The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

franco wrote:Interesting read on the special ops war occurring in Ukraine.
http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/05/official-ceasefire-conceals-raging.html

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Werewolf wrote:Haven't seen a paycheck, but i am certainly a Putinversteher and Kremlin Bot, because it is not possible to see reality like it is it must be Putin paying people to see things how they are. There are no Coup de etats of the west only Kremlin paid trolls believe that.

Did you forget we're on the Kremlin pay roll!!!...According to the biggest prima donna on the forum, the same guy who threw a temper tantrum and publicly declared he was 'running away from home' not once, but twice! What would we do without him!?!?

He claimed we were all paid agents of Vladimir Putin...He must be right because no one else has ever been to Russia or speaks Russian, before him or after him, he knows better...because he's Alpha and Omega, and he's ever so omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent...the Dagestani soiled diaper!

Al-Romo from themess wrote:"Run, run away from here!"

Marina Akhmedova, 28.05.15, Russkiy Reporter №13 (389)

Prisoner exchange has become a rather unremarkable process in Donbas.
Original in Russian can be accessed at: http://expert.ru/russian_reporter/20...otsyuda-begii/

How does it feel to be taken captive in a war in XXI century?
Photo gallery can be accessed at: http://expert.ru/russian_reporter/20.../media/266008/

As good as dead.

Liliya Rodionova is a member of DPR's committee on prisoners of war. I (the author) came to her with the list of Ukrainian contract servicemen who went missing in August 2014. 'We've never had anyone of them' - this is the answer that was given to their mothers from officers of Cossack unit in Sverdlovsk, executives of Donetsk SBU and other commanders of NAF units. Mothers of missing soldiers claim that their sons were taken to Russian by FSB operatives. Each time I tell them that my searches have not brought any results, but they continue to ask - 'Why can't we find our kids?'

- 'Remenyuk...' - Liliya reads one surname from the list. Remenyuk is KIA. His mother knows that already. But his family just cannot accept that despite DNA analysis that had already confirmed the match. But parents still do not believe it. Every day I speak with a father of the other missed soldier - his son had been working in Moscow for 15 years, came home for holidays, spent barely one day and then was taken by recruiters and mobilized. He used to wear some special boots and father was asked to identify his son by his footwear, but father refused. Then he was told - 'If you don't want to take this one, then take the other one'. I also have a story about mother that did not accept 3 consequent DNA tests just because she knows her son and she knows that he did not have a particular tooth. She says - 'I know my son, he is an adult man, he cannot have this tooth, it couldn't grow back. I won't take the corpse!'. And the answer is - 'What do you mean you won't take it? DNA test showed the match, take it!'

- Do you want to say that results of these DNA tests are fabricated?

- I do not know, I cannot judge what is going on over there. But I saw many times how people did not believe in death of their children if DNA test showed the match. Scammers has humbugged over 60 000 of UAH from Remenyuk's mother promising to bring him to home. They began with telltales that he and his comrades were captured by Russian soldiers. That list included 40 soldiers: Remenyuk, Karpov, Chizh, etc. Mothers claimed that they are imprisoned in Lefortovo - FSB prison in Russia. 'Excuse me' - I say, - 'but who are your sons?' - 'A mechanic, a teacher, a driver?' Who needs them captured and imprisoned by FSB? No one! These guys are not there. There are few solitary cases when wounded soldiers were brought to hospital in Rostov from Illovaisk kettle. But Donetsk is in 90 km from there plus shellings. I know cases when we moved POW's family out from Ukraine and sent them to Russia so their son couldn't be send to war again because he did not want it. All stories that they are forcibly kept in Russia are pure nonsece. But then someone cooked up a story that they are sold to slavery in Chechnya. As if all mediums, fortunetellers and paranormalists conspired to tell families that their boys are forced to work in some brickyard near water. Next they changed it to illegal coal mines in Donetsk - a total lie, even local mines do not have any work, someone even told that POWs are somewhere near Arctic ocean, forced to cut ice into pieces for unclear reasons. Then they said that they were shipped to Crimea to work on vineyards, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. General Ruban have these soldiers in his lists. All MIAs are stated to be in captivity.

- Why so?

- I do not know.

- Soldiers who missed in action are presumed to be dead?

- That is correct with 90% probability. There places where, as we think, we might find gravesites and we continue our search for them. Recently we were picking up mortal remains and in Lugansk one forensic expert told me that during battles near Khryashevatoe he was visited by UA army representatives and was asked to give them some gasoline, they needed it to burn the corpses. He refused saying that burned remains cannot be identified by DNA test. It appeared that these visitors were scared of ptomaine poisoning but expert told them to bury the corpses. Buried remains can be identified even after 70 years, but burned remains are always lost.

- Relatives of missed soldiers cannot understand that when tank's ammo rack detonates it rips tank to pieces. Metal goes red hot, melts and flows like a resin. No corpse can remain intact after that, it burns and compresses into a small piece, as big as a fist, it is impossible to get any DNA from it. We can only attempt to identify them by tank's individual number, there is no other way. One woman was demanding to return her son - 'Where is he?! He is not in prisoner list, he is not in KIA list, where is he?!' Where is he, she asked. Did you hear about battles near Starobeshevo? Where people were shred into pieces and corpses were hanging from ETL and trees? Recently we were in Uglegorsk, dug out some fragments, called to guys from UA side to pick them up but they were stopped and shocked by artillery shelling. Next morning they have found out that many fragments of bodies were eaten by stray dogs and foxes. Moreover, we often see cases when UA forces leave their wounded and dead behind.

- Why do they do it?

- In Novogrigoryevsk several KIAs were buried in the trenches. Later officers came there with some woman with a codename "Changar". It appeared that they took what she recognized and left behind everything unrecognizable and shredded corpses as well. No one needed to care about lost arms, legs and burned remains.

- Why did you take those remains?

- To send them to Ukraine.

- So you take a rotten flesh, put it in a car and send?

- Of course. In Chernukhino people found skull fragments near their destroyed homes, We put them in a bag and send to Ukraine.

Ask military commissariats.

- Oleg Chizh. We've been contacting with his sister for a long time. Her brother was her last relative she had. She was the first to start asking about him, we responded and later one prisoner sad that he is Oleg Chizh. During the transition we it was revealed that he lied about his identity. He said that he hoped to get home as fast as possible and that is why he took other's name. This prisoner lied to us and we were sure that Oleg Chizh is alive. We've passed all stages of the search: Lefortovo, Chechnya, etc. Later we've recieved 100% match of DNA test.

- DNA was taken from his remains?

- Yes. He was killed either in Saur-Mogila o in Stepanovka. We found both his tag and a pectoral cross. But Ukrainian officials have been assuring his sister that Oleg is alive for a long time, that he is in captivity somewhere. I think this is because they were trying to cover the losses. Also we dealt with a prisoner Nikolai Surmenko from Kherson, we'v been contacting with his mother for a long time. His birth was influenced by Chernobyl disaster, he is a chronically ailing person who suffers from diabetes and whose height is barely 150 sm.

- Why did he go to war with such health problems?

- They didn't ask for his opinion. We saw conscripts who didn't have some fingers, conscripts who suffered heart attacks. We work in tight cooperation with Ukrainian NGO 'Narodnaya Pamyat' (People's memory). Surmenko's mother was very much worrying for her son, but mostly she feared that he would be send to war again. All her village was ridiculing her, saying that she was keeping him in a hideout somewhere but when he returned they collected 5 000 UAH for medical treatment. I had a case where a woman from some backward village in Western Ukraine, where mobile cell phones are the rare sight, found out Ruban's lists of POWs. In those lists her son was marked by some weird and unknown tag - 200th (KIA) and she thought that this is the number of released prisoners. Someone gave her my telephone number and she immediately began to plead:

- 'Please, give me my son back!'
- 'How can we release him?'
- 'He has a birthday next day, 19 years.'
- 'We do not have him.'
- 'How so? I see him in Ruban's lists!'

- She just could not understand that her son is not alive anymore. I always tell them - 'Ask military commissariats about their fate. They and only they took your sons. They are responsible for them, they are obliged to send requests.' But Ukrainian mothers are treated like cattle over there. Only one, ONE UA commander who was in Illovaisk was calling to me asking about his soldiers - 'Where are my guys? Where are this one?' He did not demand to bring them back, he just asked about their fate. That was the only UA commander who was interested in fates of his soldiers. THE ONLY ONE!

To be continued... about 2200 words

Республиканская Гвардия ДНР wrote:Special Report. Shirokino - line of contact

Новости ЛНР и ДНР wrote:BMP in Lugansk! Colon BMP Army LC! Newbies BMP

par far wrote:

franco wrote:Interesting read on the special ops war occurring in Ukraine.
http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/05/official-ceasefire-conceals-raging.html

Very good read, very nice details in the article.  The question I have know is, how good are a Novorossiya speical ops?

Monarchist wrote:

flamming_python wrote:You people are completely insane

The majority of the economical elite of Russia (state company CEOs, oligarchs, governers/republic heads, top economic officials, etc...) are ethnic Russians.

Yeah sure there are plenty of minorities too; Alekperov, Vekselberg, Abramovich, Ilyumzhinov, Gref, Naibullina, Usmanov, Friedman, Agalarov, Rotenberg, Kerimov, Shaimiev, Pogosyan, Minnikhanov, Aven, Milner, Ismailov, Khan, Yakobshvilli, Dürr, Akhmedov, Makhmudov, Magomedov, Nisanov, Iliev, Karapetyan, Baysarov, Chagaev, etc... (not counting Ukrainians or Belarussians here, mind)

But they are more than outnumbered by Russians - Kiriyenko, Yakunin, Luzhkov/Baturina, Sechin, Chubais, Kudrin, Volozh, Grishin, Sobyanin, Savelyev, Potanin, Doronin, Prokhorov, Bogdanov, Deripaska, Filatov, Fedun, Matvienko, Chemezov, Timchenko, Mikhelson, Frolov, Abramov, Mikheev, Melnichenko, Narishkin, Lisin, Mordashov, Khristenko, Dmitriev, Fyodorov, Kogogin, Muravyov, Galitsky, Guryev, Isaikin, Komarov, Trotsenko, Obnosov, Plastinin, Rakhmanov, Rybolovlev, etc...
Albeit a great many of these ethnic Russians are actually from ex-Soviet republics.

Russia is a very multi-ethnic country; and to boot - many of its current oligarchs and elite were actually from not from Russia, but other Soviet republics who came to Russia in the 90s to make their fortunes and power as their own countries were dirt-poor and had no prospects; thus among the elite you'll find even more diversity than you'd expect otherwise.

That goes for the Jews too, not all of them are actually from Russia either but all of them are counted as Jews, therefore making it appear that there are more Russian Jews in the Russian elite than there actually are.
Friedman, Khan & Vekselberg are all from the Ukraine, Yakobshvilli is from Georgia, Ismailov & Nisanov are from Azerbaijan and so on.

Yes, I'm insane and most likely I will be labeled a racist, nazi or whatever suits people.
50% of russian oligarchs are jewish yet the make up 0,3 % of the population in Russia today. http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-Features/At-Putins-side-an-army-of-Jewish-billionaires
"have made much of the fact that of the seven oligarchs who controlled 50% of Russia's economy during the 1990s, six were Jewish: Berezovsky, Vladimir Guzinsky, Alexander Smolensky, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Mikhail Friedman and Valery Malkin."

"Like most Russian oligarchs, Vekselberg is of Jewish origin - he has a Jewish father, though he doesn't regard himself as Jewish."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/02/russia.lukeharding1

Chubais is not russian and a russophobe, I'm not going to bother posting his comments on Dostoevsky and russians in general.
Russia is a country where russians make up over 80% of the population, they are the absolute majority, the second highest ethnicity are tatars that make up 3,7% of the population! So about Russia being multi ethnic yes of course because it supresses russians in their own homeland while ethnic russians in bordering countries are being treated as third class citizens. But also inside Russia.
Just have a look at how "well" represented russians are being in the Tatarstan government.

50% of russian oligarchs are jewish yet the make up 0,3 % of the population in Russia today. http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-Features/At-Putins-side-an-army-of-Jewish-billionaires

"have made much of the fact that of the seven oligarchs who controlled 50% of Russia's economy during the 1990s, six were Jewish: Berezovsky, Vladimir Guzinsky, Alexander Smolensky, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Mikhail Friedman and Valery Malkin."

"Like most Russian oligarchs, Vekselberg is of Jewish origin - he has a Jewish father, though he doesn't regard himself as Jewish."

Chubais is not russian and a russophobe, I'm not going to bother posting his comments on Dostoevsky and russians in general.

Russia is a country where russians make up over 80% of the population, they are the absolute majority, the second highest ethnicity are tatars that make up 3,7% of the population! So about Russia being multi ethnic yes of course because it supresses russians in their own homeland while ethnic russians in bordering countries are being treated as third class citizens. But also inside Russia.

Just have a look at how "well" represented russians are being in the Tatarstan government.

PapaDragon wrote:Here is something to cheer everyone up a little. Weekly collection of humor from FortRuss (I love these guys )

http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/05/russias-week-in-humor-for-may-29-2015.html

Flagship Victory wrote:At this point,  it is clear that Ukraine plans to invade Transnistria. Keep an eye out for US movement. If US troops including PAC-3 air defense deploys to Odessa, then such an invasion would be imminent. The US would bet on Russia not interfering because Russia would not attack US air defense teams in Odessa.

Monarchist wrote:

flamming_python wrote:You people are completely insane

The majority of the economical elite of Russia (state company CEOs, oligarchs, governers/republic heads, top economic officials, etc...) are ethnic Russians.

Yeah sure there are plenty of minorities too; Alekperov, Vekselberg, Abramovich, Ilyumzhinov, Gref, Naibullina, Usmanov, Friedman, Agalarov, Rotenberg, Kerimov, Shaimiev, Pogosyan, Minnikhanov, Aven, Milner, Ismailov, Khan, Yakobshvilli, Dürr, Akhmedov, Makhmudov, Magomedov, Nisanov, Iliev, Karapetyan, Baysarov, Chagaev, etc... (not counting Ukrainians or Belarussians here, mind)

But they are more than outnumbered by Russians - Kiriyenko, Yakunin, Luzhkov/Baturina, Sechin, Chubais, Kudrin, Volozh, Grishin, Sobyanin, Savelyev, Potanin, Doronin, Prokhorov, Bogdanov, Deripaska, Filatov, Fedun, Matvienko, Chemezov, Timchenko, Mikhelson, Frolov, Abramov, Mikheev, Melnichenko, Narishkin, Lisin, Mordashov, Khristenko, Dmitriev, Fyodorov, Kogogin, Muravyov, Galitsky, Guryev, Isaikin, Komarov, Trotsenko, Obnosov, Plastinin, Rakhmanov, Rybolovlev, etc...
Albeit a great many of these ethnic Russians are actually from ex-Soviet republics.

Russia is a very multi-ethnic country; and to boot - many of its current oligarchs and elite were actually from not from Russia, but other Soviet republics who came to Russia in the 90s to make their fortunes and power as their own countries were dirt-poor and had no prospects; thus among the elite you'll find even more diversity than you'd expect otherwise.

That goes for the Jews too, not all of them are actually from Russia either but all of them are counted as Jews, therefore making it appear that there are more Russian Jews in the Russian elite than there actually are.
Friedman, Khan & Vekselberg are all from the Ukraine, Yakobshvilli is from Georgia, Ismailov & Nisanov are from Azerbaijan and so on.

Yes, I'm insane and most likely I will be labeled a racist, nazi or whatever suits people.
50% of russian oligarchs are jewish yet the make up 0,3 % of the population in Russia today. http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-Features/At-Putins-side-an-army-of-Jewish-billionaires
"have made much of the fact that of the seven oligarchs who controlled 50% of Russia's economy during the 1990s, six were Jewish: Berezovsky, Vladimir Guzinsky, Alexander Smolensky, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Mikhail Friedman and Valery Malkin."

"Like most Russian oligarchs, Vekselberg is of Jewish origin - he has a Jewish father, though he doesn't regard himself as Jewish."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/02/russia.lukeharding1


Chubais is not russian and a russophobe, I'm not going to bother posting his comments on Dostoevsky and russians in general.
Russia is a country where russians make up over 80% of the population, they are the absolute majority, the second highest ethnicity are tatars that make up 3,7% of the population! So about Russia being multi ethnic yes of course because it supresses russians in their own homeland while ethnic russians in bordering countries are being treated as third class citizens. But also inside Russia.
Just have a look at how "well" represented russians are being in the Tatarstan government.

2SPOOKY4U wrote:

whir wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:At this point,  it is clear that Ukraine plans to invade Transnistria. Keep an eye out for US movement. If US troops including PAC-3 air defense deploys to Odessa, then such an invasion would be imminent. The US would bet on Russia not interfering because Russia would not attack US air defense teams in Odessa.

A meat shield, really? If Ukraine decides to repeat the 2008 scenario they're for a thought ride.

UAF have been touring S-300 units around Odessa for quite some time, they don't need more AD assets, they just need to be able to operate what they have even if it's old.

Zivo wrote:Good god man, that's horrible.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Zivo wrote:Good god man, that's horrible.

So why did you quote it?

The Donbass people made a mistake of aligning themselves with Russia, since Russia is so hated in the West and Russia is too weak to help them in any way.

People of Donbass are in every aspect Russians. They have nothing to do with Ukrainians from Galicia since centuries - eastern and southeastern Ukraine are former Crimean Tatar territories colonized by Russian settlers in 18th century while Western Ukraine was a part of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth first and then a part of Austria and was linguistically distinct from the rest of East Slavs since 15-16th century.

You say that Russia is not weak, but yet you say that Russia cannot help Donbass people due to outside pressure (diplomatic consequences). This makes Russia weak imo.

The way I see it this war will not end in years. It will be a low level war with the Kiev junta shelling Novorossiya and Novorossiya - due to diplomatic reasons - not being able to counter. The Kiev junta will make occasional pushes (that will likely be repelled by the NAF) but the NAF will not be allowed to defeat Kiev militarily because the diplomatic costs would be too great for Russia.

So we are stuck here with Kiev shelling Novorossiyans cities and villages daily. This will carry on for years until the whole region is ruined and depopulated. Who would want to live there anyway?

There are two clans inside the Kremlin. The nationalists/patriots and the pro-Western oligarchs. Putin is somewhere in the middle. The nationalists would like to help and free Novorossiya, but the pro-Western/oligarchic clan is preventing this because they would lose their money and property in the West. So far Russia has not been able to decisively back Novorossiya because of this.

BTW, I have many times wondered why the ethnic Russians are minority in the economic elite of Russia? It seems that most of them are Jews, Azeris, Armenians, Tatars or some other ethnic minotiries.

Not that it really matters in any case; I suppose to you I'd be a traitor and a Jew but clearly you have a lot to learn about Russia and just what it is that gives this country its resilience and unity.

The US thinks that Russia would not go to war with the US and therefore Ukraine would be able to invade Transnistria without having to fight Russian forces other than the 1,000 or so Russian troops in Transnistria.

Podrobnosti via Google Translate wrote:Саакашвили анонсировал масштабные чистки в Одесской области
Saakashvili announced a massive purge in the Odessa region
May 30, 2015 17:42 Author: Igor Shevchuk,

The governor of the Odessa oblastiMihail Saakashvili promises complete renewal of power in the region by attracting young people to open competitions for all positions.

"I ask the residents of Odessa region to give me a chance to start conversion here. The first thing that they see the residents of Odessa, is that the new people in power. And recruit new people to be honest. We collect the local people ... Second, we begin to tightly control how the budget is spent. There's many holes and they need to patch, "- Saakashvili said in Odessa.

He added that the majority of high-ranking officials of Odessa region nor retained their posts.

Also, Saakashvili promised to fight corruption, especially at customs. "I have the mandate of the president on this," - he said.

In addition, according to Saakashvili, he familiarized himself with the situation in the province of Odessa region, and believes that the first priority for the regions is a repair of roads.

"There's a terrible road. I have traveled on these roads. The roads there are bad because for decades there sneaked money on these roads. The infrastructure there is poor. And of course, decades of devastation can not be overcome in the past month - two. But I think that soon people will feel difference ", - said the head of State Administration.

Regarding the fight against separatist sentiment in the region, Saakashvili said that the primary task - is the attention to people. "When people feel that the state takes care of them, these feelings go away by themselves," - he said.

As reported, Poroshenko submitted Saakashvili Odessa in 4 languages ​​. After this, Poroshenko gave Saakashvili a year to change everything in Odessa. Continue reading.

New York Times wrote:Ukrainian Migrants Fleeing Conflict Get a Cool Reception in Europe
By RICK LYMANMAY 30, 2015

WARSAW — Volodymyr Zelenyuk knew it was time to bolt when the pro-Russian separatists came to the carwash he owned in the eastern Ukrainian coal town of Antratsyt and demanded his help making and repairing weapons.

“Either you help them, or you die,” Mr. Zelenyuk, 28, said.

So he grabbed his wife, their passports, two backpacks and a credit card and fled across the nearby border into Russia, beginning a long trek to Crimea, Kiev and, finally, four months ago, to the Polish border where they begged for asylum.

“I don’t know what I am going to do if I am refused,” he said. “But I can’t be too optimistic.”

Since the conflict that erupted early last year in Ukraine, the flow of immigrants and asylum seekers from there into Poland and other European nations has steadily increased. But the countries have been wary about welcoming them too warmly.

Poland, Germany, Italy and other favored destinations for Ukrainian asylum-seekers have overwhelmingly rejected their applications or delayed processing them. The nations, which are loath to open their borders to what could be yet another torrent of job-hungry immigrants, point to vast stretches of western Ukraine that the separatist conflict has not yet touched. Continue reading.

BBC wrote:Ukraine crisis: The town where war still rages on - BBC News

Tatzhit Mihailovich wrote:Odessa: Nationalists attack office of "Kador" construction firm, fight security while police look on

The Guardian wrote:Russian aircraft head off US warship in Black Sea, news agency says
Reuters in Moscow Saturday 30 May 2015 17.41 BST

According to Russia’s state news agency a US destroyer was moving along the edge of territorial waters in yet another encounter with western militaries

Russian military aircraft were scrambled to head off a US warship that was acting “aggressively” in the Black Sea, the state news agency RIA reported on Saturday, citing an anonymous source in Russia’s armed forces in Crimea.

The source was quoted as saying that the US destroyer Ross was moving along the edge of Russia’s territorial waters and heading in their direction.

“The crew of the ship acted provocatively and aggressively, which concerned the operators of monitoring stations and ships of the Black Sea Fleet,” RIA quoted the source as saying.

“Su-24 attack aircraft demonstrated to the American crew readiness to harshly prevent a violation of the frontier and to defend the interests of the country.”

Russia’s Defence Ministry was not immediately available to comment on the report. Continue reading.

Flagship Victory wrote:

whir wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:At this point,  it is clear that Ukraine plans to invade Transnistria. Keep an eye out for US movement. If US troops including PAC-3 air defense deploys to Odessa, then such an invasion would be imminent. The US would bet on Russia not interfering because Russia would not attack US air defense teams in Odessa.

A meat shield, really? If Ukraine decides to repeat the 2008 scenario they're for a thought ride.

UAF have been touring S-300 units around Odessa for quite some time, they don't need more AD assets, they just need to be able to operate what they have even if it's old.

US troops are already deployed in Ukraine. If US air defense batteries deploy to Odessa, then they can deter Russian jets based in Sevastopol from launching air strikes on Ukrainian troops in Odessa. The US thinking is that, Russia would not get involved if Ukraine invades Transnistria because by doing so Russian jets would have to target US PAC-3 batteries in Odessa and that would mean a shooting war between Russia and the US. The US thinks that Russia would not go to war with the US and therefore Ukraine would be able to invade Transnistria without having to fight Russian forces other than the 1,000 or so Russian troops in Transnistria.

Regular wrote:
Sheesh both sides are so full of shit. It seems there is bigger war in PR not in the fields

Neutrality wrote:http://lenta.ru/news/2015/05/31/soldiers/

DNR command reports that black skinned mercenaries have been spotted in parts controlled by Kiev regime. There's also reports of mercenaries from USA, Poland, Georgia and apparently a regiment of Israeli soldiers with UCAVs. I have doubts about that last one though. If this is true then we're talking about some serious stuff here. These countries providing soldiers of fortune have no idea what they are getting into. They still think this war is going to be a walk in the park like fighting farmers in Iraq and Afghanistan.