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    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:52 pm

    According to this link we might see 12ton intelligence UAV in air this year and during 2016 after 20 ton UCAV Smile

    So we have a timeframe  thumbsup 


    Company "Sukhoi" plans to raise up in the air newest multipurpose UAV

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 9 S2Jkpbk
    Flanky
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    Post  Flanky Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:24 pm

    Well i have been hearing about Zond for quite a long time.
    And other than models i have seen nothing.
    This alone is not evidence of absence but i guess engines are the problem, or perhaps constellation og communication sattelites?
    collegeboy16
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    Post  collegeboy16 Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:08 pm

    UAVs should be a priority- these arent just tools for murder- they are best used as eyes in the sky, like in searrch and retrievel after a natural disaster or border control.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:35 am

    Well i have been hearing about Zond for quite a long time.
    And other than models i have seen nothing.

    Making models is cheap and easy... building working UAVs is expensive... more expensive when there is no ready market for them.

    the Russian military has been talking about UAVs for decades but only over the last few years have actually spent real money on them.

    Now that there is real money there Russian aircraft design bureaus will be looking at the requirements and various weight classes and will be building new things.

    The US and Israeli UAVs and UCAVs didn't get built overnight either... they are on the end of long development chains that cost hundreds of millions of dollars invested and lots of mistakes and dead ends along the way.

    the Americans and Israelis are not idiots... if you could just design a final product and build it they would have done that years ago... as would the Russians.
    collegeboy16
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    Post  collegeboy16 Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:30 pm

    prolly problem is people are thinking UAVs are just RC planes on steroids and the opposite still being true, that UAVs are being built like full-blown aircraft. If the two can be made to meet at the middle can we say that the UAV situation is viewed properly.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:33 am

    With real aircraft you need lots of back up systems so that one system failing wont result in a loss of control and a crash.

    With a UAV you still need redundancy because there wont be a pilot there to re boot the systems or struggle with the controls and land an unflyable aircraft.
    Flanky
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    Post  Flanky Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:40 pm

    Well piloted or not piloted aircraft.... you need redundancy of systems either way.
    What however UAV does not need is pilot life support and safety systems.
    Anyway regarding Zond - i've seen reports about this UAV class back in 2006/2007.
    Thats a long time ago - even before the Georgian war when Russian generals have found out that they seriously need UAVs (finally).
    So i anticipate that there was work on the UAV done, but perhaps stopped?

    Many foreign weapons experts are quit amazed at the lack of Russian presence in this sphere.
    And im starting to be as well... Im myself very well aware that it is not easy to build UAV. If i remember correctly i used to have a big discussion in this topic with Garry. BUT... having absence for so long is plainly not very good. Chinese and UK are producing MALE and China even HALE UAV.
    There is no country that wouldn't need these UAVs more than Russia.
    Its vast unpopulated territory needs to be monitored in various ways and UAV platforms are the key.
    Monitoring foreign military movements and testing of new hardware is important as well.

    But i had also an idea... It is possible they already made thoose MALE models in secret.
    UCAV - they could still wait.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:25 pm

    What however UAV does not need is pilot life support and safety systems.

    It pretty much needs all the equipment a small plane needs and more... a little cessna does not need terrain avoidance equipment... you rely on the pilots skills to avoid flying into the ground, but a UAV like this with AESA antenna arrays will be very expensive so you don't want it crashing just because a pitot tube froze.

    You don't need helmets or ejection seats, though some method of ejecting payloads or expensive components for later recovery might actually be a useful thing.

    You don't need oxygen generation equipment or cockpit displays or controls, though if you did it would make development easier and quicker using a test pilot... the seat could be removed and the empty volume filled with a fuel bladder for operational missions.

    Anyway regarding Zond - i've seen reports about this UAV class back in 2006/2007.

    I saw pictures of models of the Typhoon in the mid 1980s when it was still called Eurofighter... these things take a lot of time and money... and there would be no money till after 2008 in Russia. Keep in mind that for every UAV prototype design we get to see they probably looked at hundreds from 30 different companies, plus they will have had other manned alternatives all fighting for funds as well... the M-17/M-55 and the Ka-31 both have battlefield management roles and would be competing for the same money.


    Many foreign weapons experts are quit amazed at the lack of Russian presence in this sphere.

    the problem is likely twofold... first the companies with the expertise and production facilities are currently busy producing manned aircraft to replace the existing obsolete fleet of manned aircraft, or upgrading existing models. Second I rather doubt the Russian military is 100% exactly sure of what they actually want. Experience with Israeli drones has probably given them some idea of what can be done, but I think you are ignoring some fundamental facts... they are world leaders in one field of unmanned recon vehicles... they are called satellites. Without GLONASS functioning fully any UAVs would be subject to the US military and as was also clearly shown in the conflict in Georgia they turned the civilian GPS signal off. Now that they are renewing their recon satellites and relay satellites then long range HALEs and MALEs make sense because if they can't relay the information they collect in real time then a satellite could be used instead.

    Chinese and UK are producing MALE and China even HALE UAV.

    Russia already has satellites for the long range recon role... that is not to say they don't need or can't use HALE or MALE UAVs, but that their requirements are not urgent as many of their requirements are much closer to home.

    Also they have made lots of developments in airships as well with antenna arrays and communications relays for mountainous or rugged areas... they even sold a few to China.

    But i had also an idea... It is possible they already made thoose MALE models in secret.
    UCAV - they could still wait.

    Almost every military event I see video footage of the use of smaller UAVs to monitor and record, and in military exercises the recon units use UAVs from dinner plate size and up...
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:25 pm

    Viktor wrote:According to this link we might see 12ton intelligence UAV in air this year and during 2016 after 20 ton UCAV Smile

    So we have a timeframe  thumbsup 


    Company "Sukhoi" plans to raise up in the air newest multipurpose UAV

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 9 S2Jkpbk


    Just saw this. Great news! Finally a serious step, a very serious one.
    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:35 am

    Possibly Al'tius-M.

    The AFAR compartment is labelled.

    What does "БО" stand for?

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 9 IAnC5uZ
    avatar
    Austin


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    Post  Austin Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:44 am

    Yesterday I saw some news on Medvedev Visit to Kazan describing UAV made for MOD on request ....didnt realise this was it.

    http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2014/03/25/280281.html


    For the Prime Minister also organized an exhibition of companies engaged in the production of aircraft. Medvedev drew particular attention to the UAV, developed by request of the Russian Defense Ministry to monitor the Arctic zone. The machine can operate autonomously to 48 hours and climbing to 10 thousand kilometers.

    I think they are taking the range of UAV as 10 Thousand Km.

    For the range and endurance of 48 hours this baby is in Global Hawk Category but with  Turboprop engine rather than Turbofan as in Global Hawk

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RQ-4_Global_Hawk
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:11 am

    Austin wrote:Yesterday I saw some news on Medvedev Visit to Kazan describing UAV made for MOD on request ....didnt realise this was it.

    http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2014/03/25/280281.html


    For the Prime Minister also organized an exhibition of companies engaged in the production of aircraft. Medvedev drew particular attention to the UAV, developed by request of the Russian Defense Ministry to monitor the Arctic zone. The machine can operate autonomously to 48 hours and climbing to 10 thousand kilometers.

    I think they are taking the range of UAV as 10 Thousand Km.

    For the range and endurance of 48 hours this baby is in Global Hawk Category but with  Turboprop engine rather than Turbofan as in Global Hawk

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RQ-4_Global_Hawk

    A prop engine makes rather more sense for a reconnaissance role due to the fact that the thermal signature on FLIR cameras will be smaller and prop engines are rather more stable at slower speeds and low altitudes than a turbofan jet engine, it would be better if it was a coaxial contra-rotating dual prop.
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    Post  Austin Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:10 am

    Video of UAV

    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:46 am

    And about the same from flightglobal

    PICTURES: Secret Russian UAV design revealed

    - 10 000 km range
    - AESA radar
    - 5 ton UAV

     thumbsup 
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    Post  Austin Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:56 am

    Sounds good , So does it have just Radar or even EO sensors.

    So know 3 UAV/UCAV under development

    5 T UAV
    1 T UAV
    20 T UCAV 


    ANy thing else ?
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:02 pm

    Austin wrote:Sounds good , So does it have just Radar or even EO sensors.

    So know 3 UAV/UCAV under development

    5 T UAV
    1 T UAV
    20 T UCAV 


    ANy thing else ?

    From my mp.net megapost series.. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?233668-In-Moldova-they-now-officially-speak-Romanian&p=6968235&viewfull=1#post6968235
    NOTE: you will have to go to the link to my post on mp.net if you want to see the pics or other links I posted, because they don't seem to copy right.

    Here's a list of the main perspective UAVs in development, no pics nor much information for most of them, but google them up maybe you'll find something

    Inokhodets/Иноходец - 1 ton class UAV, 400km range (Tranzas)
    Altyus-Ml/Альтиус - 5 ton class UAV, +800 km range (Sokol/Tranzas)
    Okhotnik-B and Okhotnik-U/Охотник-У - heavy 20 ton class jet-powered UCAVs, up to 800km range (MiG/Sukhoi)
    Gonschik/Гонщик - fast jet-powered UAV class (?), 400km range (MiG)
    Albatross/Альбатрос - helicopter UAV, 50km range (Kamov)
    Corsair/Корсар - short-range UAV, 50km range (Vega)
    Roller/Роллер - helicopter UAV, 50km range (Mil?)

    Here's a model of what might be Altyus-Ml https://servimg.com/image_preview...=25&u=17812518
    A model of what's believed to be Sokol's supersonic UAV project http://img3067.imagevenue.com/img.ph..._122_559lo.jpg
    There's also an unnamed project on the creation of a UCAV on the basis of the PAK-FA; so something like the beggining of a 6th generation aircraft I'd imagine although still a long way from it.

    Now as for current UAVs;

    http://missiles2go.ru/2012/11/13/uvs-tech-2012_1/ -
    http://missiles2go.ru/2012/11/13/uvs-tech-2012_2/ - Russian UAVs at the UVS-tech 2012 exhibition
    http://igorrgroup.blogspot.co.nz/201...vs-part-1.html - a slightly out of date summary of small man-launched UAVs and small helo UAVs mostly; among which we can see some innovations such as UAVs that fold out from something like an RPG tube (edit: it's a Smersh-launched one - the T90-11)
    http://roboair.ru/air-400x---carrier - nearly 2-metre wide crazy UAV complexes; they are launched from truck-trailer command-posts
    https://servimg.com/image_preview...209&u=15113927 - Dozor UAV variant
    https://servimg.com/image_preview...208&u=15113927 - Danem UAV
    http://www.network54.com/Forum/21183...?action=signup - Lutch UCAV

    Some recent UAV classes enterring service:

    http://lenta.ru/news/2012/10/09/uavs/ - Orlan-10 UAVs (< 100km range UAV class, up to 50 units)
    http://enics.ru/product?product_id=3 - Eleron-Z UAVs (34 are being bought)
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/658798.html - assembly of Israeli UAVs in Russia (OK, so they're not Russian ;P); 10 Searcher-2 and 27 Birdeye-400 complexes

    Also a couple UAV projects with the UAE.. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?233668-In-Moldova-they-now-officially-speak-Romanian&p=6972848&viewfull=1#post6972848

    There are two UAV-related projects with the UAE AFAIK. The first is the joint Russo-UAE venture on the creation of a helicopter UCAV on the basis of the Berkut VL ultra-light helicopter (http://www.aviationunion.org/news_second.php?new=101).

    The secound is the Russian purchase of an unnamed UAV from the UAE.

    From what I can gather, the two projects are unrelated (http://www.navaldrones.com/Berkut-VL-UCAV.html), but they do seem to involve the same UAE company - Adcom. I gather it's their only UAV company.

    Now, why would they buy UAVs from a UAE company like Adcom, and also agree to a joint-venture where the same company will use a Russian helicopter as the basis for a new attack drone? The company must be pretty advanced, right?
    Right. You see, the UAE doesn't exactly have much of a home-grown military-industrial complex, much less a high-tech scientific base and engineer graduates every year.
    But what they do have is money, and lots of it; which they're busy investing. A lot of foreign specialists too, and expats - the country is basically built on them. They also have access to Western technology, and Western expertise/specialists - and here we come to the crux of the matter.
    Russia initially tried to aquire advanced Western UAV technology via Israel - but only got the stuff that's a generation behind. Now I suspect it's trying to slip around Western unwillingness on tech-transfer - by co-operating with a UAE company which perhaps does have access to such resources.
    medo
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    Post  medo Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:03 pm

    Nice to see this new big twin engine UAV Altius. I hope it will be able to carry armament on hardpoints like Vikhr ATGMs or smaller laser guided bombs and rockets. With two engines it is strong enough.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:29 pm

    medo wrote:Nice to see this new big twin engine UAV Altius. I hope it will be able to carry armament on hardpoints like Vikhr ATGMs or smaller laser guided bombs and rockets. With two engines it is strong enough.

    Yup yup ^^

    With a selection between:
    Vikhrs as the general-purpose missile for most tasks
    Hermes-As for targets at longer ranges
    And perhaps S-25L/S-25LDs laser-guided rockets for cheap and cheerful fun at short-ranges where a good amount of explosive is needed.
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:09 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Possibly Al'tius-M.

    The AFAR compartment is labelled.

    What does "БО" stand for?

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 9 IAnC5uZ

    It's apparently called Al'tair.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:44 pm

    Bokovoi Obzor?

    Side view? Just guessing.
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:10 am

    TR1 wrote:Bokovoi Obzor?

    Side view? Just guessing.

    Thanks.
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    Post  Flanky Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:48 pm

    Well now only to start produce it quickly and reach initial operational capability very soon.
    They need feed back to the industry all the experience they gain from actual missions of the vehicle.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:05 am

    Yup yup ^^

    With a selection between:
    Vikhrs as the general-purpose missile for most tasks
    Hermes-As for targets at longer ranges
    And perhaps S-25L/S-25LDs laser-guided rockets for cheap and cheerful fun at short-ranges where a good amount of explosive is needed.

    If its mission is high to medium altitude flight over very long range I would think light guided bombs carried internally would be the ideal payload.

    Some sat and laser guided FAB-50 bombs would be ideal for high precision strikes. Quite a few could be carried internally with no addition to drag.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:04 am

    Soldiers and UAVs operators fighting forest fires:

    George1
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    Post  George1 Fri May 30, 2014 9:34 am

    Russia May Begin Constructing Advanced Military Drones in 2014 – Defense Ministry

    KAZAN, May 29 (RIA Novosti) – Russia may begin to develop advanced unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UAV) with longer flight endurance in 2014, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov told reporters Thursday.

    "We are ready to consider starting a development work this year with plans to complete it and move on to the official tests or experimental military use of future devices in 2017," Borisov said.

    The project is being developed by the Ministry of Defense together with the Kazan-based Sokol company, recently renamed after prominent Russian aircraft designer Mikhail Simonov. The deputy minister noted that the company had listened to critical comments, and in the past year and a half the program was revised and positive changes are already noticeable.

    "I am convinced that all of the components for the future project and the results of the research work, which is almost finished, may allow us to start the development with minimal risk. We have already decided that we will start our work this year," Borisov stated.

    The deputy defense minister stressed that reconnaissance and assault drones are in high demand today, and that the Russian Ministry of Defense pays special attention to this area.

    In the future, UAVs will be able to solve strategic military problems due to their stealth and greater combat stability compared to manned aircraft, Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force Lt. Gen. Viktor Bondarev said.

    The Russian Defense Ministry said on May 20 that it would spend some $9.2 billion on UAVs in the period to 2020, and that defense experts would train the country’s soldiers to operate those drones.

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