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    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    starman
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    Post  starman Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:37 am

    Mir wrote:
    You have nothing else but your own "believe" to support what you're saying.

    The search for life is the basis of much of what NASA does. Any spacefaring civilization would be curious to see if anyone else is out there; if there's potential competition or danger.

    BUT having said that - considering the size of the universe(s) - mathematically there may well be billions and billions of planets out there capable of supporting advanced life.

    Sure, and even more if colonization and terraforming were underway.


    If you just look at the Milky Way that forms part of our galaxy there are between 100-400 billion stars in that area alone - each with the distinct possibility of its own planetary system.

    Well, most Population II systems may lack rocky planets.
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    Post  starman Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:50 am

    GarryB wrote:
    But irrespective of what you believe, either life is normal and plentiful but getting to the state where they can start to move through the universe is rare,

    I don't see why, unless most habitable planets have stronger gravity. It's possible for a planet to be habitable with only about half our gravity.

    or life is super rare and we are the only ones in this universe, because of the size of the  universe and the fact that it is expanding, some places will be moving away from us faster than we could hope to travel any time soon…

    That doesn't apply to our own galaxy or local group. Galaxies farther away may be inaccessible, but I'd imagine our own galaxy will keep us busy for some time. Wink


    Perhaps current sightings of what are described as being aliens or alien spaceships are us from our own future trying to get back here or to solve problems…

    There's scant evidence UFOs and ETs have solved problems--not ours anyway. Occasionally contactees or abductees report alien warnings about the environment but our problems are, evidently, our responsibility. They never seemed to actually do anything. Or, if they're trying to come back here I don't see why they haven't succeeded after decades or more or where they're living now if they have.  In any event, time travelers are far from the most parsimonious solution. Some abductees btw report being taken on cosmic tours...
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    Post  Mir Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:16 pm

    starman wrote:
    The search for life is the basis of much of what NASA does. Any spacefaring civilization would be curious to see if anyone else is out there; if there's potential competition or danger.

    Absolutely we are all very curious on "what's out there". The unfortunate reality is NASA have so far only just made it out of bed - it's still a very very long way to the moon! Laughing

    [quote]Sure, and even more if colonization and terraforming were underway.[quote]

    In our lifetime it will just remain another...scam.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 17, 2022 2:27 am

    There's scant evidence UFOs and ETs have solved problems--not ours anyway.

    But we haven't seen our own future so how can we be sure we even know what the real problems are?

    Lots of BS about climate change, but global temperatures change with time... that is normal... in fact AFAIK we are supposed to be approaching a mini ice age, but the increased levels of fossil fuel consumption has boosted Carbon content of the atmosphere to levels that might actually save us from an ice age that could have been more devastating than the increase in temperatures they seem so worried about now.

    Occasionally contactees or abductees report alien warnings about the environment but our problems are, evidently, our responsibility.

    If we assume we are just as selfish and self centred in the future as we are now, the rich and powerful that can access time travel technology might be as likely to be using it to sabotage rival rich families by going back to one of their distant ancestors and screwing with them to make them appear mad or incompetent.

    Maybe they want DNA samples from people not on record in the future to commit crimes in the future... we have no idea...

    The perfect crime... find an alcoholic with no kids... pretend to be an alien and take some DNA and head back to the future... when the person talks about it they are ostricised making it unlikely for their DNA line to continue, so you are in the future with a DNA line that died out centuries ago so you can commit crimes and there is no record of the DNA you leave behind in any database... almost like someone now using neanderthal DNA to leave at the scene of a crime.
    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:43 am

    Yeah I agree with Starman the future humans stuff doesnt seem correct. I think the arrow of time is locked in one direction for mortals.

    But another thing Starman mentioned is what unnerves me about the phenomenology. You will never find concrete evidence of a very serious kind, and these beings never do anything of real import when they do reveal themselves. I believe that some of these events are happening. But more and more I think it is all bad. Like I mean really bad. I'm talking pure, preternatural evil. These beings are never a help. Leave people terrified, bewildered, confused, awed, stupefied and the stories given are very disturbing. When you pour thru them you find they ultimately make little to no sense. They show us only what they want us to see and appear only how they want us to see them.

    And there is another thing. Because of some personal experiences of one of my family members I only fairly recently found out about, I really started digging into human trafficking and ritual abuse. In fact the ufo stuff I'm not super interested in and only got into it a bit as an aside to what I was really trying to find out. The thing is the reality of ritual abuse and pedophile rings is so real and so horrific in scope that it makes the Qanon pizzagate stuff look tame. I only dug into it in earnest after finding some of my father's papers and after this stumbling upon the Dutroux affair and franklin coverup. From there it got worse and worse. We have definitive proof of elite pedophile rings involving at least two generations in time scale and it is supranational in scope. Massive,  absolutely massive. After Dutroux affair it was the finders, then Casa Pia, then Kincora, then the Westminster pedo dossier, etc...

    At the darkest corners of this you will hear stories of victims concerning mind control programs. It gets absolutely bizarre. The problem is that many of these victims have described the same perpetrators, locations, times, and events across many of these scandals I've mentioned. Now this is largely circumstantial evidence but it is enough to take very, very seriously their claims of mind control programs and satanism and all the other bizarre stuff. Also, a few of the victims discuss events with these alien entities.

    I have an idea of what it all means but it is just my personal opinion. What little I do know is that reality is stranger than fiction and that real, embodied evil exists. For all those who do study the alien/ufo phenomenology I suggest delving into the scandals and coverups I listed above. There are others too that are so strange I dont know what to make of them. There is as usual a whole lot of bullshit as well. Sometimes the bullshit also has serious kernels of truth. For example the show Stranger Things? Thry just lifted the story from descriptions of the so-called Montauk Project. Crazy stuff in all that. A lot of it is wacky nonsense but disturbingly there are some victims that are tied to legit horrors I previously described who have discussed places and events tied to the Montauk Project. If you have seen the show you know it involves aliens and the mind control programs.

    Sorry for the rambling screed. Dont have many to talk to about this stuff and it felt related. Also I am kinda in a quest to get others to wake up to the stuff I and others know. This is a good place to start and involved one of the most famous of the scandals, the Dutroux affair. Warning, it is very, very disturbing reading.


    https://web.archive.org/web/20080731164037/www.isgp.eu/dutroux/Belgian_X_dossiers_of_the_Dutroux_affair.htm
    Edit: had to clear something up
    starman
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    Post  starman Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:40 am

    GarryB wrote:
    But we haven't seen our own future so how can we be sure we even know what the real problems are?

    Among other things, anthropogenic global warming may cause sea levels to rise, flooding coastal communities.

    Lots of BS about climate change, but global temperatures change with time... that is normal... in fact AFAIK we are supposed to be approaching a mini ice age, but the increased levels of fossil fuel consumption has boosted Carbon content of the atmosphere to levels that might actually save us from an ice age that could have been more devastating than the increase in temperatures they seem so worried about now.

    From what I've read, there's a scientific near-consensus that global warming is real and manmade. Just because increased CO2 output may help prevent a future ice age doesn't mean we should be indifferent to the possible consequences of global warming in the short term. We can curtail greenhouse emissions now and later increase them if need be.

    …. the rich and powerful that can access time travel technology might be as likely to be using it….

    Rich people look like grays? Smile ET makes much better sense than time travelers because UFOs are flying craft. You wouldn't need flying craft to travel across time, just within our world, or universe.
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    Post  starman Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:47 am

    TMA1 wrote:Yeah I agree with Starman the future humans stuff doesnt seem correct. I think the arrow of time is locked in one direction for mortals.

    Sure. Smile

    But another thing Starman mentioned is what unnerves me about the phenomenology. You will never find concrete evidence of a very serious kind, and these beings never do anything of real import when they do reveal themselves. I believe that some of these events are happening. But more and more I think it is all bad. Like I mean really bad. I'm talking pure, preternatural evil. These beings are never a help. Leave people terrified, bewildered…..

    Well, not invariably. Generally ETs want us to think they're aloof and enemies. But there are a number of reports of altruistic behavior--healings for example. It's all part of a complex plan. While it seems impossibly hard to make sense of the phenomenon, at least one work, The Alien Grand Design seems to have done it.

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    Post  nomadski Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:46 am



    My design for aliens is not grand . It is simple . How dare they abduct people and do reproductive experiments on them ! No seriously , I would f******g kill them .


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U5eI9h-bVSQ


    LOL . Needs salad .



    starman
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    Post  starman Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:07 am

    nomadski wrote:My design for aliens is not grand . It is simple . How dare they abduct people and do reproductive experiments on them ! No seriously , I would f******g kill them .

    Smile Unfortunately ETs are still so far ahead resistance is futile…although aliens want us to think we can effectively resist. It's all part of the longterm plan, described at length in The Alien Grand Design.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:30 pm

    What if there r more than 1 alien civilizations involved? Some may be neutral, others hostile or friendly. Ancient legends from all over the planet tell of gods & messengers coming & teaching us agriculture, medicine & sciences. Mahabharata & Sumerian texts talk about Vimanas & nuclear war waged long ago. The Bible tells about Elija taken for ride to see the Earth & the Moon from space before he is taken back with them forever.
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    Post  starman Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:31 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:What if there r more than 1 alien civilizations involved? Some may be neutral, others hostile or friendly.

    This is a fairy common view in UFOlogy but, as The Alien Grand Design shows, it's just another misleading aspect of the phenomenon--just another aspect of conditioning to prepare us for the denouement of the ET plan. It's a long story…..but for now I'll say this. For such a supposedly heterogeneous bunch of ETs, there sure is consistency of policy……Which alien race has revealed itself openly, or launched a major attack (well in advance of the timetable of the AGD?).


    Ancient legends from all over the planet tell of gods & messengers coming & teaching us agriculture, medicine & sciences. Mahabharata & Sumerian texts talk about Vimanas & nuclear war waged long ago. The Bible tells about Elija taken for ride to see the Earth & the Moon from space before he is taken back with them forever.

    There might be some truth in that but basically I think people today often don't credit the ancients with having much--if any--imagination.

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    Post  nomadski Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:06 am



    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/22/world/webb-telescope-distant-planet-clouds-scn/index.html


    So the JWT , can not observe planets near their star , in the habitable zone , because their light is dim and gets mixed up with the star itself ! What a disappointment ! It looks like I am not going to get to know , if ET life exists on distant planet , before I die .

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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:00 am

    https://youtu.be/dnFRp4Hyz0c https://youtu.be/CFKDRArS-HM ;

    https://youtu.be/KKjv_DoyE48 ; https://youtu.be/QfcrwDswM1I ;

    https://youtu.be/XhcM9fnObB4 https://youtu.be/pXO2BlONUFE

    https://youtu.be/2KHVJiUwoYI https://youtu.be/j2kzDJX7CRU

    https://youtu.be/T9bayYLTNuI https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3851099-forget-chinas-spy-balloon-military-ufo-incidents-are-far-more-intriguing/ https://youtu.be/pTGn8cmfwxo

    https://youtu.be/zkmbqMjTGKM https://youtu.be/SfgSkVetbpo

    https://youtu.be/YNzLsDJ_95g https://youtu.be/qKpRZQ9aMiE?t=1111 it says the craft (not the bodies!) was carbon dated- which is impossible; if they really crashed there, other aliens would've rescued them & their craft, as there were not many locals or USAF/police/park rangers then to interfere with that; if not, any craft/debris would be cut up & salvaged by the natives for making tools, crafts, & talismans. Besides, if this matter was/is top secret, no outsider would be shown any relevant document; otherwise, those persons leaking it would've been afraid of prosecution- remember, it all supposedly happened during the Cold War; no1 so far surfaced to claim to be that unnamed scientist or a team member- no date is given of the alleged retrieval of that UFO. So, it looks like a hoax to me.

    https://exoplanets.nasa.gov/news/1719/discovery-alert-two-nearby-worlds-might-be-habitable/

    https://news.yahoo.com/real-ufo-problem-not-balloons-093000046.html
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    Post  starman Tue May 16, 2023 11:14 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:... if they really crashed there, other aliens would've rescued them & their craft….

    Unless the aliens actually planned a crash. This ancient case may be phony but The Alien Grand Design has a nice take on alien motives in '47.

    Besides, if this matter was/is top secret, no outsider would be shown any relevant document; otherwise, those persons leaking it would've been afraid of prosecution

    Unless of course, it's misinformation disseminated purposefully to conceal real secrets.

    So, it looks like a hoax to me.

    One of many false crash retrieval stories deliberately leaked since the '70s or earlier.
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    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life - Page 30 Empty Kalahari crash, CE5

    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:52 pm





    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Jun 21, 2023 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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    Post  starman Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:31 am

    The Kalahari crash has been dismissed as a hoax, one of many over the years.
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    Post  nomadski Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:37 pm

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66786611


    Now suppose , just suppose that this planet harbours primitive single cell life . What does this imply for the probability of intelligent life ? Now we know the value of variables in the equation for : Number of stars that have planets . Number with a planet in the Goldilocks zone . Number with primitive life ! What does Drake equation tell us ? Care to guess or work it out ?


    https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/drake-equation
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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 13, 2023 6:22 am

    There is a British show about space by Brian Cox and he talks about the Drake equation and actually has a chat to Drake about it, and they talk about the equation and what recent discoveries about life and the number of planets there actually are and he talked about how that effected the result... because when the equation was created most of the numbers you put in to the equation like the number of planets around stars was largely guess work, but now we know that life as we know it just really needs liquid water to be created and that we have found rather more planets around stars than we expected so the chances for life increase.

    The problem is distance and time... because of the enormous distances in space there might be civilisations out there we never find because they are accelerating away from us faster than any signal they emit might be detected by us... assuming we are even listening to the right things at the right time.

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    Post  kvs Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:46 pm

    The whole super-luminal space expansion is debatable even if there is some astrophysics consensus. We don't even have a real theory of gravity.
    GR is nothing more than an equation for a metric. There is no explanation how matter-energy "tells" space-time how to curve. It just "is". This
    is cute but not real science. There is a reason why quantum mechanics has still not been reconciled with GR and why there is the ludicrous
    cosmological constant problem. So I would take any claim about how photons get literally stretched (wavelength increase) because space-time
    is expanding as they fly through it with a ton of salt. If we had a theory where graviton-photon interaction was described, then maybe we
    could have some confidence in a particular explanation for the red shift.

    In my view, the real problem with detection of other civilizations in space is just the signal to noise ratio. This is linked to distance and I find the
    idea that something like SETI could find coherent signals to be a bit absurd. Sure, if there were such civilizations in a sphere with a moderate
    light-year radius. But even if they are still in our galaxy but on the far side from us, the amount of signal reaching us would be extremely small.
    We can catch the starlight because stars output stupendously more photons than any planetary emission. The only planets we can observe are
    the hot Jupiter types where a gas giant is orbiting very close to a star and is thus super-heated with enough secondary emission to be detectable.
    But no civilization living on a habitable planet will emit EM like hot Jupiters. I would argue that advanced civilization naturally reduce EM emissions
    through technological efficiency. Note how on Earth we went from over the air TV transmission to wired transmission through cable and then
    the internet. Over the air is now digital requiring less amplitude for the signal, and we did not experience a progressive increase in TV transmissions
    spanning the planet like we could have had.

    As for the existence of other advanced life and civilizations, it would be absurd if we were unique in the universe. The same physics (including
    chemistry) occurs everywhere with the corresponding ambient conditions. We have one periodic table of the elements and not different ones
    for different regions of the galaxy and over larger scales. It is now clear that Earth-like planets occur in huge quantities. I would go as far
    as to claim that advanced life would have similar characteristics to what we see on Earth. It would be cool if there was totally different
    intelligent life out there, but in reality it would form within similar dynamics as on Earth. This does not mean that all civilizations are derived from
    primate type creatures, but something like a planetary intelligence or giant space creatures is pretty much impossible.

    The likely reason we have not had any visitors from the stars is because of distance. It seems that faster than light travel is sci-fi fantasy, so
    a space-craft would have to travel for impractically long periods to reach us. Nobody goes on such trips for curiosity and they do not have to
    reach us to find refuge.



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    Post  nomadski Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:43 pm

    The Mexican parliament has displayed two" ET , " fossilized , thousand year old remains , and confirmed non-terrestrial DNA ! I need to get tourist visa quick , and to go see .LOL .



    https://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/1526220/%D9%81%DB%8C%D9%84%D9%85-%D8%B1%D9%88%D9%86%D9%85%D8%A7%DB%8C%DB%8C-%D8%A7%D8%B2-%D8%AC%D8%B3%D8%AF-%D9%81%D8%B3%DB%8C%D9%84-%D8%B4%D8%AF%D9%87-%D8%A2%D8%AF%D9%85-%D9%81%D8%B6%D8%A7%DB%8C%DB%8C-%D9%87%D8%A7-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D9%BE%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%84%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%86-%D9%85%DA%A9%D8%B2%DB%8C%DA%A9


    Octopus and Squid also have very complex DNA . Much more complex than human . Not related to any other organism on Earth . Must have landed on Meteor , a billion years ago .
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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 14, 2023 9:01 am

    Science has always been about weird ideas and concepts to try to explain all the evidence and old ideas get replaced by new ideas if they fit what we see better and allows us to predict things properly and test in any lab anywhere.
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    Post  kvs Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:27 am

    Unfortunately astrophysics is mostly dogma based on speculation. It is a case of not enough experimental lab work and observational
    measurements making sufficient constraint on the speculation to guide it in the right direction. Cosmology is a dressed up version of
    astrology.

    Whenever "established" views in astrophysics are presented as absolute fact it is pure cringe. There is no proof that the red shift is
    due to expansion of space-time. We do not even know if photon interaction with gravity leaves photon energy conserved. When
    two massive bodies interact via gravity they exert an influence on each other (supposedly not a force but a space-time curvature).
    But photons do not have a mass and it is fully possible that they interact with gravity asymmetrically. So photons traveling for
    billions of years through gravitational wells may very well be red shifted. No space-time expansion required.

    Another indication that space-time expansion is an ignorant projection on reality is that supposedly zero point quantum energy is
    infinitely increasing just because the volume of space-time is growing with time. As if we even have measurements of the zero point
    quantum noise and its energy. We just have mostly hand-waving about the virtual particle sea which supposedly modifies electro-dynamics
    (QED).

    In my view the fundamental property behind conservation of energy (or mass-energy) is conservation of information. No magic where
    information (virtual particles) appears without any constraint is plausible. Quantum noise attributed as the virtual particle sea makes more
    physical sense as perturbations in the EM fields permeating space. What are particles and what are "virtual particles". They look like
    different states of the same thing. Why are the virtual particles not completely different but claimed to be just like the persistent ones.
    That indicates that particles are quantum modes and there is some sort of potential barrier where such modes become persistent if it is
    crossed. We see creation of real particles out of "nothing" in particle accelerator experiments. Take an electron and a positron and smash
    them at high speed and you get a whole zoo of much more massive particles. This really only makes sense if the energy from the
    collision-annihilation boosted quantum modes from the "virtual" state to the persistent state.

    Anyway, my point is that the zero point noise must be conservative and cannot grow without bound just because space-time is expanding.
    This gets us to what the heck is space. Some coordinate system is not an answer. It has volume and it can be curved. So it must be
    a material even if it has nothing in common with "ether". Its expansion would be a transition and would have to be linked to the quantum
    fields that would be the origin of the virtual particle sea. If space-time is expanding, then the virtual particle sea is changing in density.

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    Post  nomadski Fri Sep 15, 2023 8:27 pm

    You are both missing the point . This UFO Hoo-Ha , the recent hearings in USA by NASA and some Brass ,  and now Mexican government , happen AT THE SAME TIME , as Hunter Biden court cases against him and indictment . This would have serious consequences for Biden and democrats election chances . Hence this sudden revelations , no doubt aided by the CIA deep state ! I think the Republicans , to protect Trump , should organise a news event confirming the existence of the Yeti . Distractions galore ! The American public's mind is primarily cultivated to be  concerned with : ( 1 ) Crime and gangsters ( 2 ) Ghosts ( 3 ) Aliens ( 4 ) Porn ( 5) Unsolved mysteries ( 6) The lives of the  rich and famous ( 7 ) Cryptid creatures . Get the picture ? It is all about the unseen and ghostly gangsters , who get mysteriously rich by doing killing and porn and are alienated from the public and lead a cryptid life !
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    Post  TMA1 Fri Sep 15, 2023 9:09 pm

    Now I am more upset and disturbed. Just found out recently one of the major places where studies were done for project OFTEN and offshoots was at Offutt afb. It confirms chilr victim testimony from multiple witnesses across many years who said they were driven to Offutt afb at night.

    These witnesses were involved in the pretty famous pedophile ring scandal of the region. The franklin coverup. Apparently weirdos in government who believed in goofy new age stuff wanted to try and weaponize it. Some very bad stuff went down that went beyond just that. They were trying to contact "non terrestrial intelligences from the astral plane". I shit you not. There is actual evidence to this. Project Stargate was one of the OFTEN offshoots. Many others. Really, really bad people were involved.

    I trust absolutely nothing of what these disclosure people say. If you look at the names and background of disclosure types it gets worse. There are massive, damning lies behind a lot of this. The actual scandals are silenced or mocked to oblivion. Blackmail, regime changes, experiments on humans and human trafficking, drug trafficking, arms trafficking, money laundering, pedophile rings, etc...

    To some here this might sound nuts. This is an order of magnitude worse than Epstein, and even the Epstein case has barely been revealed. You want proof of how bad this gets look deep into the Dutroux affair and franklin coverup.

    GarryB, kvs and nomadski like this post

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Sep 15, 2023 10:21 pm

    My impression is that we, the proles, get "science" that the elites care to give us while they keep the actual facts to themselves.   Exactly to weaponize it and to maintain
    their power.    The way that people who find new effects (e.g. the anti-gravity guy in Finland) are treated supports my view.   You don't burn people at the stake who are
    not important.   Nobody is going to go into the streets because of new physics findings.   But if the truth is free for everyone, then it deprives the depraved maggots
    running our lives of their chance to use it against us.

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