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    Shenyang J-31 Stealth Fighter

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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:19 pm

    The whole thing with the F-35 is that its supose to sneak up on you without you even taking notice. Im sure the F-15E and Su-35, Rafale, and Eurofighter can beat it in close range, hell even a Saab Gripen is a better dogfighter. The problem is they never get the chance.
    The F-35 achieved a 20 to 1 kill ratio in its first Red flag against "legace fighters", that says alot.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:22 pm

    walle83 wrote:The whole thing with the F-35 is that its supose to sneak up on you without you even taking notice. Im sure the F-15E and Su-35, Rafale, and Eurofighter can beat it in close range, hell even a Saab Gripen is a better dogfighter. The problem is they never get the chance.
    The F-35 achieved a 20 to 1 kill ratio in its first Red flag against "legace fighters", that says alot.

    It says nothing actually. With good EW you are pretty safe from their amraams. EW detects the f-35 passively.

    All rafale, su-35, grippen and typhoon have very good EW. F-15 don't because they never really upgraded its EW.

    Red flag is a shitty marketing event where US fighter always achieve 1000 against 10 wins.

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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:58 pm

    Isos wrote:
    walle83 wrote:The whole thing with the F-35 is that its supose to sneak up on you without you even taking notice. Im sure the F-15E and Su-35, Rafale, and Eurofighter can beat it in close range, hell even a Saab Gripen is a better dogfighter. The problem is they never get the chance.
    The F-35 achieved a 20 to 1 kill ratio in its first Red flag against "legace fighters", that says alot.

    It says nothing actually. With good EW you are pretty safe from their amraams. EW detects the f-35 passively.

    All rafale, su-35, grippen and typhoon have very good EW. F-15 don't because they never really upgraded its EW.

    Red flag is a shitty marketing event where US fighter always achieve 1000 against 10 wins.

    Not really, other countries has gotten good numbers against us fighters in the past. The Gripen C recived high price a few years ago after getting very nice ratio against us fighters like the F-16 and F-15.

    Detecting a faint f-35 is one thing, that has a RCS of a golfball, take it out before it takes you out is another.
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    Post  Isos Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:32 am

    US exercises and all those 110:10 wins are total bullshit. Locking with a radar or with its IR missile means a hit in such scenario when reality is way different. Pakistani amraam missed indian su-30 (with a rcs of 15m2), US aim 9X the most modern was fooled by syrian su-22's flares...

    F-35 may be stealthy and hard to detect but what matters is being able to evade its missiles at mong range. When you close the gap you just launch your own missiles and get into dogfight.

    To launch its amraams the f-35 needs to use its radar which will reveal its position on your EW display just like it would if you detected it with your radar. You can even launch a meteor or a r-77 with such passive detection.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:09 am

    Both planes still look like massive flops. I'd take a Strike Eagle or a Flanker.. any day.

    They are super expensive because they are supposed to be stealthy... if you take that away then they are in trouble because all the 5th gen high tech avionics and shit... is going in to the new Su-35s and new F-15s too.

    More important the US does not seem to have developed the IRST and wing mounted AESA L band radar arrays the Russians have optimised for anti stealth aircraft use...

    In a dogfight perhaps yes, but when it comes to electronics, sensors and stealth a 4th gen fighter just isnt good enough.

    Su-35 has similar stuff to the Su-57 installed in it including wing mounted L band AESA and modern IRST for hunting stealth aircraft...

    Anything they could fit in an F-35 they could put in a new build F-15... but the Russians have been working longer and harder to find anti stealth technology for their aircraft...

    With R-77M, R-37M, pl-15/21, Meteor and new US aim 260 I wouldn't want to be in a old flanker or eagle.

    Old aircraft are getting upgrades for less than the price of the F-35 programme...

    At close range su-27 would be better than a lot of newer jets. However getting in a dogfight against an enemy carrying new state of art missiles is not easy.

    But it really comes down to how effective modern IR and ARH missiles are against modern EW technology, and at the end of the day when missiles live up to their name and miss then it comes down to guns... in which case the F-35 is known to be at a disadvantage against most modern fighters.

    All the aircraft have pretty bad availability rates in peace time... in war time that changes.

    I would expect the opposite to be true... when supply chains are destroyed along with factories, then problems increase... they don't go away.

    The whole thing with the F-35 is that its supose to sneak up on you without you even taking notice.

    So it doesn't work until your IADS is destroyed... good luck with that. The Su-35 has wing mounted L band AESA antenna that should allow it to find stealth aircraft and hunt them...

    Im sure the F-15E and Su-35, Rafale, and Eurofighter can beat it in close range, hell even a Saab Gripen is a better dogfighter. The problem is they never get the chance.

    I am guessing that in training they don't give them a chance... if it was so damn invisible and fantastic why wont Israeli F-35s dare enter Syrian airspace to hit Syrian military targets?

    Even when they use Russian planes to hide behind they send F-16s because they are faster and have better speed and range...

    The F-35 achieved a 20 to 1 kill ratio in its first Red flag against "legace fighters", that says alot.

    How hard did they make it?

    AWACS aircraft should be able to carry airborne L band sized radars big enough to track stealth aircraft out to enormous ranges.... in actual combat against Russia their OTH radar will detect F-35s at enormous ranges... they could detect F-35s on the Iran Iraq border from Russian territory... and all Russian aircraft not only have IRSTs but also BVR IR guided missiles to deal with stealthy aircraft...

    All rafale, su-35, grippen and typhoon have very good EW. F-15 don't because they never really upgraded its EW.

    But now that Su-57s are entering service those new build F-15s are likely going to get a mix of avionics from F-22 and F-35 to make them effectively the equivalent of Su-35s.

    Detecting a faint f-35 is one thing, that has a RCS of a golfball, take it out before it takes you out is another.

    50 years ago that golfball was probably a glitch and was removed as noise so the pilot would never see it, but today that golfball can be confirmed with an IRST scan to see if that golfball has the IR signature of a fighter aircraft and if it has then it is not eliminated as noise... it is brought to the pilots attention... and the information is transmitted to other nearby platforms and the IADS.

    F-35 may be stealthy and hard to detect but what matters is being able to evade its missiles at mong range. When you close the gap you just launch your own missiles and get into dogfight.

    The point is that the F-35 is really really expensive to buy and to use because they made it super stealthy... except it isn't. To go from basketball to golf ball sized RCS is teh difference between an 80 million dollar aircraft that costs 10K per flight hour to operate and a 120 million dollar aircraft that costs 90K per hour to operate... and the critical thing is that basket balls and golf balls moving at 800km/h at 10km altitude attract your attention... these days you are not going to mistake it for a bird or any insect.

    The sad irony is that the Chinese are smart... they have taken the basic shape and likely made a much cheaper plane that they will likely produce in enormous numbers... considering its size they are probably using RD-93s which is a relatively cheap and affordable engine which will give them 16-18 tons thrust depending on the versions, which will likely make this aircraft their Checkmate.

    It likely wont be as stealthy as the F-35, but that will make it affordable and vastly more practical and in many roles it will actually be a better plane.

    I think it looks better with two engines... and if they have thrust vectoring nozzles it will likely be more manouverable...

    Very long range shots are still unlikely and with modern EW systems there is always a good chance it will go to guns if only because modern stealthy fighters carry bugger all missiles internally and lose all their stealth with external missiles so planes like Su-35s and MiG-35s make a lot of sense still.
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    Post  walle83 Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:40 am

    The F-15EX is No True Competitor for Russia or China

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    Post  walle83 Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:47 am

    Shenyang J-31 Stealth Fighter - Page 5 J-35_c15
    Shenyang J-31 Stealth Fighter - Page 5 J-35_c16
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sat Apr 23, 2022 12:42 pm

    Naval J-31 spotted at naval test/training facility.
    https://twitter.com/benreuter_IMINT/status/1517778727173861376

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