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    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:14 am

    It is the hypocrisy I am pointing out, To argue they have any right to that land due that some old historical claim which is subjective because other people where they before thek is moronic.

    If you wish to apply that standard, Russia must give Sevas back to China, must give the kirls back the Japan and must surrender Kalin to Germany, Crimea to Greece or Turkey etc, list goes on

    So the situation is that Russia and Armenia and Azerbaijan all do not say that NK is Armenian land... there doesn't seem to be any problem with this by any side....

    So what is the problem... well Russia and Armenia and the people of NK don't want Azerbaijan to come in and claim the land for themselves and kill the locals whom they see as foreigner.

    It is very much the same as the situation in the Ukraine... Ukrainians living in the East of the country spoke Russian but they never wanted to join Russia until Kiev had shelled and bombed and shot and murdered them for 8 years.

    Russia hasn't spend the better part of the last decade claiming these people are Russians and it would not be Russias place to tell them who they are... they had to decide for themselves and they have had a referendum and decided to join the Russian Federation and become Russians because that was their best option for the future.

    The people living in the NK should have a referendum and perhaps decide on independence if no one accepts them as being part of Armenia then let them become an independent state... which they must have been for all this time anyway.

    What you are missing is that international law basically allows the people on the land to decide... outside powers should not get to choose... even if they are the US or UK or whatever.

    Of course letting a majority decide does not give them the right to abuse a minority within their borders, or to ship them out or ship other people in to change the results of any referendum.

    Of course conflicts change things... the people of the Falklands are mostly British and see themselves and their culture as British... it would be interesting to know if any Argentinians have every tried to move there and what response they got from the locals... I suspect they would not be made welcome. In South Ossetia and Abkhazia there was conflict and Georgians living in those regions had to leave which of course will change any results you might get from any referendum... but of course allowing them to go back and they will take advantage of that and move a huge number of Georgians back into those regions to take them over a bit like the Albanians did in Kosovo.

    The fact is that there is nothing completely fair about this, but Russia is there to try to stop two or three groups from killing each other... as opposed to a western intervention which normally picks a side and calls the other side the enemy and tries to kill the designated enemy while claiming the side they are fighting for are the innocent victims... which normally means they have promised oil and resource contracts to the US for after the war is over.

    And that's all it takes. You don't even need to gain most of the votes, just enough to dispute the result and gather the crowd with your allegations of election fraud supported by the Western media apparatus.

    The irony is that the countries doing the most to undermine democracy and peoples choice is the so called democratic west.

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    Eugenio Argentina
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    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 35 Empty Azerbaijan Launches 'Anti-Terrorist Activities' in Nagorno-Karabakh

    Post  Eugenio Argentina Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:18 pm

    Azerbaijan Launches 'Anti-Terrorist Activities' in Nagorno-Karabakh - Defense Ministry

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) - Azerbaijan launched local "anti-terrorist activities" in Nagorno-Karabakh to restore the constitutional order, the Azerbaijani Defense Ministry said on Tuesday.
    "Therefore, local anti-terrorist activities have been launched to ensure the provisions of the Trilateral Statement, suppress large-scale provocations in the Karabakh economic region, to disarm and secure the withdrawal of formations of Armenia’s armed forces from our territories, neutralize their military infrastructure, provide the safety of the civilian population returned to the territories liberated from occupation, the civilians involved in construction and restoration work and our military personnel, and ultimately restore the constitutional order of the Republic of Azerbaijan," the statement said.
    The Defense Ministry added that it informed the command of the Russian peacekeepers and the leadership of Monitoring Center about the ongoing events.
    Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said that "the media are spreading information that the Azerbaijani side allegedly warned Russian peacekeepers 'in advance' about today's 'anti-terrorist operation' in Nagorno-Karabakh. This is not true," she said, adding that "Baku informed Moscow a few minutes before the start of the operation.


    https://sputnikglobe.com/20230919/azerbaijan-launches-anti-terrorist-activities-in-nagorno-karabakh---defense-ministry-1113489403.html

    Cool

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    Eugenio Argentina
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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:22 pm

    MoD of Armenia

    @ArmeniaMODTeam
    As previously,the #Azerbaijani official reports&mass media again continue to disseminate false statements as if there are #Arm AF units, mil equipment, and personnel in #Nagorno_Karabakh.
    MoD of #Armenia has repeatedly stated that the RA doesn't have an army in Nagorno-Karabakh.

    https://twitter.com/ArmeniaMODTeam/status/1704088525539303472
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:32 pm

    Pussynyan and his handlers are trying to paint Russia as responsible for Armenia losing Nagorno-Karabakh. He may not have full support in Armenia but
    such retardation indicates that too many Armenians have an inadequacy syndrome just like Ukrs and Gruzins. The US and its NATzO minions are leveraging
    this syndrome to the max. In fact, it is their main ticket to success. Russia does not have any historical stake in Armenia so there is no point trying
    to intervene to prevent it from becoming a NATzO colony.

    The cunning plan of NATzO to place hypersonic missiles on Russia's borders needs to be met with automatic sub-sea missile platforms and Poseidon type
    doomsday weapons deployed along the coasts of America and western U-rope. I am sure that NATzO will try to disable these platforms, in which case
    they should detonate. Russia can send out more to replace them.
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    Post  mnztr Tue Sep 19, 2023 8:16 pm

    kvs wrote:Pussynyan and his handlers are trying to paint Russia as responsible for Armenia losing Nagorno-Karabakh.   He may not have full support in Armenia but
    such retardation indicates that too many Armenians have an inadequacy syndrome just like Ukrs and Gruzins.   The US and its NATzO minions are leveraging
    this syndrome to the max.  In fact, it is their main ticket to success.   Russia does not have any historical stake in Armenia so there is no point trying
    to intervene to prevent it from becoming a NATzO colony.  

    The cunning plan of NATzO to place hypersonic missiles on Russia's borders needs to be met with automatic sub-sea missile platforms and Poseidon type
    doomsday weapons deployed along the coasts of America and western U-rope.   I am sure that NATzO will try to disable these platforms, in which case
    they should detonate.   Russia can send out more to replace them.  

    Why the **** should Russia have to defend those bitches. lol.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:25 pm



    I think Mercouris is on the money here about the scenario unfolding and Pashinyan's role in it

    Only point where I disagree is where Mercouris faults Pashinyan for having been outsmarted and outmaneuvered. I have no doubts he would be anyway if he were acting independently, but as it is I'm more than sure that he was simply following the instructions he was given at every turn, from his masters who could scarcely give a crap about Nagorno, Nagorno-Karawha? And are only interested in fermenting a situation that binds Armenia to NATO and expels the Russians out of there.

    Sad. Sad for the people living there who are now under the threat of a new war. The Americans won't help them, the Russians have had their hands tied by all of Pashinyan's actions, it's now down to Iran and Russia acting by proxy through it with forces that in Nagorno-Karabakh that are ready to accept such assistance.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:36 pm

    Maybe someone should deliver Pussynyan from his misery.
    Some angry armenian nationalist. With the help of a SSO unit.
    Or a few well aimed cruise missiles.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:38 pm

    kvs wrote:The cunning plan of NATzO to place hypersonic missiles on Russia's borders needs to be met with automatic sub-sea missile platforms and Poseidon type
    doomsday weapons deployed along the coasts of America and western U-rope.   I am sure that NATzO will try to disable these platforms, in which case
    they should detonate.   Russia can send out more to replace them.  

    I'm of two minds here

    On the one hand yes, better to not be involved when you'll just be blamed by both sides

    On the other hand, handing over the entire Transcaucasus to the kebab merchants and NATO is not a good idea. They can at any time decide to bury their differences and align against Russia, China, Iran, and so on. And flood Central Asia with all sorts of Islamists and pan-Turk retards. Not to mention get their energy needs from there owing to corrupt Central Asian regimes whose elites have been bought out. The land-corridor for doing that goes through Armenia, particularly now that Georgia is having cold feet about joining NATO. IMO this would not be an acceptable risk for either Russia, or Iran, or China. They don't want either Turkey or NATO in Central Asia and the Caspian.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:38 am

    We had at least two Armenian members a while back and they both seem to have stopped posting.

    To be honest their last few posts reminded me of PD... we are so loyal to Russia and Russia just stabs us in the back...

    The question is, have they stopped posting because they have turned and love the US and the west and think Russia is evil, or have they been blocked from accessing a pro Russian site?

    It is hard to tell really, but neither has visited in a while.

    If Armenia wont send troops to NK and doesn't claim the region as being Armenian and no referendums are being held it essentially becomes a case like Ukraine in 2014 where the locals are not wanting to be controlled by Baku, but Yerevan wont step up and take ownership... replace the people in NK with the people of the Donbass et al, and Baku with Kiev and Moscow as an external party not wanting to get directly involved and preferring some Minsk agreements where NK gets autonomy and to keep the languages they want to speak for themselves without abuse from Kiev (Baku). But Baku(Kiev) wants to sort it out with their military and want the land but really don't care so much for the people living there whom they see as being Foreign (Armenian actually... but Russian) in this analogy.

    Russia is involved because these are former Soviet republics and Russia has kept these groups apart and kept them from killing each other since the fall of the Soviet Union.

    Personally I think Russia should let the three sides sort it out for themselves because anything they try to impose will be artificial and simply will not last.

    Let the people of NK decide with a referendum that includes options to join Armenia or Azerbaijan or Russia or become a neutral autonomous region.

    Would be interesting to see some honest maps showing geology and resources in the region... I suspect other motivations on the part of some parties...

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Sep 20, 2023 7:23 am

    Pashinyan is betraying the Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh and trying to wash his hands of the matter. This has been noticed now even by the Armenian diaspora in the US
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/will-armenia-follow-ukraine-prime-minister-pashinyan-brings/

    The republic of Artsakh is a seperate authority from that of Armenia proper, it has its own government, which is not controlled by Pashinyan. What it needs to do is accept help from the Iranians and through them the Russians too. I'm confident this is already underway. As the war gets going and Pashinyan shows his true face, opposition to him in Armenia can mount; the goal is to overthrow him and there is no time to wait for the ballot box. After that, Armenia needs to annex Artsakh - and thus in this way defy the West beyond all measure, but also allow them to conduct mobilization in its defense, and throw in their cards with Iran and Russia (and China) who will support them.

    This is the only chance they have otherwise they will lose this territory. And after that it will only be a matter of time before they lose their southern province too which connects them to Iran and prevents a direct land corridor between Turkey and Azerbaijan.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Sep 20, 2023 9:31 am

    From WarGonzo

    ⚡The fighting in Nagorno-Karabakh does not lose intensity⚡

    According to sources from Armenia, citing the Nagorno-Karabakh Defense Army, fighting, with varying degrees of intensity, continues along the entire line of contact. Several villages came under the control of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces.

    Shelling of Stepanakert, Martuni and surrounding areas continues. Civilian infrastructure also comes under artillery strikes.

    Let us recall that yesterday Baku put forward demands, compliance with which is necessary to complete the so-called “counter-terrorism” operation carried out in Nagorno-Karabakh. These include the liquidation of all Armenian armed forces and the dissolution of the government of the unrecognized republic.

    If the requirements are not met, the Azerbaijani Armed Forces will continue the ground operation, which, in principle, has not stopped.

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Wed Sep 20, 2023 11:12 am

    My suspicion is that the US troops are there to prevent a military coup or assassination attempt on the traitor or to carry out serious countermeasures through reconnaissance for the enemy. Either way, this situation must be resolved and massively eliminated through Russian intervention.

    If this does not happen, US and IDF troops will be stationed on the Caspian Sea and thus massively hinder the Russia-Iran axis.

    I do not like it at all.

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    franco
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    Post  franco Wed Sep 20, 2023 12:42 pm

    Through the mediation of the command of the Russian peacekeeping contingent stationed in Nagorno-Karabakh, an agreement was reached on a ceasefire from 13:00 today. In fact, all the conditions of the Azerbaijani side regarding the complete surrender of Armenian forces in the unrecognized Republic of Artsakh have been accepted.

    Under the terms of the agreements, Armenia withdraws the remaining units of its army from the territory of Karabakh along with military equipment . The NKR defense forces are completely disarmed and disbanded.

    Over the course of two days of stubborn fighting, units of the Armed Forces of Artsakh heroically defended themselves against an enemy who was several times superior in manpower and military equipment, inflicting the greatest losses on him. Unfortunately, the Artsakh side also suffered losses and wounded, and in some areas the enemy managed to break through to the combat positions of the Defense Army and take control of a number of heights and strategic road junctions. In the current situation, the actions of the international community towards ending the war and resolving the situation are insufficient. Taking all this into account, the authorities of the Republic of Artsakh accept the proposal of the command of the Russian peacekeeping mission regarding a ceasefire

    – Armenian media quote the press service of the President of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    The first negotiations are scheduled for tomorrow in the city of Yevlakh between Baku and Stepanakert on the conditions for the reintegration of Artsakh.

    https://topcor-ru.translate.goog/39462-armija-nagornogo-karabaha-zajavila-o-kapituljacii.html?utm_source=topwar.ru&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Sep 20, 2023 1:23 pm

    franco wrote:Through the mediation of the command of the Russian peacekeeping contingent stationed in Nagorno-Karabakh, an agreement was reached on a ceasefire from 13:00 today. In fact, all the conditions of the Azerbaijani side regarding the complete surrender of Armenian forces in the unrecognized Republic of Artsakh have been accepted.

    Under the terms of the agreements, Armenia withdraws the remaining units of its army from the territory of Karabakh along with military equipment . The NKR defense forces are completely disarmed and disbanded.

    Over the course of two days of stubborn fighting, units of the Armed Forces of Artsakh heroically defended themselves against an enemy who was several times superior in manpower and military equipment, inflicting the greatest losses on him. Unfortunately, the Artsakh side also suffered losses and wounded, and in some areas the enemy managed to break through to the combat positions of the Defense Army and take control of a number of heights and strategic road junctions. In the current situation, the actions of the international community towards ending the war and resolving the situation are insufficient. Taking all this into account, the authorities of the Republic of Artsakh accept the proposal of the command of the Russian peacekeeping mission regarding a ceasefire

    – Armenian media quote the press service of the President of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    The first negotiations are scheduled for tomorrow in the city of Yevlakh between Baku and Stepanakert on the conditions for the reintegration of Artsakh.

    https://topcor-ru.translate.goog/39462-armija-nagornogo-karabaha-zajavila-o-kapituljacii.html?utm_source=topwar.ru&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    Da fuq?

    Is Russia intent on kissing its own ass goodbye in the region?
    Why get involved at all if all you can do is mediate a humiliating deal and with you having to leave in 2 years anyway?
    Better have let Pashinyan and his US patrons to it.

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    franco
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    Post  franco Wed Sep 20, 2023 3:57 pm

    Not sure what strategic value for Russia here. For 200 plus years Russia has been protecting Christian Armenian's from Turkish, Azerbaijan and Iranian Moslem's. Obviously the Armenians have been corrupted into thinking the West will protect them instead. If they want Russia out then certainly better use can be found for the 9,000 military and border guards plus the 2,000 peacekeepers there now. And yes I realize that about half of those 9,000 are ethnic Armenians serving in the Russian Forces. They can stay or go, their choice.

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    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Wed Sep 20, 2023 5:19 pm

    I am more concern about the fate of Artsakh people. Now they no longer have any effective mean to resist if Azeri government want to execute an ethnic cleansing or forced assimilation. Which is, on my belief, is likely to happen.

    Politicians are corrupted, but it is the Artsakh people who took up arms and sacrifice blood and lives. They do not deserve such fate.

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Sep 20, 2023 7:31 pm

    There is a source that claims that half the Artsakh rep. garrison of 2500 fighters was killed or wounded in the last 48 of hours of the fighting, with about 300-500 Azeri casualties but that the Azeris had +60k troops engaged. Huge amounts of drones and precision munitions. While Pashinyan was washing his hands of the affair and didn't involve Armenia in any way.

    Well, just what is said. If true then it explains why the capitulation was so quick.

    Armenia will not be burdened by Nagorno-Karabakh anymore. Pashinyan will face criticism, but hold on. Armenia will join NATO.
    And once Azerbaijan 'reintegrates' Nagorno-Karabakh, it will have no more territorial issues and will move to join NATO too. And Turkey will very much encourage it to do so, so as to have another ally within the organization. You better believe it

    Master plan by Russia and Iran right here What a Face

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    Post  Hole Wed Sep 20, 2023 9:51 pm

    Turkey doesn´t want NATO (= Americans) there.

    And what should Russia and/or Iran do when the Armenians can´t get their ass of the couch?
    They "elected" a western puppet and half of the population always blaims Russia for all their own faults.
    They let this shit happen time and again so let them have it.

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    Post  franco Wed Sep 20, 2023 10:55 pm

    The Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan expressed condolences to Russia in connection with the death of Russian peacekeepers in Karabakh. This was stated in a message on the department’s website on Wednesday, September 20.

    “We express regret about what happened, we offer deep condolences to the leadership of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the command of the Russian peacekeeping contingent, the families and loved ones of the fallen servicemen,” the Ministry of Defense wrote.

    The message also mentions that in order to investigate the circumstances of what happened on the spot, the investigative authorities of Azerbaijan and Russia are currently working together.

    Earlier that day, a car carrying military personnel from the Russian peacekeeping contingent came under fire in the area of ​​the village of Dzhanyatag . The soldiers in the car died. The official representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Maria Zakharova, said that the dead Russian soldiers took the blow to ensure peace in the region.

    At the same time, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported that since the beginning of hostilities in the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, Russian peacekeepers managed to save 3,154 people , 1,428 of them children. It was also reported that residents of the Mardakert, Martuni and Askeran regions were evacuated, and they were now provided with places to rest and food.

    On September 19, the Azerbaijani Ministry of Defense announced the start of “anti-terrorist measures” of a local nature in Nagorno-Karabakh. The Azerbaijani Foreign Ministry stated that the only path to peace in the region is the complete withdrawal of Armenian military personnel from Nagorno-Karabakh.

    On September 20, the Nagorno-Karabakh authorities announced a unilateral ceasefire . The parties announced a complete cessation of hostilities from 13:00. The Russian Ministry of Defense confirmed this agreement. A meeting of representatives of the local Armenian population and the central authorities of Azerbaijan is planned for September 21.

    Relations between Azerbaijan and Armenia deteriorated against the backdrop of disputed ownership of Nagorno-Karabakh, which in 1988 declared secession from the Azerbaijani SSR. During the military conflict of 1992–1994, Baku lost control over the region.

    https://iz-ru.translate.goog/1577220/2023-09-20/minoborony-azerbaidzhana-vyrazilo-soboleznovaniia-rf-v-sviazi-s-gibeliu-mirotvortcev?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:13 am

    Well at least they didn't send them out on purpose to die and use the incident to force a ceasefire

    Like they did last time by sending a Russian Mi-8 into Azeri airspace

    Still the cherry on top though. Accomplish nothing and have a few of your men killed by the aggressor in the situation for your troubles.

    The Armenians won't thank Russia for 'saving its people' while the Azeris will still carry on morally supporting the Ukraine.
    Fantastic.

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:34 am


    Jesus Christ, just cut them loose already

    They all want you gone anyway and you don't even get a thank you plus even Armenians are taking orders from Turks now

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    Post  mnztr Thu Sep 21, 2023 1:09 am

    The Armenians in NK should go to Yerevan and deal with that idiot themselves. He sold them down the river. Now Russia should cut them lose for wasting Russia time with absurd policy decisions

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    Post  Broski Thu Sep 21, 2023 3:14 am

    Armenia will not be burdened by Nagorno-Karabakh anymore. Pashinyan will face criticism, but hold on. Armenia will join NATO.
    And once Azerbaijan 'reintegrates' Nagorno-Karabakh, it will have no more territorial issues and will move to join NATO too. And Turkey will very much encourage it to do so, so as to have another ally within the organization. You better believe it

    Still the cherry on top though. Accomplish nothing and have a few of your men killed by the aggressor in the situation for your troubles.

    The Armenians won't thank Russia for 'saving its people' while the Azeris will still carry on morally supporting the Ukraine.
    Fantastic.

    Lots of criticism about how Russia is handling NK but what are their other options? Is Russia supposed to bomb and kill Azerbaijan's military forces in defense of territory recognized under international law as Azerbaijan?

    The alternative to this negotiated ceasefire is literally letting the Azeris genocide what's left of the ethnic armenians in NK that were abandoned by Pashinyan's government, nobody was coming to save them. As for Azerbaijan joining NATO, if you think Iran is going to allow Azerbaijan to join NATO and give the US(and Israel by Proxy) access to the Caspian sea then you haven't been paying attention.

    Also, how is Armenia going to join NATO without Turkey's approval? Lots of chickensh*t Doomer squawking without a basic understanding of the geopolitical situation in the Caucasus.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 21, 2023 7:33 am

    Also, how is Armenia going to join NATO without Turkey's approval? Lots of chickensh*t Doomer squawking without a basic understanding of the geopolitical situation in the Caucasus.

    Interesting that Armenia has lost without seeming to fight itself, but it Russia is at fault.

    This map shows the region:

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] - Page 35 Caucas10

    So we are talking about Armenia with or without NK having a tenuous corridor to Iran and no connection to Russia or the Caspian Sea might turn to America or HATO.

    I would ask what difference that makes to Russia. Azerbaijan occupying or not occupying NK makes little difference to Armenia if they do not claim the land as Armenian or as an independent autonomy. If they wont help then what is Russia to do?

    NK and Armenia are already cut off from Russia and the Caspian Sea and Armenia and NK and Azerbaijan joining HATO or Turkey really only changes things for Iran, but I rather suspect the west wants to protect Azerbaijan and destroy Armenia so they can pump oil from the Caspian Sea and Caspian Sea states like the Stans to Turkey and to Europe.... but the conflict in NK and Russian peace keepers and of course Armenia are in their way.

    It is actually quite a huge deal for the west... they stopped implementation of the CFE treaty because of Russian troops deployed in South Ossetia and Abkhazia in what they considered to be Georgia, these Russian troops in NK, and of course the Russian troops in Moldova in Transnitria.

    Well now it looks like they got NK and probably therefore also Russian peacekeepers will have no real reason to stay, but then Azerbaijan still needs to cross Armenian territory with their pipes... but they already do don't they?

    Most of Azerbaijans income comes from oil and gas exports which would make them rather easy to defeat in a open and fair conflict... blow up their oil and gas storage and infrastructure and they will be broke and the west will have no need for them.

    Don't really understand what is actually going on because there is obviously a lot going on behind the scenes.

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    Post  lancelot Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:36 am

    GarryB wrote:NK and Armenia are already cut off from Russia and the Caspian Sea and Armenia and NK and Azerbaijan joining HATO or Turkey really only changes things for Iran, but I rather suspect the west wants to protect Azerbaijan and destroy Armenia so they can pump oil from the Caspian Sea and Caspian Sea states like the Stans to Turkey and to Europe.... but the conflict in NK and Russian peace keepers and of course Armenia are in their way.
    Russia holding Armenia in its orbit is pointless even in that case. There is a pipeline from Azerbaijan to Turkey via Georgia already. I think this is just Azerbaijan and the Turks wanting to cut out the middleman.

    Other than purely sentimental reasons, the thing is the cold hard calculus for Russia means there is little point in bothering. Particularly when the Armenians won't even defend themselves.

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