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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Berkut
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    Post  Berkut Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:24 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:So the PAK-FA program looks like it is picking up the pace very soon.

    Indeed. They had to do a lot of work after the T-50-1 MAKS structural mess and upgrade done on -0,-1,-2,-4,-5 frames but now they are truly getting over the hump i think and picking up the pace. Assuming T-50-7 won't give any more nasty surprises.

    Mack8, in my mind, there is seems to be two "phase 2" lines. One of which are "phase 2" structural improvements and other frame modifications (like covered up nacelles, but we will know with 6-2). The "second" "phase 2" is then building upon phase 2 frame with Izd.30 engines, improved T/R's for radar and so on. That is post 2020 tho. We also know for sure about composites that has been referred to as "phase 2", i am not sure if that is longer down the road or already been fitted to -7, 6-2 and on.

    To answer your question directly; 6-2 is more like phase 1.5. It won't have Izd.30 of course but it will be structurally redone. A bit back he also said that T-50-9 will be the first frame with "new engines", but i will be shocked if that means Izd.30 considering it is due to fly early next year, about same time when Izd.30 would start ground testing. Probably it is going to be fitted with whatever 710 is testing.
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    Post  mack8 Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:36 pm

    Thank you for the update Berkut.
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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  George1 Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:39 pm

    T-50 PAK FA 5th Generation Jet Fighter’s Main Secret Revealed

    Despite a number of technical details and specs about the Russian Sukhoi PAK FA (also known as the T-50) fighter jet being known to the general public, the main mystery surrounding the newest aircraft still remains to be unraveled.

    It is with respect to what weapons the stealth fighter will carry.

    In an exclusive interview with the Russian TV channel Zvezda, Radik Bariev, head of the Chkalov Flight-Test Center of the Defense Ministry, spilled the beans on the PAK FA’s weaponry.

    While the regular Su-35 jet fighter has 12 mounting locations for bombs and missiles, the body of the T-50 – at first sight – has none.

    "It does have weapons. Let people dream a bit and use their fantasy. It also has locations for mounting weapons. It has everything it needs, and even more," Bariev told Zvezda.

    According to the Russian military, the weaponry is one of the most outstanding features of the newest aircraft, and thus it is still kept a secret.

    The single-seat, twin-engine jet fighter — the first operational aircraft in Russian service to use stealth technology — is designed to be used to achieve air superiority and assist in ground attacks.

    Besides its ability to fly at speeds well above Mach 2, the T-50 boasts other, even more important, features such as invisibility to radar, powerful weapons and high maneuverability.

    The use of composite materials, innovative technologies, advanced avionics and engines ensure the T-50’s extremely low level of radar, optical and infrared visibility.

    The T-50 also carries the upgraded BINS-SP2M inertial navigation system, that autonomously processes navigation and flight information, determines position and motion parameters in the absence of satellite navigation, and can integrate with GLONASS, Russia’s space-based satellite navigation system.

    In December 2014, Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation announced that production of the fighter was ready to begin in 2016. Fifty-five PAK FA jets will be delivered to the Russian Air Force by 2020.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150807/1025499103.html#ixzz3i8VkAuvy
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    Post  jhelb Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:15 pm

    New Anti Radar Missile For The T 50  Х-58УШК


    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 12 19092_10



    http://promvest.info/ru/novosti-vpk/sozdana-novaya-protivoradiolokatsionnaya-raketa-dlya-istrebitelya-t-50/
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    Post  Viktor Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:16 pm

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 12 6SgsOY0
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    Post  jhelb Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:14 pm

    Viktor, I wanted to upvote your above post a 100 times, unfortunately I can't.
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    Post  Book. Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:42 pm

    @Viktor

    How the R27 + Morfy?
    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:50 pm

    K-77M hmmm. any prototypes or mock ups so far ?

    Gotta feeling that it'll remain as concept and Russian will proceed with already existing R-77's.
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    Post  Mike E Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:51 pm

    Those two will be most certainly available, just not part of the info-graphic for whatever reason. 


    K-77M will have greater range than 110 km, that is the number for the 77-1. 

    @flanker

    It was originally designed for 1.44 IIRC. Even tested on a few different prototype aircraft (including the Su-47), so it has probably finished development already.
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    Post  Mike E Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:19 am

    Berkut wrote:To answer your question directly; 6-2 is more like phase 1.5. It won't have Izd.30 of course but it will be structurally redone. A bit back he also said that T-50-9 will be the first frame with "new engines", but i will be shocked if that means Izd.30 considering it is due to fly early next year, about same time when Izd.30 would start ground testing. Probably it is going to be fitted with whatever 710 is testing.
    Izd.30 entered full-scale ground testing *this year* (according to other forums), so a T-50 outfitted with them for testing isn't very unrealistic short term (if this is the case).
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    Post  Guest Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:15 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:K-77M hmmm. any prototypes or mock ups so far ?

    Gotta feeling that it'll remain as concept and Russian will proceed with already existing R-77's.
    Good chance there are prototypes out there. Developing, testing and keeping new aerial weaponry secret at the same time is relatively easy compared to other new products like new aircraft or ships or vehicles. The PAK-FA or the T-14 were very hard to keep hidden for example. While some aerial weapons like the Have Dash II program (undertaken by the US to develop a stealthy AAM for the ATF program) appear to have been tested, but nothing has been declassified and information about the project is scarce.

    We may not see the K-77M for a while though, like not until the PAK-FA matures into a fully capable weapons systems.
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    Post  Mike E Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:54 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Stealthflanker wrote:K-77M hmmm. any prototypes or mock ups so far ?

    Gotta feeling that it'll remain as concept and Russian will proceed with already existing R-77's.

    We may not see the K-77M for a while though, like not until the PAK-FA matures into a fully capable weapons systems.
    As I've mentioned, it has already passed development... The AESA setup is finalized, longer range motors have already been used on older K-77's, and the new control surfaces were tested during the Su-47 era. There is no reason for it to take a while.

    If anything, the possible ramjet model (if not scrapped already) is what will be taking its time.
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    Post  Berkut Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:57 pm

    Mike E wrote:Izd.30 entered full-scale ground testing *this year* (according to other forums), so a T-50 outfitted with them for testing isn't very unrealistic short term (if this is the case).

    1; Prototype(s) of Izd.30 were to be ground tested before year end. They are not actually finished yet as far as we know.
    2; No one in their right mind would put in a completely new engine for flight testing that has barely been tested on ground.
    3; It has been confirmed it will be Izd.129 and not Izd.30 although it seems they won't be able to get them ready in time. (ie likely to be fitted with Izd.117 to start with atleast)

    T-50-1 after another round of structural modifications, first time this was done was between August 2011 and September 2012. 7/8;

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 12 0_ae91f_f8ded308_orig

    710, 8/8;

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 12 0_ae8d8_d3ac9a3_orig
    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 12 0_ae8e0_e6a52d53_orig

    Izd.180 (K-77M) was to be tested in Akhtubinsk this or last year, along with 760 and 810. Many of the planned things to be tested in last and this year didn't actually happen, so it wouldn't be shocking if 180 didnt happen either.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:13 pm


    ''Unique Capabilities of PAK FA Pilot’s Gear Unveiled''

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20150809/1025554827.html
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:13 pm

    I hate to sound persistent, but do you have a source for the engine situation? I'm going to go find out where I saw that it finished ground testing. 

    I agree with 2, *but if it has actually finished ground testing*. 

    K-77M design mockups have been shown time and time again, along with the guidance system it uses. It's possible that it isn't ready, but I highly doubt it.
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    Post  Pinto Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:16 pm

    when will deal be signed with India ?
    Berkut
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    Post  Berkut Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:34 pm

    Mike E wrote:I hate to sound persistent, but do you have a source for the engine situation? I'm going to go find out where I saw that it finished ground testing. 

    I agree with 2, *but if it has actually finished ground testing*. 

    K-77M design mockups have been shown time and time again, along with the guidance system it uses. It's possible that it isn't ready, but I highly doubt it.

    They haven't started the ground testing of Izd.30, yet alone finished it.

    Source 1 from February 2015; First test article of Izd.30 to be finished in 2016, flight testing on a "flight laboratory" (ie likely not to be first fitted to T-50) in 2017; http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150219/1048529307.html

    Source 2 from June 2015; First two Izd.30's demonstrators to be finished in 2015. http://russian.rt.com/article/97920

    Source 3, Izd.129 for -9/-10 but seems to be canceled now (ie engines not ready in time); http://paralay.iboards.ru/viewtopic.php?p=486126#p486126

    I will repeat for the last time. -9/-10 will likely not be fitted with izd.129 yet alone izd.30 and we probably wont see izd.30 on T-50 til 2018.
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:49 pm

    Berkut wrote:
    Mike E wrote:I hate to sound persistent, but do you have a source for the engine situation? I'm going to go find out where I saw that it finished ground testing. 

    I agree with 2, *but if it has actually finished ground testing*. 

    K-77M design mockups have been shown time and time again, along with the guidance system it uses. It's possible that it isn't ready, but I highly doubt it.

    They haven't started the ground testing of Izd.30, yet alone finished it.

    Source 1 from February 2015; First test article of Izd.30 to be finished in 2016, flight testing on a "flight laboratory" (ie likely not to be first fitted to T-50) in 2017; http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150219/1048529307.html

    Source 2 from June 2015; First two Izd.30's demonstrators to be finished in 2015. http://russian.rt.com/article/97920

    Source 3, Izd.129 for -9/-10 but seems to be canceled now (ie engines not ready in time); http://paralay.iboards.ru/viewtopic.php?p=486126#p486126

    I will repeat for the last time. -9/-10 will likely not be fitted with izd.129 yet alone izd.30 and we probably wont see izd.30 on T-50 til 2018.
    Back in February a contradicting statement, from the CEO of UAC, suggested it was *undergoing* rig testing now. As far as I can tell, it will be ready to be fitted on T-50 in early 2017, and tested at a later date.

    Yet the sources you link say otherwise. 

    This is all bollocks.

     - Not saying you aren't right...but different people, reports, and sources all saying a different thing is odd.
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    Post  Berkut Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:41 pm

    Link to the statement you keep referring to. I have linked to every single source, you have yet to link to a single one.

    And first and second links are statements from the same guy, CEO of ODK. In February he said they will finish the first one in 2016 and 4 months later he said they will finish the first two in 2015. Those are not contradicting statements, just seems like they managed to speed up things a bit, or atleast hope to.

    The only contradiction is coming from your claim that they are already ground testing Izd.30 and in fact done with ground testing. Ground testing takes years, so i am seriously questioning your logic considering a 2 month old statement says not a single izd.30 is ready yet, yet alone finished testing. Til you start provide sources you are posting a bunch of wrong hot air.

    EDIT; Actually day before the statement to RIA's article he said the first the first Izd.30 will be made in 2015; http://lenta.ru/articles/2015/02/18/masalov/ So RIA either misquoted or had a typo, unlikely he changed his mind to 2016 day after lenta's interview.

    More pics;

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 12 0_aeada_dbe57dce_orig
    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 12 0_aeadb_f0978466_orig
    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 12 0_aeadc_6a367960_orig
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    Post  mutantsushi Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:10 am

    If the 2nd stage frame is ready, but engine is not, possibly they might modify the 1st stage 117 engine to "fit",
    probably adjusting accessory item locations, outputs, connections, etc. to fit.
    I believe Izd. 30 is supposed to be significantly lighter than 117, which can't be adjusted for but they could still flight test other new features...?
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    Post  Mike E Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:10 am

    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aero-india-upgraded-t-50-pak-fa-powerplant-in-rig-409258/

    "The Izdeliye 30 engine for Russia’s T-50 fighter is undergoing rig testing, and will enter flight trials in 2017."

    A few different sources report a few different things, but generally it sounds like this ^. 

    Either it is a mistake, or misunderstanding, as you said.
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:23 am

    Some stunning aerobatics that prove the excellent maneuverability of the PAK-FA. Also put the link in the video thread.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64w68L2Swzo
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    Post  mack8 Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:25 am

    Thanks for the images and input Berkut. So is 051 receiving only now the fuselage structural mods, or is it re-reinforced?
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    Post  Berkut Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:56 am

    Mike E wrote:http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aero-india-upgraded-t-50-pak-fa-powerplant-in-rig-409258/

    "The Izdeliye 30 engine for Russia’s T-50 fighter is undergoing rig testing, and will enter flight trials in 2017."

    A few different sources report a few different things, but generally it sounds like this ^.

    Either it is a mistake, or misunderstanding, as you said.

    Thanks for the source. Seeing as this statement was made online just 1 and 2 days after the pretty clear statements of the ODK CEO i would say that article is flat out wrong, and the fact that no Izd.30 has yet been made is reinforced by the June comments. Now, if that article said that components of Izd.30 were being rig test, that would be true.

    mack8 wrote:Thanks for the images and input Berkut. So is 051 receiving only now the fuselage structural mods, or is it re-reinforced?

    I already expanded on that tbh. Razz

    T-50-1 after another round of structural modifications, first time this was done was between August 2011 and September 2012.

    So yes, for whatever reason T-50-1 got re-reinforced and the older repair job replaced.
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    Post  Mike E Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:27 am

    Thanks for clearing things up +1

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