Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+22
Sujoy
Begome
GarryB
nomadski
thegopnik
Vann7
nero
Tsavo Lion
Admin
jhelb
Regular
starman
Firebird
Walther von Oldenburg
George1
Book.
Mike E
collegeboy16
Werewolf
kvs
flamming_python
Deep Throat
26 posters

    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion


    Posts : 5728
    Points : 5716
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life - Page 29 Empty Re: UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:29 pm

    When we have bases on Moon & Mars, the system of gov will change to manage them. Then the ETs will make their presence known there even more, for all to see.
    starman
    starman


    Posts : 627
    Points : 625
    Join date : 2016-08-10

    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life - Page 29 Empty Re: UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Post  starman Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:52 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:When we have bases on Moon & Mars, the system of gov will change to manage them.

    Smile We won't have bases on the moon or Mars until after the democratic system ends. Generally the electorate doesn't want its tax money spent on costly ventures in space. It wants money spent on social programs of direct and immediate benefit.

    Then the ETs will make their presence known there even more, for all to see.

    As The Alien Grand Design predicts, they won't appear openly nor be disclosed until there's an ideological volte face, around 2050-2100.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion


    Posts : 5728
    Points : 5716
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life - Page 29 Empty Re: UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:15 pm

    Russia & China will go to the Moon soon, & the US, EU, India & Japan will have no choice but to do the same. Recall that the USSR failed in landing men there, but still sent the Lunokhod rover for sample returns.
    Besides, commercial exploration & exploitation will not be stopped by the US Gov. & will need to be regulated.
    The Mars manned missions will follow the Lunar "lessons learned" there.
    starman
    starman


    Posts : 627
    Points : 625
    Join date : 2016-08-10

    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life - Page 29 Empty Re: UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Post  starman Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:20 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Russia & China will go to the Moon soon, & the US, EU, India & Japan will have no choice but to do the same.

    I don't know if Russia has the resources to establish a base or even land cosmonauts on the moon. The Chinese may do the latter but dunno about a permanent base. That would be really costly, though an authoritarian system would have the advantage in such an endeavor.


    Recall that the USSR failed in landing men there, but still sent the Lunokhod rover for sample returns.

    The USSR never attempted to land men on the moon. Compared to Lunokhod it was too costly, or too risky owing to inferior technology. But while the US had enough wealth its democratic government ensured there was no sustained program. Same issue prevails of course.



    The Mars manned missions will follow the Lunar "lessons learned" there.

    I'm skeptical such a costly effort will be politically possible for the US.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion


    Posts : 5728
    Points : 5716
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life - Page 29 Empty Re: UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:14 pm

    The RF & PRC will go to the Moon together to establish & run a base there.
    The United States is working on its own ambitious moon push with NASA's Artemis program. If all goes according to plan, Artemis will send astronauts to the lunar surface in the mid-2020s and establish a long-term, sustainable human presence on and around the moon by the end of the decade. NASA hopes that such work will help it get astronauts to Mars in the 2030s, agency officials have said.
    NASA isn't going it alone with Artemis. The agency has inked deals with numerous partners in the private sector, and eight other nations have signed the Artemis Accords, clearing the way for their participation in the program. (A ninth country, Brazil, has indicated that it intends to sign the Accords as well.)

    Btw, Chinese & Brazilians were more open about the UFOs since their own incidents.

    The USSR had cosmonauts selected for the trip to beat the Americans there, but their Moon rocket failed, so they got out of the race after the time run out.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2021-06-24/the-us-is-about-to-change-the-way-the-world-thinks-about-ufos
    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 656
    Points : 658
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life - Page 29 Empty Re: UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Post  lancelot Sun Dec 26, 2021 9:30 pm

    starman wrote:The USSR never attempted to land men on the moon. Compared to Lunokhod it was too costly, or too risky owing to inferior technology. But while the US had enough wealth its democratic government ensured there was no sustained program. Same issue prevails of course.

    I guess you never heard of the N-1 rocket.

    The Soviet lunar program was only funded way too late. There were at least three different lunar launcher proposals (Korolev, Chelomei, Yangel) all competing for limited resources. Eventually Korolev's proposal was accepted but the leading rocket engine designer in the USSR, Glushko, proved unable/unwilling to design the rocket engines Korolev had in his original N-1 launcher design. Korolev eventually went to Kuznetsov to design the engines. Kuznetsov had no experience designing rocket engines before that. Then Korolev died in the middle of the N-1 project and his replacement, Mishin, proved quite incapable. Then the state provided no funding to make a test stand for the first stage. This meant they had to test the rocket in actual flight. During one of the launch tests, the rocket exploded just after takeoff, and blew up all over the launch pad causing even more delays. They never got the launcher to work properly and it eventually was cancelled after the US already had went to the Moon.

    Compare this with the US which started the super heavy launcher effort much earlier, had prior experience with LOX/LH2 engines because of the Suntan project, did not have their designer die in the middle of the project, and only had a single rocket effort where all the funding was poured into. Glushko much later eventually designed what became the Energia rocket in the late 1970s and it basically had the engine technology Korolev wanted in the lunar rocket.

    GarryB and kvs like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 32248
    Points : 32776
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life - Page 29 Empty Re: UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:00 am

    I don't know if Russia has the resources to establish a base or even land cosmonauts on the moon.

    If their nuclear powered tug works then a good test would be taking material to the Moon... they could test things like constructing bases on another body without having to worry about earth being too far away to provide any help if something goes wrong... they might be able to launch a self contained module for human survivors to sit in and wait for help to be sent on the moon if contingencies for sending help are put in place they might only need to wait a week or two... but such a thing would not be practical on Mars for instance.

    The USSR never attempted to land men on the moon. Compared to Lunokhod it was too costly, or too risky owing to inferior technology. But while the US had enough wealth its democratic government ensured there was no sustained program. Same issue prevails of course.

    Interesting you think that... the Soviet Rockets were better and their space suits were far superior too... exactly what technology was inferior at the time?

    If the US had delayed their launch a month or two it might have been Cosmonauts on the moon first.... it really was that close.

    Of course it is a risky business so it could just as easily have been Cosmonauts dead too.... sending people to the moon was more about getting some ego and bragging rights back after failing to win the real space race of getting a satellite in to earth orbit and the first man in orbit... etc etc.

    I'm skeptical such a costly effort will be politically possible for the US.

    As long as they can continue to print new money with no consequences for themselves they can afford anything they please... but that is not going to last forever and the more they abuse it with spending it on BS the sooner the day will come when their money is worth nothing.

    Compare this with the US which started the super heavy launcher effort much earlier, had prior experience with LOX/LH2 engines because of the Suntan project, did not have their designer die in the middle of the project, and only had a single rocket effort where all the funding was poured into. Glushko much later eventually designed what became the Energia rocket in the late 1970s and it basically had the engine technology Korolev wanted in the lunar rocket.

    Don't forget the Saturn V was a Nazi rocket designed by German Nazis, who went from designing super weapons for Hitler to kill allied soldiers and take over the world, to designing a Moon rocket so the US could claim superiority and ownership of the world...
    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 656
    Points : 658
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life - Page 29 Empty Re: UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Post  lancelot Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:30 am

    GarryB wrote:Interesting you think that... the Soviet Rockets were better and their space suits were far superior too... exactly what technology was inferior at the time?

    If the US had delayed their launch a month or two it might have been Cosmonauts on the moon first.... it really was that close.

    Of course it is a risky business so it could just as easily have been Cosmonauts dead too.... sending people to the moon was more about getting some ego and bragging rights back after failing to win the real space race of getting a satellite in to earth orbit and the first man in orbit... etc etc.

    There was just no way the Soviets could have landed a crew on the Moon first given what happened. I think the most viable mission they could have made was a manned lunar fly-by mission. Not a landing. It is just barely possible to do a lunar fly-by with a Proton rocket (which was available) and a trimmed down Soyuz capsule. There was even a proposed project to do it. But Proton was still unreliable back then and putting a manned crew on one was risky to say the least. After what happened with the Soyuz-1 capsule there was little chance they would risk something like that.

    Like you said the space suits weren't a problem and were more advanced than what the US had at the time.

    The US had a head start on LOX/LH2 technology and they started the whole effort much sooner. You could say the Soviet Union only had a rocket comparable in performance to the Saturn V when Energia came out. Energia had much more modern propulsion technology though, more modern than the Shuttle's even. So there is like a generational gap. The Soviets spent most of their resources on the hypergolic rockets because those had military applications. Proton was initially planned to be a nuclear lobbing missile. R-36 is also a nuclear carrier missile.

    kvs likes this post

    starman
    starman


    Posts : 627
    Points : 625
    Join date : 2016-08-10

    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life - Page 29 Empty Re: UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Post  starman Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:53 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    [i]The United States is working on its own ambitious moon push with NASA's Artemis program. If all goes according to plan, Artemis will send astronauts to the lunar surface in the mid-2020s and establish a long-term, sustainable human presence on and around the moon by the end of the decade. NASA hopes that such work will help it get astronauts to Mars in the 2030s, agency officials have said.

    I'm skeptical the US will pull it off, even with foreign help, but we'll see.


    Btw, Chinese and Brazilians were more open about the UFOs


    South American countries including Brazil have had their share of interesting cases, and then some.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion


    Posts : 5728
    Points : 5716
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life - Page 29 Empty Re: UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:19 pm



    https://youtu.be/a7Za2sNDjuM
    starman
    starman


    Posts : 627
    Points : 625
    Join date : 2016-08-10

    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life - Page 29 Empty Re: UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Post  starman Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:58 am

    I'd be more impressed if the discovery was long before 1944, or before the late 19th century when Triceratops and other dinosaurs were discovered and named.

    Sponsored content


    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life - Page 29 Empty Re: UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:44 am