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84 posters

    Mi-28N Havoc: News

    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Mi-28N Havoc: News - Page 22 Empty Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 09, 2023 7:49 pm

    They can't even design a turbine and imports that from Ukraine. Anyone can design a ship, even North Korea can.

    It does not matter whether they can made turbine engines or not, it is a question of what Russia should do with all the rupees their sales of oil and weapons to India, and spending them on India making commercial ships for Russian companies makes sense. Or they can make other things... why not set up a drone factory to make tens of millions of drones with Indian labour. Use local materials and local workers and pay in the rupees you earn from energy and military sales to India and send the drones to Russia for all sorts of purposes...

    (They could be civilian and military)

    Because China is an ally of Russia and won't back stab Russia like India.

    Russia has billions of rupees that they would benefit from finding something to spend them on in India... building ships that Russian companies need or making cheap simple drones from materials bought in India would be a useful way of spending that money. The drones and ships can be used in Russia.

    They are also more professional and will stick to a deadline and build ships at a far more affordable price than India.

    Russia has an enormous trade surplus with India... if they spend money in China that does not help with their problem of too many Rupees.

    At least India is still buying russian stuff and isn't as afriad as China to say no to the US.

    If India wasn't friendly there would be no trade balance problem to solve. India has corruption of course, but when it is important they will say no to the US.

    But China and India are buying oil and gas that Europe used to buy and both countries are increasing purchases of Russian goods while not following western imposed sanctions.

    I think the west has ruined the definition of what an ally should be. The western definition of ally would better equate to bitch. The EU is Americas bitch and will destroy its own economy by cutting out cheap energy from Russia just because the US asks them to... at a time when the US is not cutting back its imports of Russian energy including Uranium. That is a real stupid bitch right there.

    Chine ois no way licking US boots,

    India and China are walking a balancing act but are pissing the west off way more than they are going against Russia... the west thinks neutral is sending all the cold war Soviet arms you have in stocks to Kiev... otherwise you are Putins puppet.

    some, not all some licenses were sold. Russian stuff they buy S-400 or Su-35. Russia doesnt have much of industrial capcity to sell more rn durign war.

    We have no idea about what is happening with Chinese weapons... some might be licence produced, some might have been contracts to hire Russian companies for basic design with the Chinese putting in their own fillings or it just might be copying shapes and then going from there.

    Many of the new big Russian drones look like western types... the laws of physics are for everyone...

    stay on topic pls

    Thanks George... good point...

    I will be reviewing this thread and might move parts of it to a more suitable thread...

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    GarryB
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    Mi-28N Havoc: News - Page 22 Empty Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 10, 2023 2:52 am

    The Ka-52 like the Ka-50 also has a wider weapons variety compared to Mi-28NM.

    The weapons the Ka-52 carries that the Mi-28 does not are missiles attack helicopters normally would not carry.

    I have seen Kh-35s on the Hokum, but that really isn't a huge string to its bow because while it might carry such a missile at sea it probably would never carry such a weapon on land.

    I have seen Kh-25ML missiles carried but equally such missiles would be superseded now by LMUR missiles which both helicopters carry.

    Otherwise it seems to me that they have made a conscious effort to ensure both aircraft can carry the missiles traditionally carried by each aircraft, so that has been largely nullified.

    The flight characteristics for Ka-52 is also superior compared to Mi-28NM based on the co-axial design as well as the aerodynamics.

    There are limits imposed by the coaxial design too, it is not a perfect system.

    Most of the other aspects have been already said by others and one more additional thing that has been proven to exist since Ka-50 is the automated scanning and image recognition system

    Which was not an advantage but a necessity being a single seat aircraft...

    Okhotnik which I haven't seen on Mi-28N, yet.

    I would think all their new aircraft and ground vehicles are getting communication and control links to all sorts of types of drones.

    Apache is still not combat proven. I want to see it in an area full of manpads.

    It is not combat proven in the sense that it has never operated against an enemy with 1980s level Soviet air defences. In comparison Russian helicopters are currently operating in a combat environment very similar to fighting HATO... total lack of effective ground based air defence, after having survived the initial period of an air defence situation comparable to a mid 1990s Russian air defence threat situation... which is pretty damn impressive.

        Iraqis & Afghans had many of them since the early 1990s!

    Nothing like the capacity of Ukraine... or Turkish/western supported Syria...

    the US won't object their use vs. PRC/Pakistan, as to them they r also hostile states allied with each other.

    It only takes a couple of congressmen or senators to object to anything... even something unrelated to what they are doing to stop their ability to use them in protest.

    How long before the US thinks India could send all its Russian compatible ammo and weapons to Kiev because then US companies can earn trillions restocking India the way they are going to be restocking the EU over the next decade or so.

    Such plans don't have to succeed for them to be tried.

    Discussion back to Mi-28 please.

    It can clearly communicate with drones:

    Mi-28N Havoc: News - Page 22 Iinqmr10

    Mi-28N Havoc: News - Page 22 Img_2110

    And it can clearly carry all the missiles it needs to carry:

    Mi-28N Havoc: News - Page 22 Mi-28n11
    (left to right... Ataka/Shturm, Igla/Verba, Vikhr, and probably Hermes/SOSNA... it can also carry rocket pods and LMUR missiles)

    With new airburst 30mm cannon shells and other new weapons like LMUR and new guided 80mm rockets and improved 57mm rockets it is going from strength to strength.

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    TMA1
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    Mi-28N Havoc: News - Page 22 Empty Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  TMA1 Sat Sep 16, 2023 1:12 am

    Mi-28N Havoc: News - Page 22 Aec53810

    Saw this over at paralay's site. Some little changes here and there. The new blades, but also the EO drum looks bigger and thicker. Other small changes noted as well.

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    lyle6
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    Mi-28N Havoc: News - Page 22 Empty Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  lyle6 Sat Sep 30, 2023 10:11 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Mi-28N Havoc: News - Page 22 Mi-28n11
    (left to right... Ataka/Shturm, Igla/Verba, Vikhr, and probably Hermes/SOSNA... it can also carry rocket pods and LMUR missiles)
    .
    Not Hermes or Sosna, but 9M123M Khrizantema-VM. Has a much larger 152 mm diameter tandem shaped-charge warhead (Vikhr to the left has a 130mm diameter warhead) that can pierce the most heavily armored NATO MBTs from the front, and then some.

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    GarryB
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    Mi-28N Havoc: News - Page 22 Empty Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:21 am

    Any other details on this new Khrisantema missile?

    Odd that they have it because the projected Hermes-A has a booster size of about 170mm calibre and a missile calibre of 130mm with a range of about 15km in about 2004. The new requirement for the ground to ground model to be a powered missile might have led to a larger booster and a much thicker heavier missile of course.

    They also delayed the introduction of the SOSNA to increase its flight range to 20km I seem to remember reading... and still no further info about Bulat.
    lyle6
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    Mi-28N Havoc: News - Page 22 Empty Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  lyle6 Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:45 am

    GarryB wrote:Any other details on this new Khrisantema missile?
    One small caveat: The radar guidance mode requires a dedicated aiming pod so you lose a weapon station.

    Its not much heavier than Ataka so the Mi-28NM should carry about as much. Other than that, not much else.

    GarryB wrote:
    Odd that they have it because the projected Hermes-A has a booster size of about 170mm calibre and a missile calibre of 130mm with a range of about 15km in about 2004. The new requirement for the ground to ground model to be a powered missile might have led to a larger booster and a much thicker heavier missile of course.

    They also delayed the introduction of the SOSNA to increase its flight range to 20km I seem to remember reading... and still no further info about Bulat.
    I think Hermes-A and its massive stand-off capability is just not needed. NATO doesn't have a Tor-M2 or a Pantsir-SM that can really punish low flying targets if they made the mistake of getting too close.

    But 9M337 will make Russian attack helicopters a lot more deadlier to more numerous NATO air targets so they will definitely adopt it.

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