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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:00 pm

    The comparison with football is really fitting. Every dumbass thinks he is an expert. In one minute people like Shoigu or Gerassimov are heros the next they are loosers. Never did anything right...

    The military had to work within a small perimeter of allowed actions due to the nature of this operation. What changed has nothing to do with the military leadership (the new hero Surovikin) but the nature of the operation.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:46 pm

    Hole wrote:The comparison with football is really fitting. Every dumbass thinks he is an expert. In one minute people like Shoigu or Gerassimov are heros the next they are loosers. Never did anything right...

    The military had to work within a small perimeter of allowed actions due to the nature of this operation. What changed has nothing to do with the military leadership (the new hero Surovikin) but the nature of the operation.

    Stalin and Hitler also fucked up military operations. Politicians trying to be military leaders is what makes you loose wars.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:55 am

    Both Stalin and Hitler also had conflicts that went well that the west would describe as fuckups... mostly because in their (secret) interests the results were not to their favour.
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    Post  Isos Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:44 pm

    GarryB wrote:Both Stalin and Hitler also had conflicts that went well that the west would describe as fuckups... mostly because in their (secret) interests the results were not to their favour.

    Maybe, I'm not an expert. I just remember that both Hitler and Stalin forbid their generals to retreat when retreat or death was the only option.

    It was politic reason going against military logic. They were afraid of political repercussions and made sacrifice of thousabds of soldiers. And when a general is too good he become a political opponent defacto so they just fire him, arab states did that plenty of time.
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    Post  caveat emptor Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:20 pm

    Hole wrote:The comparison with football is really fitting. Every dumbass thinks he is an expert. In one minute people like Shoigu or Gerassimov are heros the next they are loosers. Never did anything right...

    The military had to work within a small perimeter of allowed actions due to the nature of this operation. What changed has nothing to do with the military leadership (the new hero Surovikin) but the nature of the operation.
    Shoigu is a civilian, politician, and not military guy.  Only thing one can hope for is that Shoigu wasn't involved in making military decisions.

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    Post  Werewolf Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:42 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    Shoigu is a civilian, politician, and not military guy.  Only thing one can hope for is that Shoigu wasn't involved in making military decisions.

    Yes, I totally agree. He certainly has no idea about military. I guess we can nominate some of our arms chair generals as MoD of Russia. These guys know a lot which the Russian General stuff nor FSB knows.

    I guess there are few Generals who are already tired of being killed and resurrected again and again. They would happily give you their seats.
    Let them rest.

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    Post  caveat emptor Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:43 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Yes, I totally agree. He certainly has no idea about military. I guess we can nominate some of our arms chair generals as MoD of Russia. These guys know a lot which the Russian General stuff nor FSB knows.

    I guess there are few Generals who are already tired of being killed and resurrected again and again. They would happily give you their seats.
    Let them rest.
    What that has to do with Shoigu being civilian?
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    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:44 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Yes, I totally agree. He certainly has no idea about military. I guess we can nominate some of our arms chair generals as MoD of Russia. These guys know a lot which the Russian General stuff nor FSB knows.

    I guess there are few Generals who are already tired of being killed and resurrected again and again. They would happily give you their seats.
    Let them rest.

    Not to mention that Shoigu is a "politician" in the same way as the lion is "a cat".
    Guy walked up the tree of the emergency ministry for the 30 years or so. The first publicized material I saw him in charge of the emergency situation was an earthquake in Armenia in 1988.
    Oh yeah, all of our sofa experts would be much better at handling that either, no doubts at all ! Laughing Laughing

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    Post  Werewolf Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:02 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    What that has to do with Shoigu being civilian?

    Him being MoD of Russia hardly anyone would call him a civilian. So far I don't see a reason to critic him for his job.
    The procurement and research & development has also been pushed by him and not just Putin and the administrative decision makers.
    Criticizing is very easy, but actually living up to your own critic seems to be the hard part.

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    Post  caveat emptor Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:40 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Guy walked up the tree of the emergency ministry for the 30 years or so. The first publicized material I saw him in charge of the emergency situation was an earthquake in Armenia in 1988.
    You're talking about Sakhalin earthquake, probably. He was MChS minister already.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:04 am

    Maybe, I'm not an expert. I just remember that both Hitler and Stalin forbid their generals to retreat when retreat or death was the only option.

    Actually the west criticises Adolfs order not to retreat when German troops were at the gates of Moscow, but in actual fact that was in the depths of winter, so retreating from the cover you had found to potentially open steppe probably would have killed them much faster than trying to stay put.

    In many cases individual Soviet Unit stayed put an held up the German advance for several days which could have been rather critical.

    One famous case of a KV-1 holding up a large number of Germans in Belarus... it held a fork in the road at a time of the year when armoured vehicles simply cannot operate off road, and it held its position for a few days. The Germans brought up several 88mm guns but the KV-1 managed to destroy several before they could set up.

    In the end the Germans used tanks as distractions (with 50mm guns which barely scratched the KV on later inspection) while several 88mm guns were set up.

    The KV was hit 6 times of which only two rounds penetrated and as they approached the turret started to turn... a German threw a grenade into the hatch of the tank...

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:57 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Maybe, I'm not an expert. I just remember that both Hitler and Stalin forbid their generals to retreat when retreat or death was the only option.

    Actually the west criticises Adolfs order not to retreat when German troops were at the gates of Moscow, but in actual fact that was in the depths of winter, so retreating from the cover you had found to potentially open steppe probably would have killed them much faster than trying to stay put.

    In many cases individual Soviet Unit stayed put an held up the German advance for several days which could have been rather critical.

    One famous case of a KV-1 holding up a large number of Germans in Belarus... it held a fork in the road at a time of the year when armoured vehicles simply cannot operate off road, and it held its position for a few days. The Germans brought up several 88mm guns but the KV-1 managed to destroy several before they could set up.

    In the end the Germans used tanks as distractions (with 50mm guns which barely scratched the KV on later inspection) while several 88mm guns were set up.

    The KV was hit 6 times of which only two rounds penetrated and as they approached the turret started to turn... a German threw a grenade into the hatch of the tank...


    The Germans retreated readily in the face of the Soviet counter-offensive of winter '41. Which was just as well for them, otherwise they would have ended up with more of their forces encircled.

    Hitler did intervene and force them to hold every patch of ground. But this back and forth, along with dismissals of generals probably hampered the German efforts more than anything else

    As for the Soviets, they also retreated as the Germans advanced throughout 1941. I'm speaking generally here. Of course there were units that gave an incredibly tenacious defense as in the Brest Fortress.
    This was due to the mentality of Russian commanders, indeed inspired no doubt by the war against Napoleon, that there was always more land to trade for advantage and time.
    However it eventually got to the point where Red Army commanders had given up so much land, that a considerable amount of the USSR's manpower, agricultural, industrial potential was now in enemy hands. That in fact giving up land forever was not viable; and Stalin for this reason issued his famous order no. 227 among others. Which was the right move on his part.
    The situation for the Soviets in summer-fall 1941 was the inverse of the one for the Germans in winter 1941. That they had spare land to give up was an illusion. Here or there losses could be tolerated, but in fact it was imperative - and this wasn't always realized - to slow down the German advance as much as possible. Thus giving more time for the evacuation of industry, the harvest of crops, the mobilization being carried out, and for winter to arrive.

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:57 am

    caveat emptor wrote:
    You're talking about Sakhalin earthquake, probably. He was MChS minister already.

    No I don't.

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    Post  Hole Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:25 pm

    After the Armenian earthquake Shoigu was part (or even head)of  a commission to look into all the troubles and mistakes that happened during the relief efforts, EMERCOM was created from this commission and he became the head of the organisation, receiving the title of a minister from Yelzin at the beginning of the 90´s.

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    Post  franco Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:48 pm

    Peskov noted the need to put the mobilization system in order

    Certain mistakes and shortcomings in the work of the mobilization system in Russia were noticed by everyone, not just specialists. The system should be put in order, Russian presidential press Secretary Dmitry Peskov said on October 12, commenting on the words of Russian Prosecutor General Igor Krasnov about the identified shortcomings during partial mobilization.

    "Any state should have an effective mobilization system. This is not due to the continuation of mobilization, it is due to the fact that the system must be put in order," the Kremlin spokesman said.

    According to Peskov, shortcomings in the work of the mobilization system are eliminated in its course.

    "Something has been fixed, something still needs to be fixed," he stressed.

    The Kremlin spokesman recalled the words of the Russian leader that if partial mobilization had not been announced, the country's authorities would not have known about the problems in the system.

    Earlier on Wednesday, Russian Prosecutor General Igor Krasnov said that the mobilization system operating in Russia needs to be modernized. In particular, in his opinion, many troubles during partial mobilization could have been avoided if reservists, as required by law, reported to the military commissariats up-to-date information about themselves.

    On October 10, Russian President Vladimir Putin noted that during the partial mobilization" there is "enough confusion". According to him, if the mobilization had not been announced, they would not have seen the existing problems, they accumulated for a long time.

    A day earlier, Deputy Chairman of the Russian Security Council Dmitry Medvedev stressed that partial mobilization in Russia is taking place as it can take place in a country where such a measure has not been introduced for 80 years.

    Partial mobilization in Russia was announced by the President of the Russian Federation on September 21. The Russian leader stressed that the decision was made to protect the country's sovereignty, territorial integrity and ensure the security of its citizens.

    Russia continues its special operation to protect the Donbass region, whose residents refused to recognize the results of the 2014 coup d'etat in Ukraine. The decision to hold it was made on February 24 amid the aggravation of the situation in the region due to the shelling of Ukrainian troops.

    https://translated.turbopages.org/proxy_u/ru-en.en.c3f21cb1-6346a7f7-de74ccd3-74722d776562/https/iz.ru/1408921/2022-10-12/peskov-otmetil-neobkhodimost-privesti-mobilizatcionnuiu-sistemu-v-poriadok

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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:47 am

    Hitler did intervene and force them to hold every patch of ground. But this back and forth, along with dismissals of generals probably hampered the German efforts more than anything else

    The most glaringly obvious mistake was not allowing the German soldiers in Stalingrad to withdraw, but that was mainly because Hitler was told the luftwaffe could keep them supplied and support was on its way and they just needed to hold on.

    Most westerners see WWII movies and think they are documentaries... especially western movies which are so factual they are documentaries, while Soviet and Russian movies are just propaganda... Wink

    Peskov noted the need to put the mobilization system in order

    Any mobilisation in the west would require all social media to be banned for a month or two to avoid the potential for the enemy to spread panic amongst your population...

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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Oct 28, 2022 9:19 am

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    Post  franco Sat Oct 29, 2022 1:07 pm

    Russian Defense Ministry: the first female military pilots graduated from the Russian aviation school

    The Russian Ministry of Defense reported that the country hosted the first graduation of women military pilots from the Krasnodar Higher Military Aviation School. Serov, reports TASS .

    “Today, for the first time, the school graduates female pilots who entered in 2017,” the message says.

    Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu , in his address to the graduates, noted that more than half of them completed their studies with honors.

    “You are the glorious successors of traditions that go back to ancient times, when women pilots, along with men, defended our Motherland from enemies. You have a special and interesting life path ahead of you. Being the first is a big responsibility,” the minister said in his congratulations.

    Earlier it was reported that the Russian Ministry of Defense will complete the construction of a new Suvorov military school for 420 places in Irkutsk by September 2023.

    A canteen, a multifunctional building and a dormitory building are currently under construction. The school will also have a swimming pool and a sports complex with a playground for football, volleyball, handball, and basketball. An ice field will also be created for the Irkutsk Suvorovites. More than 500 builders and 30 units of equipment work at the site.

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    Post  franco Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:02 am


    General Staff: more than 15,000 people have signed up for volunteer units since the beginning of the special operation


    More than 15,000 people signed up as volunteers to participate in a special operation in Ukraine. This was stated by the head of the 2nd Directorate of the Main Organizational and Mobilization Directorate (GOMU) of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation Alexander Tulyaganov in the Federation Council.

    “Currently, more than 15,000 people have gone through volunteer units,” he said.

    According to Tulyaganov, they include both those who, without waiting for a summons, went to the zone of a special military operation during partial mobilization, and those who joined the volunteer detachments of their own free will before it.

    The day before, on October 31, the official representative of the Russian Ministry of Defense announced the termination of the delivery of subpoenas and the completion of partial mobilization activities. Now the military registration and enlistment offices will recruit volunteers and candidates for contract soldiers to participate in the special operation.

    https://tvzvezda-ru.translate.goog/news/2022111107-Psk44.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui

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    Post  franco Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:29 pm

    General Linkov appointed acting Commander of the Central Military District

    Major General Alexander Linkov has been appointed Acting Commander of the Central Military District (CVO). This was reported to TASS on November 3 in the press service of the district.

    In this capacity, Linkov attended a meeting between Vladimir Yakushev, the Presidential Plenipotentiary Representative in the Ural Federal District, and civil society activists of the district, which took place earlier in the day.

    Previously, Linkov held the position of head of the Organizational and mobilization Department of the Central Military District.

    The Central Military District is located on the territory of 29 regions of Russia. It also includes the 201st military base in Tajikistan, a joint military base in Kyrgyzstan, and units in Kazakhstan. The district headquarters is located in Yekaterinburg.

    https://translated.turbopages.org/proxy_u/ru-en.en.50ba015f-636423be-35af49bb-74722d776562/https/iz.ru/1420690/2022-11-03/general-linkov-naznachen-vrio-komanduiushchego-tcvo

    NOTE: so much for the previous report

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