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    IRAN: Latest and Breaking News

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:20 am

    Are you saying your uncle was Usrael spy in Iran? I guess it is not difficult to put operatives in Iran or other country. But objectively, all we can say with certainty right now, about this incident :

    ( 1 )  Those that benefit by a short war with Iran, blame it all on the bad cop Trump and bring in good cop Biden, to reap the rewards and start a " new chapter", in relations. Are Usrael and Yanks.

    ( 2 )  The operatives had access to his car at some point , to determine it was not armoured. Or had access to this information. Simply bouncing a car, can tell you this, by how springs bounce back.

    ( 3 )  The operatives did not know the destination of vehicle. Did not attack on outward journey.

    ( 4)  They knew return route, well in advance. To set trap.

    This indicates that, since attack not done on outward journey, that they did not get info from personal source near him. But given attack on inward leg of journey, that they knew return route. Now Absard, the place he was killed, has many roads in and out. No way of predicting what road to set trap in. Even if they knew second by second, what road, he was on. By observation or GPS tracker attached to vehicle. Therefore they had more than one team on more than one Road.

    Also, reason for not attacking near his residence , could be that he lived in secure urban area. They could not make quick getaway. But a Rural area, with many roads, in and out, would give them this chance. Quickly drive away. But if police arrived quickly on the crime scene, they could be hiding in or around Absard, in fox holes.


    Last edited by nomadski on Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:38 am; edited 2 times in total
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:26 am

    Publicly expose to whom? The West or the East. The former won't believe the latter doesn't matter.

    The rest of the world is watching, making public this information is in Irans interests and against Israels interests... especially every time they claim to be a victim because someone in their country dies because of an explosion or shooting.

    Western audience sometimes do not trust their government on domestic matters. But on matter related to Asia, Africa they have tremendous faith in whatever their sinister government tells them.

    This forum is all about a western audience that no longer trusts the major western news media giants...

    Propaganda is asymmetrical, it's only available to the rich.

    Propaganda is repetition and who shouts the loudest, but if you have no voice then you are never heard... when Israel bleats at being the victim because of this or that action remind them they murder with bombs and guns too...

    @garry expose what? Do you think the world gives two shits? They don’t.

    The west and Israel wants the world to not care, are you so easily manipulated?

    Their top nuke scientist travelling with what looks like 1 guard. Sorry but that’s what the secretary in his office should have had. He required a team, that’s not 20/20 vision - that’s plain old incompetence. You’re speaking from your bottom mate.

    Yes, you are right... it is Irans fault because they didn't surround every scientist they have with 50 armed guards.... just like 11/9 was Americas fault... where was the air defence protecting the Twin Towers or the Pentagon... those civilian planes should have been shot down straight away... why are the Americans such pathetic losers for not expecting this... they listen to every conversation on the planet how could they possibly have missed this.... they should be ahead of the game on everything but they are clearly not.

    The obvious solution is that if Israel with US support is murdering Iranians then Iran needs to start murdering Israelis and Americans... or they need to take away the reasons for the murders... they need to buy 50 nuclear weapons from North Korea or the Ukraine....

    But of course the main problem is this religious Fatwa against Nuclear detterent. In my view a politicised factional decision, running against Iranian national interests. This Fatwa must be retracted or ignored by Iranian scientists and military men. Or new leadership be appointed, that will endorse detterent, at least after they are built. No other way for peace.

    The punishment for the attack should be a new goal to create and produce nuclear weapons in Iran... it is the only way for the country to be safe...

    The fact he was named dropped a few months ago by the israelis should have been ample warning to ramp up his security. Just incredible this has happened given the amount of assassinations that have taken place of the past number of years.
    He was their head guy ffs.

    Iran should start name dropping Israeli names...

    Why would anyone waste time on peace deals when he can have victory?

    How are they liking their victory? Looks more like they have two cages there in Israel... one for the Palestinians which is getting smaller, and one for Israelis which is getting bigger, but still not the paradise they thought it would be.

    No they can't, not without fingers

    Actually special force training includes punching with your open palm.... no chance of breaking your fingers...

    You can't set off anything with a stump (unless you try using two of them but you will be way too slow and get taken out before you do anything)

    You have a low opinion of amputees... do you think someone with no fingers can do nothing to harm you?

    I would think taking their fingers would make even the nicest gentlest person want to harm the person who took their fingers from them because they were afraid of what you might do with those fingers...

    He was the top of the program and that only means he managed the teams. He wasn't working directly. They probably have hundreds if not thousands of scientists working on that program.

    I suspect any resistance to their nuclear programme within Iran just got a lot weaker too... it is pretty clear having nuclear weapons is the only thing that will make them safe.

    Armored car with more than one bodyguard would have been more than enough

    For everyone involved?

    If this was an attempt to provoke a response, then they need to be clever about it...

    Imo, planned well in advance but waiting for Australia to secure release of their dual citizen first...israels thanks for all its one side support in recent times.
    Make no mistake, the israelis are well embedded in the Iranian security apparatus much like the British and Irish intelligence were in the IRA.

    Lots of foreigners in Iran... just kill a few... make it look like hits.... say ten foreigners for every Iranian... select Israelis and Americans or other nationalities... there should be plenty... preferably rich ones, but US or Israeli embassy staff or their families will do... obviously don't allow foreign investigations on Iranian territory. There will be dozens of suitable foreigners trying to liberalise Iran and make it more western and open...

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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:00 am

    The punishment should be against perpetrators only. Not ordinary civilians. Then what is our difference with them?  But before this , must obtain absolute proof, since it involves severe punishment. What if Saudi Royals were involved ?  Or internal MEK or some faction?  Or some individual in Europe or MI6?

    But even if we know, such as case of Soleimani, does not mean we can retaliate. A patient's knowledge of their illness, is no guarantee of a cure. The Iranians are not even giving out info about all these attacks, to own people. Let alone to the world. A week before this incident, another assassination against university professor was covered up quickly. As was the electronic interference of Ukraine plane, found by France, just before " shooting" by IRGC. Not manpads!

    Agree about detterent. But did you hear Rouhani today on RT? ....... We will not have nukes if....... We will not have nukes if........... We will not have nukes if...... The problem is to remove these Liberal opportunists from power. Ignore the defeatist Fatwa. Build nukes. IRGC should put own people in power. Especially intelligence ministry and Foreign ministry. A great cleansing.
    crod
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    Post  crod Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:43 am

    nomadski wrote:Are you saying your uncle was Usrael spy in Iran? I guess it is not difficult to put operatives in Iran or other country. But objectively, all we can say with certainty right now, about this incident :

    ( 1 )  Those that benefit by a short war with Iran, blame it all on the bad cop Trump and bring in good cop Biden, to reap the rewards and start a " new chapter", in relations. Are Usrael and Yanks.

    ( 2 )  The operatives had access to his car at some point , to determine it was not armoured. Or had access to this information. Simply bouncing a car, can tell you this, by how springs bounce back.

    ( 3 )  The operatives did not know the destination of vehicle. Did not attack on outward journey.

    ( 4)  They knew return route, well in advance. To set trap.

    This indicates that, since attack not done on outward journey, that they did not get info from personal source near him. But given attack on inward leg of journey, that they knew return route. Now Absard, the place he was killed, has many roads in and out. No way of predicting what road to set trap in. Even if they knew second by second, what road, he was on. By observation or GPS tracker attached to vehicle. Therefore they had more than one team on more than one Road.

    Also, reason for not attacking near his residence , could be that he lived in secure urban area. They could not make quick getaway. But a Rural area, with many roads, in and out, would give them this chance. Quickly drive away. But if police arrived quickly on the crime scene, they could be hiding in or around Absard, in fox holes.

    No he wasn’t, he had very little time for them actually but they had the means he needed. All I know is that he was tracking a Libyan there that was involved in bringing weapons to Ireland for the IRA. I’m not suggesting that he was getting those weapons or anything from Iran (Gaddafi had ample resources to send, and did). I simply don’t know as he told so very little of the story. Though he did say that the individual was later killed by Mi6 for the same reason.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:17 pm


    If Iran is so convinced in their interpretation of events and wants to retaliate but doesn't want to give USA and Israel what they want then they need to wait several weeks and strike when Biden takes over, drop it in his lap on the first day of presidency

    But Iranians will do nothing as always

    Clinton Cartel works for EU and Chinese plus they are on Iranian payroll as well and what they want to do when they take over again is to restart cooperation with China in order to refocus on attacking Russia as requested by EU and White European political establishment in USA

    I have no doubt that Iran will run back under Uncle Sam's skirt before February rolls around and will be taking aim at Russia the second Hillary snaps her fingers

    They are anything if not predictable



    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:04 pm

    Iran pretty much always strike back. They attacked a US base and you think thry woukdn't strike now that Trump is out.

    For that matter today or in 1 month doesn't change a lot.

    IMO they could even wait the anniversary of the death of the general and strike that day which is in begining of january.

    Trump can't start a war now anyway.

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    Post  par far Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:08 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    If Iran is so convinced in their interpretation of events and wants to retaliate but doesn't want to give USA and Israel what they want then they need to wait several weeks and strike when Biden takes over, drop it in his lap on the first day of presidency

    But Iranians will do nothing as always

    Clinton Cartel works for EU and Chinese plus they are on Iranian payroll as well and what they want to do when they take over again is to restart cooperation with China in order to refocus on attacking Russia as requested by EU and White European political establishment in USA

    I have no doubt that Iran will run back under Uncle Sam's skirt before February rolls around and will be taking aim at Russia the second Hillary snaps her fingers

    They are anything if not predictable





    This post is worse than the crap Vann posts.

    Iran will retaliate when it is the right time and it won't be a one time thing(see what is happening in Iraq.)

    Iran does not have extra money to be pissing in a shit hole like the US, Clinton Cartel is on the payroll of organizations like AIPAC, the US military complex and the big tech companies.

    The EU is on the payroll of US, not the other way. China does not have anyone in the US on its payroll, if it did, than the sanctions on Chinese companies would not have happened. Chinagate will be used by some Republicans and Pro-Trump supporters, like Russiagate was used by Democrats and Anti-Trump supporters.

    The Clinton cartel is on the payroll of Israeli lobbies, not Iranian lobbies(Iran has no lobbies inside US).
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:43 pm

    Isos wrote:Iran pretty much always strike back.

    When was the last time they struck back?

    Facebook memes don't count



    Isos wrote:They attacked a US base and you think thry woukdn't strike now that Trump is out.

    Attacked?

    They missed everything (unless you buy their bullshit how they wanted to miss on purpose)



    Isos wrote:For that matter today or in 1 month doesn't change a lot.

    Or a decade... or a century...

    It's the thought that counts, right?



    Isos wrote:IMO they could even wait the anniversary of the death of the general and strike that day which is in begining of january.

    Decades will pass and Iran won't be doing anything except for usual hurr-durr



    Isos wrote:Trump can't start a war now anyway.

    And still Iran won't do anything while he is there

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:31 am

    The punishment should be against perpetrators only. Not ordinary civilians.

    They people they are murdering are also ordinary citizens, why should israeli and american citizens in Iran be safe when Iranians are not because americans and israelis are murdering them?

    Then what is our difference with them?

    The difference is that you are responding to their violence with violence, you didn't start this game.

    Let me ask you... if you do nothing why would they stop? Why not expand the target field beyond nuclear scientists... why not kill off Irans best and brightest... they already impose sanctions to effect your economy... why would killing a few businessmen be that much different?

    But before this , must obtain absolute proof, since it involves severe punishment. What if Saudi Royals were involved ? Or internal MEK or some faction? Or some individual in Europe or MI6?

    So what if it was a Saudi Royal or european or western spook... they are playing this game already... how long before you realise they are not going to stop and by not playing you are condemning a lot of smart useful Iranians to death.... they aren't killing the dumb useless people...

    It is a selective cull to reduce your chances as a species of success...

    But even if we know, such as case of Soleimani, does not mean we can retaliate.

    Which will in effect ensure it continues...

    A patient's knowledge of their illness, is no guarantee of a cure.

    A patient who knows his doctor hates him and wants him to remain a sick weak victim needs to find a different doctor, because their current doctor needs to be struck off and prosecuted....

    Especially intelligence ministry and Foreign ministry. A great cleansing.

    And while you are talking about it the ones that don't need to be cleansed are being murdered by Israel... you do understand that effect... perhaps that explains the covering up and lack of response... it is like that famous conversation between two communists during Stalins purge that went something along the lines of... did you hear they are kill all the officers... the reply was... it is OK they are only killing the competent officers...

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:40 am

    @ GarryB

    ".... why should israeli and american citizens in Iran be safe when Iranians are not because americans and israelis are murdering them?...."

    In a total war, where entire population is under arms and fighting and actively killing , then it may be difficult to distinguish  combatants from non-combatants. Then it is correct to generalise and say.... " they " are killing " us ". But  ordinary Americans or Usraelis are not actively engaged in killing  of Iranians. Just the Zionists and Neo-cons. They provoke a war, to stay in power and in profit. Their population has no choice, but to support them. We must separate them from this influence. Target those responsible. However if their attack poses an existential threat, and no possibility exists to target the culprits only, then the target list may have to be slightly broadened. A City, instead of a party political meeting......

    ".... So what if it was a Saudi Royal or european or western spook... they are playing this game already... how long before you realise they are not going to stop and by not playing you are condemning a lot of smart useful Iranians to death.... they aren't killing the dumb useless people..."

    Yes they are all playing. And for each action , there should ideally be an equal reaction. But Iran can not do this, because they have greater force, weapons and Nukes. Iran has less weapons and no Nukes.  That is  why they attack. By building a detterent, Iran will be able to retaliate and quickly escalate to threat of Nuclear weapons. I have been saying Iran needs a detterent. But Iranian ruling elite, unlike the people, are pro-western American brain washed Liberals. They will not protect Iranian national interests.

    "... And while you are talking about it the ones that don't need to be cleansed are being murdered by Israel... you do understand that effect... perhaps that explains the covering up and lack of response... it is like that famous conversation between two communists during Stalins purge that went something along the lines of... did you hear they are kill all the officers... the reply was... it is OK they are only killing the competent officers..."

    Agree. I was not going to mention cover-up in this Fakhrizadeh case. But explanation given, not consistent with initial reports and facts on the ground. The initial reports, were of explosion, followed by gunfire, with some unconfirmed reports of several attackers. The later official reports claim no attackers, first gunfire then explosion.

    Now it makes no sense to open fire first, if one can use the exploding car. Just allow car to pass by, then destroy car. The reason explosion did not work, was that it was set off too early. About 15 meters too early. I have seen videos of IED in Iraq, failing because of misjudged timing. It makes sense then, that attackers came in and opened fire, to finish the job. Plus, if MG was used , then only 4 shots fired at windscreen!  Why?  Were they short of bullets?  Difficult to discharge so few rounds with automatic weapon. Plus side windows shot out. Driver window could not have been pulled down in winter. It shattered. ( side windows are designed to shatter). As you would expect, if glass was not bullet proof. The hits on main windscreen indicate, normal toughened glass. Small shattered area, compared to bullet proof glass that creates a larger impact area of broken glass, absorbing impact . Runs against official story of armoured car.

    In short, original story more likely correct. Official story does not add up. If vehicle armoured, then officials not to blame for failings. If no assailants captured, because they did not exists in first place. Officials not incompetent. Or is it that the truth may indicate enemy had inside job. Lead vehicle protecting, left convoy, just prior to incident. Allowing attack to take place.... If Iranians were given all the correct information, then those in power have to make a quick exit from political office.... .

    https://youtu.be/Mt2mzCBnEXg

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:37 am

    https://www.rt.com/news/508788-iran-assassination-mossad-interview/

    The fact that Brennan called it a criminal act clearly shows that America supported this and likely drove it for political means.... Trump wanted a war to deflect attention from the election issues.... for Brennan to call it a criminal act is not to say he mourns the dead Iranian, but he fears the consequences of this action and its effect on US/Iran relations that this attack was clearly supposed to destabilise.

    I would say organise a meeting in Iraq with a high up US representative and then blow it up like they did with your general and call it even... obviously try to minimise Iraqi losses as much as possible... Twisted Evil
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    Post  nomadski Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:17 pm

    Reading the comments out of Iran, it appears that most officials are downplaying this incident as well. Like other incidents lately. The culprits are not immediately identified. The reasons are twofold. For some who will negotiate under any and all circumstances, and repeat any JCPOA mistake and agree to any demand, no attack justifies abandoning their pro - American stance. And for others, it may be a cautious avoidance of war.

    Ofcourse the public demand retaliation. And it may be difficult to avoid this.Leaving aside the Liberal defeatists, then those that are hesitant for the sake of peace, are only justified in their caution, if in fact they are actively building a detterent. One that once revealed , will change the situation from war to peace. And one that is almost ready. Otherwise this caution is futile, and is understood by all as weakness.

    Therefore if they wait, so as to display a detterence, all is well and good. Otherwise, it is better to retaliate now than later. Before the blood of the victim runs cold. And people's heart turns into hopelessness and dispair. A retaliation, an incident similar to the one that the enemy organised. Irrespective of who is in the white House. Or when.
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    Post  nomadski Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:12 am

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/167267/Iran-signs-agreements-for-arms-export-Defense-Minister

    Good to know. I bet purchases refer to fighter jets from Russia or China. I hope they let us know ASAP. Now I will try to answer some media topics out of Iran. Since I am the great sage ( not the vegetable kind) and will solve the world's problems with a few suggestions !!

    ( 1 )  A high birth rate is not necessarily good. Or Islamic. All depends on available resources and agriculture and GDP.  The ideal population size , is somewhere between the maximum and minimum levels. Seeing the economic decline  in Iran, then maintaining the present population size , seems the best option. Therefore no more than two children per couple. With state aid, to facilitate this.

    ( 2 )  Unemployment can be greatly reduced and GDP increased by lengthening the working week to seven days with a three shift system for all industry and a job share scheme and early retirement for some people. This scheme will not need new investment. Simply more efficient use of present apparatus. The job share scheme, together with a three shift system, will mean that the same industry, employs twice as many people, with twice the output. Employ the young.

    ( 3 ) The JCPOA , or supposed trading of Iran's  detterence for economic welfare was a fail . Should be rejected . Not maintained or renegotiated. Defence should not be sold out to goodwill gestures of the enemy.  The enemy can not and will not negotiate or trade with Iran, if they feel they can defeat Iran, and take easily by force, what they had to Barter for, at a high cost. Nukes mean they have to compromise and negotiate.

    ( 4 )  No ideology in the world is complete or immune from error. All ideology has to be understood correctly and within correct historical context. Otherwise errors result. This is not an easy task. And needs the greatest degree of tolerance and social and political and scientific discussion. Iranians have to reject intolerance and political violence. Establish political parties, based on freedom of political thought. Build a Democratic Republic.

    Now to the next problem..........

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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:13 am

    Would remind the great one that in urban areas lots of children are not needed unless they are prepared to seasonally go out to the country and bring in the crops, so I would probably suggest for one child in the city and three in urban areas...

    I would say training schemes and education would also equip the young with the skills to get jobs... it would be useful for businesses to get together and talk about what skills they want and what sort of workers and jobs they need to fill now and potentially in the future so the kids don't all get the same degree and compete for a small range of a few jobs they think look cushy... and well paid.

    Of course farmers would have less problems getting crops in if they paid the workers a better wage and offered things like free accommodation and food so the money they earn can be saved... but then that also comes down to the people the farmers sell the food to paying a fair price as well.

    I think Biden will want the return of the JCPOA, but I rather suspect he will also want to add conditions... and if he does I think Iran should reject that out of hand.

    The JCPOA was talked through and agreed... Iran kept its part of the bargain and the US and EU have not... Iran could go back to complying with the agreement if both the US and EU do too.

    If the US wants any other concessions they they need to add things to the pot... and they need to be serious things for serious things and certain things are off the table anyway.

    Obviously I don't think Biden will agree to any of this so the JCPOA remains off the table so Iran should develop nuclear weapons capacity and call their nuclear weapons after the scientists and generals foreign powers have killed... Twisted Evil

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    crod
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    Post  crod Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:39 am

    I don’t think there is any doubt that he’s going back to it, equally there is little doubt that to appease the jews, Iran’s missile technology will be dragged into it; if you read the comments out of Europe, they’re saying the same thing - the jews have been working hard with both sides of the Atlantic now singing from the same hymn sheet.
    Iran should outright call this a red line and walkout.
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    Post  nomadski Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:52 pm

    I personally don't care if the  new American admin go back to JCPOA ,  even without any new conditions on missiles or  FATF  or ..... And selling Iran  Boeing  and  agricultural  goods or.....

    Iran needs ICBM and Nukes and nuclear subs. Because another American regime  will change  it's mind  or  the Usraelis will loose patience and attack or the Turks or Pakistan or...... or.........or..........

    JCPOA , was not just a test for the Americans. It was a test for all. For our time. A time when only the threat of certain annihilation will deter from war. All will sooner or later come to this conclusion.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:22 am

    And that is the lesson isn't it.

    Get nukes or we will screw you.

    Ironic that they had a good deal, but was ruined because the US wanted more...

    The Trump Administration was the dog walking over a bridge carrying a nice big juicy bone... it looked into the water and saw another dog that also had a big juicy bone too... it wanted both bones so it barked and both bones disappeared...

    Of course when you are dealing with such stupidity don't expect too much from having nuclear weapons... China and Russia have nukes and the US treats them with sanctions and continuous abuse against their country and their leaders...
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    Post  nomadski Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:41 am

    But America trades with Russia and China and it will not go to war with either country. Sure they make noises and send Aircraft carriers now and again. But tensions do not escalate even to minor skirmishes, like India and Pakistan.

    War becomes impossible . One side phones the other ,  to inform them  of  a cruise missile  " attack" so that they evacuate positions and nobody is killed . A symbolic strike. But in the case of Iran ,  there  is no fear of  causing  actual death. Shoot first and then claim responsibility.

    Once the world learns that Iran is a Nuke power ,  all the people learn this fact , and not just the few. Then  political pressure  will stop any politician  or  adventuring General  to  escalate tensions to the point of war.

    And since war is made impossible , then  nations have no choice but to resolve problems through peace. Over the long term. This includes respecting the basic rights of populations and countries to security and welfare.

    I think it is time for Iran to declare itself a Nuclear weapon power. Because the advantages  of an overt programme and display of force streanght, far outweigh any disadvantages. A strategic Nuclear detterence. Non negotiable.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:02 am

    NK has done it but still is being sanctioned. Iran is going to be a fat target for the hybrid war waged against it now, just like Russia is, regardless of its nuclear status.
    Convencional war on Iran isn't in the cards- it's too big, has lots of missiles, planes & boats & now has de-facto border with Russia via Karabakh & the Caspian Sea. 
    The Turks r also not stupid to start a war as Russia will finish it for them, with a big possibility of them losing everything, incl. Kars & Istanbul.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:24 am

    "..... NK has done it but still is being sanctioned......."

    Absolutely. And Cuba gave them up and is being sanctioned. And Pakistan has them and is not being sanctioned....... It looks like the economic sanctions are independent of Nukes. Depend on policy. If a country is independent , then it is sanctioned. China is an exception , because of the size of economy and cheap production costs. But this is also changing. Therefore silly to link Nukes to sanctions. And crazier still to give up Nukes for the sake of lifting of sanctions. So the JCPOA should be thrown into dustbin of history.


    ".. Iran is going to be a fat target for the hybrid war waged against it now, just like  Russia is regardless of its nuclear status........"

    Nukes do not stop all conflict . But they stop escalations into hot conventional war. A cold War  will exist regardless of Nuke status. But better a cold War than a hot war. And I don't remember North Korea's Generals and scientists being assassinated by America.

    "..... Convencional war on Iran isn't in the cards- it's too big, has lots of missiles, planes & boats & now has de-facto border with Russia via Karabakh & the Caspian Sea........."

    The reason full conventional war did not start yet , should be seen as a historical and transient anomaly. I have no doubt that we are and have been on the verge of war, for some time. And the next time someone sneezes at the wrong time, I am sure there will be war. The military industrial complex  has supremacy in USA , and they win by any kind of war. Even one that they will " loose".


    "..... The Turks r also not stupid to start a war as Russia will finish it for them, with a big possibility of them losing everything, incl. Kars & Istanbul......"

    Human history shows that there is a constant state of war between tribes and nations. Expansion and contraction. Nation states behave like blind Amoeba. Expanding and devouring each other. Nukes have made a difference. No more expansion or contraction through war.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amoeba


    https://youtu.be/C5vSQhI624s

    And so on ad-infinitum......
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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:27 am

    But America trades with Russia and China and it will not go to war with either country. Sure they make noises and send Aircraft carriers now and again. But tensions do not escalate even to minor skirmishes, like India and Pakistan.

    The US waves a big stick and talks about sanctions, but the EU has imposed more actual sanctions against Russia than the US had... the trade between the US and Russia never really became that significant anyway and these days it wont improve much without a serious change in the US... which I rather doubt.

    NK has done it but still is being sanctioned.

    Nukes in China and Russia don't stop US sanctions... nothing stops US sanctions... especially not common sense... but it does mean they wont attack you and will try to avoid actual conflict that could turn into war... that is about as good as it gets with a fucked up psycho country like America.

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    Post  nomadski Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:46 am

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/167549/Iran-not-worried-about-USS-Georgia-entering-Persian-Gulf

    If  these were  civilian ships or cargo ships  and  if  they were not hostile  and  had come at a time of peace ,  then  no problems .  But  since they are military vessels that have come  at a time of extreme  tension  and  they are nuclear  powered or armed  and that  they could be hit and  damaged or sunk  then causing massive pollution in these seas, that all countries use for fishing and  even a source of fresh water ,  then  they should immediately leave .

    Therefore there is every concern  for Iran . We should  tell them to leave PG immediately . Both the yank and Usrael nuclear sub. If they do not leave, then their propellers should be wrecked  and they should be taken over and brought to Iranian port . The sailors arrested for  endangering the  environment  and livelihood of PG countries .

    Posturing by nuclear subs  or nuclear armed  ships, should not be done at all. Let alone near  coastal and enclosed regions, where they are likely to be engaged by fast attack boats or mines. Now tell the  Yanks and Usraelis to get the fuck out. Or face the music........ ASAP. Using fishing nets in the Hormuz narrow straits is a good idea of capturing vessels without explosions........


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    Post  nomadski Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:14 am



    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Sokcho_submarine_incident


    Here, simply put net out and tell them to surface and surrender vessel or risk being taken over by force. Like this incident.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:31 am

    If Iran attacks &/ captures any US warship/sub before a direct mil. hostile action on itself, that's an act of war, asking for B-1/2/52 & F-15E/18E/F strikes on it, with Turkey not missing an opportunity to come & take Azerbaijan. 
    The Gulf of Tonkin incident was used to justify attacking N. Vietnam leading to a long war in SE Asia with Ms of killed, maimed & displaced. Iran should be careful not to repeat it.
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    Post  nomadski Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:54 am

    The Americans should be careful.  They could even sabotage one of their own nuclear vessels, by running aground . Polluting PG waters . And  I think it is the Yanks and Usraelis guilty of act of war by bringing this shit, into PG waters, a potential hot zone . So no disagree strongly.

    Yankee doodoolee dandy...... get the hell out.  Or Submarine is impounded by Iran. War or otherwise. I think no nuclear powered or armed vessels should be allowed in PG, from any country. Because of potential accident or damage and pollution risk. Putting lives of millions at risk.

    The Yanks supposedly treat the sewage discharged from their ships, while in PG waters, so as not to offend the sensibility of Muslims or cause environmental pollution. But plutonium is far more poisonous than American human excrement.........

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