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84 posters

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

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    hoom

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    Post  hoom Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:50 am

    he splash looks like a something discarded during a launch...

    If it was shrapnel there would be a large area of much smaller splashes... that looks more like something has launched and has dropped a part like a booster fragment or part of a lining that held the missile straight in the tube.

    It might even be unrelated... an anti diver grenade being launched as part of the "test" or something
    Reasonable suggestions thumbsup
    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:28 am

    Neither spare parts nor assistance from Russia.
    The difference is, Russia is keen to overcome those issues, reopen the production, or jump ahead a generation if there is no point in respiration a dead elephant.
    The time worked well for Russia, and bad for Ukraine.

    The thing is that Kievs industry had most of its customers in Russia, but the reverse is not true, so when Russia is cut off from crucial parts then to meet the orders of the Russian military and for export orders it makes sense to develop their own alternative in the short term and a new generation replacement going forward.

    For Kiev, there is no domestic market for their products and only a small export potential which is not big enough to pay for upgrades and maintenance of existing facilities and resources let alone upgrades to make it competitive.

    The EU and US are not interested in funding the Ukrainian MIC... they have their own MICs to fund and support... in fact gifting the Ukraine western weapons and systems is actually making them dependent on the western MIC for the future.

    The Ukraine is being asset stripped and that includes all their soviet era MIC of any worth and when they are done there will be nothing left of value... not just because it is easy money, but also because it eliminates a potential rival... the EU and US don't want Antonov to get back on its feet and start making planes... An-70s would cut deep into the market for A-400Ms and late model C-130s, and for many jobs would cut in to C-17 sales too... it would cost western countries billions in orders so there is no chance of it happening.

    Reasonable suggestions

    Thanks for posting the video...

    When I first looked at it I was disappointed because the missile was the full width of the launch tube and thinking it was Redut and an S-350 missile, I thought there is no way they could fit the big missiles under those hatches... but looking at the control surfaces I realised that is Shtil-1, or vertically fired naval BUK, and then I just looked at it a couple of times thinking how pretty it looked and how clean the cold launch was... no mess, no loose pieces, no obvious gas like you would see with say an air gun blowing the missile out of the tube...

    Haven't seen a land based new BUK-M3 launch yet so this is the closest I have seen so far... thanks again for posting. Smile

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    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:38 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    kvs wrote:

    Also, I am sure that there are still a few engines around left over from the "bad old days".   But I have seen reports, which I can't find at the moment,
    where the refurbished tanks totally failed after leaving the "refurbishment line".


    They have been using post-soviet scrapyards for 3 decades now.
    Ukrainian armor depots were hit, burn and driven to death all over Africa.
    Assuming, that what is left, is not the best they had there, but the other Laughing
    When they were hit back with "sanctions", it turned out that they have faced just the same problems as Russia.
    Neither spare parts nor assistance from Russia.
    The difference is, Russia is keen to overcome those issues, reopen the production, or jump ahead a generation if there is no point in respiration a dead elephant.  
    The time worked well for Russia, and bad for Ukraine.

    Well, I hope they can manage to produce a few engines and gearboxes for India, otherwise Russia will not be able to deliver the ships and being payed.

    Of course, it would be interesting to know if it was possible to resuscitate Zorya in case of separation of Nikolaev from country 404, as a secondary production site (and repair facility) for marine and energy gas turbines and gearboxes (Maybe as Saturn subsidiary, even if Saturn does not produces naval gearboxes (for Russia that is Zvezda in Saint Petersburg).

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:31 am

    Russia now makes both engines so it is in their interests to be able to make the gearboxes to allow them to be used in various arrangements on different types of vessels...
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    hoom

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    Post  hoom Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:17 pm

    thinking how pretty it looked and how clean the cold launch was... no mess, no loose pieces, no obvious gas like you would see with say an air gun blowing the missile out of the tube...
    Its an interesting difference between Shtil-1 & 9M96:
    Shtil-1 comes out clean without much smoke & does a quick main-engine vector onto course while still going slow while the forces are low.
    9M96 comes out covered in black soot & uses side thrust from forward/mid (not sure exactly where?) to tip it over & stabilise onto course before the main engine fires.

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:24 pm

    Very nice piccie of the business end of one of the 11356s. Not sure which one, but does it really matter? Very Happy

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 37 Jrt8ff10

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:14 am

    9M96 comes out covered in black soot & uses side thrust from forward/mid (not sure exactly where?) to tip it over & stabilise onto course before the main engine fires

    Looks better when there is no smoke, but essentially the cold launch in itself is the key as most solid rocket motors explode on or just after launch so having it outside of the launcher when you fire up the solid rocket motor is a very good thing.

    The 9M96 has rings of solid rocket thrusters around the nose, just like the TOR does... it is used at launch to point the missile in the direction it needs to turn to head towards its target so the main engine doesn't waste thrust and energy accelerating the missile in a direction it should not be going, so it means more efficient use of solid fuel in the main rocket motor, but in both cases the side thruster rockets will also be used in the terminal phase of the intercept to shift the missile closer to the target in the last fraction of a second before impact just before the warhead is detonated... it might only shift the missile a metre or two closer but that will improve the effect of the warhead on target and might result in direct contact.

    Usually thrusters on both sides of the missile is used to first push the nose into the direction of the target and then the opposite side to stop the turn as the main motor accelerates the missile towards the target that it should now be pointing above... so that as the missile accelerates it does not need to waste energy turning left or right or raising the angle to gain altitude...

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