The World would scream 'Russian Migs, Russian Migs' every time they moved a millimeter.
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    Post  eehnie Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:53 pm

    medo wrote:In satellite images from belbek air base there are still 9 ex-UKAF MiG-29 jets. I wonder if Russia could repair them and upgrade to MiG-29SM standard for Novorussia. Sooner or later Novorussia will have to create their own air force. They could station their jets in Lugansk airport, which is south of Lugansk city and far enough from the front line. Novorussian economy is growing, so they will be able to support a small air force in the size of a squadron of fighters and some transport planes.

    I tend to think that these aircrafts can fly. The initial amount of Ukranian MiG-29 in Crimea was far bigger. I do not remember exactly, but far bigger. And these are the aircrafts that were keept until the last moment, and were not returned to Ukraine after the begin of the war. Surely because these were the aircrafts in beter condition. Even it is possible that minor reparis were done in these aircrafts at the time, canibalizing other units returned.
    Ispan
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    Post  Ispan Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:39 pm

    Daily meat grinder goes on and on. Ukrainian forces starting to run low on ammo. More on this at a later time.

    This morning following increased escalation in the Lugansk front wich used to be somewhat more calmn than Donetsk front, there was a intense bombardment and local attack by Ukrainian forces. Cassad as always, underestimates the fighting and says it's just a recon in force by a company at most. Based on past experience and the heavy artillery and armor involved, I think it's larger than that, a battallion sized grouping.

    http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/06/ukr...ull-scale.html


    Here's my compilation of today's events at Lugansk, is in Spanish but translation into English will be more readable and save you the time of checking various Russian sites

    https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/parte-de-guerra-07062017/

    In a nutshell: The Ukrops attacked with what was likely a mechanized batallion, with artillery preparation, mortars and tank support. After 3 attacks and fighting in the streets of Zholobok, they were kicked out but though the command says everything is fine, the fighting continues all along the Bakhmutka road



    About the previous advance and Ukrainian intentions, this article is very good, again Spanish translation from Russian

    https://slavyangrad.es/2017/06/07/sobre-los-ultimos-avances-ucranianos/

    Ispan
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    Post  Ispan Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:43 am

    Latest update from Lugansk front.

    Source, Lena Sorokina, with the militia, Prizrak Brigade

    24:00h


    Message from a friend.

    "Hello, at 22:00 hours the infantry attacks (except artillery) have ceased." The sons of bitches reinforce the positions occupied in the heights. Now the Ukros ask us permission to pick up the pieces of their men from the branches of trees.There is help from all, the Cossacks of Lugansk, everybody. Do not know who holds Zhelobok, is not clear (at 21:00 have said it is ours, but I do not know.) The Ukros attack Donetskiy "

    Preliminary analysis by Yura Sumy. (in Russian, but readable with auto trans)

    http://naspravdi.info/novosti/boi-za-zhelobok-pervyy-grubyy-analiz-0
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    Post  Ispan Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:58 pm

    Ammunition shortage starting to be felt by Ukrainian forces

    The source:

    http://voicesevas.ru/news/32125-podmochennyy-poroh-prezidenta-poroshenko.html

    Relevant excerpts:

    The news is amazing by the present times: a new ammunition production plant is already under construction in Ukraine. This was stated in Kiev by the president of the corporation Taxco Valery Pavlyukov. According to Pavlyukov, several shops have already been put into operation, ready to produce lethal products. At first - at least for some types of artillery.

    Not surprisingly, many local media have enthusiastically multiplied this message. After alleverybody knows that the Ukrainian troops already experience an acute shortage in many types of ammunition in the Donbas. Accurate data on this account, of course, in Kiev are stored under the label "secret". But the leadership of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) is clearly very nervous about this.


    In the Ukrainian press in recent months, there have been reports from the anonymous members of the so-called "ATO" that in their trenches there is not enough fragmentation grenade launcher ammunition VOG-25 and VOG-17 for the grenades and automatic grenade launchers AGS-17 "Flame". For sniper rifles, soldiers are forced to use machine-gun cartridges instead of regular ones. That has a disastrous effect on the accuracy of shooting and the condition of the barrels.



    In Kiev, the information and consulting company Defense Express has somehow calculated if the fighting in the Donbas for another ten to twelve months continued with the same intensity that in the ehot" phase of 2014, then Ukraine would have exhausted the most common Kalashnikov caliber ammo before End of 2016. Further fighting would be with bows and arrows.


    Note: the issue is not exclusively about small arms, indispensable in trench warfare. Namely, such a senseless and never-ending massacre has been slowly smoldering in the Donbass for several years. If the fighting there suddenly goes into a more active phase, the sides of the conflict will have to use even more actively tanks and artillery. But there is reason to believe that for some artillery systems of the AFU everything is even worse. Especially for MLRS "Smerch" and "Hurricane", which were used most actively by AFU in the first months of the war. Please note: these formidable systems are almost silent today. And, of course, not because the use of any types of MLRS is prohibited by the Minsk Agreements. Tanks and artillery large calibers in accordance with these arrangements, too, for a long time and certainly Kiev should be taken for a line of contact. But... in fact, have not disappeared from the front line and continue almost daily firing on the rebellious Donbas.


    There is convincing evidence that the 152-mm towed 2A36 "Hyacinth-B" cannon, the 152-mm self-propelled Msta-B howitzer... are seldom used against the militia by the Ukrainian armed forces

    [Daily war reports confirm that the Ukrainians seldom use anymore their heavy artillery, the more so since the Kharkov ammo dump explosion this spring]

    . The reason is the same. In fact, they have nothing with wich to shoot. And if there is anything left, the commanders are keeping it in case of aggravation of hostilities.

    . As an inheritance from the USSR, Ukraine inherited mountains of virtually all kinds of ammunition. Even after the active sale of part of them abroad, after organized and spontaneous disposal in the form of a series of devastating explosions and fires in numerous Ukrainian arsenals, by 2005 the country, according to the Kiev Razumkov Foundation, had 2.5 million tons of cartridges, shells, missiles , Mines, etc. By the time the ATO began, according to estimates of local experts, there was something about 2.16 million tons.

    Still a lot? I guess, yes. But here one should take into account one important circumstance. The average technical life of each ammunition is about 12 years. The maximum is 35 years. Ukraine itself could not produce much in this area. Except small ammunition that until 2014 was properly manufactured by a large Lugansk cartridge factory. Moreover, in Shostka, at the state factory, some types of 23 mm, 30 mm, 100 mm artillery and 125 mm tank shells were produced.
    ...
    the last deliveries of ammunition to the country from the territory of present-day Russia are dated 1989-1990. This is also mentioned in the mentioned report of the Razumkov Center for 2005.

    It turns out that in 2014, when the civil war began, and today, when it still does not see the end, AFU shoots almost exclusively expired shells and mines.

    [reports from the front confirm an unusual high proportion of duds. This was sometimes attributed to sabotage by pro-Russian artillerists sympathetic to the rebels, or having scruples about shelling civilians, sadly, the simpler explanation of fuse failure seems true]


    Not only that the effectiveness of this shooting inspires serious doubts. So also the suicidal self-destruction of their own artillery because of this junk long ago became a common thing in Ukrainian troops.

    [Ukrainian forces suffer high casualties from accidents handling ammunition, either from carelessness or unstable explosives. There's some truth to this, but it's also serves as a cover story for accurate Novorussian counterbattery fire]


    (rest is about the failures of the Ukrainian regime to set up manufacture of ammunition and large caliber artillery rockets in particular)


    PS The low stocks may prompt the AFU to finally try a great scale offensive this summer. Unfortunately, the US will certainly not allow the Ukraine regime to be defeated or cease war by lack of ammunition and most likely will arrange with Poland to supply 122mm shells from their stocks, and perhaps Bulgaria will provide small arms ammunition. That being said, producing ammunition in the quantities needed will recquire a lot more money than what the US is providing now.

    PPS The ammunition shortage proves the high consumption given the huge stocks, and indirectly confirms the estimates about the true intensity of the war and the consequent casualties in the tens of thousands.
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:17 pm

    Things aren't good for naf as the ukrainians are taking the grey areas.
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    Post  VladimirSahin Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:05 pm

    Let them take the grey zones, the counter-offensives that usually follow end up in disaster for Ukrainians. Wouldn't mind a Russian BTG to slip in and handle the situation...
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    Post  auslander Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:51 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:Let them take the grey zones, the counter-offensives that usually follow end up in disaster for Ukrainians. Wouldn't mind a Russian BTG to slip in and handle the situation...

    NAF doesn't need any help, someone needs to slip the leash for a while is all.
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:48 pm

    auslander wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:Let them take the grey zones, the counter-offensives that usually follow end up in disaster for Ukrainians. Wouldn't mind a Russian BTG to slip in and handle the situation...
    NAF doesn't need any help, someone needs to slip the leash for a while is all.

    Another ukrop attention grab attempt.

    Things are going to the dogs big time for them.

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