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I think Mi-28NM Will also get those pods on the ends of the wings with chaff and flares and LWR detectors and most probably with MAWS as well.
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Mi-28N Havoc: News
medo- Posts : 4342
Points : 4422
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
GarryB- Posts : 39028
Points : 39524
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
AFAIK the Mi28N is a modified aircraft of the 1980s.
I hope the Mi-28M has all the electronics and sensors and systems upgraded to current, but as I said a more aerodynamic ammo storage option for the main gun would have been nice IMHO.
Even a change in calibre to the twin 23mm cannon of the new Hinds with smaller more compact ammo with lower recoil could have been a better option in my opinion... though information about how the gun is performing in Syria and Iraq would be useful to consider this option.
I hope the Mi-28M has all the electronics and sensors and systems upgraded to current, but as I said a more aerodynamic ammo storage option for the main gun would have been nice IMHO.
Even a change in calibre to the twin 23mm cannon of the new Hinds with smaller more compact ammo with lower recoil could have been a better option in my opinion... though information about how the gun is performing in Syria and Iraq would be useful to consider this option.
Werewolf- Posts : 5915
Points : 6104
Join date : 2012-10-25
The tailboom and the new mounting plattform is probably already used for a 3 ball DIRCM version like for the Hind, maybe i am wrong but it is a strange location for any sensor and the size of it would suggest something differet than radio equipment.
The problem the Mi-28 has is indeed the mounting of the gun aswell the low ammunition storage. The gun itself is highly precise but the mounting and the recoil of 40-50kN (depending on cadency) is enormous and destroys any accurate fire to offbore unlike on Kamov setup. Meaning either they figure out simple solution to solve the storage problem which is high air drag aswell low capacity and the horrible inaccuracy in far offbore engagements or they have in most of the cases dead weight as weapon that can only be effective in head on engagements. Such engagements and scenarios are always prefered but not always the best solution for a specific job and it is not a co-axial helicopter that can turn its entire body while flying in a different direction.
The problem the Mi-28 has is indeed the mounting of the gun aswell the low ammunition storage. The gun itself is highly precise but the mounting and the recoil of 40-50kN (depending on cadency) is enormous and destroys any accurate fire to offbore unlike on Kamov setup. Meaning either they figure out simple solution to solve the storage problem which is high air drag aswell low capacity and the horrible inaccuracy in far offbore engagements or they have in most of the cases dead weight as weapon that can only be effective in head on engagements. Such engagements and scenarios are always prefered but not always the best solution for a specific job and it is not a co-axial helicopter that can turn its entire body while flying in a different direction.
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
As ugly as the nose thimble was, it looks really weird without itlol, they managed to make the Mi-28 even uglier. cheers
Mi-28 is one of those things so ugly it becomes kinda beautiful.
Project Canada- Posts : 662
Points : 663
Join date : 2015-07-20
Location : Canada
actually, i find the new look impressive
George1- Posts : 18326
Points : 18823
Join date : 2011-12-23
Location : Greece
Night Hunter helicopter’s deliveries to troops to begin no later than 2018 — commander
More:
http://tass.ru/en/defense/892395
More:
http://tass.ru/en/defense/892395
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
Points : 8273
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
Zivo wrote:lol, they managed to make the Mi-28 even uglier.
Ugly? It looks beautiful in this photo:
...I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder...but I'm sure going to miss the mickey mouse nose!
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3700
Points : 3680
Join date : 2016-04-09
magnumcromagnon wrote:Zivo wrote:lol, they managed to make the Mi-28 even uglier.
Ugly? It looks beautiful in this photo:
...I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder...but I'm sure going to miss the mickey mouse nose!
thats a fine look chopper.
that said, looks don't matter rather have an ugly chopper good at killing then a nice looking one bad at it.
DerWolf- Posts : 204
Points : 204
Join date : 2015-12-07
Is this MI-28U the trainer version, or MI-28 NM ?
franco- Posts : 6710
Points : 6736
Join date : 2010-08-18
DerWolf wrote:Is this MI-28U the trainer version, or MI-28 NM ?
Mi-28U is the trainer version with combat capabilities (24 ordered). The only order for Mi-28NM so far was one for testing.
Cyrus the great- Posts : 303
Points : 311
Join date : 2015-06-13
GarryB wrote:I quite like the South African Helo, but those claims are a little weird.
First of all hover out of ground effect is not really of great importance... if you are flying at 5km altitude then a MiG-29 from 60km away will see you and shoot you down and there is very little you could do in return from that altitude.
From what I can tell the Rooivalk has a top speed of about 309km/h... both the Hokum and Havoc are faster and rather better armed with 30mm cannon and the new Hermes missiles offering 20km range.
I also found some of the claims hard to believe. The claim that it has the best power to weight ratio sounds like absolute bollocks to me. Being able to perform over 5km at altitude is quite a good ability to have in mountainous areas, and since a military would only deploy helicopters after air superiority has been gained and established, enemy jets shouldn't really be a factor. Please correct me if I'm wrong; I've read that coaxial rotors increase lift and so I assume that the ka-52 would be able to have an "out-of-ground effect hover ceiling exceeding that of the Rooivalk if its weight was reduced by two [2] tons (within the weight range of the Rooivalk) using new materials that are also very cheap. The aforementioned light (and crucially also cheap) materials should allow Kamov to drastically reduce the weight of the Ka-52 while maintaining its already excellent protection and increasing other performance to levels considerably beyond that of the Rooivalk or any other contemporary attack helicopter in every performance criteria.
Project Canada- Posts : 662
Points : 663
Join date : 2015-07-20
Location : Canada
Began flight tests of the upgraded "Night Hunter"
As part of the modernization of the helicopter got a new sighting and flight-navigation system, equipped with computing facilities, and a new cockpit
Began flight tests of the upgraded "Night Hunter"
As part of the modernization of the helicopter got a new sighting and flight-navigation system, equipped with computing facilities, and a new cockpit
September 9, 2016, 7:06
Upgraded helicopter "Night Hunter" started the flight-test program. On Friday TASS reported the press service of the holding company "Russian Helicopters".
"On the flight test complex of the Moscow Helicopter Plant Mil began flight testing a prototype of the modernized version of the combat helicopter Mi-28 product is" 296 ", - said in a statement.
As part of the modernization of the helicopter got a new sighting and flight-navigation system, equipped with computing facilities. In addition, the modernization undergone cabin crew commander and pilot-operator will now receive information about the environment and the work of all vehicle systems to a greater extent and in a more accessible form.
"When you create a helicopter Mi-28 product is" 296 "has been the experience of the development of training and combat Mi-28UB: in the front cabin of the helicopter Mi-28, a product" 296 "is set to the second set of controls The helicopter is equipped with advanced nadvtulochnoy radar has enhanced capabilities. the use of precision weapons, including homing missiles, "- noted in the holding.
The armament of the modernized Mi-28N includes guided and unguided rocket armament, bomb weapons, as well as a movable gun mount with a gun caliber 30 mm. The press service also stressed that the cabin crew reliable armored, that provides protection against armor-piercing bullets and projectiles caliber 20 mm.
Helicopter rotor blades are made of composite materials. As noted in the holding, it allows you to safely complete the flight when hit by 20-30 mm caliber ammunition, and fuel system design eliminates explosion or ignition of fuel.
Earlier, Deputy Director Alexander geneneralnogo Shcherbinin Holding said that the tests of the modernized Mi-28N will be completed in 2017.
https://defence.ru/military_aviation/nachalis-letnie-ispitaniya-modernizirovannogo-nochnogo-okhotnika/
A1RMAN- Posts : 53
Points : 53
Join date : 2016-10-08
Mi-28NM is gonna get modernized anti-tank missiles.
They are working on improving Ataka and Khrizantema rockets. Ataka rockets will have 8km range instead of 6km.
https://lenta.ru/news/2016/10/21/mi28nm/
They are working on improving Ataka and Khrizantema rockets. Ataka rockets will have 8km range instead of 6km.
https://lenta.ru/news/2016/10/21/mi28nm/
JohninMK- Posts : 14713
Points : 14848
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : England
Yes because its cheap and cost effective.KoTeMoRe wrote:Hey see we have these Vihr missiles, they're supersonic, polyvalent and have extended range!
Nope we're going to modernize our rust pipes, because we can.
Just look what the US, and probably everyone else as well, will be doing given they are gearing up to 20k pa. OK the price is crazy (but BAE pays British Corporation Tax
) but its a very good concept.BAE Systems has been awarded a three-year contract from the US Navy worth up to $600 million to support deliveries of its Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System (APKWS).
This is the first indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity (IDIQ) contract for the precision-guided weapon system, and will support a ramp-up of deliveries from 1,500-2,000 units at the current rate to 5,000 in the first year of the new arrangement.
APKWS is a laser-guidance kit that converts 2.75in-diameter (70mm) rockets into precision-guided weapons. Some 7,000 units have been delivered to date, the company says, and rounds will be provided to all US services through the new deal with the USN.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/bae-to-up-the-pace-on-apkws-production-430531/
d_taddei2- Posts : 2949
Points : 3123
Join date : 2013-05-11
Location : Scotland Alba
is this really the small compartment that can hold 3 men? if so thats pretty small and cramped. I know its not really intended for transporting annyone but more for rescue operations to which i am sure the person being rescued would be more than grateful even in cramped conditions.
Svyatoslavich- Posts : 399
Points : 400
Join date : 2015-04-22
Location : Buenos Aires
It is the avionics bay. This space was not designed to transport people (no ventilation, difficult access, if the engines are turned on it is directly below hot exhaust), rather to give access to the avionics during maintenance. In combat rescue operations, a way better idea would be to send a Mi-24/35. But who knows, if one day there is really a need, perhaps it can be used to transport a downed crew for a short distance.d_taddei2 wrote:is this really the small compartment that can hold 3 men? if so thats pretty small and cramped. I know its not really intended for transporting annyone but more for rescue operations to which i am sure the person being rescued would be more than grateful even in cramped conditions.
GarryB- Posts : 39028
Points : 39524
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Yes, it is an avionics bay... I very much doubt you could get three people in there... possibly two but with no equipment and a squeese.
You could go into the side and then turn left and there are racks to your left and right with avionics down each side... it would be an L shaped space that one person could squeese in there with a second person facing the small door way but it would be very uncomfortable and not really that safe.
When they say that it could accommodate one or two people in an emergency they actually mean a real emergency... if an Mi-28 went down and there were two crew on the ground two Mi-28s might land and take on one crewman in each if the area was under threat of being over run type thing.
Not something they would plan for.
Another factor would be that in the new version that avionics bay will likely be full and hot. I would expect some sort of ventilation to keep the avionics from overheating but it would not be comfortable...
You could go into the side and then turn left and there are racks to your left and right with avionics down each side... it would be an L shaped space that one person could squeese in there with a second person facing the small door way but it would be very uncomfortable and not really that safe.
When they say that it could accommodate one or two people in an emergency they actually mean a real emergency... if an Mi-28 went down and there were two crew on the ground two Mi-28s might land and take on one crewman in each if the area was under threat of being over run type thing.
Not something they would plan for.
Another factor would be that in the new version that avionics bay will likely be full and hot. I would expect some sort of ventilation to keep the avionics from overheating but it would not be comfortable...
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
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Join date : 2015-04-22
Location : Krankhaus Central.
When you peek inside, it can hold three people provided you only want to GTFO of somewhere extra pronto.
You have to squat between the two shelves and have a good sauna record.
You have to squat between the two shelves and have a good sauna record.
d_taddei2- Posts : 2949
Points : 3123
Join date : 2013-05-11
Location : Scotland Alba
i knew that it wasn't really designed for transport purpose but like i said but rescue of pilots etc. But like you said not ideal and cramped and hot, but i would rather suffer that for 30-45mins than be tortured to death by ISIS or any other crazies.
GarryB- Posts : 39028
Points : 39524
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Actually I just had an idea... what about putting a fuel bladder in there so that before takeoff you could fill it up with fuel to add range/flight persistance.
Use that fuel first so by the time you reach the target area the bladder is deflated and so if needed you can access the compartment but have main fuel tanks full.
The idea seems strange but it means the external surfaces can be properly armoured instead of being light doors to allow access to avionics... the drawback means a large internal area that is an inefficient use of space... but reserve fuel could solve that issue...
Use that fuel first so by the time you reach the target area the bladder is deflated and so if needed you can access the compartment but have main fuel tanks full.
The idea seems strange but it means the external surfaces can be properly armoured instead of being light doors to allow access to avionics... the drawback means a large internal area that is an inefficient use of space... but reserve fuel could solve that issue...
JohninMK- Posts : 14713
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Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : England
Russia's upgraded Mi-28NM Night Hunter attack helicopter has become "an almost perfect combat vehicle" thanks to a number of innovations, according to Alexander Mikheev, chief executive of the helicopter design and manufacturing company Russian Helicopters.
Russian Helicopters has upgraded its Mi-28NM Night Hunter attack helicopter using a number of key innovations, which made the Mi-28NM an almost-perfect combat vehicle, the state-owned manufacturer's CEO Alexander Mikheev was quoted by the newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta as saying. In an end of the year address to the readers of Russian Helicopters' online magazine, Mikheyev, in particular, recalled that "the outgoing year has been significant for a large number of our helicopter programs." "The upgraded Mi-28NM made its maiden flight. Innovative technology and solutions implemented in the design of that helicopter not only improved its characteristics, but also made the Mi-28NM an almost perfect combat vehicle," Mikheyev said.
The Mi-28NM is a modernized version of the Mi-28N Night Hunter attack helicopter; it is being upgraded to become a fifth-generation gunship. The project, which has been in the works since 2008, is expected to be complete in 2017. The helicopter features a 360-degree radar and advanced weapons guidance system that ensure faster target acquisition through an upgrade to the Mi-26NM's fire control system. Unlike its predecessor, the Mi-28NM can be piloted by the gunner and is better suited for the use of high-precision ordnance.
Upgraded "Night Hunter" Mi-28nm with the latest technical https://t.co/ACjAHsS2aE pic.twitter.com/0Fnwucvhwb — pete john (@petejohn10) 30 декабря 2016 г.
During a visit to Russian Helicopters' Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant where the Mi-28NM's flight tests started last year, Russia's Deputy Minister of Defense Yury Borisov expressed hope that the upgraded Mi-28NM will make a significant contribution to improving the combat capabilities of the Russian Defense Ministry's army aviation, according to Russian Helicopters' online magazine.
Russian Helicopters CEO touching upon the helicopter's modernization, the magazine specifically mentioned the Mi-28NM's cockpit. It was upgraded "so that the commander and the operating pilot can receive more information about the environment and all helicopter systems in a more accessible format, which will increase the crew's situational awareness, facilitate interaction and increase the speed of decision-making in complex combat situations." "The cockpit is reliably armoured and protects the crew against armour-piercing bullets and projectiles with a caliber up to 20 mm," according to the magazine.
Read more: https://sputniknews.com/russia/201701041049258802-russia-helicopter-modernization-combat-vehicle/
Russian Helicopters has upgraded its Mi-28NM Night Hunter attack helicopter using a number of key innovations, which made the Mi-28NM an almost-perfect combat vehicle, the state-owned manufacturer's CEO Alexander Mikheev was quoted by the newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta as saying. In an end of the year address to the readers of Russian Helicopters' online magazine, Mikheyev, in particular, recalled that "the outgoing year has been significant for a large number of our helicopter programs." "The upgraded Mi-28NM made its maiden flight. Innovative technology and solutions implemented in the design of that helicopter not only improved its characteristics, but also made the Mi-28NM an almost perfect combat vehicle," Mikheyev said.
The Mi-28NM is a modernized version of the Mi-28N Night Hunter attack helicopter; it is being upgraded to become a fifth-generation gunship. The project, which has been in the works since 2008, is expected to be complete in 2017. The helicopter features a 360-degree radar and advanced weapons guidance system that ensure faster target acquisition through an upgrade to the Mi-26NM's fire control system. Unlike its predecessor, the Mi-28NM can be piloted by the gunner and is better suited for the use of high-precision ordnance.
Upgraded "Night Hunter" Mi-28nm with the latest technical https://t.co/ACjAHsS2aE pic.twitter.com/0Fnwucvhwb — pete john (@petejohn10) 30 декабря 2016 г.
During a visit to Russian Helicopters' Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant where the Mi-28NM's flight tests started last year, Russia's Deputy Minister of Defense Yury Borisov expressed hope that the upgraded Mi-28NM will make a significant contribution to improving the combat capabilities of the Russian Defense Ministry's army aviation, according to Russian Helicopters' online magazine.
Russian Helicopters CEO touching upon the helicopter's modernization, the magazine specifically mentioned the Mi-28NM's cockpit. It was upgraded "so that the commander and the operating pilot can receive more information about the environment and all helicopter systems in a more accessible format, which will increase the crew's situational awareness, facilitate interaction and increase the speed of decision-making in complex combat situations." "The cockpit is reliably armoured and protects the crew against armour-piercing bullets and projectiles with a caliber up to 20 mm," according to the magazine.
Read more: https://sputniknews.com/russia/201701041049258802-russia-helicopter-modernization-combat-vehicle/
KomissarBojanchev- Posts : 1429
Points : 1584
Join date : 2012-08-05
Age : 26
Location : Varna, Bulgaria
Why hasn't the hermes system been mounted yet? Its been "on the way" for almost a decade by now.
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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Join date : 2016-11-07
There was claims I read that it was used in Syria onboard testing. So who knows.
coolieno99- Posts : 137
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Join date : 2010-08-25
nice video on the manufacturing process of the Mi-28 attack helicopter
Cyrus the great- Posts : 303
Points : 311
Join date : 2015-06-13
How does the NO25 radar compare to the Longbow?
I still regard the Kamov helicopters to be the best in the world, but the fact that the Havoc has a radar with a 360° radius capability for ground operations gives it a substantial advantage over the Ka-52.
The Ka-52 can partially overcome this disadvantage with its coaxial rotors by spinning on its axis and will have drones at its disposal to gather vital intelligence. Russia has obviously resolved that both the Ka-52 and the Mi-28 will serve in the air force -- with the incredibly advanced Ka-52 assuming the role of a command helicopter due to its powerful radar and its plethora of sensors.
The Ka-50 is the only helicopter with comparable or superior armour protection to the Mi-28. The Ka-52 is not as well armoured as the Mi-28 and its side by side configuration further compromises the protection level; one penetration can kill both the pilot and the gunner.
I read that one of the reasons the Ka-50 did not have the steped conventional tandem seat configuration was due to considerations of weight. I suppose it's too late now, but new metallurgical advances could make a stepped two seater Ka-50 variant a reality; the new lighter, stronger and cheaper metals could reduce the weight of such a platform -- making it 13% lighter than the Ka-50... one with the nose mounted radar of the Ka-52.
I still regard the Kamov helicopters to be the best in the world, but the fact that the Havoc has a radar with a 360° radius capability for ground operations gives it a substantial advantage over the Ka-52.
The Ka-52 can partially overcome this disadvantage with its coaxial rotors by spinning on its axis and will have drones at its disposal to gather vital intelligence. Russia has obviously resolved that both the Ka-52 and the Mi-28 will serve in the air force -- with the incredibly advanced Ka-52 assuming the role of a command helicopter due to its powerful radar and its plethora of sensors.
The Ka-50 is the only helicopter with comparable or superior armour protection to the Mi-28. The Ka-52 is not as well armoured as the Mi-28 and its side by side configuration further compromises the protection level; one penetration can kill both the pilot and the gunner.
I read that one of the reasons the Ka-50 did not have the steped conventional tandem seat configuration was due to considerations of weight. I suppose it's too late now, but new metallurgical advances could make a stepped two seater Ka-50 variant a reality; the new lighter, stronger and cheaper metals could reduce the weight of such a platform -- making it 13% lighter than the Ka-50... one with the nose mounted radar of the Ka-52.
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